When healthy: we were the best team in the league.

[Success]

The Jets game was just weird.  The season opener, Rodgers getting hurt early, Allen kind of falling apart.  But after that, we tore through September.  Allen was firing on all cylinders, and the defense was as good as I've seen in the McDermott era.  It was smothering, aggressive, flying to the ball.  Man, was that D good.

 

Our D when we faced KC at the end was a shell of that D.

 

Every team has to deal with injuries.  No doubt.  But seriously, who dealt w/ more, and which team was clearly impacted by losses? We lost Hines & Damien Harris before things really started.  Then, in one fell swoop, we lost Milano, Tre & Jones.  Arguably the top 3 guys on our defense.  Then we lose Benford, Rapp, Spector and Bernard, the latter of whom had picked up the slack in ways that were completely unexpected. So excited to see him AND Milano on the field this coming season.

 

It wasn't just that we had to navigate the playoffs without quite a few of our best players. Even some of the guys playing, like Rasul Douglas, were clearly playing hurt and less effective.

 

People always say the same thing:  "excuses, excuses."  To which I respond:  "reality."  If KC had the extent of injuries we had, and we were as healthy as they were, I have no issue saying that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell they would beat us.  

 

[GrimboG]

I agree. 

 

My friends that support other teams would think its sour grapes, but we were so beat up on D by the time the KC game rolled around. Having to squeeze out 6 games in row, plus playing on a shorter week... we were gassed.  AJ klein hobbling around in the second half...

 

They had the 3 seed locked up so treated GW17 like a bye. 

 

Thems the breaks I suppose. Hope we can ride a bit better luck next year! 

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

Our mate from Kansas City that posts here did make a good point the other day…

 

Outside the QB … is there another superstar on this Bills team ?

 

KC has a couple …including Chris Jones who I think is the most valuable defensive player in the game at present …

 

They got 2 great CBs ( better than anything we got) … superior interior OL ( that handled Oliver with ease… ) and Kelce on the decline but still a big game winner …

 

Bills have got a lot of “above average “ players … but not too many game winners outside JA..
 

 

[Success]

33 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Our mate from Kansas City that posts here did make a good point the other day…

 

Outside the QB … is there another superstar on this Bills team ?

 

KC has a couple …including Chris Jones who I think is the most valuable defensive player in the game at present …

 

They got 2 great CBs ( better than anything we got) … superior interior OL ( that handled Oliver with ease… ) and Kelce on the decline but still a big game winner …

 

Bills have got a lot of “above average “ players … but not too many game winners outside JA..
 

 

 

He also said that Beane hasn't built a Super Bowl-caliber roster yet.  Which I disagreed with, as his team - which is clearly SB caliber, as they won it - barely squeaked by a very beat-up Bills team in the playoffs.  I mean, if Diggs makes that catch, it's a very different game.  If Chris Jones gets there a half second later, it's a different game.  We were right there w/ KC - so how were we not SB caliber?

 

And I'd disagree a bit on superstars.  Diggs is a superstar.  I don't think he was healthy down the stretch.  Kincaid is a superstar in the making.  We have one of the better pass rushes in the league.  Our O-line is as good as it has been in the JA era.  Cook is easily a top 5 RB.

 

EDIT:  I completely forgot to add how much I enjoy KC fans coming here and Chiefsplaining to us why our team isn't good enough.

 

Edited February 18 by Success

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Our mate from Kansas City that posts here did make a good point the other day…

 

Outside the QB … is there another superstar on this Bills team ?

 

KC has a couple …including Chris Jones who I think is the most valuable defensive player in the game at present …

 

They got 2 great CBs ( better than anything we got) … superior interior OL ( that handled Oliver with ease… ) and Kelce on the decline but still a big game winner …

 

Bills have got a lot of “above average “ players … but not too many game winners outside JA..
 

 

Matt Milano, Jimbo Cook....Kincaid is just a rookie, but he seems like the real deal.

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Matt Milano, Jimbo Cook....Kincaid is just a rookie, but he seems like the real deal.

Agree about :Milano …out of sight out of mind unfortunately … the other two aren’t there yet but fingers crossed 

Edited February 18 by Aussie Joe

[Punching Bag]

27 minutes ago, Success said:

The Jets game was just weird.  The season opener, Rodgers getting hurt early, Allen kind of falling apart.  But after that, we tore through September.  Allen was firing on all cylinders, and the defense was as good as I've seen in the McDermott era.  It was smothering, aggressive, flying to the ball.  Man, was that D good.

