Bills interested in Deebo Samuel per Mike Giardi

[Warriorspikes51]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

Eh the Bills get dangled as bait in a lot of these trade discussions. But the trades we end up pulling off are never the ones we're rumored to be in on. Nobody had us trading for Diggs. Nobody has us trading up for Elam or Kincaid. We tried trading for Von Miller before the Rams did - nobody reported this until after fact.

 

I would wager the 49ers are dangling the Bills and/or Patriots as potential trade partners to incentivize the real trade partners to increase their offer. I could actually see the Pats making this move, it makes sense for them. Maybe the 49ers are putting it out there that their division rival with a slightly higher 2nd round pick is also in the conversation.

 

I would just be really surprised if us trying to trade for Deebo Samuel or any player leaked into the media because it's never happened.

So JJ then, cool! 

[Logic]

11 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Hahahahaha another self proclaimed cap expert on WGR telling everyone “definitively” the Bills can’t trade for Deebo or Aiyuk

 

 

They um...can't.

[nucci]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

I don't understand how NFL analysts, all of NFL twitter, and four pages worth of posts on this thread don't seem to be acknowledging the following:

The Bills CAN'T trade for Deebo. Literally cannot do it. 

The only way it would work is if San Fran said "we'll pay most of his salary this year", which...why would they do that?

Failing that unlikely scenario, the Bills' salary cap situation makes it literally impossible for them to trade for Samuel, Aiyuk, or Higgins right now. They can't afford it.

but it was on the internet...

[GoBills808]

Just now, Logic said:

They um...can't.

Like how they couldn't trade diggs right

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Like how they couldn't trade diggs right

Gotta have a short term memory to be an elite poster

[MasterStrategist]

16 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Hahahahaha another self proclaimed cap expert on WGR telling everyone “definitively” the Bills can’t trade for Deebo or Aiyuk

 

 

You seem to question the NFL cap rules, so providing this as education to all.

 

https://overthecap.com/collective-bargaining-agreement

 

Go to article 13 in the above.  Section 2 is plain and simple, and you can read other parts of the document for additional clarification on salary cap.

 

We have to be under the cap during the league year, which started March 13th

 

EDIT: as @Warriorspikes51 would like it, we'd trade for Deebo then have to immediately release him because we would then be over the cap.  Sounds like a great plan to give up a free 2nd rounder right?

 

Edited April 26 by MasterStrategist

[appoo]

I dunno if the NFL rules allow for this, but for the Bills to get Deebo or Aiyuk they'd have to get an extension in place prior to the trade so they don't break the cap when they take on their contract. 

 

Aiyuk is much more likely as his on his 5th year

Edited April 26 by appoo

[djp14150]

47 minutes ago, psuscott16 said:

I know there is always a way, but with what cap space?

The underlying issue — cap space 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Eh the Bills get dangled as bait in a lot of these trade discussions. But the trades we end up pulling off are never the ones we're rumored to be in on. Nobody had us trading for Diggs. Nobody has us trading up for Elam or Kincaid. We tried trading for Von Miller before the Rams did - nobody reported this until after fact.

 

I would wager the 49ers are dangling the Bills and/or Patriots as potential trade partners to incentivize the real trade partners to increase their offer. I could actually see the Pats making this move, it makes sense for them. Maybe the 49ers are putting it out there that their division rival with a slightly higher 2nd round pick is also in the conversation.

 

I would just be really surprised if us trying to trade for Deebo Samuel or any player leaked into the media because it's never happened.

NE has $57.3 million in cap space and the Diggs example shows that it’s not a bad idea to get your new franchise qb a quality vet receiver. But as I said elsewhere, they don’t have a left tackle, and that seems more pressing to me. Only slightly, though, because their receivers are of course terrible. 

[Logic]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Like how they couldn't trade diggs right

Nope. 

That was different.

That instance of saying "can't" was people overstating the unlikelihood of trading Diggs because of the dead cap it would create.

THIS instance of saying "can't" is because they LITERALLY CAN'T. Teams HAVE to be cap compliant at this point in the year. The Bills, by trading for any of the veteran receivers with high cap hits, would be over the cap. You can't negotiate with a player while he's on another team. A trade submitted to the league where the acquiring team would be put over the salary cap by the acquisition will be declined.

I'm not saying it's unlikely. I'm saying that NFL rules make it literally impossible. Significant difference.


 

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Gotta have a short term memory to be an elite poster

Or just an understanding of league rules.


 

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

I dunno if the NFL rules allow for this, but for the Bills to get Deebo or Aiyuk they'd have to get an extension in place prior to the trade so they don't break the cap when they take on their contract. 

