Who are your top 10 QBs in the league

[Big Blitz]

What defense has stopped Mahomes in the playoffs?  The Bengals D had an elite 2nd half in the AFC championship given life by an awful Chiefs play call at the end of the first half bc they do everything right and goes there way.  More on that in a second.   

 

If at home, that Ravens D couldn’t - Chiefs were up 2 scores all game and came up short I believe in the 3rd quarter on a 4th down run that was one of those “everything just goes right for the Chiefs moments.”  Again, more on that in a second.  
 

If that Ravens D couldn’t beat them how the hell was the D we rolled out supposed to?

 

I’m in a pretty good place going into 2024 - best I’ve felt going into an offseason in 2 seasons.  
 

 

 

Now as for the Chiefs everything going their way - this crap mindset has to stop..

 

Hear a lot of this today from most everywhere around here:

 

 

This is such loser b.s.  

 

I stick by what I said about Josh Allen and this Bills team after the Rams game in 2020.  We need a complete mental reset now.  This is a HOF QB in the making - yes 13 seconds set that mindset back but to me this season’s finish has righted the ship and the team and its coach truly elevated its game to another level.  
 

We are going to be SB favorites (at least top 5) every year Josh plays.  We have beaten Mahomes more than any team.  And in their place.  
 

I look forward to doing it again.  
 

I expect this team to win every game.   

Edited January 30 by Big Blitz

[HappyDays]

16 minutes ago, beebe said:

The Bills don't have a McDermott problem. They have a keep-running-into-Mahomes-problem. 

 

Which brings us back to my point... Mahomes and the Chiefs offense are not literally unstoppable. You know this, right?

 

Is this one of those things where you don't actually have a point, you just like trolling another team's board? There's 2 other Chiefs fans on here with the same shtick. You should start your own little club.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I’m in a pretty good place going into 2024 - best I’ve felt going into an offseason in 2 seasons.  
 

 

Genuinely, me too. Last year I felt like all our best players were older. But the younger guys have emerged this year. Sure there isn't a lot of cap dollars to get better but there are 10 draft picks plus the natural development that should come from the likes of Kincaid, Cook, Shakir, Bernard and Benford having been true starters for the first time in 2023. I expect all those guys to be even better for the experience in 2024. 

 

Sure, there are some question marks. WR, DL, Secondary... but I don't look at where we are and see problems. I see solutions.

[machine gun kelly]

On 1/24/2024 at 7:44 PM, 78thealltimegreat said:

There isn’t a right or wrong answer just was curious as the top 4 seems pretty set in stone

Patrick 

Josh

Lamar 

Joey B

after that you can throw names in a hat Id go 

Matt Stafford

Dak Prescott 

Justin Herbert

Jalen Hurts

Aaron Rogers 

 

 

The only one I’d swap is Goff instead of the lower guys.  He gets very little recognition, but he’s quietly had a heck of a couple of seasons while in Detroit.

[eball]

Mahomes and Allen are 1a and 1b, followed by Burrow, Lamar, Dak, Purdy, Goff, Stafford, Herbert, Lawrence, Love, Stroud, Tua, and Cousins. The last 5 of those you can probably throw in a hat for the order. 
 

[UKBillFan]

Mahomes

Josh

Burrow

Stroud

Jackson

Love

Stafford

Goff

Cousins

Purdy/Prescott/Herbert - perhaps just Herbert but tough to choose between those three

[Alphadawg7]

6 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

He has certainly not shown to be good at selecting QB's, nor grooming or developing them. BUT, and this is what I believe Firechans is saying, Shannahan's offensive scheme makes average, or limited QB's look better than they actually are. He needs a QB who's fairly cerebral and can operate under strict timing constraints. If they have those traits, they can thrive in a Shannahan scheme. In no world is Brock close to the elite QB's in the NFL. And that's ok, because heck, they're still in the super bowl!

 

I get all that, but what I don't get is what QB's did Shannahan actually make look good?  Schaub was a product of Kubiak and there before Kyle and played at the same level once Kyle was gone.  Then he was fired as an OC in Washington and lasted one season in Cleveland.  Then he joined Matt Ryan for 2 seasons in the middle of Ryans career who was arguably top 5 QB when Kyle arrived.  Ryan won an MVP award, but he also replicated almost exactly his MVP season 2 years after Kyle left.  In SF, what QB played above their level?  Beathard stunk, Mullens stunk, Jimmy G was the same QB he was when he came in week 11 via trade as he was the day he left for Oakland, and Lance was a failure.

 

So I guess that is where I differ than others.  I see the "Kyle makes QBs better" statement as a bit of an over exaggeration.  Only success he had with QB's are with 2 QB's who had the same success without him.  