 

Our D when we faced KC at the end was a shell of that D.

 

Every team has to deal with injuries.  No doubt.  But seriously, who dealt w/ more, and which team was clearly impacted by losses? We lost Hines & Damien Harris before things really started.  Then, in one fell swoop, we lost Milano, Tre & Jones.  Arguably the top 3 guys on our defense.  Then we lose Benford, Rapp, Spector and Bernard, the latter of whom had picked up the slack in ways that were completely unexpected. So excited to see him AND Milano on the field this coming season.

 

It wasn't just that we had to navigate the playoffs without quite a few of our best players. Even some of the guys playing, like Rasul Douglas, were clearly playing hurt and less effective.

 

People always say the same thing:  "excuses, excuses."  To which I respond:  "reality."  If KC had the extent of injuries we had, and we were as healthy as they were, I have no issue saying that there isn't a snowball's chance in hell they would beat us.  

 

 

Last year was an experiment by commissioner to see if he could control who would make it to Superbowl by rigging schedule against team.

Some would call it fixed but NFL used word experiment but never cited what they purpose of the experiment was and what the control was which every experiment needs.

 

It had as much validity as drawing and quartering commissioner using four Budweiser Clydesdale beer truck horses and using it to determine if beet tastes better before and after.

 

 

[akcash]

This thread triggered a thought I had the other day. Just a take. I was looking at Allen’s numbers on pro football reference the other day. His yards per attempt have been around 7.4 I want to say the last couple years and comp percentage around 63. Tom Brady said in a Zoom interview with Allen that he needs to take the secondary reads more often. I think maybe at least with the comp percentage there is more meat on the bone and that could keep us out of games like the Jets game. I love Allen I’m just thinking that in the moment philosophy tweak could take him to the next level. And I’m sure Brady (Joe)can put him in good situations to make those secondary reads easier. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Milano going down was catastrophic.  He's basically our only true All Pro player on our defense. Tre & DQ going down again paired with Von never stepping up destroyed the season. Even the 6 game winning streak was riddled with close calls against weaker opponents. The only way we can pass Cincy or KC in the playoffs is with a fully healthy defense. If the gang can find a strength & conditioning team to minimize injuries this fall, sky's the limit. Bernard paired with Matt is collasal.  Still have my doubts about our front 4 pressure?  It's critical we get out week 1 on a great start. And draft Josh new weapons.

[John from Riverside]

I know it sounds crazy, but I believe with the original poster saying as well
 

I really would’ve liked to face the Kansas City Chiefs healthy this year. They just threw the middle of the field all game right where we were playing a player that was about to go on vacation when we picked him up off the waiver wire.

Edited February 19 by John from Riverside

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

Our mate from Kansas City that posts here did make a good point the other day…

 

Outside the QB … is there another superstar on this Bills team ?

 

KC has a couple …including Chris Jones who I think is the most valuable defensive player in the game at present …

 

They got 2 great CBs ( better than anything we got) … superior interior OL ( that handled Oliver with ease… ) and Kelce on the decline but still a big game winner …

 

Bills have got a lot of “above average “ players … but not too many game winners outside JA..
 

 

Milano, and now Kincaid.  Cook is coming on, but Diggs has fallen off.  We need a hand full of studs to help get the team where we want. 

[julian]

The Bills are one of maybe 5-7 teams every year who have a legitimate chance of winning a title.

 

 It’s a great place to be, hopefully injuries, coaching and luck all come together once or twice in Allen’s career and they get it done.

[Cray51]

2 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Our mate from Kansas City that posts here did make a good point the other day…

 

Outside the QB … is there another superstar on this Bills team ?

 

KC has a couple …including Chris Jones who I think is the most valuable defensive player in the game at present …

 

They got 2 great CBs ( better than anything we got) … superior interior OL ( that handled Oliver with ease… ) and Kelce on the decline but still a big game winner …

 

Bills have got a lot of “above average “ players … but not too many game winners outside JA..
 

 

Milano

Taron Johnson

Diggs

 

they are all pro bowl/all pro talent at their position any given year 

[Jrb1979]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Matt Milano, Jimbo Cook....Kincaid is just a rookie, but he seems like the real deal.

