8th late-game defensive meltdown this season

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’m not talking stats or rankings.  Go back and watch the final drive against New England.  You’ll see players missing tackles and committing dumb penalties.  It’s not the scheme of the play calls that failed as much as it, the defense just playing poorly.  

Wow. How about watching the whole game vs NE, which has the worst offense in the NFL??

Edited November 29, 2023 by dave mcbride

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I’m not talking stats or rankings.  Go back and watch the final drive against New England.  You’ll see players missing tackles and committing dumb penalties.  It’s not the scheme of the play calls that failed as much as it, the defense just playing poorly.  

 

Okay. You're on record saying that the worst offense in football putting up 17.1 points and 77.6 yards more than their season average is not on the defensive coaching. You should know that nobody in their right mind will agree with you because that's a ridiculous thing to say. We are not the least talented defense in football even with the injuries. So why do we sometimes play like the worst defense in football?

 

The first play of the final drive you're blaming the players for? It happened because of an incredibly stupid blitz against a team known for screen passes. The play to start the Broncos final drive and the final meaningful play of that drive were both blitzes that led to chunk yards. The first play of Philly's final FG drive was a blitz. The last play of their game winning TD drive was, you guessed it, a blitz.

 

Get out of here exclusively blaming the players when the coaching failures are so plainly obvious.

[Jauronimo]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:24 AM, dave mcbride said:

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

Big props to Dorsey and the offensive for having us in defensive slug matches with the worst offenses in the NFL for half the season. Defense kept us in the Pats, Jax, Denver, and Jets game while the offense did nothing but turn the ball over.  While the collective 6 minute lead we enjoyed in those 4 games was nice I have a hard time with any narrative that the defense let the offense down.  Its really been complementary football in that regard.

 

Lets not forget special teams which might be more deserving of credit for at least 3 losses.

[Bermuda Triangle]

17 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Big props to Dorsey and the offensive for having us in defensive slug matches with the worst offenses in the NFL for half the season. Defense kept us in the Pats, Jax, Denver, and Jets game while the offense did nothing but turn the ball over.  While the collective 6 minute lead we enjoyed in those 4 games was nice I have a hard time with any narrative that the defense let the offense down.  Its really been complementary football in that regard.

 

Lets not forget special teams which might be more deserving of credit for at least 3 losses.

Bolded is blatantly false.  

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Bolded is blatantly false.  

I guess my memory fails me for the opener where they held off Zach Wilson for some time.  In the other three, however:

 

They led for 0 minutes vs. Jax.

They led for 1:46 vs. Pats

They led for 1:55 vs Broncos

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

33 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Big props to Dorsey and the offensive for having us in defensive slug matches with the worst offenses in the NFL for half the season. Defense kept us in the Pats, Jax, Denver, and Jets game while the offense did nothing but turn the ball over.  While the collective 6 minute lead we enjoyed in those 4 games was nice I have a hard time with any narrative that the defense let the offense down.  Its really been complementary football in that regard.

 

Lets not forget special teams which might be more deserving of credit for at least 3 losses.

Special teams has been low key a disaster

[Scott7975]

22 hours ago, Governor said:

Probably none with this defense. Josh put us in a position to win in all of those games under Dorsey. It just wasn’t pretty.

 

I disagree.  I think with this offense we would have at least smoked Denver and NE and the defense wouldn't have matter.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Big props to Dorsey and the offensive for having us in defensive slug matches with the worst offenses in the NFL for half the season. Defense kept us in the Pats, Jax, Denver, and Jets game while the offense did nothing but turn the ball over.  While the collective 6 minute lead we enjoyed in those 4 games was nice I have a hard time with any narrative that the defense let the offense down.  Its really been complementary football in that regard.

 

Lets not forget special teams which might be more deserving of credit for at least 3 losses.

Thank you.

 

A mediocre defense ravaged by injuries and an offense that falls asleep for half the season is how you get a .500 football club.

