Draconator Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Are you allowed to be a Bills fan if you don’t believe your QB is the GOAT? Did we all have to believe Trent would’ve been Brady with better coaching to be Bills fans? You can leave too. This is a Bills board. If you don't like the Bills, you have no business being here. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 48 minutes ago, Sweats said: Honestly, as much as JA will win us games, he will also lose some due to his sporadic undisciplined improv playing style. I mean, it's fun to watch as fans, but it just has to be a nightmare for the team sometimes. especially in the playoff and other big games when this stuff happens all the time. I mean it would be one thing if it happened is like week1 or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: To think circumstances and situations don't play huge roles in NFL players careers is ridiculous Patrick mahomes got to learn from the best quarterback whisperer of the last 30 years... Then got to sit for a year behind a pro bowl quarterback Both 100% will benefit any professional quarterback Josh Allen got thrown into the fire with a mediocre offensive line and mediocre weapons... He was forced to sink or swim... Which has destroyed plenty of players careers Patrick mahomes absolutely needed his 1-year on the bench, which certainly helped his vault into the upper echelon of quarterbacks Football is literally all about situations.. where you go ,what coach you get... To think he'd be the same if he wound up on the cardinals or something It takes two to tango it's always has is always will... Tom Brady getting the greatest defensive Mastermind in NFL history absolutely was crucial to the first decade of his career Sure he maybe didn't need bill when he was 38.. he did when he was 24 Tyreek Hill called mahomes trash as a rookie lol sure he probably was over exaggerating... But he was speaking from what he was watching in practice He wasn't ready That's like saying Jordan poyer and Micah Hyde would have turned into all pros anywhere... No they're good football players who owe their accolades to Sean McDermott and putting them in the right spot Very few people like Bruce Smith or Myles Garrett can be successful everywhere There’s no proof that Mahomes needed the year off or would have failed if thrown into the fire. Josh Allen wasn’t perfect mechanically when he came into the league, and he was clearly coached and developed. They were both rough around the edges QB’s who were BOTH developed to become the QB’s they are today. Not sure why we believe the Bills coaches couldn’t have developed Mahomes when they proved they could develop Allen. 2 minutes ago, Draconator said: You can leave too. This is a Bills board. If you don't like the Bills, you have no business being here. I LOVE the Bills. Don’t think they have the greatest QB of all time. Sue me lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 38 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: Josh is missing two things Mahomes has its patience and accuracy. Mahomes would've no doubt taken that underneath pass to Diggs on 2nd and 9. Mahomes started looking like Brady in these playoffs as he took everything the defense was giving him and that's scary thing to see. Coming out of college Mahomes was the best QB I ever scouted and there's no doubt in my mind he would be the same superstar whether he played for the Bills or basically any other team. It's not like Mahomes is perfect. He had an open TD to Rice at the end of regulation in the SB but he tunnel visioned on Kelce instead. He had a pretty bad SB until the 4th Q, including an awful INT. The big difference is that Mahomes kicker did his job and KC's def did their job to give Mahomes more chances to win the game. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Still with this? Even under the guise of an original thought....woof 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: I LOVE the Bills. Your body of work suggests otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I do think Mahomes is the better QB but he has 2 other advantages in his favor. Reid is a better HC then McDermott. Also, the Chiefs defense plays well in the playoffs. To many times the Bills defense doesn't. Like all the playoff games vs the Chiefs and the Bengals game. Even the WC win over the Dolphins that scrub QB they had was moving the ball against them in the 2nd half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Draconator said: Your body of work suggests otherwise. I can love the team AND try to be honest with them. I also don’t think that Ed Oliver is the best DT in football. I don’t think Stefon Diggs is the greatest WR of all time. I don’t think that Jordan Poyer is the greatest safety in the NFL. Somehow, all of those opinions are fine. But believing that Josh is (only) the second best QB in football is sacrilege. Says more about you than it does about me lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: I can love the team AND try to be honest with them. I also don’t think that Ed Oliver is the best DT in football. I don’t think Stefon Diggs is the greatest WR of all time. I don’t think that Jordan Poyer is the greatest safety in the NFL. Somehow, all of those opinions are fine. But believing that Josh is (only) the second best QB in football is sacrilege. Says more about you than it does about me lol. So you've read each one of my posts. Cool bro. