Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Shades of Bills trading Evans because they were afraid of losing a talent like Marcus Easley or Donald Jones. Or letting Greer go because they wanted to develop McKelvin. Or trading McGahee because of the shiny bright object called Lynch. It goes on & on. This. The Bills are where they are because they manufacture holes in the roster unnecessarily. See: poszluzny, paul. See also: evans, lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Based off the soundbite I heard on WGR I think Fred is upset and I think he has a right to be....... I think the bills are trying to find ways to motivate CJ Spiller....but they are doing it at Fred expense which I am not sure is a smart move........ They have a good situation here where they have a good number 1 in Fred Jackson but his is also aging.....and a young through the roof potential talent in Spiller who hasn't done anything yet..... Start Jackson....sprinkle in CJ....and lets see how it plays out....but dont alienate Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Based off the soundbite I heard on WGR I think Fred is upset and I think he has a right to be....... I think the bills are trying to find ways to motivate CJ Spiller....but they are doing it at Fred expense which I am not sure is a smart move........ They have a good situation here where they have a good number 1 in Fred Jackson but his is also aging.....and a young through the roof potential talent in Spiller who hasn't done anything yet..... Start Jackson....sprinkle in CJ....and lets see how it plays out....but dont alienate Jackson I stated earlier in this thread that I just don't understand the drama over who is named the "starter". I really feel that they should both get about the same amount of carries over the year since they're both complimentary runners who can't handle the "full load" of a real full time NFL starter. To me, they should consider themselves as 1 and 1a starters and just support each other in that respect. CJ isn't a full time starter and neither is Jackson, so what exactly is this drama about???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bills-unhappyjackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bills-unhappyjackson Timely reporting, thanks jw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 http://sports.yahoo....-unhappyjackson One of my few complaints about Gailey so far is that he does not tell the players where they stand until it is a little too late. Evans and Levitre said something similar. I assume Gaiely has his reasons, he wants competition at all positions for all players, and he has no real obligation to tell them. They are getting paid very well to play the game as they are told by their coaches at 100% effort all the time. But I think it leads to some locker room issues that could be avoided. That's a fine line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm sure we'll trade Jackson soon for a 7th round pick. All in the name of the future. ... Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Chan says Fred is ahead of CJ and that they are both starters. Linky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbillsfan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'm sure we'll trade Jackson soon for a 7th round pick. All in the name of the future. ... Sigh. in 2013 while we are still looking to rebuilding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonechiller Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Fred doesn't get the respect he deserves. Make him the freakin starter and let CJ try to unseat him. (that wont happen) Why mess with his head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goynahan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 For the coaching staff to find a way to upset one of the biggest team-first players on our squad absolutely disgusts me. I am more upset about this development than I am the evans trade. It may be that with every incomprehensible decision I'm inching closer and closer to my tipping point, but after hearing about this development with spiller and fred I actually felt a sense of "I don't really care what happens with this team anymore". It's killing me that I feel that way when the season hasn't even begun yet, but the decision to start spiller (if that ends up being the case come regular season) is wrong on so many levels, some of which are: 1. There is no discussion as to who is the more productive of the two - Fred has been unbelievably consistent during his time here behind an ever-revolving offensive line. With every other back, we've always had to make some kind of excuse or justification (marshawn hesitates in the hole, spiller needs to work on his vision and isnt a between the tackles runner, etc). we have NEVER had to make an excuse for Fred, he just comes in and does his job, and does it damn well. 2. This reeks of a decision from above - CJ is getting paid, let's try and get our money's worth. 3. This can't sit well with the locker room - Fred is not only a fan favorite but an excellent locker room guy. How does this make the other vets feel when they see a guy bust his ass for years, outperform his competition, yet still get the shaft? If I was a guy in that locker room, I would certainly make me question what the hell is going on. As you can see from my post count, I do much more reading than posting. But like I said earlier in my post, as small a development as this may be individually, when you add it up with the other questionable decisions that have been made this offseason (no upgrade to o-line, evans trade come to mind), I have already begun to feel indifferent about what happens with this team anymore. and that is a crying shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Screw Spiller if he can't get his head in the game and play like an NFL back... keep Jackson the starter and trade Spiller to Cincinnati if he is going to keep being average with great talent. Edited August 23, 2011 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 One of my few complaints about Gailey so far is that he does not tell the players where they stand until it is a little too late. Evans and Levitre said something similar. I assume Gaiely has his reasons, he wants competition at all positions for all players, and he has no real obligation to tell them. They are getting paid very well to play the game as they are told by their coaches at 100% effort all the time. But I think it leads to some locker room issues that could be avoided. That's a fine line. Gailey runs the risk of losing the locker room if he continues. Players understand that they can be replaced at any time, but if they are not a weak link (they know who is producing and who is not) and are getting pulled or jerked around that does not help morale. While they get paid a lot of money, they are also