Manuel had another rough outing

[bowery4]

It's going to take longer than 2 weeks. CLE and CIN are both currently 2-2, with both losing games they were predicted to win and winning games they were predicted to lose. Those teams are just as large question marks as BUF, so the next 2 are not going to tell much in the short term.

We actually could go to 4-2 or 3-3 but I don't see us losing both those games. Really hope McGilmore and dare I say Byrd are back for Cincy.

Edited September 30, 2013 by bowery4

[mrags]

 

 

It's going to take longer than 2 weeks. CLE and CIN are both currently 2-2, with both losing games they were predicted to win and winning games they were predicted to lose. Those teams are just as large question marks as BUF, so the next 2 are not going to tell much in the short term.

even thought bothe the Browns and Bengals are far from Super Bowl contenders, they both show some progress. In the past, these are games the Bills lose. Why I say it depends in these 2 games. In 14 days will we be 2-4, 3-3, or 4-2. That's huge heading into the 2nd half of the season.

[Captain Hindsight]

Only stat that matters is the W

[Formerly Allan in MD]

not to rain on our parade, but it seems clear that Manuel is a work in progress who must progress significantly, for success going forward.

 

Yes, we won, but it was a 5 interception game that we barely won, and EJs stats look fairly horrendous.

 

If we had lost....

 

I think counting on 5 INTs is not a formula that will win us too many more games.

 

the Bills need to develop a killer instinct (the whole team needs what Kiko has!) and EJ needs to be a LOT better. Hopefully it is possible.

Never would have guessed that a rookie quarterback in his fourth game is a work in progress.

[Meark]

Seemed like two different players by half--all-Pro in the first half and rookie QB taking some lumps in the second half when Hackett's play calling went south. We all expected the second half guy this year, but the first half EJ is a big (and pleasant) surprise....

 

Urbik went down and they inserted a turnstyle in the beginning of the second half. Just like last week the Oline really suffers without Urbik. Time to grab a guard off someone's practice squad..

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

not to rain on our parade, but it seems clear that Manuel is a work in progress who must progress significantly, for success going forward.

 

Yes, we won, but it was a 5 interception game that we barely won, and EJs stats look fairly horrendous.

 

If we had lost....

 

I think counting on 5 INTs is not a formula that will win us too many more games.

 

the Bills need to develop a killer instinct (the whole team needs what Kiko has!) and EJ needs to be a LOT better. Hopefully it is possible.

they won. enjoy it. If you didn't think Edge was a work in progress you have made a bad assumption. Edited September 30, 2013 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[Chandler#81]

Really? Start a toxic thread then don't reply at all?

 

Pretty sure there's a rule about this.. (thumbing through TSW rule book..)

[MDH]

Man, I can't believe it. A rookie QB who has played 4 games has to improve? Shucks, I thought he was a finished product.

[nucci]

not to rain on our parade, but it seems clear that Manuel is a work in progress who must progress significantly, for success going forward.

 

Yes, we won, but it was a 5 interception game that we barely won, and EJs stats look fairly horrendous.

 

If we had lost....

 

I think counting on 5 INTs is not a formula that will win us too many more games.

 

the Bills need to develop a killer instinct (the whole team needs what Kiko has!) and EJ needs to be a LOT better. Hopefully it is possible.

Thanks. I thought he was an established 10 year veteran.

[GG]

But to put those ints in perspective, I don't believe Bills D has scored this year. That's something that the past QBs benefited from.

Edited September 30, 2013 by GG

[mrags]

 

 

Urbik went down and they inserted a turnstyle in the beginning of the second half. Just like last week the Oline really suffers without Urbik. Time to grab a guard off someone's practice squad..

Urbik came back in the field before the half was even over. Now if they changed him in and out thought the second half I couldn't tell you. But from my seat, I clearly watched him come back to the field in our last drive in the 2nd quarter and didnt notice if he was swapped out at all in the 2nd half. Replay of game file will tell.

 

He was without CJ and Freddy much of the 2nd half though. And even Stevie (not that he did anything anyway) was out for quite a few plays in the 2nd half. I specifically remember at least one drive (ended in a 3 and out) where our WRs were Hogan and Graham. No woods, no Stevie.