 

Plus, I don't get how people call it Kyles system, the whole team is really built around John Lynch's style of defense and pounding the ball.  Kyle wants to throw the ball, and so badly that he kept doing so much in the SB against the Pats that they threw there way our of a SB win with those incomplete passes saving so much clock for NE to have enough time to comeback.  And if you ask a Niner fan, they feel Kyle blew it trying to force the passing game against KC when SF lost to them in the SB.  

 

Purdy is really his first real success story, and it is a significant one.  So I just think Purdy isn't getting enough credit for the things he has done so well because there is a mystique around Shannahan that I don't think is really that accurate.  I think he is a good HC, and he is doing great with what Lynch has given him.  But I just don't think this narrative that Purdy is only succeeding because of "Shannahans system" is fair to Purdy nor that accurate.  

 

[34-78-83]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get all that, but what I don't get is what QB's did Shannahan actually make look good?  Schaub was a product of Kubiak and there before Kyle and played at the same level once Kyle was gone.  Then he was fired as an OC in Washington and lasted one season in Cleveland.  Then he joined Matt Ryan for 2 seasons in the middle of Ryans career who was arguably top 5 QB when Kyle arrived.  Ryan won an MVP award, but he also replicated almost exactly his MVP season 2 years after Kyle left.  In SF, what QB played above their level?  Beathard stunk, Mullens stunk, Jimmy G was the same QB he was when he came in week 11 via trade as he was the day he left for Oakland, and Lance was a failure.

 

So I guess that is where I differ than others.  I see the "Kyle makes QBs better" statement as a bit of an over exaggeration.  Only success he had with QB's are with 2 QB's who had the same success without him.  

 

Plus, I don't get how people call it Kyles system, the whole team is really built around John Lynch's style of defense and pounding the ball.  Kyle wants to throw the ball, and so badly that he kept doing so much in the SB against the Pats that they threw there way our of a SB win with those incomplete passes saving so much clock for NE to have enough time to comeback.  And if you ask a Niner fan, they feel Kyle blew it trying to force the passing game against KC when SF lost to them in the SB.  

 

Purdy is really his first real success story, and it is a significant one.  So I just think Purdy isn't getting enough credit for the things he has done so well because there is a mystique around Shannahan that I don't think is really that accurate.  I think he is a good HC, and he is doing great with what Lynch has given him.  But I just don't think this narrative that Purdy is only succeeding because of "Shannahans system" is fair to Purdy nor that accurate.  

 

I think that's all fair and essentially what I am saying. Purdy is better than Jimmy G yes, but even so, the Shannahan scheme makes every QB that plays in it look statistically better than they actually are (as long as they are smart processors and good on a timing based offense)... some more than others in this case. Purdy is pretty darn good but he doesn't hold a candle to the top 6 to 10 freaks in this league at the position.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, 34-78-83 said:

I think that's all fair and essentially what I am saying. Purdy is better than Jimmy G yes, but even so, the Shannahan scheme makes every QB that plays in it look statistically better than they actually are (as long as they are smart processors and good on a timing based offense)... some more than others in this case. Purdy is pretty darn good but he doesn't hold a candle to the top 6 to 10 freaks in this league at the position.

 

Dont get me wrong, I am not ready to say he is better than some of the more proven studs in the league, but I do think he deserves more respect than he gets.  

 

For me, its the eyeball test.  I watch every Niner game as my wife is a die hard Niner fan.  I feel like Purdy's bigger crticics doubt him more on assumptions rather than watching his full games.  I feel like they assume Shannahan is creating easy short throws and that the guys catching the ball do all the work.  But its just not accurate when you watch the games, Purdy is really throwing some dimes out there, pushes the ball downfield (insane 9.6 ypa on the season), has incredible poise, plays tough as nails, plays with great instincts and feel for the game, etc.  

 

But thats the fun of a debate like this...its early, so easy to see both sides.  I am not ready to crown him the next great QB either, but I also do feel like he should get more credit than he has gotten from people just assuming its all Shannahan.

[34-78-83]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont get me wrong, I am not ready to say he is better than some of the more proven studs in the league, but I do think he deserves more respect than he gets.  

 

For me, its the eyeball test.  I watch every Niner game as my wife is a die hard Niner fan.  I feel like Purdy's bigger crticics doubt him more on assumptions rather than watching his full games.  I feel like they assume Shannahan is creating easy short throws and that the guys catching the ball do all the work.  But its just not accurate when you watch the games, Purdy is really throwing some dimes out there, pushes the ball downfield (insane 9.6 ypa on the season), has incredible poise, plays tough as nails, plays with great instincts and feel for the game, etc.  

 

But thats the fun of a debate like this...its early, so easy to see both sides.  I am not ready to crown him the next great QB either, but I also do feel like he should get more credit than he has gotten from people just assuming its all Shannahan.