human beings. If you expect leaders on your team, you need to treat them that way and let them take it to the next level. Not knock them down a peg whenever. I don't see why FJ didn't start and get the first series in and then CJ could have played into the third quarter to get plenty of touches. If CJ averages 8+ ypc and by all accounts plays well there is no doubt who should start. By fiddlin' around like this Chan alienates players. I wonder if something similar happened in Dallas, I thought I remember reading Aikman was upset about something. Maybe FJ isn't his type of player. Maybe the front office/owner is involved. Seems kind of odd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Spiller was a top ten pick you have to play him to get him the experience that Jackson already has. You know with Freddy you have one dependable back. Spiller needs playing time. You have to give it to him. You have to play McKelvin too let them work their errors out on the field and gain experience This team is going nowhere for a long time so develop the young guys. Nobody ever learned much by watching. You need the game to slow down for them, to do that they need to be on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Chan says Fred is ahead of CJ and that they are both starters. Linky So we have two No 1 RBs? Where have I seen that movie before and how did that one end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have to ask: do you think we can get a fifth for Freddie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have to ask: do you think we can get a fifth for Freddie? Why not? He obviously doesn't fit Gailey's new offense and we need to give more reps to White & Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Why not? He obviously doesn't fit Gailey's new offense and we need to give more reps to White & Hall. We'd save a few bucks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you don't like what you see, time to put your wallets away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you don't like what you see, time to put your wallets away. I actually think that if the Bills get off to a rough start, the attendance will be horrible this season. Not 1984-horrible, but worse than anything we've seen in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billnutinphoenix Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 We may be seeing the beginning of the end for Chan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Spiller was a top ten pick you have to play him to get him the experience that Jackson already has. You know with Freddy you have one dependable back. Spiller needs playing time. You have to give it to him. You have to play McKelvin too let them work their errors out on the field and gain experience This team is going nowhere for a long time so develop the young guys. Nobody ever learned much by watching. You need the game to slow down for them, to do that they need to be on the field. CJ can get experience by rotating in when Fred needs a breather. Top 10 pick or not, once the regular season starts you play the guy who gives you the best chance to win. Treating games like practice is the same thing as stealing from the fans. Edited August 23, 2011 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) 2. This reeks of a decision from above - CJ is getting paid, let's try and get our money's worth. This is spot on and few if any posters are addressing this. A strong case could be made that either Mr. Wilson or the useless schmuck Brandon was behind this idiotic draft selection from day 1. And make no mistake.....sooner or later, Spiller will make a long, breakaway run that will have fans drooling, and thinking that he was a good pick. Despite his total lack of production, one can clearly see how people continue to assert that he was a sound draft choice. He wasn't, and this notion will change. It always does. At this point, what we do have is a shrimp who cannot gain yards on the groud, is a so-so receiver, and cannot block for s*&t. And now he is causing dissension. What a freaking mess. Edited August 23, 2011 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hey John, who the Bills hottie to your right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 This is spot on and few if any posters are addressing this. A strong case could be made that either Mr. Wilson or the useless schmuck Brandon was behind this idiotic draft selection from day 1. And make no mistake.....sooner or later, Spiller will make a long, breakaway run that will have fans drooling, and thinking that he was a good pick. Despite his total lack of production, one can clearly see how people continue to assert that he was a sound draft choice. He wasn't, and this notion will change. It always does. At this point, what we do have is a shrimp who cannot gain yards on the groud, is a so-so receiver, and cannot block for s*&t. And now he is causing dissension. What a freaking mess. Bill, I think this was a Buddy-Chan pick all the way. Nix slavered over him, and looking at his past history, one can only think that he had LT and Thurman on his mind. Spiller is about the same size and had the same alleged traits -- good receiving skills and great elusiveness in the open field. I wouldn't be surprised if gailey tried to recruit him at GA Tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have to ask: do you think we can get a fifth for Freddie? With FJ's young, fresh legs, game-changing ability and breakaway speed, I'd guess that a number of teams would throw multiple #1 picks at the Bills in exhange for Jackson. After all, serviceable RBs are so hard to find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 With FJ's young, fresh legs, game-changing ability and breakaway speed, I'd guess that a number of teams would throw multiple #1 picks at the Bills in exhange for Jackson. After all, serviceable RBs are so hard to find! Actually, the FA RB market has been pretty well tapped. Anyone who needs a solid RB who thinks they have a shot at playoffs would likely give something of value for him. But I'd really hate to see him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I just read Freddy's full quote, and I believe he really was talking about the whole Bills front office and not just the coach, or the last game. He's not being treated like a #1 back because he's not being paid, and he's not thought of in line to have his contract renegotiated AND Spiller has been getting a lot of the looks. I can understand his frustration but I don't think it had as much to do with last Saturday and since last season ended. They drafted a RB, and didn't do anything to convince him he is the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 This is spot on and few if any posters are addressing this. A strong case could be made that either Mr. Wilson or the useless schmuck