Bill from NYC Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 53 minutes ago, Process said: I'm sure Spencer Brown will be relieved to hear this. I have taken RT off my list of needs for next year. He has been a very pleasant surprise and I think the bills should be and will be comfortable with him as their starting RT going forward. Having our entire starting o line for 2024 on the team and under contract is very nice. Yes the OL looked excellent. I am still strongly for trying to bolster and add depth to it via the draft. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Albany,n.y. said: It's so easy to get a good LT, just like it was to replace Howard Ballard at RT years ago. Just hit speed dial & get the next Jerry Crafts. Again. That’s where we differ. You obviously think Dawkins is very good. I think he’s average for a LT and replaceable. Especially for the contract he’s going to expect 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, mrags said: Again. That’s where we differ. You obviously think Dawkins is very good. I think he’s average for a LT and replaceable. Especially for the contract he’s going to expect I am somewhere between. He isn't "very good" or at least he isn't consistently. His best is very good but he is inconsistent. However, I don't think he is easily replaceable. There are at least 12-15 LTs starting in the league I wouldn't even consider over Dion. I am not completely opposed to upgrading him, but if you are doing that it is with an early draft pick IMO. I have always thought the answer was draft a kid and slide Dawkins into left guard. I think you could still do that and kick McGovern into center to replace Morse but not sure I wanna mess with the guards after the year they have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I am somewhere between. He isn't "very good" or at least he isn't consistently. His best is very good but he is inconsistent. However, I don't think he is easily replaceable. There are at least 12-15 LTs starting in the league I wouldn't even consider over Dion. I am not completely opposed to upgrading him, but if you are doing that it is with an early draft pick IMO. I have always thought the answer was draft a kid and slide Dawkins into left guard. I think you could still do that and kick McGovern into center to replace Morse but not sure I wanna mess with the guards after the year they have had. I am about here with you. wanted Dawkins at guard for a long time. Think it would be beneficial to him. Maybe not money wise but play wise. Problem with keeping him is his pay. He’s going to get top 5 LT money when he’s up and imo he’s no where near that. 10th highest? Sure. Not top 5. At his age and his inconsistency I think it’s better to let him walk when the contract is up. Especially if 4 other spots on your line are solidified. Which might not be the case by the time Dawkins is up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Well, well Hell did freeze over 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Hmm, the sacks stat I would bet is misleading. Is there a stat for offensive line for allowing pressure? I think that stat is good because of Allen being elusive and hard to tackle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 14 minutes ago, mrags said: I am about here with you. wanted Dawkins at guard for a long time. Think it would be beneficial to him. Maybe not money wise but play wise. Problem with keeping him is his pay. He’s going to get top 5 LT money when he’s up and imo he’s no where near that. 10th highest? Sure. Not top 5. At his age and his inconsistency I think it’s better to let him walk when the contract is up. Especially if 4 other spots on your line are solidified. Which might not be the case by the time Dawkins is up anyway. I don't love pushing money down the road with Dion because of the weight issues and some of the inconsistencies. But we are kinda damned if we do and damned if we don't. What I will say is he signed for "top 5" money at the time he signed this deal and he has outplayed that contract value IMO with inflated salaries since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: Hmm, the sacks stat I would bet is misleading. Is there a stat for offensive line for allowing pressure? I think that stat is good because of Allen being elusive and hard to tackle. It's the second stat listed lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't love pushing money down the road with Dion because of the weight issues and some of the inconsistencies. But we are kinda damned if we do and damned if we don't. What I will say is he signed for "top 5" money at the time he signed this deal and he has outplayed that contract value IMO with inflated salaries since. Yeah I don’t think he’s worth what we payed for him. Like I’ve said multiple times. I think he’s fine if you expect him to be the 3rd best guy on your line. But he’s getting paid to be the best guy not only on the line but one of the best in the league and he just isn’t. But like I said multiple times, I expect him to be extended to push some money down the road. And honestly, if we can expect what we’ve gotten out of him lately I could accept it. But man we’re gonna be pissed if he drops off at all after getting another contract with top 5 money. At his age and his inability to keep away from the buffet I’m not convinced it’s a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Pleasantly surprised on three counts: 1. Morse: I really thought the concussions were the end for him. Good to see him playing well though I really hope he's not jeopardizing his long-term mental wellnesss. 