DORSEY FIRED, Joe Brady Interim OC

[JROC INTEL]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:23 AM, UKBillFan said:

Utterly no point in sacking Dorsey unless McDermott follows him.

get’er done Beane

[Bimmer323i]

How can Joe Brady fairly be judged? I mean hell essentially be calling Dorsey’s plays won’t he… I doubt he can install his own system in less than a week

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Im not sure if this one was posted or not yet but I am listening/watching it now.  It's a good listen IMO.  I will watch the Warner one next.

 

 

 

One thing is said in here is something I said even when Daboll was here that I didn't like about him.  They don't build off the plays.  They don't run the football and build off of it.  They run the football just to run the football.  It isn't setting up a pass.  He also said something else I have been saying... you aren't going to march 80 yards on the Jets consistently taking 3-5 yards at a time.  Can't really do that against any team.  The explosive plays have to be mixed in there.

He sounds smart but this is my go to guy...

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Im not sure if this one was posted or not yet but I am listening/watching it now.  It's a good listen IMO.  I will watch the Warner one next.

 

 

 

One thing is said in here is something I said even when Daboll was here that I didn't like about him.  They don't build off the plays.  They don't run the football and build off of it.  They run the football just to run the football.  It isn't setting up a pass.  He also said something else I have been saying... you aren't going to march 80 yards on the Jets consistently taking 3-5 yards at a time.  Can't really do that against any team.  The explosive plays have to be mixed in there.

Explosive plays with WHO?

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Explosive plays with WHO?

Oh please. Enough of the “we don’t have no talent” stuff. No, we don’t have Hill but there is enough talent to utilize on this team. Would I like better? Of course but there is talent here. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Scott7975

[Lane Meyer K12]

With the weapons there simply is no reason for the offense to play like it has. This will likely be the right call and possibly bring some new life into an underperforming offense. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

8 hours ago, Bimmer323i said:

How can Joe Brady fairly be judged? I mean hell essentially be calling Dorsey’s plays won’t he… I doubt he can install his own system in less than a week

Well, you're correct in saying he can't install a new offense in a week.

 

What he can do is streamline what's in place and run what's been working. He will control what formation and who is on the field. 

 

He'll also have a different view of the flow of the game and what to call. There's a lot of impact he could have even running Dorsey's offense. 

[BillsFooteball]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He sounds smart but this is my go to guy...

 

 

They need to be careful. Last thing want to do is get on OJ’s nerve 

[Low Positive]

21 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Well, you're correct in saying he can't install a new offense in a week.

 

What he can do is streamline what's in place and run what's been working. He will control what formation and who is on the field. 

 

He'll also have a different view of the flow of the game and what to call. There's a lot of impact he could have even running Dorsey's offense. 

It’s actually still Daboll’s offense that he brought from New England. Time for a new playbook this offseason.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

Oh please. Enough of the “we don’t have no talent” stuff. No, we don’t have Hill but there is enough talent to utilize on this team. Would I like better? Of course but there is talent here. 

 

 

Are you just thinking more Diggs, and more Kincaid? 

 

Or is there another player on the bench that is coming in and providing these plays? 

 

I've commented previously that it doesn't take elite play design to get the ball into Harty's hands 2 times a game based on the Miami and New England catch, but that's not some big lever for this offense. 

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

It’s actually still Daboll’s offense that he brought from New England. Time for a new playbook this offseason.

It's a lot of the same concepts, that's true. But Dorsey does not use the same playbook. That's like saying it's Josh McDaniels offense because Daboll came from NE. 

 

[Low Positive]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

It's a lot of the same concepts, that's true. But Dorsey does not use the same playbook. That's like saying it's Josh McDaniels offense because Daboll came from NE. 

 

I just remember last year Josh saying that he was in “year 5” of being in the offense. Even Tom Brady said that Josh Allen is running his New England offense. That’s why I thought that. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

I just remember last year Josh saying that he was in “year 5” of being in the offense. Even Tom Brady said that Josh Allen is running his New England offense. That’s why I thought that. 

It's the same system, for sure. But each coordinator designs plays within that system. Do they keep some from previous OCs? Of course. Most coaches will steal plays from each other. But Dorsey had a unique playset. It's one of the reasons we saw 2 receivers in the same spot so often with Ken, but rarely with Daboll.

 

I've also seen in film breakdowns one of the other differences is in Dorsey's offense the reads are almost backwards from Daboll's. He would have to scan different areas. 

[Bob Jones]

Just watched Warners reviw. That 4th down play is a real eye opener.

