Double dip at receiver?

[whorlnut]

4 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

There is no way we trade up with all the holes we need to fill on the roster and our limited cap space. It’s actually a lot more likely we trade down and grab more picks.

Based off of what?  We are talking about a GM that has only NOT traded up once since he’s been here. Bottom line is if Beane sees a guy he wants he will go get him. 

8 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Harrison, Nabers, Odunze are the 3 that most mock drafts indicate will be the first 3 off the board, and are the consensus best prospects.  Obviously that doesn't mean that they'll be the best players, but they are the Chase/Waddle/Smith group at the top of the class.  

Agree, but if you told me we could have guys like Brian Thomas, Ja’Lynn Polk, Troy Franklin, or Emeka Egbuka when we draft, then I’ll be happy. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

There is no way we trade up with all the holes we need to fill on the roster and our limited cap space. It’s actually a lot more likely we trade down and grab more picks.

 

Free agency will fill out some holes. I think with limited budget and our losing so many veteran contributors - i expect them to add 2 safeties in free agency.  I'd also think DQ comes back.  It's probably the time to stop putting the same band back together though - so i don't expect lawson, phillips, hyde, poyer, and probably tre to return.  Douglas makes it a lot easier to lose tre.  Defensive line is expensive, even 1T guys are getting paid lately.  But after the initial blitz there you can find some value (thats how we ended up with Floyd).  

[machine gun kelly]

I’m down with Jeremy and taking two WR’s along with a safety or two.  Extend the contracts that are needed.

[JohnNord]

16 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I’m really hoping Beane takes a WR in the first round this year and would then like to see another taken in round 2 if they are rated high on our board. We did this with Rousseau and Basham when we needed someone to get after Mahomes. Why can’t we do it again for our franchise qb?  
 

Go hard at the position and give yourself the best shot possible at finding another top receiver. These guys could end up being WR1 and WR2 after Diggs leaves. I love the idea of rookie contracts, with one having the fifth year option. This is a passing league and if we hit on one, that gives Allen Kincaid and the new guy for at least 4 years on rookie deals. If we hit on both, then all the better. 

I’m good with this… the Bills have never spent a premium asset to draft a wide receiver and I’m pretty sure that changes this season - especially given Diggs’ age and contract.  In fact, I’m pretty sure they restructured Diggs’ deal with this move in mind.  They are confident he’ll perform at a high level for at least 1 season - maybe longer.  With Diggs (and Shakir to a lesser extent), it allows the new WR to contribute as a rookie without being “the guy”

 

Some have theorized that in a year or two a lot of the passing game will be run through Kincaid - the way it has in Kansas CIty with Kelce.  But the more good receivers the better. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Based off of what?  We are talking about a GM that has only NOT traded up once since he’s been here. Bottom line is if Beane sees a guy he wants he will go get him. 

Agree, but if you told me we could have guys like Brian Thomas, Ja’Lynn Polk, Troy Franklin, or Emeka Egbuka when we draft, then I’ll be happy. 

I'm usually a BPA type - stick to your board.  There are obviously limits - I don't think RBs, TEs, OG's, Safeties, and LBs are usually worth 1st round picks unless they are players you project as all-pro's.  Value you can get on QB/WR/DE/DT/CB/OT 5yr rookie deals is too good to pass up since those are the most expensive positions to fill.  

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

I’m down with Jeremy and taking two WR’s along with a safety or two.  Extend the contracts that are needed.

The move I like is signing Kyle Duggar or Jeremy Chinn in FA.  They might be able to get by with Cam Lewis as the other safety

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

I’m good with this… the Bills have never spent a premium asset to draft a wide receiver and I’m pretty sure that changes this season - especially given Diggs’ age and contract.  In fact, I’m pretty sure they restructured Diggs’ deal with this move in mind.  They are confident he’ll perform at a high level for at least 1 season - maybe longer.  With Diggs (and Shakir to a lesser extent), it allows the new WR to contribute as a rookie without being “the guy”

 

Some have theorized that in a year or two a lot of the passing game will be run through Kincaid - the way it has in Kansas CIty with Kelce.  But the more good receivers the better. 