 

Aiyuk is much more likely as his on his 5th year

NFL rules do NOT allow this.

Edited April 26 by Logic

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Maybe for one of the 4ths, certainly not for pick 33, Beane’s not stupid.

[Logic]

This thread is gonna go on for 11 more pages even though this trade would be literally impossible due to league salary cap rules, isn't it?

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

Nope. 

That was different.

That instance of saying "can't" was people overstating the unlikelihood of trading Diggs because of the dead cap it would create.

THIS instance of saying "can't" is because they LITERALLY CAN'T. Teams HAVE to be cap compliant at this point in the year. The Bills, by trading for any of the veteran receivers with high cap hits, would be over the cap. You can't negotiate with a player while he's on another team. A trade submitted to the league where the acquiring team would be put over the salary cap by the acquisition will be declined.

I'm not saying it's unlikely. I'm saying that NFL rules make it literally impossible. Significant difference.


 

Or just an understanding of league rules.


 

NFL rules do NOT allow this.

Are we allowed to restructure Josh again? 

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

They um...can't.

 

I think Deebo they technically could because he's on a normal contract, not the 5th year option, so the 49ers could theoretically (I think) agree to retain most or all of his salary. Nor sure on the particulars though. We have just over $3M in cap space right now and we need room to sign our draft picks so while maybe not technically impossible, it feels like a massively unlikely prospect.

 

Aiyuk on the other hand is literally impossible as far as I know. His 5th year option cap hit can't be retained. We would need to free up more cap space than we have the ability to just to put him on our roster even if only temporarily while we work out an extension.

[Matt_In_NH]

This makes no sense to me during a historic wr draft when you are right on cap.  Pick two tonight.  

[nedboy7]

Could we trade for him and then flip him for 13 5th rounders before it "hits the cap"?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

This thread is gonna go on for 11 more pages even though this trade would be literally impossible due to league salary cap rules, isn't it?

What rule are you referring to?

[MasterStrategist]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think Deebo they technically could because he's on a normal contract, not the 5th year option, so the 49ers could theoretically (I think) agree to retain most or all of his salary. Nor sure on the particulars though. We have just over $3M in cap space right now and we need room to sign our draft picks so while maybe not technically impossible, it feels like a massively unlikely prospect.

 

Aiyuk on the other hand is literally impossible as far as I know. His 5th year option cap hit can't be retained. We would need to free up more cap space than we have the ability to just to put him on our roster even if only temporarily while we work out an extension.

100% agree and getting the 49ers to convert Deebos $20m base salary ( or most of it) to bonus (then take on as dead cap in a trade), is likely costing more than a 2nd round pick.

 

Somehow shout this from the rooftops, or hope a reporter asks Beane this question.

 

@Warriorspikes51 might lose it tho

[Warriorspikes51]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Are we allowed to restructure Josh again? 

we’re not allowed to do anything per _____ expert TBD poster _______ 

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I think Deebo they technically could because he's on a normal contract, not the 5th year option, so the 49ers could theoretically (I think) agree to retain most or all of his salary. Nor sure on the particulars though. We have just over $3M in cap space right now and we need room to sign our draft picks so while maybe not technically impossible, it feels like a massively unlikely prospect.

 

Aiyuk on the other hand is literally impossible as far as I know. His 5th year option cap hit can't be retained. We would need to free up more cap space than we have the ability to just to put him on our roster even if only temporarily while we work out an extension.

 

I think Greg Thompsett showed where we can make it work for Aiyuk.  

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What rule are you referring to?

It was posted in this very thread, but since I'm guessing you won't scroll up to look at it:

All NFL teams must be salary cap compliant by March 13th.

It is now past March 13th.

The move would make the Bills, well....NOT cap compliant.

Ergo, it would not be possible for the Bills to trade for a WR who's salary exceeds Buffalo's available salary cap space.

 

[Roundybout]

 

Thank god. 

[Blackbeard]

Deebo is a powerhouse.  Would be thrilled picking him up.

 

He's a beast!!  And versatile.  And seems to break tackles frequently and great YAC.

Edited April 26 by Blackbeard

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

we’re not allowed to do anything per _____ expert TBD poster _______ 

The exact mechanism by which it is literally not possible for the Bills to trade for a WR whose salary cap number exceeds Buffalo's available cap space has been explained several times in this thread. You can flippantly dismiss the reality of the situation by jokingly referring those doing the explaining as "self proclaimed experts" all you want, but you can't change the reality of NFL salary cap rules. 

[thenorthremembers]

Just now, Roundybout said:

 

Thank god. 