 

Both guys running the short flat routes...Cook on the left and Kincaid on the right....would have been good choices for JA to go to right away, but after he doesn't, and he scrambles to the right, BOTH of those guys turn and take of flying to go straight down the field. Both of them, after turning upfield and taking off, just had to put on the brakes and turn around (especially Kincaid because he was on the right side, same side that JA scrambled to), and both of them would have been 7-10 yards past the 1st down marker, and would have been an easy 1st down pitch & catch. Both of those guys' situational awareness was TERRIBLE. Did they not know it was 4th down and only about 2 yards to go?! It's just mind boggling....

[colin]

45 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

Just watched Warners reviw. That 4th down play is a real eye opener.

 

Both guys running the short flat routes...Cook on the left and Kincaid on the right....would have been good choices for JA to go to right away, but after he doesn't, and he scrambles to the right, BOTH of those guys turn and take of flying to go straight down the field. Both of them, after turning upfield and taking off, just had to put on the brakes and turn around (especially Kincaid because he was on the right side, same side that JA scrambled to), and both of them would have been 7-10 yards past the 1st down marker, and would have been an easy 1st down pitch & catch. Both of those guys' situational awareness was TERRIBLE. Did they not know it was 4th down and only about 2 yards to go?! It's just mind boggling....

 

you gotta  chalk a chunk of that to inexperience.  cook seems to ride the bench more than he runs routes, and dalton is a rook.

 

it does almost seem like we don't really practice the plays we run, and certainly not on a situational basis.

 

i really hope brady turns it around, but it's hard to have confidence given the position the team is in.

[BuffaloMatt]

16 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Actually, like I said, they really should have had their defensive FG squad in place on 3rd down, because Denver was just killing time before kicking the FG, ssssooooo, the Head ball coach, Sean McClappy, should have made the decision and directed his FG squad to get out there for 3rd down, after the Bills used their final timeout. That would have been his call, NOT the STs coach. 😉 I highly doubt the STs coach can just make those types of decisions on his own. It’s 13 seconds part 2…the Head Coach needed to step up and override the STs coach.

 

As it actually happened, the Bills’ FG unit had to do a “Chinese Fire Drill” with the Dime Pkg players already on the field, as the clock was ticking down after Denver’s 3rd down kneel down. Please tell me, exactly, AT THAT POINT, how does the STs coach ensure that the proper 11 guys are out there!? 🤔

That throw by JA17 was late AND BEHIND Davis, and that’s the primary reason why it was picked. That is clearly seen in the video.

Agree to disagree. You have a special teams coach for a reason. Needed to have his guys ready and didn't. That said because we will both stand by our opinions, McD and Beane are not going anywhere as they both signed extensions this offseason. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Agree to disagree. You have a special teams coach for a reason. Needed to have his guys ready and didn't. That said because we will both stand by our opinions, McD and Beane are not going anywhere as they both signed extensions this offseason. 

Extensions don't matter for coaches. Coach salaries don't impact the cap, and Pegula has shown a willingness to pay coaches to go away many times with the Sabres. Heck, he paid Rex Ryan for three years to not coach the team. 

[JMM]

11 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Warner by my count showed (12) plays.

 

Just by formation:

 

Play 1 - Shotgun

Motion? - No

 

Play 2 - Shotgun

Motion? - No

 

Play 3 - Shotgun

Motion? - No

 

Play 4 - Under Center 

Motion? - Yes

 

Play 5 - Shotgun

Motion? - No

 

Play 6 - Shotgun

Motion? - No

 

Play 7 - Shotgun

Motion? - No

 

Play 8 - Shotgun

Motion? - Yes

 

Play 9 - Under Center

Play Action

 

Play 10 - Under Center

Motion? - Yes

Play Action

 

Play 11 - Shotgun

Motion? - Yes

 

Play 12 - Shotgun

Motion? - No

 

7/12 in static Shotgun alignments.

 

No designed boots or rollouts. 
 

We’re doing everything we can to help a struggling offense? 

Not sure I understand your point. Dorsey was not doing a good job and was fired. Josh is also not doing a good job either. He is impatient,  bails early, misses open wrs, is hesitant to run, and has made bad decisions leading to him leading the entire league in turnovers, yet again. The solution is hopefully better coordination,  but if Josh is unable to clean things up and Play the way he can, very little will change.

[Boatdrinks]

10 hours ago, Bimmer323i said:

How can Joe Brady fairly be judged? I mean hell essentially be calling Dorsey’s plays won’t he… I doubt he can install his own system in less than a week

He won’t be installing a new system , but that’s not required right now. What he needs to do is call plays that work and install gameplans that make sense . There’s more than enough in the playbook to be a very good offense. Dorsey rarely broke tendencies and his game plans were filled with head scratching calls. A fresh point of view is what’s needed here , combined with more use of Allen’s athletic ability. Start by jettisoning the WR screen, shotgun draw etc .

