Brady admits to throwing the ball away

[section122]

for all you there could have been a mix up on the route crowd.

 

http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34769713

 

Also interesting tidbit from the article, Belicheat wanted the Giants to have to use Manningham instead of Cruz or Nicks on the final drive...

[Max997]

there was no doubt he was throwing it away but i still think it was a bad call

 

how many times have we seen QBs throw the ball 20 rows into the seats out of the end zone under pressure with no flag

 

with the way routes are run depending on the defense these days there is always the chance of miscommunication which the ref will never be able to determine

[ACor58]

there was no doubt he was throwing it away but i still think it was a bad call

 

how many times have we seen QBs throw the ball 20 rows into the seats out of the end zone under pressure with no flag

 

 

Right but remember that this is the Super Bowl - and the highest rated refs are officiating the game. If that was one of the crappy crews that probably wouldn't have been called.

[Pirate Angel]

for all you there could have been a mix up on the route crowd.

 

http://eye-on-footba...475988/34769713

 

Also interesting tidbit from the article, Belicheat wanted the Giants to have to use Manningham instead of Cruz or Nicks on the final drive...

 

why wouldn't he? Cruz and Nicks are better than Manningham. You cant defend a perfectly thrown pass or an amazing catch.

[NoSaint]

there was no doubt he was throwing it away but i still think it was a bad call

 

how many times have we seen QBs throw the ball 20 rows into the seats out of the end zone under pressure with no flag

 

with the way routes are run depending on the defense these days there is always the chance of miscommunication which the ref will never be able to determine

 

If outside the pocket that's legal. If drilled at about 12 feet high - it's uncatchable but you can argue it was attempting to put it where only his wr could get it. This was lobbed about 30 yards from anyone's route

[NoSaint]

why wouldn't he? Cruz and Nicks are better than Manningham. You cant defend a perfectly thrown pass or an amazing catch.

Agreed - the right call doesn't always work out. You play the odds and none are 100%

[K-9]

there was no doubt he was throwing it away but i still think it was a bad call

 

how many times have we seen QBs throw the ball 20 rows into the seats out of the end zone under pressure with no flag

 

with the way routes are run depending on the defense these days there is always the chance of miscommunication which the ref will never be able to determine

 

I remember Kelly getting called for intentional grounding for doing exactly that against Miami (not sure when, exactly). He sat in the pocket, looked left and right, and fired through the EZ and into the stands.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Cash]

Apparently if you were at the stadium (or watching the coach's cam), it was very clear he was throwing it away. No WR within 30 yards, no one had ever been heading that way, etc. Good call by both the letter and spirit of the rule. And good job by Brady not being a total whiner for once.

[Max997]

If outside the pocket that's legal. If drilled at about 12 feet high - it's uncatchable but you can argue it was attempting to put it where only his wr could get it. This was lobbed about 30 yards from anyone's route

 

the point was what if one of the receivers was supposed to go deep but instead cut his route off across the middle bc of what he saw in the coverage but Brady thought he was still going deep

 

i dont think this was the case but how can the ref say without a doubt it wasnt

Edited February 9, 2012 by Max997

[JoeF]

Giselle still thinks Welker or Gronk should have been there to drop the ball on that play... "My husband avoids the rush to throw the ball and they can't even get to it to drop it and save him from looking bad. #$%^"

Edited February 9, 2012 by JoeF

[CardinalScotts]

He said as much during his press conference..."had to get rid of it Tuck was coming, it's a judgement call and he made it" ....I don't think he has ever said it was a bad call or wrong

[syhuang]

the point was what if one of the receivers was supposed to go deep but instead cut his route off across the middle bc of what he saw in the coverage but Brady thought he was still going deep

 

i dont think this was the case but how can the ref say without a doubt it wasnt

 

They don't have to, refs just need to call it according to rulebook. As long as the QB is not out of pocket and under pressure, and Refs think there is no realistic chance of completion, they can call it an intentional grounding.