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donuts and Doritos Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Don't know if it would've changed the outcome. But I know, I'd have liked Josh Allen a whole lot less & Patrick Mahomes a whole lot more. Bc as Jerry Seinfeld said, being a fan is about cheering for the clothes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Just now, Draconator said: So you've read each one of my posts. Cool bro. You should be more active in your police work. There’s someone in Batavia that is begrudgingly admitting that Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time. Go get him! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 What if our touchdowns scored 8 points while KC's scored 5? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 3 minutes ago, Gregg said: I do think Mahomes is the better QB but he has 2 other advantages in his favor. Reid is a better HC than is McDermott. Also, the Chiefs defense plays well in the playoffs. To many times the Bills defense doesn't. Like all the playoff games vs the Chiefs and the Bengals game. Even the WC win over the Dolphins that scrub QB they had was moving the ball against them in the 2nd half. Mia didn’t do anything in that game until Allen started turning the ball over taking unnecessary risks. Defense was shutting them down. That game should have been coasting to a win after the big lead early. That’s one of the differences between them two as QBs. Mahomes don’t make those mistakes in the playoffs. KC got up on Balt early and Mahomes cruised control it to the end. Didn’t forced unnecessary throws and let the defense worked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Look it’s been said in this thread and needs to be said again the difference in these two organizations is one Andy Reid. When you start your career with the best offensive mind this league has seen since Bill Walsh that’s a heck of way to start your career. Josh started with Rick Dennison and Brian Daboll while the front office was defense first, second, and third. Josh’s greatness can never really be measured cause so much is expected of him but quite frankly he’s the best player in this franchises history and if he was with the Chiefs he’d be the best player in their history. Patrick would be terrific here as well but the difference is Andy Reid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 11 minutes ago, 90sBills said: Mia didn’t do anything in that game until Allen started turning the ball over taking unnecessary risks. Defense was shutting them down. That game should have been coasting to a win after the big lead early. That’s one of the differences between them two as QBs. Mahomes don’t make those mistakes in the playoffs. KC got up on Balt early and Mahomes cruised control it to the end. Didn’t forced unnecessary throws and let the defense worked. In the beginning it looked like a Bills blowout and Allen's turnovers didn't help. If I remember correctly in the 2nd half the Dolphins were moving the ball successfully and the Bills hung on for the win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Allen would already have 7 rings and the ufc light heavyweight belt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 38 minutes ago, FireChans said: There’s no proof that Mahomes needed the year off or would have failed if thrown into the fire. Josh Allen wasn’t perfect mechanically when he came into the league, and he was clearly coached and developed. They were both rough around the edges QB’s who were BOTH developed to become the QB’s they are today. Not sure why we believe the Bills coaches couldn’t have developed Mahomes when they proved they could develop Allen. I LOVE the Bills. Don’t think they have the greatest QB of all time. Sue me lol Over a hundred years in the NFL there are always outliers I never said mahomes is guaranteed to fail if he was thrown to the fire... I said there is not a quarterback alive who has never benefited from sitting behind a good quarterback Even Tom Brady sat behind Drew bledsoe and it immensely helped his game Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Brett favre immensely helped his game Josh Allen would be better if he got to sit behind an entrenched starter for a season... You get to work on things that you could completely refine without getting thrown to the wolves... When you get thrown to the wolves it's sink or swim Josh swam.. but he still has some little quirks as a quarterback that could have been ironed out if he got to sit behind somebody for a year... Under fire those quirks come out... But not getting thrown to the fire could have them corrected I've been to elite 11 quarterback camps, under armor All-American games, and some of the best quarterback camps in the country over 20 years I understand how quarterbacks think and get developed.. and it takes a team And the situation you are thrown into is a major factor... The bills might not have Andy Reid... But Allen had a plethora of knowledge around him A calming head coach in McDermott... A personal quarterback coach in Palmer... David culley was a division 1 quarterback...Daboll has been around some of the best coaches in the world...Ken Dorsey was a division one quarterback(even if not a great OC)... Joe Brady help develop the passing game at LSU when Joe burrow broke every record Allen, while getting thrown to the fire had a lot of people who could