I can see the skills for sure. I'd say I watched probably 4 full games for the Niners this season. I was really just trying to give a take on what I thought Firechans main point was...

 

The truth is often in the middle regarding extreme takes in one direction or another.

Edited January 30 by 34-78-83

[FireChans]

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get all that, but what I don't get is what QB's did Shannahan actually make look good?  Schaub was a product of Kubiak and there before Kyle and played at the same level once Kyle was gone.  Then he was fired as an OC in Washington and lasted one season in Cleveland.  Then he joined Matt Ryan for 2 seasons in the middle of Ryans career who was arguably top 5 QB when Kyle arrived.  Ryan won an MVP award, but he also replicated almost exactly his MVP season 2 years after Kyle left.  In SF, what QB played above their level?  Beathard stunk, Mullens stunk, Jimmy G was the same QB he was when he came in week 11 via trade as he was the day he left for Oakland, and Lance was a failure.

 

So I guess that is where I differ than others.  I see the "Kyle makes QBs better" statement as a bit of an over exaggeration.  Only success he had with QB's are with 2 QB's who had the same success without him.  

 

Plus, I don't get how people call it Kyles system, the whole team is really built around John Lynch's style of defense and pounding the ball.  Kyle wants to throw the ball, and so badly that he kept doing so much in the SB against the Pats that they threw there way our of a SB win with those incomplete passes saving so much clock for NE to have enough time to comeback.  And if you ask a Niner fan, they feel Kyle blew it trying to force the passing game against KC when SF lost to them in the SB.  

 

Purdy is really his first real success story, and it is a significant one.  So I just think Purdy isn't getting enough credit for the things he has done so well because there is a mystique around Shannahan that I don't think is really that accurate.  I think he is a good HC, and he is doing great with what Lynch has given him.  But I just don't think this narrative that Purdy is only succeeding because of "Shannahans system" is fair to Purdy nor that accurate.  

 

I answered this.

[Dan in Owego]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont get me wrong, I am not ready to say he is better than some of the more proven studs in the league, but I do think he deserves more respect than he gets.  

 

For me, its the eyeball test.  I watch every Niner game as my wife is a die hard Niner fan.  I feel like Purdy's bigger crticics doubt him more on assumptions rather than watching his full games.  I feel like they assume Shannahan is creating easy short throws and that the guys catching the ball do all the work.  But its just not accurate when you watch the games, Purdy is really throwing some dimes out there, pushes the ball downfield (insane 9.6 ypa on the season), has incredible poise, plays tough as nails, plays with great instincts and feel for the game, etc.  

 

But thats the fun of a debate like this...its early, so easy to see both sides.  I am not ready to crown him the next great QB either, but I also do feel like he should get more credit than he has gotten from people just assuming its all Shannahan.

It's when he started using his legs that my eyes opened up, he will have to use it all against this chiefs defense for them to have a chance.

[bobobonators]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:44 PM, 78thealltimegreat said:

There isn’t a right or wrong answer just was curious as the top 4 seems pretty set in stone

Patrick 

Josh

Lamar 

Joey B

after that you can throw names in a hat Id go 

Matt Stafford

Dak Prescott 

Justin Herbert

Jalen Hurts

Aaron Rogers 

 

 

Mahomes

Josh Allen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everyone else.  

[ganesh]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:24 AM, MrEpsYtown said:

I think its tiers…
 

Josh Lamar Mahomes and Burrow are their own tier imo.

 

Then it’s Herbert (he’s close to those guys and will get there with Harbaugh)

 

Then its guys like Hurts, Stafford, Dak…Goff had a great year. 

 

Then young guys who are on their way, Lawrence, Stroud, Love

 

Then its mid Tua, Purdy, Baker Mayfield…

 

And old guys who were elite Rodgers, Wilson. 
 

And old guys who were meh Carr, Cousins etc.

 

All my opinions. 

Tua and Purdy had great seasons and should be at the minimum in Tier-2 if not Tier-1.   I think Mahomes is in his own world until otherwise proven.   

[stuvian]

1. Mahomes
2. Hurts
3. Burrow
4. Allen
5. Jackson
6. Stroud
7. Love
8. Stafford
9. Mayfield
10. Watson

Advancing in the playoffs has to mean something. Sorry but Rodgers, Wilson, Carr, and Cousins are done.

 

Prescott and Herbert are one and done pretenders. Goff was carried by his team, not the other way around. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:51 PM, chongli said:

 

Winston? Seriously? How many games did he start this year?

