I contend that this team's problem isn't coaching, it's talent.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

Edited January 28 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[TheWeatherMan]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

Nah, It’s coaching! 

Edited January 28 by TheWeatherMan

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

It’s coaching! 

 

Did coaching drop a deep shot that hit a receiver in the hands? Did coaching get manhandled back into the QB in the clutch? Did coaching get scorched by a 34 yo tight end in single coverage? Was coaching incapable of winning a pass rush battle all game?

 

 

Edited January 28 by Pine Barrens Mafia

[TheWeatherMan]

1 minute ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Did coaching drop a deep shot that hit a receiver in the hands? Did coaching get manhandled back into the QB in the clutch? Did coaching get scorched by a 34 yo tight end in single coverage? Was coaching incapable of winning a pass wish battle all game?

 

 

No, yes, yes, yes. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, TheWeatherMan said:

No, yes, yes, yes. 

You're not a serious person.

[GunnerBill]

Oliver. 

 

But otherwise I agree with your assessment of the major issue. Coaching isn't perfect. But we have lots of good players and not enough real top end talent. 

[Maybe Someday]

There are many, many games over the past couple of seasons that we lost where the play or plays needed to win the game were there and our guys just didn’t make them. 
 

Coaching has had flaws but there’s only so much they can do. Players have to make plays. 

[Roundybout]

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Did coaching drop a deep shot that hit a receiver in the hands? Did coaching get manhandled back into the QB in the clutch? Did coaching get scorched by a 34 yo tight end in single coverage? Was coaching incapable of winning a pass rush battle all game?

 

 

 

After the arguments we had about McD this season, who are you and what have you done with Pine Barrens Mafia?!?!?!

[JGMcD2]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

Oliver. 

 

But otherwise I agree with your assessment of the major issue. Coaching isn't perfect. But we have lots of good players and not enough real top end talent. 

Agreed, but we also have not been picking in spots to grab top end talent. That’s part of it. 

[QB Bills]

Did Brandon Beane ask AJ Klein to cover Kelce last week when there were better options on the bench? Did Brandon Beane run up and down the sidelines calling defensive timeouts in those fateful 13 seconds only to make the same boneheaded mistake twice? Did Brandon Beane continue to settle for field goals in the playoff game the year prior? 

 

Not saying Beane doesn't deserve some blame here, but you also have to consider that McDermott likely has a huge say on who gets drafted/signed to this roster. The buck stops with the clapping idiot on the sidelines. A competent coach these last few years and the Bills probably have super bowl or two by now.

Edited January 28 by QB Bills

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Roundybout said:

 

After the arguments we had about McD this season, who are you and what have you done with Pine Barrens Mafia?!?!?!

Look, I'm not big on either guy, honestly, but I think the lion's share hangs around beane's neck. I especially hate the von miller signing.

[Dr. Who]

I think McD gets tight in big games, and that carries over to his team. I also would prefer not to be changing OC every 2 or 3 years, and that will happen whether the Bills have success or not. If it's not working, they will change, and if it is successful, your OC is going to be a HC somewhere. But I don't think McD is incapable of winning. How he wins is by having a dominant offensive juggernaut. He doesn't have a defense that shows up and stops a good offense in the post-season. He's more aggressive than Frazier, but it's a similar problem. We also don't have a big play superstar on D. Von Miller was supposed to be that guy, but injury and age derailed the plan; the gamble didn't pay off.

 

Josh Allen is a once in a lifetime gift. It's really absurd that they can't seem to figure out how much of a gift. They need to get him the best possible weapons, and that needs to be priority 1 and priority 2. And then keep building up the oline, but DT and S, which are genuine needs, are probably in the forefront of their careful souls.

 

 

Edited January 28 by Dr. Who

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, QB Bills said:

A competent coach these last few years and the Bills probably have super bowl or two by now.

We'll have to disagree there.