[Boatdrinks]

9 minutes ago, JMM said:

Not sure I understand your point. Dorsey was not doing a good job and was fired. Josh is also not doing a good job either. He is impatient,  bails early, misses open wrs, is hesitant to run, and has made bad decisions leading to him leading the entire league in turnovers, yet again. The solution is hopefully better coordination,  but if Josh is unable to clean things up and Play the way he can, very little will change.

Josh is always going to have his share of turnovers. His aggressive style will produce this at times . When he’s functioning at the high level we know he is capable of , you take the small amount of bad with the huge helping of great. When the great is squashed out of his game, that’s when it’s a problem. Brady’s task is to bring the great back into Allen’s game; not to coach it out of him. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

16 minutes ago, JMM said:

Not sure I understand your point. Dorsey was not doing a good job and was fired. Josh is also not doing a good job either. He is impatient,  bails early, misses open wrs, is hesitant to run, and has made bad decisions leading to him leading the entire league in turnovers, yet again. The solution is hopefully better coordination,  but if Josh is unable to clean things up and Play the way he can, very little will change.

Well I know one thing, Allen’s running is never coming back.

 

McDermott and Beane (he mentioned it as well at the year 2022 end of the year press conference) that Allen shouldn’t be running and if he does he needs to slide and get out bounds.

 

So that’s gone.

 

My point was the offense utilizes little to no real motion, limited play action, limited under center looks, no Allen running, and these routes is to lend themselves to checking the ball down as quickly as possibly. 
 

Combine that with the minimal investment at WR over the years, and it’s not surprising we’re here. 

[Bruffalo]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

Just watched Warners reviw. That 4th down play is a real eye opener.

 

Both guys running the short flat routes...Cook on the left and Kincaid on the right....would have been good choices for JA to go to right away, but after he doesn't, and he scrambles to the right, BOTH of those guys turn and take of flying to go straight down the field. Both of them, after turning upfield and taking off, just had to put on the brakes and turn around (especially Kincaid because he was on the right side, same side that JA scrambled to), and both of them would have been 7-10 yards past the 1st down marker, and would have been an easy 1st down pitch & catch. Both of those guys' situational awareness was TERRIBLE. Did they not know it was 4th down and only about 2 yards to go?! It's just mind boggling....

It was just a horrible play call regardless. 2 yards needed, so we line up in the shotgun and pass, 6-7 yards away from where we need to go.  

 

We were averaging 9+ a carry.  A designed Allen run feels like it would have been a sure thing. 

[JMM]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Well I know one thing, Allen’s running is never coming back.

 

McDermott and Beane (he mentioned it as well at the year 2022 end of the year press conference) that Allen shouldn’t be running and if he does he needs to slide and get out bounds.

 

So that’s gone.

 

My point was the offense utilizes little to no real motion, limited play action, limited under center looks, no Allen running, and these routes is to lend themselves to checking the ball down as quickly as possibly. 
 

Combine that with the minimal investment at WR over the years, and it’s not surprising we’re here. 

Not true regarding his running.  Planned runs have been part of the game plan again recently.  Not crazy about that long term, if you have to rely on your qb as your best runner, you have serious issues as an O. However I'm talking about his incredible ability to move and run after being pressured. That needs to continue and not have that natural instinctive part of his game be neutered. He can still do that and slide and go out of bounds. Again that's on him to realize he needs to avoid contact.  He has done a bit better with that this year.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, JMM said:

Not true regarding his running.  Planned runs have been part of the game plan again recently.  Not crazy about that long term, if you have to rely on your qb as your best runner, you have serious issues as an O. However I'm talking about his incredible ability to move and run after being pressured. That needs to continue and not have that natural instinctive part of his game be neutered. He can still do that and slide and go out of bounds. Again that's on him to realize he needs to avoid contact.  He has done a bit better with that this year.

No it is true, yes I saw that one designed run where Allen got 3 yards, or the Bucs game where he got 6. 

 

Its been taken out of the offense. 
 

Ironically, the way pressure has worked out, Allen already has 7 TDs rushing this year, almost all of them scrambles in the red zone. 
 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Well I know one thing, Allen’s running is never coming back.

 

McDermott and Beane (he mentioned it as well at the year 2022 end of the year press conference) that Allen shouldn’t be running and if he does he needs to slide and get out bounds.

 

So that’s gone.

 

My point was the offense utilizes little to no real motion, limited play action, limited under center looks, no Allen running, and these routes is to lend themselves to checking the ball down as quickly as possibly. 
 

Combine that with the minimal investment at WR over the years, and it’s not surprising we’re here. 