 

I think Diggs can and will move into a primarily slot WR role and do quite well into his 30s.  

[JohnNord]

Just now, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

I'm usually a BPA type - stick to your board.  There are obviously limits - I don't think RBs, TEs, OG's, Safeties, and LBs are usually worth 1st round picks unless they are players you project as all-pro's.  Value you can get on QB/WR/DE/DT/CB/OT 5yr rookie deals is too good to pass up since those are the most expensive positions to fill.  

It’s never BPA…it’s always “BPA determined by need.”

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

It’s never BPA…it’s always “BPA determined by need.”

 

It tends to fall that way - but if you have some guy that you had as a top 15 pick and its late in the first - i don't know that i care that much unless he's a QB.  If we can get a valuable player at WR/DE/DT/CB/OT that you project as a pro-bowl caliber player and a star, you should get that player.  

[GustheDog33]

12 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

And how many teams scored 35 PPG this season? Guess who has the best record in the league? Surprise the team with the best defense.

The Ravens and the 49ers are in the top 7 for points scored in the First and Second Quarters.  That, to me, means they are playing with the lead.  Playing with lead puts pressure on opposing offenses to try for chunk plays, which means they are running plays with lower success rates and are more predictable.  Those things allow defenses to feast and will allow average defenders to be "better" because they know they are playing the Pass.  The best way to win in Football, regardless of the level, is to put as many points on the board as possible and force the other team to throw it on every down.

[JaCrispy]

I wanna trade up into the top 12 for LSU’s Malik Nabers, similar to what Atlanta did for Julio Jones…

 

I wouldn’t mind giving up our 3nd rounder and a mid round pick plus our 1st rounder…

 

edit: I would give up our 2nd rounder instead of our 3rd

Edited January 3 by JaCrispy

[DrDawkinstein]

49 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Definitely not, huh?  Even though there is a precedent with Beane when he identifies a weakness?

 

I'm not saying he definitely won't. I'm saying he definitely shouldn't.

 

And given he went Elam in the 1st and Benford in the 5th in 2022, I'm hoping he has learned his lesson with the way Boogie busted.

24 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

The move I like is signing Kyle Duggar or Jeremy Chinn in FA.  They might be able to get by with Cam Lewis as the other safety

 

Kyle Duggar was a Beane guy, and we know Beane loves locking on and chasing players, so I could see that. I'd be good with that.

[DapperCam]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I wanna trade up into the top 12 for LSU’s Malik Nabers, similar to what Atlanta did for Julio Jones…

 

I wouldn’t mind giving up our 3nd rounder and a mid round pick plus our 1st rounder…

Trading up from a 1st round pick at the end of the draft to the top 10 (where Nabers is probably gonna go) is going to cost a lot more than a 1st, 3rd and 5th. Try our first this year and next year’s first.

[Beck Water]

17 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I’m really hoping Beane takes a WR in the first round this year and would then like to see another taken in round 2 if they are rated high on our board. We did this with Rousseau and Basham when we needed someone to get after Mahomes. Why can’t we do it again for our franchise qb?  
 

Go hard at the position and give yourself the best shot possible at finding another top receiver. These guys could end up being WR1 and WR2 after Diggs leaves. I love the idea of rookie contracts, with one having the fifth year option. This is a passing league and if we hit on one, that gives Allen Kincaid and the new guy for at least 4 years on rookie deals. If we hit on both, then all the better. 

 

Didn't the Bills do something similar in 2021 when they drafted Rousseau in Round 1 and Basham in Round 2? 

 

They decided after the season that their #1 priority was to "affect the opposing QB" so they went with a high ceiling/low floor guy Round 1 and doubled down with a guy regarded as more of a solid prospect (higher floor/lower ceiling) in Round 2.

 

Later that decision was highly criticized (by me among others) as neglecting other positions such as OL.   The bandwagon on that POV filled up suddenly when Beane raised the white flag and traded Basham to the Giants for along with the swap of a bag of used footballs for a bag of sweaty gym socks.