[nedboy7]

I started to see this pretty clearly this season as well.  I know many on here believe the team is underachieving.  But actually with the talent we have they are over achieving.  So why isn't the team more talented.  Cause it is very hard to have the most talented team in the NFL no matter how good a GM you are. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

10 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Did coaching drop a deep shot that hit a receiver in the hands? Did coaching get manhandled back into the QB in the clutch? Did coaching get scorched by a 34 yo tight end in single coverage? Was coaching incapable of winning a pass rush battle all game?

 

 

Same GM and he isn't going anywhere so...

[Roundybout]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Look, I'm not big on either guy, honestly, but I think the lion's share hangs around beane's neck. I especially hate the von miller signing.

 

The Von signing was great before the ACL tear. He had eight sacks in 11 games! Too bad he's dogging it. 

 

My big issue with Beane is investing in skill position players. He's still riding the high of 2019 when we got baller production out of low-end signings like John Brown and Beasley. It's so obvious that you have to have a first-round receiver on the team. I LOVE Kincaid and I think he's a stud, but we need speed. 

Just now, nedboy7 said:

I started to see this pretty clearly this season as well.  I know many on here believe the team is underachieving.  But actually with the talent we have they are over achieving.  So why isn't the team more talented.  Cause it is very hard to have the most talented team in the NFL no matter how good a GM you are. 

 

I saw this a while ago. We have really, really poor receiving talent compared to a team like Cincy or San Fran. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

 

I saw this a while ago. We have really, really poor receiving talent compared to a team like Cincy or San Fran. 

Not to mention their defenses. 

[Warriorspikes51]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I think McD gets tight in big games, and that carries over to his team. I also would prefer not to be changing OC every 2 or 3 years, and that will happen whether the Bills have success or not. If it's not working, they will change, and if it is successful, your OC is going to be a HC somewhere. But I don't think McD is incapable of winning. How he wins is by having a dominant offensive juggernaut. He doesn't have a defense that shows up and stops a good offense in the post-season. He's more aggressive than Frazier, but it's a similar problem. We also don't have a big play superstar on D. Von Miller was supposed to be that guy, but injury and age derailed the plan; the gamble didn't pay off.

 

Josh Allen is a once in a lifetime gift. It's really absurd that they can't seem to figure out how much of a gift. They need to get him the best possible weapons, and that needs to be priority 1 and priority 2. And then keep building up the oline, but DT and S, which are genuine needs, are probably in the forefront of their careful souls.

 

 

This. I’d go so far as to say we could draft WR’s in Round 1, 2 & 3.
 

This class is so good we need to take advantage.  If at least 2 hit, your offense is reborn as a much more terrifying group. Especially if those players are a dynamic speed threat 

 

imagine adding Jaylen Waddle & Zay Flowers

Edited January 28 by Warriorspikes51

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

This. I’d go so far as to say we could draft WR’s in Round 1, 2 & 3.
 

This class is so good we need to take advantage.  If at least 2 hit, your offense is reborn as a much more terrifying group. Especially if those players are a dynamic speed threat 

Speed needs to be the focus on both sides of the ball. No more plodders 

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I started to see this pretty clearly this season as well.  I know many on here believe the team is underachieving.  But actually with the talent we have they are over achieving.  So why isn't the team more talented.  Cause it is very hard to have the most talented team in the NFL no matter how good a GM you are. 

 

We look like a different team when we don’t have a WR teams have to seriously worry about. Hopefully that changes if Diggs turns into Diggs again and as his compliment/replacement gets up to speed. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Warriorspikes51 said:

This. I’d go so far as to say we could draft WR’s in Round 1, 2 & 3.
 

This class is so good we need to take advantage.  If at least 2 hit, your offense is reborn as a much more terrifying group. Especially if those players are a dynamic speed threat 

You have a better chance of winning the lottery than that trifecta happening, but I agree it is a really good wr class. I am hoping for a round 1 and day 2 pick. 