 

intentional grounding

 

Intentional Grounding of Forward Pass

 

Intentional grounding of a forward pass is a foul: loss of down and 10 yards from previous spot if passer is in the field of play or loss of down at the spot of the foul if it occurs more than 10 yards behind the line or safety if passer is in his own end zone when ball is released.

 

Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.

 

Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

[Heels20X6]

the point was what if one of the receivers was supposed to go deep but instead cut his route off across the middle bc of what he saw in the coverage but Brady thought he was still going deep

 

i dont think this was the case but how can the ref say without a doubt it wasnt

 

So the ref made the correct call and you're questioning why he didn't decide to not make the call because there was a risk he could be wrong?

 

Um...yeah.

[Doc]

It was clearly grounding, and I said to my friends just after the play ended that it was (and should be a safety), half-jokingly because I never thought they'd call it against Tommy Boy. And when they did throw the flag, I was expecting a call against the Giants.

[DrDawkinstein]

the point was what if one of the receivers was supposed to go deep but instead cut his route off across the middle bc of what he saw in the coverage but Brady thought he was still going deep

 

i dont think this was the case but how can the ref say without a doubt it wasnt

 

You're making very little sense towards logic in this thread.

 

So you want the refs to do the wrong thing, because maybe something was supposed to happen that didnt?!?!?!

 

Even if a WR did run the wrong route, the events that actually happened in reality were grounding.

[PDaDdy]

there was no doubt he was throwing it away but i still think it was a bad call

 

how many times have we seen QBs throw the ball 20 rows into the seats out of the end zone under pressure with no flag

 

with the way routes are run depending on the defense these days there is always the chance of miscommunication which the ref will never be able to determine

 

You can do anything you want outside the tackles as long as the ball makes it past the line of scrimmage. Brady was inside the pocket albeit a collapsing one.

[Doc]

You're making very little sense towards logic in this thread.

 

So you want the refs to do the wrong thing, because maybe something was supposed to happen that didnt?!?!?!

 

Even if a WR did run the wrong route, the events that actually happened in reality were grounding.

Yep. It doesn't matter what the WR was supposed to do. If the QB is in the pocket, under duress, and throws the ball where no one is even remotely close to, it's grounding. And on that play, it wasn't even close. The closest receiver was still over 20 yards away from where the ball landed.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

what the rules say and how it's enforced ate 2 diffeerent things

 

Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. (too high)

 

Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

 

 

The refs reserve judgement based on if there was no receiver in the area. Again 10 feet too high or at their feet. its still towards a receiver.

[section122]

It was clearly grounding, and I said to my friends just after the play ended that it was (and should be a safety), half-jokingly because I never thought they'd call it against Tommy Boy. And when they did throw the flag, I was expecting a call against the Giants.

Me too... except I was more than a little bit animated. What can I say my hatred for the Pats* runs deep

[Doc]

what the rules say and how it's enforced ate 2 diffeerent things

 

Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. (too high)

 

Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

 

 

The refs reserve judgement based on if there was no receiver in the area. Again 10 feet too high or at their feet. its still towards a receiver.

Generally, they won't call IG is there is a receiver in the vicinity, regardless of how high or low a QB throws it. I assume the refs give some leeway since they figure it might just have been a bad pass.

[HuSeYiN1978]

I'm surprised they didn't invent the Pierre Paul rule on that play...

 

Also on a side note sometimes Fitz throws the ball so out of place of where the receiver is that should create a new penalty also...

[Buftex]

I'm surprised they didn't invent the Pierre Paul rule on that play...

 

Also on a side note sometimes Fitz throws the ball so out of place of where the receiver is that should create a new penalty also...

 

 

I think it was the right call, but I am surprised they made it...I have seen them relax the "intentional grounding" rule, particularly for guys the stature of Brady, many times over the years. If Brady admits he threw the ball away, I bet he probably thoght there was a good chance he would get away with it, because he has before.