Kincaid is a rookie and may come a playmaker. On defense outside of maybe Milano they have no game breakers. They have a good group of guys that work well together but they lack those elite CB like KC has. On the D line they have no one as good as Jones. Again they are a good group just not elite. 

[Aussie Joe]

13 minutes ago, Cray51 said:

Milano

Taron Johnson

Diggs

 

they are all pro bowl/all pro talent at their position any given year 

Put Diggs down as a “used to be “

 

I like Taron … he is an above average ..but give me the other 2 from KC

[Mikie2times]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

He also said that Beane hasn't built a Super Bowl-caliber roster yet.  Which I disagreed with, as his team - which is clearly SB caliber, as they won it - barely squeaked by a very beat-up Bills team in the playoffs.  I mean, if Diggs makes that catch, it's a very different game.  If Chris Jones gets there a half second later, it's a different game.  We were right there w/ KC - so how were we not SB caliber?

 

And I'd disagree a bit on superstars.  Diggs is a superstar.  I don't think he was healthy down the stretch.  Kincaid is a superstar in the making.  We have one of the better pass rushes in the league.  Our O-line is as good as it has been in the JA era.  Cook is easily a top 5 RB.

 

EDIT:  I completely forgot to add how much I enjoy KC fans coming here and Chiefsplaining to us why our team isn't good enough.

 

If Josh's fumble is recovered by Kansas City he doesn't even get the throw to Shakir. If Kansas City doesn't fumble in our end zone that drive doesn't matter. If Toney isn't Offside we don't make the playoffs. It's funny how these what if's only seem to work in our favor. 

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

“Ifs and buts” should be our new team name. 

Becoming exhausting to be honest

[Success]

4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

If Josh's fumble is recovered by Kansas City he doesn't even get the throw to Shakir. If Kansas City doesn't fumble in our end zone that drive doesn't matter. If Toney isn't Offside we don't make the playoffs. It's funny how these what if's only seem to work in our favor. 

 

That's an interesting way to look at it.

 

I'm aware of the "ifs" that go against the Bills.  But the underlying, main point is that the Bills are rightthere w/ the Chiefs.  The games come down to a play or 2.

 

Would you agree?  Or are you of the mindset that the Bills are somehow light years behind the champs?  Please expound.

 

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Success said:

 

That's an interesting way to look at it.

 

I'm aware of the "ifs" that go against the Bills.  But the underlying, main point is that the Bills are rightthere w/ the Chiefs.  The games come down to a play or 2.

 

Would you agree?  Or are you of the mindset that the Bills are somehow light years behind the champs?  Please expound.

 

No team is light years ahead of anybody but I think you're underestimating how far ahead the Chiefs are. They have never failed to reach an AFC championship game since 2018. Patriots also won by small margins. That didn't mean anybody was close. We might as well be on another planet until we beat them in the playoffs. Same goes for the Bengals. 

[Augie]

Turn your head and cough! I feel a trophy in our future! 

[strive_for_five_guy]

7 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Becoming exhausting to be honest

We essentially won the Lombardi this year 😆

[Success]

3 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

No team is light years ahead of anybody but I think you're underestimating how far ahead the Chiefs are. They have never failed to reach an AFC championship game since 2018. Patriots also won by small margins. That didn't mean anybody was close. We might as well be on another planet until we beat them in the playoffs. Same goes for the Bengals. 

 

That doesn't sound very logical.  It sounds more like an emotional response to the fact that we lost to them again - but it's not an objective viewpoint.

 

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Success said:

 

He also said that Beane hasn't built a Super Bowl-caliber roster yet.  Which I disagreed with, as his team - which is clearly SB caliber, as they won it - barely squeaked by a very beat-up Bills team in the playoffs.  I mean, if Diggs makes that catch, it's a very different game.  If Chris Jones gets there a half second later, it's a different game.  We were right there w/ KC - so how were we not SB caliber?

I literally said the exact opposite.  

 

On 2/17/2024 at 1:02 PM, Billl said:

This is the answer, IMO.  Beane and McDermott came to Buffalo with a plan, and they built up a championship caliber roster by following it.  They didn’t quite win a championship, but they were a top 3 franchise over a 5 year span.

 

[Mikie2times]

4 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That doesn't sound very logical.  It sounds more like an emotional response to the fact that we lost to them again - but it's not an objective viewpoint.