[julian]

They need get a WR in the 1st round, if they Believe there’s only 3 or 4 difference makers in this deep WR draft then they need to trade up, trade up twice like they did to move into the top 10 for Josh if they feel it’s necessary.

 

 This offense needs a young blue chip wideout on a rookie contract in a massive way.

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

You have a better chance of winning the lottery than that trifecta happening, but I agree it is a really good wr class. I am hoping for a round 1 and day 2 pick. 

 

Just gotta hope we don't get the Quintin Johnston out of this class. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

With one of Bernard or Milano healthy we’re in the afc championship right now…kind of shocked K.C. just snuck by a team with aj klein getting victimized all game 

 

ed oliver was amazing this year lol  I legitimately think the vast majority of people that know football take him over metcalf 

[Eastport bills]

13 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

Easy to second guess draft choices. Oliver was a good pick as evidenced by the year he had after he got paid. Lack of speed on defense has a lot to do with injuries. With Milano, Rousseau, Bernard, Miller, and Tre White there’s enough speed. Williams is a draft that will pay dividends the next few seasons. You neglect to mention Shakir, Kincaid with a trade, Cook and a guard that played every play this season. Miller, White and Diggs contracts will be a problem when Josh explodes but you can’t take big swings if you’re afraid of injuries. You also neglected to mention the Douglas acquisition which helped win 6 straight. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

With one of Bernard or Milano healthy we’re in the afc championship right now…kind of shocked K.C. just snuck by a team with aj klein getting victimized all game 

 

ed oliver was amazing this year lol  I legitimately think the vast majority of people that know football take him over metcalf 

Ed Oliver was utterly invisible for the majority of his career and in this year's postseason.

 

He's like the football equivalent of Mr. September 

1 minute ago, Eastport bills said:

Easy to second guess draft choices. Oliver was a good pick as evidenced by the year he had after he got paid. Lack of speed on defense has a lot to do with injuries. With Milano, Rousseau, Bernard, Miller, and Tre White there’s enough speed. Williams is a draft that will pay dividends the next few seasons. You neglect to mention Shakir, Kincaid with a trade, Cook and a guard that played every play this season. Miller, White and Diggs contracts will be a problem when Josh explodes but you can’t take big swings if you’re afraid of injuries. You also neglected to mention the Douglas acquisition which helped win 6 straight. 

Tre white's career is probably over 

[Roundybout]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Ed Oliver was utterly invisible for the majority of his career and in this year's postseason.

 

He's like the football equivalent of Mr. September 

 

He had three QB hits against Pittsburgh tho

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Ed Oliver was utterly invisible for the majority of his career and in this year's postseason.

 

He's like the football equivalent of Mr. September 

Dk wasn’t enough of a Mr September to even get his team to the playoffs 😂

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

Agree on screwing up the cap,  but I believe Oche was benched this year.

[Aussie Joe]

They still could have won the game in the final two minutes last week…

 

It’s not like they lost 37-7

[stinky finger]

The only thing you’ve done here for me is want to get rid of both.

[BarleyNY]

39 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

If you had to ask me to choose whether to fire beane or McDermott, I choose beane. Why? While he's overall built a competitive roster, he's utterly failed at drafting gane-changing players. 

 

You know my position on some of his picks, but ask yourself honestly: would you rather have a Metcalf or an Oliver? Basham or Humphrey? AJE or Uche? I could go on, but beane seems to prefer a whole roster of average over high ceiling guys (oddly, with the exception of the QB).

 

Also, this team lacks speed all over the field on both offense and defense, and I'd argue that the lack of speed on defense is the most notable reason why this team has failed in the postseason.

 

Lastly, beane's cap management and free agent acquisitions have been suboptimal, and the cap issues are going to do us in this coming season, I get the feeling. So, if you're asking me who's holding the bag of failure, it's Brandon Beane.