Brandon was behind this idiotic draft selection from day 1. And make no mistake.....sooner or later, Spiller will make a long, breakaway run that will have fans drooling, and thinking that he was a good pick. Despite his total lack of production, one can clearly see how people continue to assert that he was a sound draft choice. He wasn't, and this notion will change. It always does. At this point, what we do have is a shrimp who cannot gain yards on the groud, is a so-so receiver, and cannot block for s*&t. And now he is causing dissension. What a freaking mess. First of all, you know I agree with you that selecting a gadget/RB with such a high pick was the wrong thing to do with so many more glaring needs. But his selection and his recent 'promotion' are not CJ's fault. He may or may not have the commensurate talent but he is not the one making these decisions. Ergo, he is not the one causing the dissent (if there is any). I think this one is on the FO/coaches. This situation is not looking good - letting Poz walk followed by trading Evans has to cause some doubt in the locker room. if this action sticks despite CJ not performing, then it will really cause the players to question the ability of the coaches to select the starters. Ofcourse, if CJ plays up to his billing and lights it up then this is a moot point. Let us see how things play out but I am beginning to have doubts about the decisions being made the past 3-4 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I just read Freddy's full quote, and I believe he really was talking about the whole Bills front office and not just the coach, or the last game. He's not being treated like a #1 back because he's not being paid, and he's not thought of in line to have his contract renegotiated AND Spiller has been getting a lot of the looks. I can understand his frustration but I don't think it had as much to do with last Saturday and since last season ended. They drafted a RB, and didn't do anything to convince him he is the man. you post was spot on about Fred not being happy. Really watching what you post on this board now lol Going back to 2009 when Fewell became HC on the intern thing, one of the first things he did was to name Jackson the starter as he should have. Fewell was trying to put the best players on the field to try to get the HC job. Fast forward to Chan and Buddy. Even though Fred has earned the right to start and always produces, Buddy has drafted his running back of the future. It sucks but when you draft a player in the first round you got to play him. In my mind its a cold slap in the face to Jackson and I agree 100 percent that he has a legit beef. But the NFL is a cold frigging business. Buddy has no loyalty to Jackson because he was brought in by Marv, one of the few excellent players he did manage to get. Somebody (Chan) ought to tell Fred hey your our guy until CJ learns the ropes, then we are going to name him the starter. That is gonna happen like it our not. I for one don't like the way this smells because it is clear the Fred has not only earned the role of starter, he should keep it until he skills decline. Another fine mess the Bills are in, you don't want your best player outside of Kyle Williams mad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Take it easy guys. Chan is just rying to put together the best college team in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 We may be seeing the beginning of the end for Chan... Excuse me? I think I missed the beginning of the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 This is spot on and few if any posters are addressing this. A strong case could be made that either Mr. Wilson or the useless schmuck Brandon was behind this idiotic draft selection from day 1. And make no mistake.....sooner or later, Spiller will make a long, breakaway run that will have fans drooling, and thinking that he was a good pick. Despite his total lack of production, one can clearly see how people continue to assert that he was a sound draft choice. He wasn't, and this notion will change. It always does. At this point, what we do have is a shrimp who cannot gain yards on the groud, is a so-so receiver, and cannot block for s*&t. And now he is causing dissension. What a freaking mess. Bill, I really doubt it. Chan was pretty upfront before last years draft of having to have a scat-back...and Spiller has so far fitted that bill, except that the scat behind this OL has been pathetic. I don't think they were pressured by someone like Brandon...The whole draft has been so weak so far....your top 3 choices can't crack the starting line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Fred Jackson is the best player on offense. what he does behind this O-line is remarkable. Spiller is NOT a #1 RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have really not been impressed with Gailey's player management in this preseason or last. He just seems determined to play guys based on their size or perceived athleticism rather than their playmaking ability. Trent Edwards as the starting QB. Moats to ILB. Spiller over Jackson. Lynch over Jackson. Urbik over Hangartner. Rinehart over Levitre. Sadly you might be on to something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Do you think Gailey is getting pressure from above to start Spiller? If so he deserves what he gets. I'm sure the "waterbug" was his pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Screw Spiller if he can't get his head in the game and play like an NFL back... keep Jackson the starter and trade Spiller to Cincinnati if he is going to keep being average with great talent. Or do Freddy a favor and trade him to New England for a sixth or a seventh. Then watch what rushing totals Freddy would have, how many clutch game changing plays, how his versatility would be exploited to full advanhtage in the Pats system. Fred Jackson would become a household name in every NFL town, not just Blo, and BB, who loves Freddy because BB kinows football, would be doing cartwheels. I laugh when people say Fred is an average to below average NFL RB. As for CJ he has to date shown absolutely nothing. People get excited because he had a 14 yard run or whatever in his last game. Talk about scaping the botom of the barrel. Big Blue had an UDFA run 97 yards fromj scrimmage last night. Never saw CJ ever do anythying remotely similar, not once, not even close. I hope I am wrong but he is looking a lot like like a bust. Some players come into the league as UDFAs or low round picks and just get better and better - Kyle Williams, Tyson Clabo- some guys cokme in with a lot of fanfare but with their best days behind them, as in Clemson. Hope that I am wrong and that CJ does not fall into that category of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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