 

I remember when I used to play a close friend of mine in basketball. It was always fairly close. Depending on the score you might even say we were just about even. But he rarely won. Somehow I always seemed to win. Always. So you could argue it was close, but it really wasn't. Those couple of points might as well been five times as many for as hard as it was for him to overcome.

 

If this thread is your version of logical I'm thrilled you don't think I am.  

Edited February 19 by Mikie2times

[Success]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

I literally said the exact opposite.  

 

 

 

Not in the thread I'm thinking of.  You specifically said that Beane had not built a Super Bowl-caliber roster.

 

I will find it.  It was just before the SB.

 

[Success]

7 minutes ago, Billl said:

I literally said the exact opposite.  

 

 

 

Found it:

 

Page 2 of the discussion.  "I totally disagree with the notion that Beane has built a Super Bowl caliber roster over the past three seasons."

 

Pretty definitive.

 

8 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

I remember when I used to play a close friend of mine in basketball. It was always fairly close. Depending on the score you might even say we were just about even. But he rarely won. Somehow I always seemed to win. Always. So you could argue it was close, but it really wasn't. Those couple of points might as well been five times as many for as hard as it was for him to overcome.

 

If this thread is your version of logical I'm thrilled you don't think I am.  

 

I respect the Chiefs.  They're a great team, with a great coach & QB.

 

But they have had luck we haven't had.  With the officiating last year, and w/ injuries this year.

 

Honest question - really think about the answer:  if the Chiefs had the injuries we had on defense going into the playoff game, and we were as healthy as they were:  who wins?

 

[90sBills]

28 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

If Josh's fumble is recovered by Kansas City he doesn't even get the throw to Shakir. If Kansas City doesn't fumble in our end zone that drive doesn't matter. If Toney isn't Offside we don't make the playoffs. It's funny how these what if's only seem to work in our favor. 

Agreed. That’s why it’s useless to play the ‘what if’s game’. Better to deal with what is. 

[90sBills]

25 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That's an interesting way to look at it.

 

I'm aware of the "ifs" that go against the Bills.  But the underlying, main point is that the Bills are rightthere w/ the Chiefs.  The games come down to a play or 2.

 

Would you agree?  Or are you of the mindset that the Bills are somehow light years behind the champs?  Please expound.

 

Bills are not far behind. They always give KC problems. But look at it from the Bills view and it’s clear KC gives the Bills bigger problems. So while the Bills are close it doesn’t mean they’re able to clear that hump until they actually do it. 

[Billl]

@SuccessThat’s a pretty big qualifier given that Allen, Milano, Diggs, Dawkins, Tre, etc. were added more than 3 seasons ago.  This is a declining roster, and it’s no longer at a championship level.  Losing a close game in the Divisional round doesn’t change that.  The team was closer to missing the postseason than winning a Super Bowl.

Edited February 19 by Billl

[Mikie2times]

10 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Found it:

 

Page 2 of the discussion.  "I totally disagree with the notion that Beane has built a Super Bowl caliber roster over the past three seasons."

 

Pretty definitive.

 

 

I respect the Chiefs.  They're a great team, with a great coach & QB.

 

But they have had luck we haven't had.  With the officiating last year, and w/ injuries this year.

 

Honest question - really think about the answer:  if the Chiefs had the injuries we had on defense going into the playoff game, and we were as healthy as they were:  who wins?

 

It's a dumb question. It doesn't matter. I could have made a similar hypothetical after 13 seconds and the following year we got blown out at home vs the Bengals.  Further, why do you think the "better" team always wins? That's not how this works. What is even the definition of the better team? The one that can beat up on average teams in the regular season more consistently. Ok, then we probably are the better team. 

[WotAGuy]

Whatever ya gotta tell yourself. Despite everything they had working against them, if Josh had led them to a TD, I think they would have beaten KC. As it is, the Chiefs proved they are indeed a dynasty. 

[Mikie2times]

And I will say this @Success I'm happy we have some people to drowned out the Nancie's like myself. It would be pretty miserable if that wasn't the case. But part of the pain of this era is knowing that things can appear a certain way but not actually happen and with remarkable consistency to boot. We can appear like we are the best or that we are ready and then it doesn't work out that way.