[Since1981]

I view coaching as at least 50% of games lost in 4Q by one score. Even more damning on coach, when you are LEADING

[dave mcbride]

7 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Big props to Dorsey and the offensive for having us in defensive slug matches with the worst offenses in the NFL for half the season. Defense kept us in the Pats, Jax, Denver, and Jets game while the offense did nothing but turn the ball over.  While the collective 6 minute lead we enjoyed in those 4 games was nice I have a hard time with any narrative that the defense let the offense down.  Its really been complementary football in that regard.

 

Lets not forget special teams which might be more deserving of credit for at least 3 losses.

I specified that I was basically talking about the 4th quarter for both offense and defense, and lord knows the offense shares some blame. But it can’t be argued that the defense chokes all of the time late. The stats back it up - they are great in DVOA in the first parts of games and a disaster at the end. I think they’re last if memory serves. The offense has largely done ok in the fourth quarter. There are a lot of close games in the NFL, as you know, and winning the 4th quarter is often determinative. This is a team with an expected W-L record of 8.5-3.5 and a huge dollar investment in defense. It’s very frustrating.

Edited November 29, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Coach Tuesday]

Starting to suspect @JohnNord is a burner account.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Bills = Chargers East. At least we have actual fans. 

[Livinginthepast]

McD's problem is that he doesn't make the right calls under pressure and doesn't seem to understand quick enough that what he is doing isn't likely to work or just flat out wont. But he keeps at it. The soft coverage on a team who is running hurry up never works. It happened again in the Philly game on the last drive and its happened in pretty much 4 of the losses and the 2 almost losses, It happened in the Cinci playoff game and it happened in the 13 seconds game. How does a defensive "guru" not get that in the moment? Does McD not have defensive spotter up in the booth to identify in game plays that are failing repeatedly? Can he not switch to Man in those critical situations? Anything different than the sickening prevent D that leads to a loss would be preferred!

[FireChans]

4 hours ago, Since1981 said:

I view coaching as at least 50% of games lost in 4Q by one score. Even more damning on coach, when you are LEADING

Josh single-handedly lost that Jets game. To put that on coaching, at all, is crazy.

[BuffaloRebound]

9 hours ago, JohnNord said:

You did not read what I wrote clearly.  I’m talking about the final drive in the NE game after they took the lead.  Not the entire game (though Phillips and Settle were atrocious), but I digress.  
 

The explosive screen play didn’t happen because of a blitz.  If you go back and watch Stevenson breaks about 4 tackles.  This is not on the coaching staff, play call or scheme.  If Jordan Phillips makes the first tackle, it’s an 8 yard gain.   But he has one of the highest missed tackles rates in the NFL.  That’s not on McDermott.  
 

I never said that it was “all” on the players.  In most cases these failures are a mix of players getting beat on defense and some questionable calls.  

It’s not on McDermott that he keeps bringing back Phillips every year and continues to play him despite poor play and idiotic penalties?  That’s always been my problem with McDermott in addition to wetting his pants at the end of games.  He’s loyal to guys who’ve shown you can’t rely on them in big spots.  

[PBF81]

FWIW, I read somewhere this morning that McD is the only coach in history to have 6 losses by 6 points or less.  

 

 

[JohnNord]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s not on McDermott that he keeps bringing back Phillips every year and continues to play him despite poor play and idiotic penalties?  That’s always been my problem with McDermott in addition to wetting his pants at the end of games.  He’s loyal to guys who’ve shown you can’t rely on them in big spots.  

It’s not that he’s loyal to them…it’s all he has on the roster.  So in that sense, maybe you place some of the blame on him and Beane for that but at the end of the day it falls on the players, and in the case of the NE game - injuries.  
 

If you recall, the Bills were without DaQuan Jones and Ed Oliver.  So they had to use Phillips, Tim Settle, and Poona Forna along with Kendall Vickers.  The results were abysmal.  Not only were consistently beaten and to make matters worse Dorian Williams was completely lost.  Tyrel Dodson fared better but still was not great.   This was a big reason why NE had success, which is maddening considering how they’ve looked in other games.  
 

Everyone wants to conflate the final drive of this game with some of the other missteps.  But this was more on the lack of execution than it was about bad play calling or scheme

22 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Josh single-handedly lost that Jets game. To put that on coaching, at all, is crazy.

