I still believe in EJ Manuel

[first_and_ten]

I just want to point out to people that perhaps they should move back from the ledge about Manuel. Who knows how good/bad he ends up but QBs have bad games all the time.

 

Carolina put up 10 points and Newton wasn't good. 50% for 160 something yards. They won...thanks to the D.

The Niners put up 9 points and Kaepernick was brutal. 50% passing for less than 100 yards. He's looked bad plenty this season.

Luck, lots of passing yards but 3 INTs and his team put up 8 points (and this was at home.)

 

Imagine that, young QBs are inconsistent and sometimes have horrendous games. I'm not sold on Manuel but I'm willing to give the kid a chance.

 

They have no choice but to give him a chance. They drafted him 16th overall.To go with an undrafted kid or a practice squad player would be an admission that they screwed up, big time. I just hope that they are willing to consider drafting another quarterback first in the next draft if Manueal doesn't turn it around this year and not be too stubborn to admit they might have made a mistake

Edited November 11, 2013 by first_and_ten

[KikO M G]

I'm sorry I thought this was the NFL. Rusty? Just not an acceptable excuse, I'm sorry. He's been practicing for two weeks. He played worse than either Tuel or Thad did in their first games, when they were seeing their first live action, and neither of them were drafted.

 

EJ spends too much time tweeting about his college football team. Where is his head? Is he even focused on being a winning QB for the Bills? It certainly seemed like it at the beginning of the year, but now we all should be questioning whether he has the right mental makeup to go with all the question marks we already knew about his physical skill set.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Right Manuel for the Job

[Campy]

There's no bigger EJ fan than me - I met him when he was in 9th grade and he said if was lucky enough to get to the NFL he hoped to play for his Godfather's team, the Bills.

 

But he looked every bit a rookie yesterday. Wind, lack of a running game, etc, are all valid points, but can anybody really say he looked anything other than unsettled, impatient, inaccurate, and totally befuddled?

 

It was a bad showing all the way around. I believe he will get better, but that was a rough out for him.

[PolishDave]

I doubt they draft another QB high unless EJ continues to truly suck the rest of the year. If he really sucks the rest of the year, they will be more likely to draft another one early.

 

If he doesn't totally suck and is just mediocre then I suspect they will try to find a veteran from another team to come in and compete for starting QB position again just like they tried to do with Kolb this year.

 

Then whichever QB wins the job will play whether it is that new veteran guy, EJ, Thad or Tuel.

 

I would be really interested to see how things are going in practice. Did EJ look better than Lewis and Tuel this week in practice or not? It is hard to believe that he did after watching that debacle of a football game.

 

Are they starting him just because the fans expect him to start? Did starting him really give the Bills the best chance to win? If it did, then yikes! Wish I could get a good feel for what is happening in practice.

[Big Gun]

I'm sorry I thought this was the NFL. Rusty? Just not an acceptable excuse, I'm sorry. He's been practicing for two weeks. He played worse than either Tuel or Thad did in their first games, when they were seeing their first live action, and neither of them were drafted.

 

 

That says alot IMO. Lots of excuses being made, that EJ hasn't played in a long time. So what, Tuel or Thad had not played at all and were better than EJ, or were given the amount of 1st team reps that EJ got.

 

This game made me a lot more concerned about EJ's future or lack there of.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Play him (EJ Manuel) every second the next 6 games. Now is his chance.

 

Either way, I'm planning on drafting a QB in the first 3 rounds next year and having a competition along with Thad Lewis. Tuel can go whine with Ryan Leaf in some dank pit. If John Football is there at pick ~10, he's my guy.

 

I agree - play Manuel, see if he progresses. Unless he starts showing a lot more than he's shown so far, put a QB high on the draft priorities.

 

Manziel isn't going to translate well to the NFL in my humble opinion. He's an unbelievable college playmaker, but short, maybe 4.55-ish speed, average arm strength, limited pocket presence.... LSU game anyone? How many of their D were drafted? 6 or 7? Keep him in the pocket with the speed of NFL defenses and he's fair to middling.

 

As has been mentioned 100x EJ has such horrendous footwork it makes me cringe. He's had a couple strong moments. I can't close the book quite yet myself but im getting there.

 

Agreed on both points. I think Manziel doesn't have the head and the work ethic to translate himself to the NFL.