calm him and help him with the quarterback position... That's why he developed while getting thrown to the fire while most quarterbacks don't But sitting would have still greatly benefited him 100% Edited March 12 by Buffalo716 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 53 minutes ago, colin said: i read this in a backhanded way, where the implication is that mcd can win after we fire him, long into the future. i chortled. You read it correctly and as intended Maybe he can sooner than later but unitl we do all we have right now is gaffes and injury excuses 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, FireChans said: What if Peyton Manning and Tom Brady swapped? Brady would still be the GOAT. Mahomes is the GOAT. In your scenario, Buffalo would have more than one Super Bowl, is that what you're saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, ddaryl said: Reid didn't win a SB till he got to his 2nd head coaching job, and after 13 years HC experience in Philly I'm confident McDermott can do that to. He won the superbowl shortly after getting his first superstar qb. So you kind of miss that the point of the discussion. How many Super Bowls do you think McDermott wins with Baker Mayfield or Kirk Cousins as his QB ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 12 minutes ago, Gregg said: In the beginning it looked like a Bills blowout and Allen's turnovers didn't help. If I remember correctly in the 2nd half the Dolphins were moving the ball successfully and the Bills hung on for the win. Turnovers gave Mia short field opportunities that got them back in it. But I agree with you that Bills defense usually don’t show up in the playoffs. Hopefully things will be different going forward with new casts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, H2o said: 1 hour ago, H2o said: Pretty sure the discussion has always been what if Allen and Mahomes were on the opposite team, regardless of if it was one or three. Pretty sure the discussion has always been what if Allen and Mahomes were on the opposite team, regardless of if it was one or three. No, the discussion is, would the two have also exchanged Super Bowl success if on the opposing teams. My view is Allen would have won with KC as well, and Mahomes would not have won it all with our team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, first_and_ten said: No, the discussion is, would the two have also exchanged Super Bowl success if on the opposing teams. My view is Allen would have won with KC as well, and Mahomes would not have won it all with our team And, we have covered this in multiple of the thousand Mahomes vs Allen threads we've seen on this board. Have fun searching if you would like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Chaos said: He won the superbowl shortly after getting his first superstar qb. So you kind of miss that the point of the discussion. How many Super Bowls do you think McDermott wins with Baker Mayfield or Kirk Cousins as his QB ? Didn;t miss anything. He had a real good QB in Donovan McNabb He also had 14 years of experience as a HC To answer your question which answers itself ZERO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Draconator said: Go to the Chiefs board then. Why, because I acknowledge that a clearly better player and a clearly better team are better? Why can't we just get better? Maybe if Josh spent more time int he film room or working on his deep ball instead of his putting, he'd be able to close the gap. Maybe if McD practiced more situational awareness and tried to dissect Andy Reid's formula, he'd be able to close the gap. Maybe if Beane drafted players that better fit the system we need that had more high level potential, we'd be able to close the gap. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 7 minutes ago, H2o said: And, we have covered this in multiple of the thousand Mahomes vs Allen threads we've seen on this board. Have fun searching if you would like. So why are you commenting then? Just move on!! There are plenty of threads to choose from. Why enter a thread just to whine and complain about it "being just another thread". Not everyone saw those other posts. C'mon !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beebe Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) brock purdy, jalen hurts, jimmy garoppolo, jared goff, nick foles, cam newton, joe flacco, colin kaepernick, rex grossman, matt hasselbeck, jake delhomme, kerry collins, trent dilfer, brad johnson and chris chandler have all QB'd teams to the super bowl. there's a lot of variance in this stuff, and luck is definitely a factor. the bills have had a top-5 level defense most years of the allen era (top 10 at worst) and the offense has been top-5 in recent years as well. one AFC title game appearance and a 5-5 playoff record is a monster underachieve given that, but that's how it goes sometimes. the bills will break through to at least a super bowl appearance if the next five years look like the last five years. Edited March 12 by beebe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted March 12 Author Share Posted March 12 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: Why, because I acknowledge that a clearly better player and a clearly better team are better? Why can't we just get better? Maybe if Josh spent more time int he film room or working on his deep ball instead of his putting, he'd be able to close