This is completely true.  The only way the Bills lose to the Jets were if Josh turned the ball over…and he did!

 

In his defense, I think Dorsey was lost as a play caller against a defense like NYJ.  He put too much on Josh making big plays in these games 

[dave mcbride]

12 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

It’s not that he’s loyal to them…it’s all he has on the roster.  So in that sense, maybe you place some of the blame on him and Beane for that but at the end of the day it falls on the players, and in the case of the NE game - injuries.  
 

If you recall, the Bills were without DaQuan Jones and Ed Oliver.  So they had to use Phillips, Tim Settle, and Poona Forna along with Kendall Vickers.  The results were abysmal.  Not only were consistently beaten and to make matters worse Dorian Williams was completely lost.  Tyrel Dodson fared better but still was not great.   This was a big reason why NE had success, which is maddening considering how they’ve looked in other games.  
 

Everyone wants to conflate the final drive of this game with some of the other missteps.  But this was more on the lack of execution than it was about bad play calling or scheme

This is completely true.  The only way the Bills lose to the Jets were if Josh turned the ball over…and he did!

 

In his defense, I think Dorsey was lost as a play caller against a defense like NYJ.  He put too much on Josh making big plays in these games 

I will agree that Dorsey called a horrible game vs the Jets in the opener. You don't keep throwing when you're up 10 points vs a Zach Wilson-led offense. You just can't. That said, the D gave up a big TD drive to the Jets in the 4th that allowed them to tie the game - and they were playing Zach Wilson.

 

And then the horrible low punt and TD return. Christ. What a ridiculous loss.

[JohnNord]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I will agree that Dorsey called a horrible game vs the Jets in the opener. You don't keep throwing when you're up 10 points vs a Zach Wilson-led offense. You just can't. That said, the D gave up a big TD drive to the Jets in the 4th that allowed them to tie the game - and they were playing Zach Wilson.

 

And then the horrible low punt and TD return. Christ. What a ridiculous loss.

They did, but that was the only TD the defense surrendered up to that point.   And also, after the score was tied I believe Josh fumbled the football.  
 

The reason they passed so much against the Jets is because the run game sucked - but I would also attribute to this Dorsey who never seemed to be great at mixing up run and pass plays.  Look how the Bills ran against the Eagles top run defense this week compared to week 1

[dave mcbride]

Just now, JohnNord said:

They did, but that was the only TD the defense surrendered up to that point.   And also, after the score was tied I believe Josh fumbled the football.  
 

The reason they passed so much against the Jets is because the run game sucked - but I would also attribute to this Dorsey who never seemed to be great at mixing up run and pass plays.  Look how the Bills ran against the Eagles top run defense this week compared to week 1

The run game wasn't great, but at the same time you should play it safe and accept punts and a field position game vs an absolutely terrible offense that you're leading by two scores. 

[dave mcbride]

7 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

They did, but that was the only TD the defense surrendered up to that point.   And also, after the score was tied I believe Josh fumbled the football.  
 

The reason they passed so much against the Jets is because the run game sucked - but I would also attribute to this Dorsey who never seemed to be great at mixing up run and pass plays.  Look how the Bills ran against the Eagles top run defense this week compared to week 1

I'd add that the Jets had basically two possessions in the 4th quarter: an eight-play TD drive and an 8 play FG drive from the Bills 27 in which they converted a 4th and 1 that forced the Bills to burn timeouts. When the Bills got it back, they moved the ball fairly easily but ran out of time and had to settle for a long FG to tie it. Make that stop on 4th, and the game may turn out very differently. But as with so many 4th quarter performances this season, the D could not make a stop in crunch time.  And against Zach Wilson. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by dave mcbride

[T master]

On 11/27/2023 at 9:25 AM, HomeskillitMoorman said:

It’s McD’s specialty 

 

Yah i wish McD would have never dropped those 2 passes for TD's or missed those 2 kicks, if only McD would have made those we would have won the game but that dam HC you just can't trust him in those moments ...