 

I think the whole sentence is "Allen's running is never coming back under this coaching staff"

 

The good news is, they shouldnt be around much longer. Whichever new Offensive coach we bring in should be ready to unleash the beast.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I think the whole sentence is "Allen's running is never coming back under this coaching staff"

 

The good news is, they shouldnt be around much longer. Whichever new Offensive coach we bring in should be ready to unleash the beast.

That's really up to Terry. 

 

I do agree with you that McDermott has had enough time and now he's talking about "sub-cultures" in the building with the Joe Brady move - he's scrambling now. Honestly, he sounds like all the bad coaches here do at the end - it's culture, toughness, correcting mistakes, watching tape, going back to basics and fundamentals. 

 

He's out of answers. The decision to keep the 2020 roster in-tact as much as possible, rolling it over year to year, has led to an older, more expensive roster, prone to injuries. 

 

Allen sounds like he's lost confidence, talking about having "no choice" but to soldier on with Brady, and avoiding turnovers at all cost. 

 

After McDermott eventually gets fired, we're going to hear about about his iron fist rule, how he was difficult to get along with, was a know-it-all, and stuck in the past. 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[iinii]

23 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

There are only so many coaching positions in the NFL, and they are filled by the very best literally you could not have one of these positions
 

What do you do in your life that makes you so successful to look down on the others

Filled by the very best? Is that why Dorsey got fired? He wasn’t the very best? So apparently these jobs are not filled by the very best. Oh and what about Frazier? Was he the very best? Which brings into question McDermott. He hired these guys. 
 

Oh and you needed a question mark after others. And since you asked, I do whatever I want. 

[Royale with Cheese]

23 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I think the whole sentence is "Allen's running is never coming back under this coaching staff"

 

The good news is, they shouldnt be around much longer. Whichever new Offensive coach we bring in should be ready to unleash the beast.

 

We are going 12-5.  

[DrDawkinstein]

21 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We are going 12-5.  

 

Aww, bless your heart.

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Combine that with the minimal investment at WR over the years, and it’s not surprising we’re here. 

You forgot to add minimum investment in the offensive line which is even a bigger problem.  Since McD has been coach (2017) the Bills have not spent a #1 pick on an O lineman nor have they signed a big time FA. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Aww, bless your heart.

 

Do you remember how this story ended?

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You forgot to add minimum investment in the offensive line which is even a bigger problem.  Since McD has been coach (2017) the Bills have not spent a #1 pick on an O lineman nor have they signed a big time FA. 

This is wrapped up in Beane/McDermott’s philosophy to carry over as much of the 2020 team over to 2021, 2022, and 2023.

 

The run it back again approach is partially why the roster has gotten expensive, been focused on defense, and only has cap room for low tier offensive line free agents.
 

That philosophy of cheap bandaids on the line has been how Beane has viewed the last several years. 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

 

Are you just thinking more Diggs, and more Kincaid? 

 

Or is there another player on the bench that is coming in and providing these plays? 

 

I've commented previously that it doesn't take elite play design to get the ball into Harty's hands 2 times a game based on the Miami and New England catch, but that's not some big lever for this offense. 

 

 

 

I'm thinking Diggs is elite, Kincaid is very good and may be elite with time, Cook can be explosive if they get him the ball in space, Shakir has been good.  Davis is Davis. He is boom or bust but can make explosive plays and has many. Harty or another guy off the bench, who knows as they don't use them and when they have they aren't used well.

 

It doesn't take elite play design to have explosive plays but the play design we have this year isn't really geared for explosive plays or very good usage of our guys/Josh.  Like it might be a good offense, but it isn't clicking for these guys.  They need to do better.  Our talent is better than the Chiefs this year.  Probably better than what the Chiefs had last year too.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you remember how this story ended?

 

 

Their coach went on to buy a bunch of property in Nevada with the idea to hit the San Andreas fault with missiles?

[dollars 2 donuts]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Their coach went on to buy a bunch of property in Nevada with the idea to hit the San Andreas fault with missiles?

 

 

Otisburg

 

 

[Peter]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We are going 12-5.  

 

From what I have read here and heard on WGR, Dorsey was what was holding us back.

 

Now that McClappy has thrown Dorsey under the bus, there should be no reason why we should not go undefeated for the rest of the season and win the Super Bowl.

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Peter

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Peter said:

 

From what I have read here and heard on WGR, Dorsey what was holding us back.

 

Now that McClappy has thrown Dorsey under the bus, there should be no reason why we should not go undefeated for the rest of the season and win the Super Bowl.

 

Link any posts that say that.

[Peter]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Link any posts that say that.

 

Read the incessant threads about firing Dorsey. 

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Otisburg

 

 

 

Just a little town outside of Luthorville

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Peter said:

 

Read the incessant threads about firing Dorsey. 

Most teams' fans want to fire the OC.