 

No amount of success in the regular season or speculation on what we could be will make me feel like this team is ready. They will be ready when they beat the Chiefs and same goes for the Bengals as they seem to be more difficult for us to match up with. 

[Success]

6 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

And I will say this @Success I'm happy we have some people to drowned out the Nancie's like myself. It would be pretty miserable if that wasn't the case. But part of the pain of this era is knowing that things can appear a certain way but not actually happen and with remarkable consistency to boot. We can appear like we are the best or that we are ready and then it doesn't work out that way.

 

No amount of success in the regular season or speculation on what we could be will make me feel like this team is ready. They will be ready when they beat the Chiefs and same goes for the Bengals as they seem to be more difficult for us to match up with. 

 

I'm starting to see the duality of it more & more.  Sometimes, I think posters here are too negative, and I have to remind myself that I'm an incurable homer.  I defended Whaley all the time on here, and loved trading up for Watkins.  I thought Orton was the answer.  

 

I appreciate the back & forth much more now.  The "nancies" have actually been right more often than not.  Recently, I just feel like things have worked against us.  But I get that the end result is really all that matters..

 

When we get one - WHEN - we'll all celebrate together.

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I know it sounds crazy, but I believe with the original poster saying as well
 

I really would’ve liked to face the Kansas City Chiefs healthy this year. They just threw the middle of the field all game right where we were playing a player that was about to go on vacation when we picked him up off the waiver wire.

 

And I'm sitting here wondering why there's so many "Eye Rolls" over the comments of the first poster.

[BillsPride12]

Can we hang a banner for being  Hypothetically the best team in the league the last 4 years according to Bills fans on message boards and Twitter? 

[Success]

Just now, BillsPride12 said:

Can we hang a banner for being  Hypothetically the best team in the league the last 4 years according to Bills fans on message boards and Twitter? 

 

Nope.

 

[TheWeatherMan]

McDermott is this teams biggest injury.  Until Pegs decides to permanently IR him, this team is not beating the Chiefs in the post season. 

[Zerovoltz]

5 hours ago, Success said:

 

He also said that Beane hasn't built a Super Bowl-caliber roster yet.  Which I disagreed with, as his team - which is clearly SB caliber, as they won it - barely squeaked by a very beat-up Bills team in the playoffs.  I mean, if Diggs makes that catch, it's a very different game.  If Chris Jones gets there a half second later, it's a different game.  We were right there w/ KC - so how were we not SB caliber?

 

And I'd disagree a bit on superstars.  Diggs is a superstar.  I don't think he was healthy down the stretch.  Kincaid is a superstar in the making.  We have one of the better pass rushes in the league.  Our O-line is as good as it has been in the JA era.  Cook is easily a top 5 RB.

 

EDIT:  I completely forgot to add how much I enjoy KC fans coming here and Chiefsplaining to us why our team isn't good enough.

 

Speaking for myself...I've totally thought the Bills have been good enough and are good enough to win a championship for a while now.  Unfortunately, the Chiefs are also good enough...and the Bengals have been right there...and this season, Baltimore was good enough to get it done also.  The AFC is a guantlet.  

 

I remain convinced the Bills, with Allen are always a threat.  (next year, with the Bills cap situation, it will be harder, but sometimes you win in the years you don't have the best version of your team.)

[SoonerBillsFan]

3 hours ago, julian said:

The Bills are one of maybe 5-7 teams every year who have a legitimate chance of winning a title.

 

 It’s a great place to be, hopefully injuries, coaching and luck all come together once or twice in Allen’s career and they get it done.

We are at a point that was expected though.  Due to age and injuries it's time for "pruning" of this roster.   I felt it should have happened this year,but they decided to " run it back" ( I hate that term) and it failed.  But that happens.  I hope Beane learned his lesson,and cuts bait this year with every contract that needs to be, and really hits on the draft. 

 

I figure this is a retool year where we go 9-8 or 10-7 with a wild card spot hopefully, and come roaring back in 2025.

[Mikie2times]

14 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

McDermott is this teams biggest injury.  Until Pegs decides to permanently IR him, this team is not beating the Chiefs in the post season. 

Reid, Spags, Mahomes

McDermott, Brady, Allen

 

Allen is the closest in that comparison but still. Being slightly worse with our coaching on both sides. Then Mahomes is a tick better than everybody else. Chiefs are going to win more of the coin flips than they lose and certainly when it counts.