2. Dawkins: those off-season vids really made him look unathletic, but he's playing well 3. Brown: virtually everyone wrote him off and he's been decent, I think. Maybe he's healthy and his back was a big part of the problem last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L Ron Burgundy Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 36 minutes ago, Capco said: It's the second stat listed lol. My name is L Ron Burgundy and I am an idiot. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capco Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said: My name is L Ron Burgundy and I am an idiot. Thanks. Haha no worries. You're welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finn Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 4 hours ago, Magox said: He could be, I think he has shown that he could hold down the fort. Ideally, you want someone who can do more than be adequate. Center is a key position. Maybe a third-round pick? Higher would be nice, but they need WR and safety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 18, 2023 Author Share Posted December 18, 2023 6 minutes ago, finn said: Ideally, you want someone who can do more than be adequate. Center is a key position. Maybe a third-round pick? Higher would be nice, but they need WR and safety. Another DT as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Didn't we similarly destroy the Boys a couple Thanksgivings ago? Hope it's not just the matchup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smward8 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 I'm pretty sure it takes some time for an offensive line with two new guys to really gel. Yesterday they looked a unit, not five guys trying to figure it out. Granted, Dallas is defense is shaped to beat the passing game since they expect to be playing with an early lead - too bad for them. That said, the Bills play calling was really good. Stuck with what was working, making Dallas have to adjust, then shifting to something else that worked, etc so they were on their heels allnight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Meanwhile - anyone notice that PFF Team of the Week, RG is Jon Feliciano. SMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerBillsFan Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 12 hours ago, Magox said: In an earlier thread last week I mentioned that I thought that this was the best offensive line that we have had in well over a decade and to my surprise there were some people who had disagreed. From my perspective, this is the best and most well balanced offensive line we have had since our Super Bowl days. This offensive line can both run and pass block and it's not just advanced scouting or stats but they pass the eye ball test. - 1st in Sacks allowed at only 1.4 sacks given up per game - 9th in pressures allowed at 18.3% - 7th in Yards Per Carry - 6th in rushing yards per game - 6th in rushing TDs per game PFF has the Bills as one of the top units Keep in mind that our rushing yards isn't just a Josh Allen story like it had been the past few years but from our RB's. I just don't think we need to actively look to upgrade the offensive line this offseason. I do think Spencer Brown is our future RT and has shown a lot of improvement this year. I think looking for Mitch Morse eventual replacement would be the only position aside from depth upgrades the Bills need to go after this offseason with the line. I loved adding McGovern in FA and OT was the guy I hoped we got in the 1st round and we lucked out he was there in the 2nd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 9 hours ago, mrags said: Yeah I don’t think he’s worth what we payed for him. Like I’ve said multiple times. I think he’s fine if you expect him to be the 3rd best guy on your line. But he’s getting paid to be the best guy not only on the line but one of the best in the league and he just isn’t. But like I said multiple times, I expect him to be extended to push some money down the road. And honestly, if we can expect what we’ve gotten out of him lately I could accept it. But man we’re gonna be pissed if he drops off at all after getting another contract with top 5 money. At his age and his inability to keep away from the buffet I’m not convinced it’s a good move. He signed for "top 5" money but he was only in the top 5 for a year and the market exploded after a year after he signed. He is now the 25th best paid tackle by AAV. Value wise Dawkins contract is one of Beane's best IMO. I share the concerns about extending again with bigger cap hits down the road, for a guy that is at his age and has his weight issues. It is certainly risky. But I agree they will do it because it is one of the easier cap moves available to them and they love him as a person and a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 13 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: The prevailing thought is that Ryan Bates is the heir apparent. 