 

Do you honestly think that McDermott isn’t directing Beane on where resources get used and on how he wants the team built?

[NORWOODS FOOT]

I agree, we need a talented coach.

[Eastport bills]

4 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Ed Oliver was utterly invisible for the majority of his career and in this year's postseason.

 

He's like the football equivalent of Mr. September 

Tre white's career is probably over 

He doesn’t think so and that means he’s a cap hit.

[balln]

7 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Easy to second guess draft choices. Oliver was a good pick as evidenced by the year he had after he got paid. Lack of speed on defense has a lot to do with injuries. With Milano, Rousseau, Bernard, Miller, and Tre White there’s enough speed. Williams is a draft that will pay dividends the next few seasons. You neglect to mention Shakir, Kincaid with a trade, Cook and a guard that played every play this season. Miller, White and Diggs contracts will be a problem when Josh explodes but you can’t take big swings if you’re afraid of injuries. You also neglected to mention the Douglas acquisition which helped win 6 straight. 

Ed

oliver is still an average rotational player to me. Wow he showed up vs the chargers!

 

color me impressed !

 

he didn’t make any play vs kc. He’s weak

agaisnt the run. His short arms / can’t get off blocks. And his rush is undisciplined more often than not and our d gets burned by the qb bc of it 

[Aussie Joe]

41 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Ed Oliver was utterly invisible for the majority of his career and in this year's postseason.

 

He's like the football equivalent of Mr. September 

 

He was probably gassed from having to carry the rest of the D Line the second half of the season 

 

Edited January 28 by Aussie Joe

[OldNMBillsFan]

18 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I started to see this pretty clearly this season as well.  I know many on here believe the team is underachieving.  But actually with the talent we have they are over achieving.  So why isn't the team more talented.  Cause it is very hard to have the most talented team in the NFL no matter how good a GM you are. 

 

If you put any credibility in the Pro Bowl selections, that is selected by a combination of players, coaches and fans, it appears the Bills may have overachieved.  The Bills had only had 2 pro bowlers while the Ravens had 7, Chiefs 5, Dolphins 6 and the Browns had 5. 

 

 

[Tim Tindale]

I don’t know… watching this Ravens/Chiefs game. We were an even somewhat healthy defense away from being the AFC champs. The Ravens look like inferior team here, at home, and it’s not really close. 

[Fetou]

3 minutes ago, Tim Tindale said:

I don’t know… watching this Ravens/Chiefs game. We were an even somewhat healthy defense away from being the AFC champs. The Ravens look like inferior team here, at home, and it’s not really close. 

I have no confidence in the McDermott playoff defense against a good coach & QB even if everybody was healthy. I sympathize this year with the depletion and in isolation I think it would be perfectly acceptable to have a bad defensive performance, but they've been gutted with little resistance every time they've played Mahomes/Burrow in January for nearly half a decade now

[VW82]

First of all, there isn't actually a problem. We were 4th in points allowed and 5th in points scored. We're basically top 5ish in those categories most years. The vast majority of NFL teams would take McD and/or Beane in a heartbeat. 

 

But as to why we can't get over the hump, it's both. Beane has made some nice picks but he's also whiffed badly on some, and the only sure fire star he's drafted is Josh. Beane also F'd our cap. He continues to blame it on covid but not every team in the NFL is screwed like we are. 

 

Meanwhile, McD gave us a culture of winning and accountability for the first time in two decades. He has a system that works against most of the NFL even if fans refuse to give him credit. But he's also too conservative and certain teams just have his number (e.g. Chiefs and Bengals). 

 

We're a small team that can win on speed until we play big teams in Jan, and then we lose. We get outcoached againt the Andy Reids of the L every year when it counts. We've also had both our FO and coaching staff pilfered by other teams looking to leach off our success. 

 

It's complicated. The good news is we're too F'd with the cap to worry about this stuff next year. McBeane are good at rebuilding and that's what we need to focus on.