 

I doubt they draft another QB high unless EJ continues to truly suck the rest of the year. If he really sucks the rest of the year, they will be more likely to draft another one early.

 

If he doesn't totally suck and is just mediocre then I suspect they will try to find a veteran from another team to come in and compete for starting QB position again just like they tried to do with Kolb this year.

 

Then whichever QB wins the job will play whether it is that new veteran guy, EJ, Thad or Tuel.

 

The problem with this strategy is that there simply aren't that many quality veteran QB. Who do you suggest we trade for/try to sign as a FA?

 

Frankly, we'd be better off going with a talented rookie to compete. The fact that a multi-year UDFA has shown well enough relative to EJ that he has people suggesting he compete with EJ next year is a giant red flag. Enough with the bargain-bin QB stuff.

[eball]

Including preseason, EJ has played roughly six football games against NFL competition. For a significant portion of time, he's been unable to practice.

 

Yesterday's game was absolutely awful to watch, and EJ did not look good -- but to draw any conclusions regarding whether or not he can be the Bills' franchise QB after this ridiculously small sample of work is ludicrous.

 

And that's all I have to say about that.

[alias]

All I will say is that if EJ Manuel was signed as an undrafted free agent and not a 1st round pick we'd all be calling for Lewis to play.

Without a doubt.

[alias]

I was thinking today that he has the intangibles, but maybe not the tangibles.

 

Bingo!

[NishP]

I'd never turn off a bills game, I don't give a !@#$ how much we are losing by lol

[SmokinES3]

EJ needs a good QB coach full time, not the OC like now.

 

Exactly... Why this didn't happen in the first place and still hasn't up to this point I have no idea.

[zow2]

I'm fine with giving EJ the final 6 games. Hopefully he can stay healthy and take every snap. If he continues to look like a mediocre backup QB (which he does in my opinion), then the Bills have to seriously address this in the offseason...possibly draft another QB and make it a competition.

 

I am starting to see why Geno was looked at as a possible #1 overall pick last fall and EJ was not in the discussion. Geno sees the field and is a bit of a gunslinger. When he throws those intermediate and deep passes into coverage, he's actually fairly accurate. The Jets are living with his mistake and INT's but he's learning. I'd rather have that than a guy who can't throw downfield or who throws short passes with limited accuracy. That fade to Stevie was hideous. Too many of his sideline passes and fades give the receiver absolutely no chance.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Hackett's play calling stinks. Why would we then believe he is some great QB coach?

Personally i think Hackett is probably the single biggest issue with this team.

If Geno can get coached up why can't EJ? EJ has all the talent and is bright and a hard worker. To me that points to the coach not knowing how to coach the young man.

[GG]

Hackett's play calling stinks. Why would we then believe he is some great QB coach?

Personally i think Hackett is probably the single biggest issue with this team.

If Geno can get coached up why can't EJ? EJ has all the talent and is bright and a hard worker. To me that points to the coach not knowing how to coach the young man.

 

Is it the coach or is it the player? The playbook was more varied with Lewis in there and the team took bigger shots downfield. Whatever the reason is, the play calls are different with EJ under center. It's either they still have the training wheels on, or EJ is still too timid to force the plays that the other guys are willing to take. Either way, this season is a wash for EJ's development, and the last 6 weeks are to be used solely to determine whether Bills need to draft a QB with the first two picks in 2014.

[chris heff]

Including preseason, EJ has played roughly six football games against NFL competition. For a significant portion of time, he's been unable to practice.

 

Yesterday's game was absolutely awful to watch, and EJ did not look good -- but to draw any conclusions regarding whether or not he can be the Bills' franchise QB after this ridiculously small sample of work is ludicrous.

 

And that's all I have to say about that.

I agree, the over reaction on this site was however predictable.

[Acantha]

The bottom line is that just about everybody is over-reacting. It's one game. One game. If he had a spectacular game it'd still just be one game. Horrible games happen to everybody. What we need out of the QB position is consistent, good play and that only comes with reps. Despite everybody wanting know now, you just can't.

Speaking for myself, I don't think it's just one game. I have not been impressed with most of EJ's play. He's had some good throws and even good drives, but overall I do not think he has looked like a promising rookie QB, especially on that was drafted so high. Of course saying so earlier in the season would get someone run out of town, but yesterday was SO bad, it's hard to ignore.