[JohnNord]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I'd add that the Jets had basically two possessions in the 4th quarter: an eight-play TD drive and an 8 play FG drive from the Bills 27 in which they converted a 4th and 1 that forced the Bills to burn timeouts. When the Bills got it back, they moved the ball fairly easily but ran out of time and had to settle for a long FG to tie it. Make that stop on 4th, and the game may turn out very differently. But as with so many 4th quarter performances this season, the D could not make a stop in crunch time.  And against Zach Wilson. 

That’s fine but at the end of the day they surrendered 16 points - most which came off of 4 Josh Allen turnovers.  3 which happened in their own end.  
 

You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB. Who, I’ll also add, went 3-and-out to start overtime resulting in the loss.  

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The run game wasn't great, but at the same time you should play it safe and accept punts and a field position game vs an absolutely terrible offense that you're leading by two scores. 

The only way to lose the game was to turn the ball over - which Josh did 4 times

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

That’s fine but at the end of the day they surrendered 16 points - most which came off of 4 Josh Allen turnovers.  3 which happened in their own end.  
 

You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB. Who, I’ll also add, went 3-and-out to start overtime resulting in the loss.  

The only way to lose the game was to turn the ball over - which Josh did 4 times

I think reasonable minds would agree that while the offense and ST were very bad that night, all the defense was to stop the Zach Wilson led-offense from scoring a TD.  That night, he completed nearly 70% of his passes, for 10 ypc - compare that to his stats the next two weeks.

[Thriftygamer83]

Considering Sean McDermott's has been battling skin cancer for awhile any criticism due isn't justified right now.  Cannot fire him and he's willing to keep going through it.  We all need to really step back and think about what's going on.  Getting whisked away by ownership and Management before a presser isn't a good thing.  Saw my Grandmother's lung cancer spread to her brain.  

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

That’s fine but at the end of the day they surrendered 16 points - most which came off of 4 Josh Allen turnovers.  3 which happened in their own end.  
 

You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB. Who, I’ll also add, went 3-and-out to start overtime resulting in the loss.  

The only way to lose the game was to turn the ball over - which Josh did 4 times

I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall. The Bills D made zero plays in crunch time -- i.e., the fourth quarter. All they did was allow the Jets to first move the ball for a TD and second chew up valuable clock at the end.  I never said that they're a bad defense for four quarters of games.  

[Dopey]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:28 AM, mrags said:

I can’t link because I didn’t save them and cannot provide screen shot because the files are too large. But here’s a copy and paste:

 

Nick Veronica @NickVeronica

Follow

The Bills have managed to lose 6 games by 6 points or less in the first 12 weeks of the season.

Congrats, no team in NFL history has done it more than that.

20 others matched that total — most recent were the 2015 Ravens & 2012 Panthers, whose D coordinator you might recognize.

 

And:

Michael F. Florio @MichaelFFlorio

 

Josh Allen threw for 339 yards and 2 TDs, while rushing for 81 and another 2 TDs. Scored 34 points. They lost.

3 times this year Josh Allen has scored to give the Bills a lead with under 2 minutes left and they've gone onto lose. It all comes down to one person

He also threw a pick that gave philly the ball at our 25 yd line that led to a TD, in the 4th qtr. That TD gave them the lead. He's been putting the defense in a bad spot way too often. It's not just his year. It's happening way too much. This failure is a team effort, Josh included. Since the win over Miami he's thrown an int. in 8 straight games. That Int. in the philly game was killer. He literally lost the first Jets game. By himself. Our "best player" cannot lead the league in turnovers and be absolved of any blame. 

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

11 minutes ago, Dopey said:

He also threw a pick that gave philly the ball at our 25 yd line that led to a TD, in the 4th qtr. That TD gave them the lead. He's been putting the defense in a bad spot way too often. It's not just his year. It's happening way too much. This failure is a team effort, Josh included. Since the win over Miami he's thrown an int. in 8 straight games. That Int. in the philly game was killer. He literally lost the first Jets game. By himself. Our "best player" cannot lead the league in turnovers and be absolved of any blame. 

 

And on the series of downs following the INT, the defense allowed a long TD on a 3rd and 15 play.  