[NoSaint]

even thought bothe the Browns and Bengals are far from Super Bowl contenders, they both show some progress. In the past, these are games the Bills lose. Why I say it depends in these 2 games. In 14 days will we be 2-4, 3-3, or 4-2. That's huge heading into the 2nd half of the season.

 

I think the bengals are closer than many think. The browns are a big wildcard week to week much like we can be but the bengals are in the upper tier of the Afc, obviously a cut below Denver but still likely to win their division qbs a tough matchup in the playoffs IF dalton comes to play

[thebandit27]

I'll continue to opine that I expect games like yesterday's from EJ. He threw the ball well; the one obvious exception being the long-ball to Woody that he underthrew--I still think he needs to stop trying to place the ball and just rip it, but that's another topic altogether.

 

Seriously, the stats don't tell the story on this one...another poster covered it quite well, but factor in Stevie's batted-ball INT, Chandler's close call on the sideline, the over-turned Woods TD, Woods' near-catch over the middle, a penalty call-back on a long pass to Woods, Lee Smith failing to turn around for a ball, Lee Smith tripping over the 5-yard line, etc. As I said, the stats don't tell the story here.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Really? Start a toxic thread then don't reply at all?

 

Pretty sure there's a rule about this.. (thumbing through TSW rule book..)

 

It's probably in the section that discusses banishment from the board for acts of trollism and cowardice.

[C.Biscuit97]

Never would have guessed that a rookie quarterback in his fourth game is a work in progress.

 

[thurst44]

Stats are very misleading. EJ should have had a TD to Woods. He should have had a TD to Lee Smith which was a great play and pass (although I think IIRC that was the same drive so you can't say he would have two). He had that great pass to Chandler that was overturned. He had a great pass to Woods that was brought back.

Also, one of the INTs was a decent pass (if too hard for the distance) to Stevie (and talk about a crazy game -- perhaps his worst all-around as a pro...and his hustle completely saved the game at the end)

[mrags]

I'll continue to opine that I expect games like yesterday's from EJ. He threw the ball well; the one obvious exception being the long-ball to Woody that he underthrew--I still think he needs to stop trying to place the ball and just rip it, but that's another topic altogether.

 

Seriously, the stats don't tell the story on this one...another poster covered it quite well, but factor in Stevie's batted-ball INT, Chandler's close call on the sideline, the over-turned Woods TD, Woods' near-catch over the middle, a penalty call-back on a long pass to Woods, Lee Smith failing to turn around for a ball, Lee Smith tripping over the 5-yard line, etc. As I said, the stats don't tell the story here.

couldnt argue with anything here. Except the "rip it" part might be arguable. Remember how last week we all complained about his poorly thrown balls out of bounds? IMO, that was him "ripping it" but with defenders in his face all game. Just my observation.

 

But I do agree for the most part with the "rip it" statement. There was a play early in the game, he completed a pass near the middle of the field. I clearly watched Graham streak down the right side if the field and would have easily had a TD. Everyone in my area saw it. I wasn't the only one. People were claiming "check down". Obviously EJ didn't see it. He still made a nice play though.

[gobillsinytown]

Any rookie QB is a work in progress. The NFL game is too much to assimilate in one year. The rookie QB's who have succeeded in their first year had enough talent supporting them. A few "once in a generation" QB's have been able to take a team on their shoulders (ala Andrew Luck), but those are few and far between. EJ is a starting caliber QB, but won't really come into his own for at least a year, and hopefully won't get hurt or shell shocked.

It's a combination of good coaching, talent and sheer luck.

Let's hope the dice roll comes up seven!

[buffaloboyinATL]

I thought this was easily EJ's best game. The one int was all on Stevie. That pass hit him right in the hands. EJ's biggest enemy today was his WR's. Lee Smitg falling, Woods with a key drop or two/foot placement, Chandler missing his feet, and everything that Steve Johnson did.

 

The inverse is, I think today might have been SJ's worst game of his career.

I was planning on piling on Stevie today, until he recovered that fumble. Fr that, he gets a pass fom me.