the gap. Maybe if McD practiced more situational awareness and tried to dissect Andy Reid's formula, he'd be able to close the gap. Maybe if Beane drafted players that better fit the system we need that had more high level potential, we'd be able to close the gap. Not to go in another direction, but since you took it there, I will. It does bother me that Josh Allen doesn't work out or work on his game in the offseason. This is from his own lips. He needs to unwind, as he has said. And you are right that KC has beaten the Bills in the draft room as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I bet the games would come down to a play here or there at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 10 minutes ago, first_and_ten said: So why are you commenting then? Just move on!! There are plenty of threads to choose from. Why enter a thread just to whine and complain about it "being just another thread". Not everyone saw those other posts. C'mon !!! Bruh, you've been on here since 2009 and never seen anything of the like? You're kidding, right? Just stating the obvious about the thread. Facts don't have feelings, so don't let those facts get you caught up in yours. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, first_and_ten said: What if the only difference between the Chiefs and the Bills were the quarterbacks for the last 4 years, Imagine Josh Allen on the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes on the Bills. It's my opinion that the Chiefs would still have won at least 2, possibly all 3 Super Bowls. I think the Bills still come up short even with Mahomes. I think Josh Allen would be talked about as the Goat instead of Mahomes. Organizations help make a player a champion, and the Chiefs organization is better than the Bills. Just one man's opinion, a longsuffering Bills fan. 😔 Kansas City would have let the Chiefs move to Portland, and the Bills would have won 8, yes 8 SuperBowls. The new stadium would have a retractable roof, and blue cheese would be replaced with ketchup as the preferred accompaniment to wings. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Over a hundred years in the NFL there are always outliers I never said mahomes is guaranteed to fail if he was thrown to the fire... I said there is not a quarterback alive who has never benefited from sitting behind a good quarterback Even Tom Brady sat behind Drew bledsoe and it immensely helped his game Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Brett favre immensely helped his game Josh Allen would be better if he got to sit behind an entrenched starter for a season... You get to work on things that you could completely refine without getting thrown to the wolves... When you get thrown to the wolves it's sink or swim Josh swam.. but he still has some little quirks as a quarterback that could have been ironed out if he got to sit behind somebody for a year... Under fire those quirks come out... But not getting thrown to the fire could have them corrected I've been to elite 11 quarterback camps, under armor All-American games, and some of the best quarterback camps in the country over 20 years I understand how quarterbacks think and get developed.. and it takes a team And the situation you are thrown into is a major factor... The bills might not have Andy Reid... But Allen had a plethora of knowledge around him A calming head coach in McDermott... A personal quarterback coach in Palmer... David culley was a division 1 quarterback...Daboll has been around some of the best coaches in the world...Ken Dorsey was a division one quarterback(even if not a great OC)... Joe Brady help develop the passing game at LSU when Joe burrow broke every record Allen, while getting thrown to the fire had a lot of people who could calm him and help him with the quarterback position... That's why he developed while getting thrown to the fire while most quarterbacks don't But sitting would have still greatly benefited him 100% Why was sitting not as beneficial for Aaron Rodgers as it was for Tom Brady? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 38 minutes ago, FireChans said: Why was sitting not as beneficial for Aaron Rodgers as it was for Tom Brady? What makes you say it was not as beneficial? Are you just looking at super bowl wins? Because that's not a quarterback stat.. it's a team stat Aaron Rodgers certainly had some faults in his game coming out of Cal Berkeley... Including some mechanical issues that left his deep ball lacking...despite his arm... Especially for the NFL level Aaron Rodgers certainly corrected that issue on the bench and became one of the best deep ball throwers of all time... He can throw it with juice back shoulder 40 yards down the field.. or put saucy touch on the ball and lay a perfect feathery deep ball Statistically he has the best touchdown to interception ratio of all time... And he has better postseason numbers per game than Tom Brady What he didn't have is a Hall of Fame coach like Bill belichick or Andy Reid... He had Mike McCarthy one of the most overrated coaches of the last 30 years The game certainly slowed down for Aaron Rodgers over 3 years on the bench and he statistically has the best touchdown to interception ratio ever for a decade long starter Sitting certainly benefited him Edited March 12 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsatlastin2018 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 2 hours ago, colin said: i read this in a backhanded way, where the implication is that mcd can win after we fire him, long into the future. i chortled. Who DIDN’T? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 41 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: What makes you say it was not as beneficial? Are you just looking at super bowl wins? Because that's not a quarterback stat.. it's a team stat Aaron Rodgers certainly had some faults in his game coming out of Cal Berkeley... Including some mechanical issues that left his deep ball lacking...despite his arm... Especially for the NFL level Aaron Rodgers certainly corrected that issue on the bench and became one of the best deep ball throwers of all time... He can throw it with juice back shoulder 40 yards down the field.. or put saucy touch on the ball and lay a perfect feathery deep ball Statistically he has the best touchdown to interception ratio of all time... And he has better postseason numbers per game than Tom Brady What he didn't have is a Hall of Fame coach like Bill belichick or Andy Reid... He had Mike McCarthy one of the most overrated coaches of the last 30 years The game certainly slowed down for Aaron Rodgers over 3 years on the bench and he statistically has the best touchdown to interception ratio ever for a decade long starter Sitting certainly benefited him Because Tom Brady is the GOAT. Aaron Rodgers is not. Clearly, the difference wasn't sitting, because they both sat. In fact, you could argue that Rodgers sitting more hurt him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 (edited) 25 minutes ago, FireChans said: Because Tom Brady is the GOAT. Aaron Rodgers is not. Clearly, the difference wasn't sitting, because they both sat. In fact, you could argue that Rodgers sitting more hurt him. There has never been a professional football coach alive who thought sitting a rookie or Young quarterback was a bad idea if you could Never not one Even McDermott wanted to sit Josh Allen as long as he could behind Peterman... But he wouldn't survive a 0-16 season so threw Josh to the flames... He wanted to sit him Drew Brees sat .. Phillip Rivers sat for 2 years ... Eli sat half his rookie season #1 pick It does not hurt the development of any QB that is why coaches are willing to do it... Coaches today don't do it as much because they're on a short leash and will get fired But it's not bad for the player... Always been beneficial Bryce young should have been sitting last year... Learning from the bench and not taking 60 sacks He could have stepped in this year with 150 million in offensive line upgrades But he may already be ruined Edited March 12 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 4 hours ago, Einstein said: Large caveat: Reid had been to a Super Bowl and numerous Championship games by his 7th season (which McDermott just finished). Reid also beat top-4 seeds three times in his first seven seasons, something that McD has yet to do. He did it with McNabb too. For those that want to compare McD to Reid, it's only fair to ask how McD would have done with McNabb instead of Allen at QB, and visa versa, how Reid would have done in Philly with Allen. It's a tough argument to suggest that McD would have had five playoff wins with McNabb. Reid also won four divisional round games and one conference game in his first seven seasons. McD's won only one divisional round game and that was against a wild-card team with an expiring QB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 I’ll acknowledge that Mahomes may have one in Buffalo. He’s been in the league a year longer and is more consistent in the regular season than Josh .. so maybe with him we finally get a one seed. That said, Josh Allen in KC has multiple Super Bowl victories and is the face of the NFL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) Both generational quarterbacks. I'd say Josh is the better athlete but Patrick has superior processing skills and judgment. Many here probably don't agree and might even hate that. That said, I like Josh better as MY quarterback and when we win a Super Bowl it will be sweeter for me and every Bills fan than any KC championship ever was for their players or fans. Edited March 13 by Nephilim17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 19 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said: Both generational quarterbacks. I'd say Josh is the better athlete but Patrick has superior processing skills and judgment. Many here probably don't agree and might even hate that. That said, I like Josh better as MY quarterback and when we win a Super Bowl it will be sweeter for me and every Bills fan than any KC championship ever was for their players or fans. I think that's fair, in terms of the comparison. I see other fans kind of characterizing JA as being all athleticism and really lacking in those processing skills, which I of course completely disagree with. But it's fair to say that Mahomes is better there. As far as that final line, I think there are only a few fanbases out there that might have had an experience like we will when we finally get one - Cubs fans, Red Sox fans in 2004. Maybe Cavs fans when Lebron won that title there? It's hard to think of others. I can't think of an NFL team that has had a comparable history. I suppose Minnesota if they finally get one too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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