13 hours ago, Magox said: He could be, I think he has shown that he could hold down the fort. I think Ryan Bates is a better flex player than a starter. Bills could even give players a break just they do with RBs and even send him in with playcalls and having player he is replacing step out. This is something that they need to practice but is just walkthrough not requiring contact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 33 minutes ago, Limeaid said: I think Ryan Bates is a better flex player than a starter. Bills could even give players a break just they do with RBs and even send him in with playcalls and having player he is replacing step out. This is something that they need to practice but is just walkthrough not requiring contact. Yea Bates is a fine backup who you can definitely get by for a game or two with. But as we saw last season when teams gameplanning against you get to really break down his film they can identify and expose his weaknesses and while he doesn't become a liability he definitely gets shown as below average. I think it was the same with pre-injury Ike Boettger. I am fine with Bates being their kind of "baseline" at center if Morse moves on but I'd like them to make an attempt at an upgrade on him - whether that is a vet or a draft pick. Ideally I think you pick a young mid round center and if Bates starts the first 5 or 6 weeks but then gives way to the new guy fair enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Yea Bates is a fine backup who you can definitely get by for a game or two with. But as we saw last season when teams gameplanning against you get to really break down his film they can identify and expose his weaknesses and while he doesn't become a liability he definitely gets shown as below average. I think it was the same with pre-injury Ike Boettger. I am fine with Bates being their kind of "baseline" at center if Morse moves on but I'd like them to make an attempt at an upgrade on him - whether that is a vet or a draft pick. Ideally I think you pick a young mid round center and if Bates starts the first 5 or 6 weeks but then gives way to the new guy fair enough. Bates also has not started with Kromer as OL coach and is known for bringing best out of linemen and I'd like to see him playing with rest of offense line when we blowout the Cheaters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIT BY SPIKES Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 The OL’s performance in the Cowboys game was well beyond impressive. If the OL continues to play at that level, not only will the Bills make the playoffs, they will make a deep playoff run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Funny what happens when the team puts some significant resources into the offense. Hope they do even more this off-season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 12 hours ago, Bill from NYC said: Yes the OL looked excellent. I am still strongly for trying to bolster and add depth to it via the draft. I generally agree that if Mitch is willing to come back for one last go around they should invest mainly in mid round depth and developmental players. Bates should either take over for Mitch or be the 6th offensive lineman a “super sub” if you will. Then if Edwards comes back on the cheap resign him and then Van Denmark could be the swing tackle. Then you should likely invest in a long term Dawkins replacement who can kick inside if needed. That would get you 9 deep. If Mitch is cut and Edwards isn’t back then I think you gotta go heavy with two draft picks at a minimum plus a capable vet addition to add to Van Demark on the bench. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoMAn Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 it's the first time I recall the O-line not having to play musical chairs due to injuries. In the past they were often reaching deep into the depth chart just to have 5 linemen. Amazingly, they've fielded the same 5 starters all season. Knock on morning wood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 It’s been good all year and they have stayed healthy. I was always shaking my head when people would talk about how bad the line was earlier when the bills were losing. It’s been a weird season where they upgraded the ol and at TE yet have produced less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said: It’s been good all year and they have stayed healthy. I was always shaking my head when people would talk about how bad the line was earlier when the bills were losing. It’s been a weird season where they upgraded the ol and at TE yet have produced less. Yea the offensive production earlier in the year was not acceptable. Because at OL, at TE and at RB they have upgraded / developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldfronts Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) Problem is that it takes them almost all season to create chemistry and gel together and then they have to redo it all over again next year like brand new babies Edited December 19, 2023 by Coldfronts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Defense Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 19 hours ago, Magox said: In an earlier thread last week I mentioned