[thebandit27]

couldnt argue with anything here. Except the "rip it" part might be arguable. Remember how last week we all complained about his poorly thrown balls out of bounds? IMO, that was him "ripping it" but with defenders in his face all game. Just my observation.

 

But I do agree for the most part with the "rip it" statement. There was a play early in the game, he completed a pass near the middle of the field. I clearly watched Graham streak down the right side if the field and would have easily had a TD. Everyone in my area saw it. I wasn't the only one. People were claiming "check down". Obviously EJ didn't see it. He still made a nice play though.

 

Also just my opinion: it looked to me like the sideline throws last week were him trying too hard to place the ball in a safe spot. The general rule of thumb for a QB is that a safe deep throw is over the top and outside, which minimizes the chance for a pick. When under duress and trying to make a deep throw, that's kind of what I'd expect to see.

 

I could easily be mistaken though...

[Beerball]

not to rain on our parade, but it seems clear that Manuel is a work in progress who must progress significantly, for success going forward.

 

Yes, we won, but it was a 5 interception game that we barely won, and EJs stats look fairly horrendous.

 

If we had lost....

 

I think counting on 5 INTs is not a formula that will win us too many more games.

 

the Bills need to develop a killer instinct (the whole team needs what Kiko has!) and EJ needs to be a LOT better. Hopefully it is possible.

Please use a more descriptive thread title in the future. I'm going to edit this so that people know what to expect when they decide whether they want to view this thread.

[DallasBillsFan1]

I think EJ will be fineI think EJ will be a fine QB. Glad to have him. As far as yesterday's game, 3rd down efficiency was 5 out of 18. Not good. Those 3 and outs or short lived drives kill me. Gosh, I'll take a frickin field goal or something. Lots of punts.

[Mango]

 

 

Weird... I can't believe you don't have an issue with EJ randomly dropping the ball on two separate occasions... That seems like an issue to me...

 

I didn't have as big of an issue with the second fumble. That ball was jarred loose from the fake handoff, and hitting choice in the gut. The first one was more than frustrating

[YoloinOhio]

Thanks. I thought he was an established 10 year veteran.

This. lol.

[Zac]

I agree that Manuel left too many plays on the field yesterday. That game could have been put away much sooner.

 

 

That isn't an indictment of his future. It's a critique of the Manuel of right now. I think people have trouble seperating these two things.

[RyanC883]

Stats are very misleading. EJ should have had a TD to Woods. He should have had a TD to Lee Smith which was a great play and pass (although I think IIRC that was the same drive so you can't say he would have two). He had that great pass to Chandler that was overturned. He had a great pass to Woods that was brought back.

 

Great post! Also, that official made an horrible call on the Woods TD. Moving the ball from one hand to the other demonstrates control. That ref is the worst in the NFL. He got the Chandler call right, and if Lee (legless) Smith doesn't trip that's 3 TD's for EJ.

 

I agree that Manuel left too many plays on the field yesterday. That game could have been put away much sooner.

 

 

That isn't an indictment of his future. It's a critique of the Manuel of right now. I think people have trouble seperating these two things.

 

I would agree. He is a rookie QB who plays like a rookie QB at times. But you can see that he has the potential and poise to become a great QB.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Also just my opinion: it looked to me like the sideline throws last week were him trying too hard to place the ball in a safe spot. The general rule of thumb for a QB is that a safe deep throw is over the top and outside, which minimizes the chance for a pick. When under duress and trying to make a deep throw, that's kind of what I'd expect to see.

 

I could easily be mistaken though...

 

thats been my take as well.

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

EJ Manuel defeats defending superbowl champs, has a bad game? No such thing!

[mattsox]

not to rain on our parade, but it seems clear that Manuel is a work in progress who must progress significantly, for success going forward.

 

Yes, we won, but it was a 5 interception game that we barely won, and EJs stats look fairly horrendous.

 

If we had lost....

 

I think counting on 5 INTs is not a formula that will win us too many more games.

 

the Bills need to develop a killer instinct (the whole team needs what Kiko has!) and EJ needs to be a LOT better. Hopefully it is possible.

 

Umm... where you expecting Joe Montana after 4 games????

[Dibs]

.....the one obvious exception being the long-ball to Woody that he underthrew.....