[billzfan]

I remember Kelly getting called for intentional grounding for doing exactly that against Miami (not sure when, exactly). He sat in the pocket, looked left and right, and fired through the EZ and into the stands.

 

GO BILLS!!!

This is the first play that came to mind , when Brandy (whatever) got flagged. (I also don't remember the specifics), but it was when Kelley threw the ball over the heads of "everyone" and thru the back of the endzone..Jim was called with intentional grounging..I was so pi$$ed at that call(I still am, cuz it was in the endzone and one of our guys had to be within fricken a couple of yards of the direction of the ball)..the Bills got robbed on that play. To summerize.. Jimbo Thru the ball away and Brandy thru the ball away to avoid a sack/safety!!

[TheMadCap]

I remember Kelly getting called for intentional grounding for doing exactly that against Miami (not sure when, exactly). He sat in the pocket, looked left and right, and fired through the EZ and into the stands.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I thought that was the Saints game, the one where he came out at the end and asked the reporters if they thought the Bills could win this game at half time,

 

(points at each in turn) "you're a liar, you're a liar, and YOU'RE A LIAR"!!!!

[Just Jack]

I noticed this when they were showing the replays during the game, the best video I could find is here....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxV8mDocZzg

 

If you pause it at the 20 second mark, there are three Pats* between the 15 and 25 yd lines, towards the sideline. I think if he had thrown the ball in that direction, he may have not been flaged, even if it was over their heads.

[Jon in Pasadena]

I noticed this when they were showing the replays during the game, the best video I could find is here....

 

youtube.com/watch?v=pxV8mDocZzg

 

If you pause it at the 20 second mark, there are three Pats* between the 15 and 25 yd lines, towards the sideline. I think if he had thrown the ball in that direction, he may have not been flaged, even if it was over their heads.

I was thinking the same thing. Why not just chuck it out of bounds there, in the vicinity of a receiver?

[disco]

I remember Kelly getting called for intentional grounding for doing exactly that against Miami (not sure when, exactly). He sat in the pocket, looked left and right, and fired through the EZ and into the stands.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

October 14, 1996. Bills vs Dolphins. Buffalo down 14-7. 1 minute and change on the clock and the Bills work their way to the Dolphins' 2 yard line. One first down, Kelly can't find anyone open and under pressure throws a bullet through the back of the end zone. He's called for intentional grounding. Three plays later, they'd go for it on 4th down only to have it intercepted and returned for a TD. Bills lose 21-7.

 

That intentional grounding was perhaps even more startling because being at the 2 there were clearly Bills WRs in the vicinity. That being said, it was clear he was throwing the ball away. I'll never forget the play because prior to it I didn't realize that COULD be intentional grounding. I just assumed it only accounted for throwing the ball in the dirt - as that's generally the only time you see it called. When I saw Brady do it, I immediately yelled intentional grounding but am still surprised they made the call. No doubt it was the correct one.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/10/14/sports/dolphins-intercept-bills-final-chance.html

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

I remember Kelly getting called for intentional grounding for doing exactly that against Miami (not sure when, exactly). He sat in the pocket, looked left and right, and fired through the EZ and into the stands.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

1996... his first game back from an injury. He looked awful all game, but it was 14-7 late in the 4th when he hit Andre on a classic YAC play down inside the five. On first down, Kelly threw the ball away and got the penalty. Then two more incompletions, and on 4th down, Terrell Buckley snatched a pick-6.

 

It was the first time the Bills faced the Pig-Faced-Satan-coached Fins.

 

Yes, I remember too many things.

 

EDIT: disco beat me to it. I should have read to the end of the thread.