[BuffaloRebound]

http://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nfl/bills/buffalo-bills-defense-late-game-collapses-sean-mcdermott-eric-washington-nfl/article_3ffefc4e-8e25-11ee-877e-fb08a163ac71.html

 

McDermott’s defense scheme has always been about disguising coverages in the back 7 with light in the ass guys who can cover.  He also likes light in the ass defensive ends who can bring edge pressure.  A stout 1 tech doesn’t cancel out the lack of size all over the field.  It’s hard to confuse a team for the whole game, especially a good one.  250lb ends, 220lb linebackers and 200lb safeties and CB’s aren’t gonna hold up all game.  Bernard and our LB’s were getting mauled by the Philly guards in the 2nd half.  Mcdermott’s defense might produce good numbers on paper, but it consistently folds in winning time. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

2 hours ago, T master said:

 

Yah i wish McD would have never dropped those 2 passes for TD's or missed those 2 kicks, if only McD would have made those we would have won the game but that dam HC you just can't trust him in those moments ...

 

Are you happy he chose to kneel with 20 seconds left in regulation with an elite QB rather than try to win the game? Or that he burned an extra timeout to let the Eagles regroup and take their time to take the 58 yard field goal to tie it and take us down to 1 time out? Or that we went to a completely soft prevent zone to let them easily catch any short pass they wanted with more than enough time on the clock to drive right down the field without resistance or doing it again in OT? 

 

Do we also need to go back to his entire history of late game postseason gaffes or even just the games from this year? 

 

Look at some of the teams that are in line to make the playoffs who have a QB nowhere close to Josh. This is embarrassing that all McD's been able to do with this team is go .500 and needing a miracle to make the playoffs now. 

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I will agree that Dorsey called a horrible game vs the Jets in the opener. You don't keep throwing when you're up 10 points vs a Zach Wilson-led offense. You just can't.

 

Yeah I got the sense that Dorsey fed Allen's worst impulses. The PA shot play to Diggs from midfield where Allen's 2nd INT happened was an awful play call IMO. And it was designed to go to Diggs the whole time - Sherfield's dig route on the right side was clearly meant to hold Whitehead but he didn't get nearly enough depth to pull him down. Up two scores against Zach Wilson and the Jets mentally reeling after watching Rodgers go down... why are we trying for the one-play dagger at that point?

 

In two games under Joe Brady, if you take out the meaningless hail mary INT Allen has thrown just 1 INT on 82 attempts. That's an excellent INT ratio of just 1.2%, in an offense that features a lot of tight window throws. That is not a coincidence IMO.

 

Coaching on both sides of the ball sunk this season more than anything else.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, JohnNord said:

You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB.

 

Offense definitely bears the bulk of the blame for that loss but that doesn't mean the defense is completely off the hook.

 

Good counterexample - CJ Stroud threw an INT on each of his final two drives against the Cardinals (3 total INTs on the day). One gave the Cardinals the ball at midfield, the other gave them the ball at their own 20. The Texans defense held and did not give up a TD on either of those drives. And that was against Kyler Murrary, not Zack Wilson.

 

So yes the defense has some culpability for the Jets loss, just like the offense has some culpability for the Pats loss. It is never 100% the fault of either side.

[JohnNord]

14 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Offense definitely bears the bulk of the blame for that loss but that doesn't mean the defense is completely off the hook.

 

Good counterexample - CJ Stroud threw an INT on each of his final two drives against the Cardinals (3 total INTs on the day). One gave the Cardinals the ball at midfield, the other gave them the ball at their own 20. The Texans defense held and did not give up a TD on either of those drives. And that was against Kyler Murrary, not Zack Wilson.

 

So yes the defense has some culpability for the Jets loss, just like the offense has some culpability for the Pats loss. It is never 100% the fault of either side.

I agree 100% which is why I’ve challenged people here who want to think of things in binary. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Dopey said:

He also threw a pick that gave philly the ball at our 25 yd line that led to a TD, in the 4th qtr. That TD gave them the lead. He's been putting the defense in a bad spot way too often. It's not just his year. It's happening way too much. This failure is a team effort, Josh included. Since the win over Miami he's thrown an int. in 8 straight games. That Int. in the philly game was killer. He literally lost the first Jets game. By himself. Our "best player" cannot lead the league in turnovers and be absolved of any blame. 