 

I'll keep saying it, I am not in the camp that thinks rookies have to be playing to full potential right out of the gate, so I'm not saying that EJ is already a bust. But based on how bad he looks in certain areas, especially in the deep game, I am worried.

[Braedenstearns]

Are these all the people that Were complaining for like 2 weeks to play Manuel? I wouldn't be surprised if you people now want Thad.

[Big Gun]

Including preseason, EJ has played roughly six football games against NFL competition. For a significant portion of time, he's been unable to practice.

 

Yesterday's game was absolutely awful to watch, and EJ did not look good -- but to draw any conclusions regarding whether or not he can be the Bills' franchise QB after this ridiculously small sample of work is ludicrous.

 

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

...and how many games or 1st rep practice time did Thad or Tuel have? EJ should be leaps and bounds better even with a layoff due to injury and he was not even remotely close to being better than Tuel or Thad.

 

That should concern every Bills fan that 2 street undrafted FAs performed better than the 1st round rook with a whole lot less game or practice time experience. How can that not concern everyone? I believe Tuel or Thad would have given the Bills a better chance to win yesterday than did EJ. That screams utoh!

Edited November 11, 2013 by old school

[4BillsintheBurgh]

I told my wife during the pregame show (once I heard it was windy in Pittsburgh) that if EJ has a bad day throwing the football that the EJ lovers would be out there blaming the wind. Looks like that came true. Man that was an easy prediction. I bet half the people on this board made the same prediction.

 

I was at the game and from my seats I had the opportunity to see the wind in action. The first quarter throw to Stevie that was either a curl or in route started out right at him and moved to the right enough to where Stevie dove/streched just to get a piece of it. The bad news is it will be windy in Buffalo and he needs to be able to make that throw. I am concerned about EJ as well, because I am not sure how much you can learn to react under pressure which is the biggest issue I see with EJ. The footwork and technique breaks down and that seems to be something a qb cannot learn to overcome. I'm hopeful, but I agree that the rest of this year is his audition and he needs to make strides.

[chris heff]

Hackett's play calling stinks. Why would we then believe he is some great QB coach?

Personally i think Hackett is probably the single biggest issue with this team.

If Geno can get coached up why can't EJ? EJ has all the talent and is bright and a hard worker. To me that points to the coach not knowing how to coach the young man.

Marrone made a big mistake not bringing in an OC with NFL experience. Not only that but no QB coach is just dumb.

 

The play calling was awful and predictable.

[zow2]

Is it the coach or is it the player? The playbook was more varied with Lewis in there and the team took bigger shots downfield. Whatever the reason is, the play calls are different with EJ under center. It's either they still have the training wheels on, or EJ is still too timid to force the plays that the other guys are willing to take. Either way, this season is a wash for EJ's development, and the last 6 weeks are to be used solely to determine whether Bills need to draft a QB with the first two picks in 2014.

 

They have called shots downfield for EJ but he has all too often taken the checkdown for a variety of reasons. When they called downfield stuff for Thad and Tuel they just did as told. Some things that aren't EJ's fault are the line protection falling apart but overall i think the plays are called the same for all the QB's and EJ for whatever reason is being timid about throwing deep. I think he's too scared to make a mistake. Ever since that Carolina game, when Marrone said he can't have those ball security isses, EJ has been timid.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Marrone made a big mistake not bringing in an OC with NFL experience. Not only that but no QB coach is just dumb.

 

The play calling was awful and predictable.

exactly!

Marrone is guilty of thinking Hackett could succeed at this level.

Hackett is in over his head and it shows in play calling and EJ's developement.

Some people will claim injuries and blah blah blah...fact is with a decent OC and QB coach this team is a lot better.

IF Marrone keeps Hackett after this year, then we got the wrong HC too. Marrone must take the same approach with his coaches that he does players. If you are not cutting it, you are gone.

[PolishDave]

...and how many games or 1st rep practice time did Thad or Tuel have? EJ should be leaps and bounds better even with a layoff due to injury and he was not even remotely close to being better than Tuel or Thad.

 

That should concern every Bills fan that 2 street undrafted FAs rooks performed better than the 1st round rook with a whole lot less game or practice time experience. How can that not concern everyone? I believe Tuel would have given the Bills a better chance to win yesterday than did EJ. That screams utoh!