Edited February 10, 2012 by RJ (not THAT RJ)

[dollars 2 donuts]

there was no doubt he was throwing it away but i still think it was a bad call

 

how many times have we seen QBs throw the ball 20 rows into the seats out of the end zone under pressure with no flag

 

with the way routes are run depending on the defense these days there is always the chance of miscommunication which the ref will never be able to determine

 

 

 

...and in addition to No Saints response to your post above, miscommunication is the teams fault not the ref's responsibility.

[Talley56]

I'm baffled as to how anyone can say this was a bad call and that they never see this called. The only time I ever see a play like this not called intentional grounding is when they get out of the pocket and throw it away, which is the rule. But if he's in the pocket, under pressure, and throws to where there is no reciever in the area that is intentional grounding. Brady threw it way too far from anyone to even consider the possibility that it was just miscommunication on the route. It was blatant grounding.

[Matt in KC]

What has bothered me is the number of times I've seen QBs get out of the pocket and throw the ball away, but not as far as the line of scrimmage. In that circumstance I've often heard the announcers say it's not grounding because the QB was out of the pocket. You have to be out of the pocket AND get the ball back to the LOS!

[Dopey]

for all you there could have been a mix up on the route crowd.

 

http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34769713

 

Also interesting tidbit from the article, Belicheat wanted the Giants to have to use Manningham instead of Cruz or Nicks on the final drive...

I think Belichek was right to want them to use Manningham. That was one hell of a catch. He makes that catch 1 out of 10 times it's thrown like that. Cruz and Nicks were a nightmare to cover out there. It's pretty amazing with as bad as people say Brady played that if Brady and Welker connect on that pass, the Pats win the SB. No doubt.

[Doc]

I think Belichek was right to want them to use Manningham. That was one hell of a catch. He makes that catch 1 out of 10 times it's thrown like that. Cruz and Nicks were a nightmare to cover out there. It's pretty amazing with as bad as people say Brady played that if Brady and Welker connect on that pass, the Pats win the SB. No doubt.

This was pretty well-known. Every analyst I heard prior to the game said that the Pats would want to take Cruz and Nicks out and make Manningham beat them. Which he did.

[Fan in Chicago]

I was thinking the same thing. Why not just chuck it out of bounds there, in the vicinity of a receiver?

He had so little time and downfield view at that moment that instinctively he threw it away risking a safety than have it be a pick-6.

 

This was pretty well-known. Every analyst I heard prior to the game said that the Pats would want to take Cruz and Nicks out and make Manningham beat them. Which he did.

Seems to me that this was not the talented teams of yore that BB is used to coaching in Superbowls. Hence, he resorted to some gambles which did not quite work out. This was one of them. the other was easing up on the defense to let the Giants score on their last drive so as to allow almost a minute for Brady to score.

[section122]

I think Belichek was right to want them to use Manningham. That was one hell of a catch. He makes that catch 1 out of 10 times it's thrown like that. Cruz and Nicks were a nightmare to cover out there. It's pretty amazing with as bad as people say Brady played that if Brady and Welker connect on that pass, the Pats win the SB. No doubt.

I disagree about that Manningham catch. It was a PERFECT throw that hit him right in the hands. I also disagree that they automatically win if Welker catches that pass. The could have run clock but noone knows whether they would have kicked a fg or scored a td. If it was a fg then the Giants would have had time to drive for a td that would have won the game. As for how bad Brady played and them still having a shot - it wouldn't have been the worst game a qb played and won (Rothlesburger vs Seattle) but it definitely wasn't up to his normal standards. The pick and safety are two glaring mistakes but also the pass to Welker and Branch that were "drops" were both off target.

[first_and_ten]

there was no doubt he was throwing it away but i still think it was a bad call

 

how many times have we seen QBs throw the ball 20 rows into the seats out of the end zone under pressure with no flag

 

with the way routes are run depending on the defense these days there is always the chance of miscommunication which the ref will never be able to determine

I'm sorry but I haven't seen a Qb Throwing the ball 20 rows into the seats from the end zone when he's about to get sacked very often. It was the correct call.