 

The fact is, top contributors can be found in all rounds - look at Elam (round 1) vs Benford (round 6) so while I agree on investing a high pick and doubling down, I don't think a 1-2 punch is necessarily the best strategy

Edited January 3 by Beck Water

[DrDawkinstein]

9 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Trading up from a 1st round pick at the end of the draft to the top 10 (where Nabers is probably gonna go) is going to cost a lot more than a 1st, 3rd and 5th. Try our first this year and next year’s first.

 

For a WR in a WR-rich draft...

 

Doug Whaley called, he said to think twice!

 

Stay where we are. Grab someone like Egbuka or Legette in the 1st, and then dip back in for a Jermaine Burton in the 4th/5th.

[JohnNord]

30 minutes ago, GustheDog33 said:

The Ravens and the 49ers are in the top 7 for points scored in the First and Second Quarters.  That, to me, means they are playing with the lead.  Playing with lead puts pressure on opposing offenses to try for chunk plays, which means they are running plays with lower success rates and are more predictable.  Those things allow defenses to feast and will allow average defenders to be "better" because they know they are playing the Pass.  The best way to win in Football, regardless of the level, is to put as many points on the board as possible and force the other team to throw it on every down.

100% but on a tangent, this is why I think you need to be careful to just assume that Baltimore and San Francisco are going to have an easy path into the Super Bowl.  
 

They aren’t always going to get out to big lead.    San Francisco and Dallas are great examples of this.  Both teams looked unstoppable… and they then they fell behind to BUF and BAL and struggled mightily.  
 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'm not saying he definitely won't. I'm saying he definitely shouldn't.

 

And given he went Elam in the 1st and Benford in the 5th in 2022, I'm hoping he has learned his lesson with the way Boogie busted.

 

Kyle Duggar was a Beane guy, and we know Beane loves locking on and chasing players, so I could see that. I'd be good with that.

I think they really liked Jeremy Chinn as well.  I think either of those two would do in awesome in Buffalo. 

[GustheDog33]

Just now, JohnNord said:

100% but on a tangent, this is why I think you need to be careful to just assume that Baltimore and San Francisco are going to have an easy path into the Super Bowl.  
 

They aren’t always going to get out to big lead.    San Francisco and Dallas are great examples of this.  Both teams looked unstoppable… and they then they fell behind to BUF and BAL and struggled mightily.  
 

 

 

 

For sure, and solidifies the point.  The best way to win is to get the lead and grow it.  Even great teams with tons of weapons have to be predictable and struggle.

[JohnNord]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For a WR in a WR-rich draft...

 

Doug Whaley called, he said to think twice!

 

Stay where we are. Grab someone like Egbuka or Legette in the 1st, and then dip back in for a Jermaine Burton in the 4th/5th.

This is a real good point.  How about Polk from Washington?  He seems to be trending upward.  Might even be able to get him at the top of R2

[Beck Water]

24 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I wanna trade up into the top 12 for LSU’s Malik Nabers, similar to what Atlanta did for Julio Jones…

 

I wouldn’t mind giving up our 3nd rounder and a mid round pick plus our 1st rounder…

 

We already gave up a 3rd rounder for Rasul Douglas.  I'm not clear on which that was, but if you're talking comp pick for Edmunds, I don't think a comp pick (>96 in the 3rd round) plus a "mid rounder" gets you from wherever we finish (mid-20's?) to top 12.

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

This is a real good point.  How about Polk from Washington?  He seems to be trending upward.  Might even be able to get him at the top of R2

 

I'm not against Polk, there are a lot of guys I could like as our 2nd WR drafted. But I'd rather not go WR in the 1st and 2nd. It isnt even a top need compared to DT, DE, and Safety. I could even see them taking a Safety in the 1st (Cooper Dejean) then a WR in the 2nd and maybe another WR later.

 

I'd rather walk away from this draft with only 1 WR taken (in the 1st) than draft another in the 2nd.

 

 

[Malazan]

17 hours ago, The Cincinnati Kid said:

Just look at the Bengals. Had Boyd and drafted Tee. Had Boyd and Tee and then drafted Chase. Those three with Joey B have been awesome.  Just keep picking them high.