Winston can play.  He may not have started any.  But I watched him play mid season at Minnesota.  He isn't great.  But he understands the game, is a leader and isn't afraid to whip it around the yard.  For whatever reason Dennis Allen and the Saints have not given him the chance to start.  They went w Andy Dalton two years ago, and brought in Derrick Carr this past year.  I like Winston better then both.  But that's just me.  We all have our personal preferences.  Its like liking different ice cream flavors or ladies.  

[saundena]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:54 PM, MrEpsYtown said:

I think its tiers…
 

Josh Lamar Mahomes and Burrow are their own tier imo.

 

Then it’s Herbert (he’s close to those guys and will get there with Harbaugh)

 

Then its guys like Hurts, Stafford, Dak…Goff had a great year. 

 

Then young guys who are on their way, Lawrence, Stroud, Love

 

Then its mid Tua, Purdy, Baker Mayfield…

 

And old guys who were elite Rodgers, Wilson. 
 

And old guys who were meh Carr, Cousins etc.

 

All my opinions. 

I like tiers too, but have a few quibbles.

 

Mahomes Josh And Burrow are tier 1 because they can take over games on their own when the going gets tough.  For that reason, I can't include Lamar in this tier. But believe he belongs with Herbert in tier 2

 

Based on recent performance, I'd move Stroud and Love up one to tier 3.  

 

I want to put Baker higher.  I think he's very talented but just saddled with a bunch of unfortunate circumstances throughout his career.  I think Baker gets the Dolphins farther that Tua does.

 

Edit:  Lawrence is the most overrated QB in the league and for that he should be in his own category

Edited January 31 by saundena

[MJS]

1) Pat Mahomes

2) Josh Allen

3) Joe Burrow

4) Lamar Jackson

5) Justin Herbert

6) Brock Purdy

7) Dak Prescott

8 ) Matthew Stafford

9) Jalen Hurts

10) Tua Tagovailoa

 

There's a big drop off after the top 4. But I think there is a significant difference between Lamar Jackson and the top 3 as well. I also struggle to put Justin Herbert that high, but I'd rather have him as my QB than anyone under him.

 

Honorable mentions are Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, and Jordan Love (love can really vault up the list next year with another strong year). Same with CJ Stroud.

Edited January 31 by MJS

[TheBrownBear]

Tier 1A:

Mahomes

Burrow 

Allen

 

Tier 1B:

Herbert

Jackson

 

Tier 2A:

Purdy

Hurts 

Stroud (maybe too high, but he looks ascendant) 

 

Tier 2B:

Goff

Stafford

Cousins

Prescott

Tua

Lawrence

 

Tier 3:

Mayfield 

Love

Kyler Murray

 

Tier 4:

Wilson

Carr

Fields

 

I've left off Rodgers since I have no clue what he really is at this point.  I see him as more of a Tier 2B guy going forward.

 

 

[MJS]

24 minutes ago, saundena said:

I like tiers too, but have a few quibbles.

 

Mahomes Josh And Burrow are tier 1 because they can take over games on their own when the going gets tough.  For that reason, I can't include Lamar in this tier. But believe he belongs with Herbert in tier 2

 

Based on recent performance, I'd move Stroud and Love up one to tier 3.  

 

I want to put Baker higher.  I think he's very talented but just saddled with a bunch of unfortunate circumstances throughout his career.  I think Baker gets the Dolphins farther that Tua does.

Baker Mayfield is interesting. He is talented and has that it factor at times, but he also has a tendency to make the big mistake when it matters.

 

The NFL actually has a lot of QB talent today. I remember about 8 to 10 years ago or so being a little worried about QB talent with all the old greats like Manning, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees still elite, but not really any young talent coming up under them. I worried what the game would look like when those guys started to retire. But, there is a lot of talent today, although fewer slam dunk elite guys.

[Matt_In_NH]

Where is minshew the pro bowler?

[GASabresIUFan]

I’m not sure how people have Stroud significantly over Love.  Both were 1st yr starters.  Both lead their teams to the playoffs and their stats are similar with a slight edge to Love

 

Love - 64.2% 4159 yards 32 TDs 11 Ints QBR-62.1

Stroud - 63.9% 4108 yards 23 TDs 5 Ints QBR-57.4

 

I really like both guys, but to me they are pretty close.  Stroud is a few years younger, but I think the sky is the limit for both players.  

[prissythecat]

14 hours ago, stuvian said:

1. Mahomes
2. Hurts
3. Burrow
4. Allen
5. Jackson
6. Stroud
7. Love
8. Stafford
9. Mayfield
10. Watson

Advancing in the playoffs has to mean something. Sorry but Rodgers, Wilson, Carr, and Cousins are done.

 

Prescott and Herbert are one and done pretenders. Goff was carried by his team, not the other way around. 

 

 

If Goff was carried by his team,  what was going on with Hurts this season compared to last?