that I thought that this was the best offensive line that we have had in well over a decade and to my surprise there were some people who had disagreed. From my perspective, this is the best and most well balanced offensive line we have had since our Super Bowl days. This offensive line can both run and pass block and it's not just advanced scouting or stats but they pass the eye ball test. - 1st in Sacks allowed at only 1.4 sacks given up per game - 9th in pressures allowed at 18.3% - 7th in Yards Per Carry - 6th in rushing yards per game - 6th in rushing TDs per game PFF has the Bills as one of the top units Keep in mind that our rushing yards isn't just a Josh Allen story like it had been the past few years but from our RB's. I just don't think we need to actively look to upgrade the offensive line this offseason. I do think Spencer Brown is our future RT and has shown a lot of improvement this year. I think looking for Mitch Morse eventual replacement would be the only position aside from depth upgrades the Bills need to go after this offseason with the line. Thanks, great stats, and this will be the key to their championship run this year. But can you get the stats for the last 4 weeks, AD, as well? As, keep in mind, those stats from the rest of the year include the offense under maybe the most incompetent OC in Bills history. Curious to see how improved they are lately.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 44 minutes ago, Coldfronts said: Problem is that it takes them almost all season to create chemistry and gel together and then they have to redo it all over again next year like brand new babies 6-8 games perhaps, but your point on chemistry is key! The other thing is that we haven't had any key injuries, if any, on the OL or even the offense in general. We've been incredibly fortunate like that. Beane really needs to go OL & WR in rounds 1 & 2. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, PBF81 said: 6-8 games perhaps, but your point on chemistry is key! The other thing is that we haven't had any key injuries, if any, on the OL or even the offense in general. We've been incredibly fortunate like that. Beane really needs to go OL & WR in rounds 1 & 2. I agree on the draft scenario. What we’ve seen is that McDs style of defense is much less reliant on personnel and more reliant on scheme. The offense however needs a serious amount of restocking at WR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 I think we've pretty much all have seen that one play of Dawkins riding that guy for nearly 20 yards before burying him. Look at this one. We just completely manhandled them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: I agree on the draft scenario. What we’ve seen is that McDs style of defense is much less reliant on personnel and more reliant on scheme. The offense however needs a serious amount of restocking at WR. Yup! Also, O is still more important than D though, and when you have Allen ... First things first however. Onward to break our @Chargers curse and obliterate Jiminy Glick & the 28th ranked Charger D. Hopefully Dallas wakes up this week from its slumber and takes out Miami, setting up the season finale for the division win. 3 minutes ago, Magox said: I think we've pretty much all have seen that one play of Dawkins riding that guy for nearly 20 yards before burying him. Look at this one. We just completely manhandled them. LMAO ... and take that too!! Edited December 19, 2023 by PBF81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanislebills44 Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 new solid guards calms every1 down, breeds confidence...n brown has played better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 19, 2023 Author Share Posted December 19, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 12 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Yea Bates is a fine backup who you can definitely get by for a game or two with. But as we saw last season when teams gameplanning against you get to really break down his film they can identify and expose his weaknesses and while he doesn't become a liability he definitely gets shown as below average. I think it was the same with pre-injury Ike Boettger. I am fine with Bates being their kind of "baseline" at center if Morse moves on but I'd like them to make an attempt at an upgrade on him - whether that is a vet or a draft pick. Ideally I think you pick a young mid round center and if Bates starts the first 5 or 6 weeks but then gives way to the new guy fair enough. I think there are some guys that we have on the team they are already looking at that way. We have kept Alec Anderson around for instance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 I am really sorry I am not sexy enough for some people here. I'll lose some weight in the offseason. Enough time for the "Sexiest NFL Olines" calendar. Sincerely, Dion "Fat Ass" Dawkins 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 On 12/18/2023 at 3:02 PM, TPS said: Who was the last 1,000-yard back? About to happen Saturday. I finally looked it up, and I can't believe I forgot we had Shady...shame on me. It was such a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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