 

Maybe they should spent one of those on offensive line and they'd still have Burrow throwing to those guys.

[DJB]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

And I disagree-  Winning super bowls is the ONLY thing that matters.  If one team wins one and the other doesn’t-  it’s clear who the winner is.  
 

we see this in a different light.  That’s cool. Agree to disagree. 

But that’s not generally how trades are evaluated especially since it’s a team sport. 
 

But everyone has their own opinion 

1 hour ago, DapperCam said:

There is no way we trade up with all the holes we need to fill on the roster and our limited cap space. It’s actually a lot more likely we trade down and grab more picks.

I understand that rationale but we are so close to a SB birth. We need to go for it sometimes and get a bigger piece 

 

We are a minor Diggs injury away from being screwed on offense 

Edited January 3 by DJB

[The Jokeman]

53 minutes ago, GustheDog33 said:

The Ravens and the 49ers are in the top 7 for points scored in the First and Second Quarters.  That, to me, means they are playing with the lead.  Playing with lead puts pressure on opposing offenses to try for chunk plays, which means they are running plays with lower success rates and are more predictable.  Those things allow defenses to feast and will allow average defenders to be "better" because they know they are playing the Pass.  The best way to win in Football, regardless of the level, is to put as many points on the board as possible and force the other team to throw it on every down.

So I'm guessing you'd advocate that the Bills take Jerry Rice instead of Bruce Smith #1 overall in 1985? cause you know our offense wasn't good enough in the 90s because we had a inferior WR that got in the 4th Round of that same draft named Andre Reed. 

[GustheDog33]

7 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

Maybe they should spent one of those on offensive line and they'd still have Burrow throwing to those guys.

Maybe.  He hurt his wrist in a non-contact and clean pocket situation, so maybe.  They have drafted 5 OL after drafting Burrow.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

49 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I wanna trade up into the top 12 for LSU’s Malik Nabers, similar to what Atlanta did for Julio Jones…

 

I wouldn’t mind giving up our 3nd rounder and a mid round pick plus our 1st rounder…

That kid is incredible. Tall, fast, contested catches, great body control.....just in love with his skill set. 

[whorlnut]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'm not against Polk, there are a lot of guys I could like as our 2nd WR drafted. But I'd rather not go WR in the 1st and 2nd. It isnt even a top need compared to DT, DE, and Safety. I could even see them taking a Safety in the 1st (Cooper Dejean) then a WR in the 2nd and maybe another WR later.

 

I'd rather walk away from this draft with only 1 WR taken (in the 1st) than draft another in the 2nd.

 

 

Wow. So much wrong here. It isn’t our top need compared to DT, DE, and safety?  Have you been watching the games or listening to the national media?

[GustheDog33]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

So I'm guessing you'd advocate that the Bills take Jerry Rice instead of Bruce Smith #1 overall in 1985? cause you know our offense wasn't good enough in the 90s because we had a inferior WR that got in the 4th Round of that same draft named Andre Reed. 

Different game in '85.  it isn't a clean comparison.  Rice and Smith are both all-time greats at their position, but the rules were different then than they are now.  

[whorlnut]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

So I'm guessing you'd advocate that the Bills take Jerry Rice instead of Bruce Smith #1 overall in 1985? cause you know our offense wasn't good enough in the 90s because we had a inferior WR that got in the 4th Round of that same draft named Andre Reed. 

You understand that the nfl in the 80’s was a different game right?  The league was more of a defensive league at that point. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I have to say, this WR class is the best I can remember. There's 5 or 6 guys I'd take over my favorite (Malachi Corley). 

Second, what a huge swing and a miss on Harty.

We knew Sherfield was a middle of the road guy but Harty was supposed to be this amazing underutilized talent with elite separation agility. Smh.

[DrDawkinstein]

18 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Wow. So much wrong here. It isn’t our top need compared to DT, DE, and safety?  Have you been watching the games or listening to the national media?