Unless they traded and resigned one of those players.   If they add years to the contract they can then backload it.  

 

I dont want Deebo but its not impossible. 

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, Roundybout said:

 

Thank god. 

 

There are ALWAYS ways to get around the cap if you truly want a player.

 

It has been done before and it will be done again.

 

If Beane wants one of those guys and they can work on trade, it will be done. But who knows. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Roundybout said:

 

Thank god. 

so nearly impossible=completely impossible 

 

That's courtesy of @Logic😂😂

[Logic]

Just now, Roundybout said:

 

Thank god. 

@Warriorspikes51 @GoBills808 So do we want to keep doing this for a while longer, or?

And before anyone points out the "nearly" part in that post: It refers to the (incredibly unlikely) possibility of the team we're trading with agreeing to pay the player's salary this year. For various reasons, that's simply not gonna happen.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

The exact mechanism by which it is literally not possible for the Bills to trade for a WR whose salary cap number exceeds Buffalo's available cap space has been explained several times in this thread. You can flippantly dismiss the reality of the situation by jokingly referring those doing the explaining as "self proclaimed experts" all you want, but you can't change the reality of NFL salary cap rules. 

 

Tangentially related to Deebo, as he's a different circumstance, but Greg Tompsett does think we have levers to pull (we'd have to pull a lot of them) but could get to where we need for Aiyuk without messing with Von's contract.  Involves a bunch of restructures, including restructures of brand new contracts for Dawkins and Johnson. 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Unless they traded and resigned one of those players.   If they add years to the contract they can then backload it.  

 

I dont want Deebo but its not impossible. 

No. You cannot legally negotiate a new contract with a player until he is on your roster. You can not legally add him to your roster if doing so puts you over the cap for even a moment. There is no "hey, give us the day to work out a new deal with him once he's on our roster". That's not a thing. 

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

Deebo is a powerhouse.  Would be thrilled picking him up.

 

He's a beast!!  And versatile.  And seems to break tackles frequently and great YAC.

he’s only broken 900 yards once and has never played a full season. NOPE!!!

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

@Warriorspikes51 @GoBills808 So do we want to keep doing this for a while longer, or?

And before anyone points out the "nearly" part in that post: It refers to the (incredibly unlikely) possibility of the team we're trading with agreeing to pay the player's salary this year. For various reasons, that's simply not gonna happen.

“There’s no way we’re paying an extra $3M to have Diggs play elsewhere” energy

[GoBills808]

Just now, FireChans said:

“There’s no way we’re paying an extra $3M to have Diggs play elsewhere” energy

I'm at work go find the quotes plz

[Logic]

1 minute ago, njbuff said:

 

There are ALWAYS ways to get around the cap if you truly want a player.

 

It has been done before and it will be done again.

 

If Beane wants one of those guys and they can work on trade, it will be done. But who knows. 

Sure. In this instance, there is one -- and only one -- way. The team trading the player to us would have to agree to pay that player's salary, or at least enough of it to make the player's cap hit for the Bills less than their available salary cap space.

The 49ers are ALSO quite tight to the cap, with just over $6 million. Anyone think they want get super creative about finding a way to use all of their remaining cap space and hamstringing themselves to the point that they can't afford to sign their draft picks just to pay the salary of a traded-away player to help the Bills out, all in exchange for a 2nd round pick?
 

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

I would not like this! 

I agree, honestly I think 49ers using us for more leverage for a trade with New England.

[DJB]

Hahah it takes a tweet from Field Yates for everyone to relax about trading for a high priced WR? 
 

I’ve been saying it non stop since the Diggs deal . It isn’t happening 

[MasterStrategist]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

I think Greg Thompsett showed where we can make it work for Aiyuk.  

Unfortunately since they executed the 5th year option, they are not allowed to convert his salary to bonus.

 

Although, it is technically possible the 49ers extend him and put low cap hit on 2024, but they'd be eating a lot of $$$s if he was immediately traded.

 

So Greg is correct that it's possible, but with some extreme/unlikely caveats

[appoo]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Unless they traded and resigned one of those players.   If they add years to the contract they can then backload it.  

 

I dont want Deebo but its not impossible. 

I do believe the Bills would have to trade someone, though honestly because of Dead Cap and bonus money paid I'm not even sure that would work to find 15M of cap space

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

“There’s no way we’re paying an extra $3M to have Diggs play elsewhere” energy

Riddle me this: How are the 49ers -- themselves just $6million under the salary cap -- going to eat the amount of Deebo or Aiyuk's cap hit it would take to make this trade possible? Please, by all means, explain it to me.



 

 

[Draconator]

My head hurts.