 

True dat!

 

If EJ is so talented then why does he look like he should be the 3rd stringer? He has been propped up to be the savior for this franchise. And plenty of fans on this forum and other forums have treated him like he is that savior.

 

So far all he has proven is that in is best game he is mediocre.

 

And why isn't his team rallying around him? He is not a leader at all in my opinion. He doesn't inspire his team mates. He does not make the people around him play better. He just isn't making the plays he should be making to inspire confidence in him at all. How can people honestly remain confident in him when he plays that game against that piece of crap Steeler defense?

 

Whatever confidence I had been building up for EJ just got ripped out of me and kicked out of me during that game.

[CodeMonkey]

There is little intangible that cannot be weighed or measured.....and I think EJ has it.....

 

And I think he bounces back next week.

I prefer tangibles, but that's just me.

Edited November 11, 2013 by CodeMonkey

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

 

They have called shots downfield for EJ but he has all too often taken the checkdown for a variety of reasons. When they called downfield stuff for Thad and Tuel they just did as told. Some things that aren't EJ's fault are the line protection falling apart but overall i think the plays are called the same for all the QB's and EJ for whatever reason is being timid about throwing deep. I think he's too scared to make a mistake. Ever since that Carolina game, when Marrone said he can't have those ball security isses, EJ has been timid.

 

This seems a big part of it. He's not out there just playing ball. His best throws were in gm 1 vs pats.

 

He's played tighter and tighter as the season has moved along.

 

He clearly misses woods who seem the best at getting open in that 10-20 yard range

[GG]

They have called shots downfield for EJ but he has all too often taken the checkdown for a variety of reasons. When they called downfield stuff for Thad and Tuel they just did as told. Some things that aren't EJ's fault are the line protection falling apart but overall i think the plays are called the same for all the QB's and EJ for whatever reason is being timid about throwing deep. I think he's too scared to make a mistake. Ever since that Carolina game, when Marrone said he can't have those ball security isses, EJ has been timid.

 

That seems to be the case, although I'm surprised they're giving him some latitudes to change up plays. I'm guessing they will reign that in as well after his "throw" to Stevie at the goal line. He may have been physically ready on Sunday, but he was not mentally ready. I still believe that they are intentionally dialing things back in the max protect to try to slow the game down for him. That's why I will bring out a broken record and say how important a slow footed, but always dependable WR like David Nelson would have been to this offense. Right now, there isn't a dependable safety valve that EJ can go to.

[alias]

I haven't made up my mind either. Your options are hope that he's the guy and wait or hope that he's the guy and act on grabbing someone you think may be as good or better. I'm strongly in the act camp.

I don't think I'm overreacting, especially because I've been saying this prior to yesterday's game. Teams don't worry about having 2 young stud WR's. They don't worry about having 2 young stud DT's, but god forbid you have 2 young stud QB. You'll stunt the development of one or both...I say BS. Competition is good everywhere.

 

Agreed. It would have been better for everyone involved if EJ had been pulled at halftime yesterday. If his delicate psyche would have been forever damaged, then so be it. He looks like he'd make one hell of a school teacher or stock broker.

 

I wrote in another post that I am at this point more concerned for the other 52 players, many of them in the peak years of their careers, who are watching another year swirl down the drain while we prop up a QB because he was taken in the first round.

 

I'm sick of massaging QB psyches and GM egos while the careers of Stevie Johnson, Kyle Williams, Fred Jackson, Eric Wood, Manny Lawson, etc. are put on hold for yet another year.

[CodeMonkey]

Agreed. It would have been better for everyone involved if EJ had been pulled at halftime yesterday. .

Marrone was asked that in the presser too and apparently it was never a consideration.

[mousetrap08]

Another 1st ruond bust.

[zow2]

Marrone was asked that in the presser too and apparently it was never a consideration.

 

Well at this point (3-7) they gotta let EJ either grow out of this level of mediocrity or let him fail. Give him the rest of the season, unleash him and see what he's got.

[Charles Romes]

 

Why not "Ya either got faith or ya got unbelief..."

[CodeMonkey]

Well at this point (3-7) they gotta let EJ either grow out of this level of mediocrity or let him fail. Give him the rest of the season, unleash him and see what he's got.