 

Pass Catchers Under Contract in 2024:

1. Diggs

2.

3. Kincaid

4. Shakir

5. Cook

6. Knox

 

DEs Under Contract in 2024:

1.

2. Rousseau

3.

4. Von Miller

5.

6. Jonathan

 

DTs Under Contract in 2024:

1. Ed Oliver

2.

3.

4.

 

Safeties Returning in 2024:

1.

2.

3.

4. Cam Lewis

5. Hamlin

 

Classic TBD where anyone who asks "dO yOu EvEn WaTcH tHe GaMeS?" shows they have no point. Yeah, I've watched us win numerous games where Gabe Davis had 0 catches for 0 yards.

 

We have no starting DE, we have no rotation. We have no starting 1-Techs, we have no DT rotation. Both Safeties will/should be gone.

 

 

 

Edited January 3 by DrDawkinstein

[NewEra]

31 minutes ago, DJB said:

But that’s not generally how trades are evaluated especially since it’s a team sport. 
 

But everyone has their own opinion 

I understand that rationale but we are so close to a SB birth. We need to go for it sometimes and get a bigger piece 

 

We are a minor Diggs injury away from being screwed on offense 

According to whom?  I think it’s the only way to evaluate a trade imo.  The only thing that matters is winning super bowls.  If a trade helps one team get over the top and win a Super Bowl, while the other doesn’t, there’s always a clear winner in my eyes.  Having great players means nothing if you don’t win.  In this case- Jefferson’s has 4 years in the league with zero playoff wins.    

[whorlnut]

14 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Pass Catchers Under Contract in 2024:

1. Diggs

2.

3. Kincaid

4. Shakir

5. Cook

6. Knox

 

DEs Under Contract in 2024:

1.

2. Rousseau

3.

4. Von Miller

5.

6. Jonathan

 

DTs Under Contract in 2024:

1. Ed Oliver

2.

3.

4.

 

Safeties Returning in 2024:

1.

2.

3.

4. Cam Lewis

5. Hamlin

 

Classic TBD where anyone who asks "dO yOu EvEn WaTcH tHe GaMeS?" shows they have no point. Yeah, I've watched us win numerous games where Gabe Davis had 0 catches for 0 yards.

 

We have no starting DE, we have no rotation. We have no starting 1-Techs, we have no DT rotation. Both Safeties will/should be gone.

 

 

 

gReAt pOsT cHaMp…you understand we can resign some guys like Jones and Floyd and fill holes on defense in FA right?

 

besides…if you’ve watched the games then you saw guys filling in just fine on defense and we still wOn GaMeS.
 

The point of this thread was the wr position, but thanks for your invaluable two cents. 

Edited January 3 by whorlnut

[brianthomas]

I think we can learn some lessons from Green Bay & their time with Aaron Rodgers & I fear we're making the same mistakes they did assembling teams.

Whether you like Aaron or not, he was a Super Bowl winning QB. Josh Allen is that same type of talent.

The problem with Green Bay looking back at it is they never made a concerted effort to surround Aaron with enough top notch playmakers.

Look at their draft history after Aaron:

2006 rd2 #20 Greg Jennings
2007 rd3 #14 James Jones
2008 rd2 #5 Jordy Nelson
2011 rd2 #32 Randall Cobb
2014 rd2 #21 Davante Adams

It wasn't until 2014, 9 years after they drafted Rodgers where they finally found their playmaking wr & one could argue they lucked into him.

If you look at our drafting of wr's, it seems to be following the same trend as GB. Not addressing the wr position with any sense of urgency & taking chances on wr's later in the draft.

This is a throwing league now, it makes sense to prioritize wr's moreso than this. I hope we don't waste Josh's career here like GB wasted Rodgers. At least in Aaron's case he won a ring. Only thing we've won is this post i guess lol.

[DJB]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

According to whom?  I think it’s the only way to evaluate a trade imo.  The only thing that matters is winning super bowls.  If a trade helps one team get over the top and win a Super Bowl, while the other doesn’t, there’s always a clear winner in my eyes.  Having great players means nothing if you don’t win.  In this case- Jefferson’s has 4 years in the league with zero playoff wins.    