 

I'm pretty sure he couldn't step into that pass due to having a defender in his face, and that is why it got under thrown.

[thebandit27]

 

I'm pretty sure he couldn't step into that pass due to having a defender in his face, and that is why it got under thrown.

 

He did get hit on that play, so you could indeed be correct...I came away with the impression that he did have time to step into it before absorbing the hit...didn't see the replay though

[Puckman5]

He didn't look like Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but I think he looked fine for a rookie in his 4th NFL game. Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions In his rookie year. Let EJ make his mistakes and figure it out. Everyone knew he was somewhat raw, but he was drafted where he was for his upside. I think he's shown poise and potential beyond what I expected at this point.

[PromoTheRobot]

EJ's NFL career is now 4 games. This is what rookies look like. Stop expecting rookies to play like seasoned veterans. Give him a chance to learn the NFL game. Jim Kelly cost us game his rookie year too.

 

PTR

[xsoldier54]

not to rain on our parade, but it seems clear that Manuel is a work in progress who must progress significantly, for success going forward.

 

Yes, we won, but it was a 5 interception game that we barely won, and EJs stats look fairly horrendous.

 

If we had lost....

 

I think counting on 5 INTs is not a formula that will win us too many more games.

 

the Bills need to develop a killer instinct (the whole team needs what Kiko has!) and EJ needs to be a LOT better. Hopefully it is possible.

He is a rookie. He has played well enough to help the team get to 2-2 after four games. The other two games could have been won as well with a bit of luck. I for one expect him to experience some growing pains. So far though, I like what I see from him. I wasn't expecting perfection right out of the chute.

[TakeYouToTasker]

EJ's NFL career is now 4 games. This is what rookies look like. Stop expecting rookies to play like seasoned veterans. Give him a chance to learn the NFL game. Jim Kelly cost us game his rookie year too.

 

PTR

Kelly went 4-12 his rookie year.

[mousetrap08]

not to rain on our parade, but it seems clear that Manuel is a work in progress who must progress significantly, for success going forward.

 

Yes, we won, but it was a 5 interception game that we barely won, and EJs stats look fairly horrendous.

 

If we had lost....

 

I think counting on 5 INTs is not a formula that will win us too many more games.

 

the Bills need to develop a killer instinct (the whole team needs what Kiko has!) and EJ needs to be a LOT better. Hopefully it is possible.

Like Marv Levy always said the only good rookies are last years rookies. I know that there are exceptions so don't blast me for KIKO and others that are doing well this year but for the most part it is true and I think EJ. fits into that rule. It is not always about stats. It's also about if a player has heart to play the game.

[MDH]

I'm excited as hell about this team. If they can maintain just a .500 record through 8 games it'll be interesting to see what they can do in the second half of the season once they get players back on D, Manuel has more seasoning and both offense and defense are more comfortable with their new schemes. I'm not worried about Manuel in the least right now. If he is playing like this a few years from now, then I'll be worried.

Edited September 30, 2013 by MDH

[Meark]

Urbik came back in the field before the half was even over. Now if they changed him in and out thought the second half I couldn't tell you. But from my seat, I clearly watched him come back to the field in our last drive in the 2nd quarter and didnt notice if he was swapped out at all in the 2nd half. Replay of game file will tell.

 

He was without CJ and Freddy much of the 2nd half though. And even Stevie (not that he did anything anyway) was out for quite a few plays in the 2nd half. I specifically remember at least one drive (ended in a 3 and out) where our WRs were Hogan and Graham. No woods, no Stevie.

 

I don't remember seeing him come back in the game. I'll have to go back and watch the 2nd half.

[thebandit27]

I don't remember seeing him come back in the game. I'll have to go back and watch the 2nd half.

 

He came back onto the field prior to the end of the half, but I don't think he actually came back in the game until the second half kicked off.

[Offside Number 76]

Whose stat line is this, his first year with the Bills? Record 4-12, att/comp 285/480, 22 TD, 17 INT, 43 sacks, rating 83.3? (Hint, team was 1-3 in first four games, not 2-2).

 

Let's just take it easy; EJ may or may not become what we want and need, but it's way too early to tell. Let's enjoy watching him grow and learn.