I agree.

[Wayne Cubed]

Agreed. It would have been better for everyone involved if EJ had been pulled at halftime yesterday. If his delicate psyche would have been forever damaged, then so be it. He looks like he'd make one hell of a school teacher or stock broker.

 

I wrote in another post that I am at this point more concerned for the other 52 players, many of them in the peak years of their careers, who are watching another year swirl down the drain while we prop up a QB because he was taken in the first round.

 

I'm sick of massaging QB psyches and GM egos while the careers of Stevie Johnson, Kyle Williams, Fred Jackson, Eric Wood, Manny Lawson, etc. are put on hold for yet another year.

 

 

How exactly do you come to that conclusion? Better for everyone involved? How the heck would putting Thad Lewis in the game be better for any of the veterans. He was just as bad in his 3 starts. What, because he threw a couple deep balls all of a sudden the Bills veterans would jump for joy?

 

This is the way it goes with rookie QB's. They struggle, but they need to find out what kind of player he is. I'm sure every Bills veteran knew there would be up's and down's.

[Luxy312]

The way I see it, we appear to have captain checkdown 2.0 at the helm. Except for the ONE play where Stevie was wide open, what did we see yesterday? I saw play after play of 2 and 3 yard passes to the third or fourth option. Take away that one play and what's left? 38 pass attempts for 132 yards. He barely glanced at the WR's down the field before simply dumping the ball off. Playing against one of the worst performing secondaries in the NFL, we took virtually no shots deep at all. Sure it was windy, but please tell my why Ben was still able to sling it around.

 

At the same time they only run Freddy 12 times and CJ 8 times? If it was so windy, how come these guys combined for just 20 attempts while EJ is throwing it almost 40 times? What was even worse for me is that they seemed to swap out backs every other running play. How is a guy supposed to generate any momentum running the ball if he's getting a carry every 3-5 minutes? This team is done for this year. I don't blame the defense at all. 4 sacks on the day and a ton of pressure on rape-less-burger. Byrd's pick was pretty darn good too. EJ thus far has been pretty average. I'll believe in him more when I see him make some plays.

[papazoid]

Wow, I'm not sure whether to applaud the optimism or cry over the false hope.

All I will say is that if EJ Manuel was signed as an undrafted free agent and not a 1st round pick we'd all be calling for Lewis to play.

 

this.

 

if Peyton Manning was the QB of this team, we would be 7-3 or better.

 

until you have a clear Franchise QB (top 10)you are just spinning your wheels.

 

EJ's upside looks like top 20, that ain't good enough.

[Gordio]

I say you draft a QB next year again in the first. If we only win one more game that should get us the 4th pick or so. With Clowney coming out, that should be good enough for us to get one of the top QB's. Let Manuel & the top pick battle it out in training camp to see who starts. Noway the way Manuel has played should he be handed the starting job next year. If it hurts his feelings too bad.

[Security]

Bills must take a QB next year within the first 3 rounds, and I like EJ Manual, but this still needs to happen.

[Puckman5]

It's funny the extremes from the bust crowd to the apologists. He could still be a great quarterback someday, we simply don't know right now. My issue is with management drafting him where he was drafted. This type of "we know something everyone else doesn't" mentality has kept this franchise in a state of mediocrity for years. You simply can't get cute with the draft.

[CodeMonkey]

I say you draft a QB next year again in the first. If we only win one more game that should get us the 4th pick or so. With Clowney coming out, that should be good enough for us to get one of the top QB's. Let Manuel & the top pick battle it out in training camp to see who starts. Noway the way Manuel has played should he be handed the starting job next year. If it hurts his feelings too bad.

Boy I don't know. Yesterdays performance by Manuel sucked in epic proportions to be sure. Lewis, and even Tuel played better than Manuel did yesterday. The only thing he did well was to get out of bounds or slide on his runs. But to say now that the Bills should take another QB with their first round pick when there are so many needs on the team? If Manuel sucks the rest of the season and shows no signs of getting better, I suppose that's a consideration. But to say it now seems very premature to me.

Edited November 11, 2013 by CodeMonkey

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

johnny QB---hard drinkin hard playin future QB of our buffalo bills

 

Gotta tank the rest of the season to make it happen, im on board now that it's pretty much over!