Seems pretty closed minded of you.

 

Generally speaking on message boards, twitter any platform the players are evaluated on a number of items to determine the winner of the trade including but not solely on SB’s.

 

 

IMO you are in the minority on this one man

[DapperCam]

I would actually be in favor of signing a UFA WR or trading for one, and filling in the defense with draft picks (especially if Beane can do some cap magic to kick the can down the road). We could be picking 24 or later in the draft (if we make it to the divisional round). If you look at the WR taken around there the past few years not a lot have made a huge impact their rookie seasons (assuming the goal is to have improved WR productivity next season):

2023
20: Jaxon Smith-Njigba
21: Quentin Johnston
22: Zay Flowers
23: Jordan Addison
39: Jonathan Mingo

2022
18: Treylon Burks

34: Christian Watson

2021
20: Kadarius Toney
27: Rashod Bateman
34: Elijah Moore

There are zero 1k yard rookie seasons on this list (I guess we'll see after next week, but likely not). JSN, Flowers and Addison have had the best rookie seasons of the bunch and the rest have been nothing special. So a 30% success rate over this smallish sample size. No difference makers were selected 24 or later. I guess if we miss the playoffs or lose in the wild card round, then the chances of getting a real difference maker increases.

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Because he's not even on an NFL 53 man roster?     If he makes your top 6 out of camp next year either something went very wrong or he had a huge career shift.  

 

There are always "futures" contract signings.........but the likes of Andy Isabella, Tyrell Shavers and Bryan Thompson chances of making the 53 and sticking........let alone making any notable impact.........should be considered very small.

 

Reality is that they could end up with only Diggs and Shakir as WR under contract heading into March who have played regularly in the NFL. 

 

I'm only suggesting that Isabella could be retained, simply because there will be fewer WR's on the roster during the off season.

Also, what is the harm? If anything, you have a veteran player who knows the system, and getting a shot in training camp. That's all.

[JerseyBills]

Wouldn't double dip but would like 1 in rd 1 or 2, Cautiously optimistic Shorter can have a big role next year and Shakir should be a starter. Get a rookie in draft and a vet in FA

[NewEra]

33 minutes ago, DJB said:

Seems pretty closed minded of you.

 

Generally speaking on message boards, twitter any platform the players are evaluated on a number of items to determine the winner of the trade including but not solely on SB’s.

 

 

IMO you are in the minority on this one man

Winning super bowls is the only thing that matters.  Those that disagree are clueless.  Yes, I’m closed minded in this situation 

[JerseyBills]

22 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

I would actually be in favor of signing a UFA WR or trading for one, and filling in the defense with draft picks (especially if Beane can do some cap magic to kick the can down the road). We could be picking 24 or later in the draft (if we make it to the divisional round). If you look at the WR taken around there the past few years not a lot have made a huge impact their rookie seasons (assuming the goal is to have improved WR productivity next season):

2023
20: Jaxon Smith-Njigba
21: Quentin Johnston
22: Zay Flowers
23: Jordan Addison
39: Jonathan Mingo

2022
18: Treylon Burks

34: Christian Watson

2021
20: Kadarius Toney
27: Rashod Bateman
34: Elijah Moore

There are zero 1k yard rookie seasons on this list (I guess we'll see after next week, but likely not). JSN, Flowers and Addison have had the best rookie seasons of the bunch and the rest have been nothing special. So a 30% success rate over this smallish sample size. No difference makers were selected 24 or later. I guess if we miss the playoffs or lose in the wild card round, then the chances of getting a real difference maker increases.

Puka and Jaylen Reed last draft? Big impacts

[DapperCam]

18 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Puka and Jaylen Reed last draft? Big impacts

The premise of this thread is spending a first and second round pick on a WR. It's just a real crap-shoot on what you will get unless you are picking top 10-15. If the goal is take our passing offense to the next level UFA is a much safer path (the cap is going to make it difficult though). Odds are, any drafted WR where we will have draft picks will not outperform Gabe Davis from this year.