 

This is bat feces crazy talk.  The suggestion that the INT against the Eagles was a killer when Allen drove the Bills down for what should have been the winning TD in the last 2 minutes is beyond stupid.

 

I guess by responding to you I'm feeding the trolls but damn there are a lot of trolls on 2BD recently.

 

[JohnNord]

31 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Yeah I got the sense that Dorsey fed Allen's worst impulses. The PA shot play to Diggs from midfield where Allen's 2nd INT happened was an awful play call IMO. And it was designed to go to Diggs the whole time - Sherfield's dig route on the right side was clearly meant to hold Whitehead but he didn't get nearly enough depth to pull him down. Up two scores against Zach Wilson and the Jets mentally reeling after watching Rodgers go down... why are we trying for the one-play dagger at that point?

 

In two games under Joe Brady, if you take out the meaningless hail mary INT Allen has thrown just 1 INT on 82 attempts. That's an excellent INT ratio of just 1.2%, in an offense that features a lot of tight window throws. That is not a coincidence IMO.

 

Coaching on both sides of the ball sunk this season more than anything else.

I’ve heard people say “play calling is an art and not a science.”  
 

Too often the Bills became one dimensional out of necessity, because they had nothing in the run game - even when they should have been able to run vs. light boxes.  

Thats why everything looked so hard this season and why the offense rarely had any rhythm.  They were mostly trying to throw the ball against a defense who didn’t give 2 shitz about the run game.  
 

Brady changed up the run game a bit and got better production against tougher run defenses the past two weeks.  This opened up things in the passing game and helped out Josh.  

[CincyBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Offense definitely bears the bulk of the blame for that loss but that doesn't mean the defense is completely off the hook.

 

Good counterexample - CJ Stroud threw an INT on each of his final two drives against the Cardinals (3 total INTs on the day). One gave the Cardinals the ball at midfield, the other gave them the ball at their own 20. The Texans defense held and did not give up a TD on either of those drives. And that was against Kyler Murrary, not Zack Wilson.

 

So yes the defense has some culpability for the Jets loss, just like the offense has some culpability for the Pats loss. It is never 100% the fault of either side.

Also Stroud threw a terrible INT late in the 4th qtr that handed the Bengals an easy TD. But the Texans as a TEAM rose up and bailed Stroud out grabbing a big win in Cincinnati.

 

The critics of Allen's one INT simply ignore what Chris Simms pointed out: OTHER Bills are allowed to make great plays to bail their QB out and win the game.  Like the Eagles kicker who made a 59 yard FG in a rain storm. 

 

Attaching ALL the responsibility to Allen is insane and leaves me scratching my head.

 

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

9 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I agree 100% which is why I’ve challenged people here who want to think of things in binary. 

You said "You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB" earlier in this thread. 

[JohnNord]

17 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

You said "You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB" earlier in this thread. 

 

Context matters, son.

 

Someone was trying to say the defense was to primarily to blame for the Jets loss.  My argument was that the offense was much more to blame and stand by what I said.  You can’t fault the defense as much as you can with the offense that scored 16 points and the QB that turned the ball over 4 times.  

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

And on the series of downs following the INT, the defense allowed a long TD on a 3rd and 15 play.  

Maybe I should have had the statement "this failure is a team effort, Josh included". Josh gets all the excuses. 8 games in a row with a pick. Can't keep doing that. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

35 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

Context matters, son.

 

Someone was trying to say the defense was to primarily to blame for the Jets loss.  My argument was that the offense was much more to blame and stand by what I said.  You can’t fault the defense as much as you can with the offense that scored 16 points and the QB that turned the ball over 4 times.  

Nice backtrack, but I directly quoted you saying this: "You can’t fault the defense for this game.  It was squarely on the offense and our franchise QB".  Your words, not mine.

 

Sounds pretty "binary" to me, son.