Ben Solak (The Ringer) Analysis of Josh's Decisions this Year

[reddogblitz]

48 minutes ago, beerme1 said:

 

I'm so sick of this narrative. I'm sick of seeing commercials with Mahomes, Kelsey and Reid. They've won Super Bowls

How has that commercial action impacted their performance? 

This notion that Josh is impacted by this is a joke.

 

 

Maybe maybe not.  Everybody is different. Just because the guys you mentioned have been able to handle it doesn't mean everyone can.

 

I do remember when Ryan Fitzpatrick got a big contract upgrade/extension his played suffered for example.

 

Josh's whole thing Has been the kid everyone said couldn't make it. The kid from the small school. Troy Aikmen said on draft night he would never be accurate.  Now he's made it and proved them all wrong.  He got the fat contract.  Maybe he got a case of the big head. I don't know. Its a theory.  The shoulder is also a good theory.

 

One thing s for certain. He can't throw the bomb this year while he was good at it the last few years. What do you think has changed?

[ProcessTruster]

On 11/8/2023 at 9:53 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

At this point I'm not changing Josh.  Let him be who he is.  Yes there will be reckless moments and turnovers.  But the entire JA17 experience is not something you should tame. He's averaging 40+ tds and a top 3 MVP candidate every year.  Get a better HC and get a defense that can stay healthy for 10 minutes. 

I must agree.   He singlehandedly gave both the Bengals and the Pats early advantages in those game with those horrible 1st Qtr picks where the D dropped under the route and succesfully baited sugar high Josh to make the deeper throw.   The problem this year is the D is so depleted without 4 probowlers that it cannot compensate as well.   But I'd rather ride agressive Josh and bet he grows and resists getting baited into INTs the rest of the season.  We'll see.  

[Pete]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:08 AM, Chaos said:

In Allen's career the Bills have been about the best at moving the ball  between the 20's.  Last year and this year the red zone offense was not nearly as good as the between the 20's offense.  Any analysis of Bills problems on offense, other than the red zone woes, is a complete waste of time, because there are no other problems, only a lack of perfection, which is a completely different thing.

7 straight punts against the Bengals.  Bills D bailed out offense.  But offense couldn't help the D.

 

Offense had several losses where they had ball at end of game, and if offense scored, Bills win.

[Orlando Tim]

My issue with Josh right now is that his shoulder is not 100% and he actually has "arm arrogance". He can't throw the ball quite as hard right now and needs to accept that he has to be more common for a few weeks. I truly think the Cincinnati interception would have been completed if he was 100% but he needs to recognize where he is

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

7 straight punts against the Bengals.  Bills D bailed out offense.  But offense couldn't help the D.

 

Offense had several losses where they had ball at end of game, and if offense scored, Bills win.

Right, less than perfect, just the best. Allen also leads in fourth QB comebacks during his NFL career.  No one score lead is ever safe with McDermott's defenses if there are more than 13 seconds left in a game. This is an indisputable fact.   

[dgrochester55]

When you compare Josh Allen to the other current top quarterbacks in the league, he has the highest ceiling, but he also has the lowest floor.   Unfortunately, we have seen more of the second part of that this year than we have in the past three years before.  I still have faith in Allen and think that he can be a franchise QB for a few more years, but right now he is in a slump.

 

There is still time to turn this around, I think that the first step is letting him do what he does best with the run game and play to his strengths instead of trying to hammer a square into a round circle with Dorsey's failed schemes. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by dgrochester55

[90sBills]

46 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

When you compare Josh Allen to the other current top quarterbacks in the league, he has the highest ceiling, but he also has the lowest floor.

 

What are your metrics for ‘highest ceiling’? Mine would have to include wins in the most crucial games. Wins to secure #1 overall seeding, wins to advance to the Superbowl etc. Using this guideline he does not have the highest ceiling. He’s a very good qb that may eventually be successful at the highest of levels. But, more and more, we’re seeing his low floor holding him and the team back.

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

One thing s for certain. He can't throw the bomb this year while he was good at it the last few years. What do you think has changed?

What has changed? Opponents coverage schemes and their willingness to stick with them.  Also other teams recognize that the Bills don't really have anyone who can stretch the field with blazing speed.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

26 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

What are your metrics for ‘highest ceiling’? Mine would have to include wins in the most crucial games. Wins to secure #1 overall seeding, wins to advance to the Superbowl etc. Using this guideline he does not have the highest ceiling. He’s a very good qb that may eventually be successful at the highest of levels. But, more and more, we’re seeing his low floor holding him and the team back.

Your metrics are screwed up.  If the franchise is unwilling or unable to construct an offense around their elite QB that can deliver more wins & a #1 overall seeding then it's foolish to use those criteria in judging that QB.

 

Allen has already shown he can win the biggest games and raise his play to the stratosphere in the playoffs.  The fact they haven't reached a SB yet has NOTHING to do with Allen and everything to do with the Bills coaching and defensive performances.

 

To suggest that Allen is holding the Bills back is comprehensibly wrong. Without Allen this team is at best 3 - 6 today with no hope of turning it around this season or at anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

27 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Your metrics are screwed up.  If the franchise is unwilling or unable to construct an offense around their elite QB that can deliver more wins & a #1 overall seeding then it's foolish to use those criteria in judging that QB.

 

Allen has already shown he can win the biggest games and raise his play to the stratosphere in the playoffs.  The fact they haven't reached a SB yet has NOTHING to do with Allen and everything to do with the Bills coaching and defensive performances.

 

To suggest that Allen is holding the Bills back is comprehensibly wrong. Without Allen this team is at best 3 - 6 today with no hope of turning it around this season or at anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

 

To be fair, Allen did have a bad game vs the Jets. If Allen could have played a boring 2nd half and not thrown 2 picks and 1 fumble this team would be 6-3. The poor start in New England, down 0-10 after the first quarter was directly attributable to the first throw pick. This is nearly the same drive killing pick thrown to Gabe vs Cincy.

 

If we can get a run of Playoff Allen 17 TDs to 4 picks, and Playoff Gabe this team could beat anyone on the back 8.
 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

What are your metrics for ‘highest ceiling’? Mine would have to include wins in the most crucial games. Wins to secure #1 overall seeding, wins to advance to the Superbowl etc. Using this guideline he does not have the highest ceiling. He’s a very good qb that may eventually be successful at the highest of levels. But, more and more, we’re seeing his low floor holding him and the team back.

By this metric there is Mahomes and then a gigantic drop off to everyone else.

 

Nobody is good enough - starts with Burrow, who game by game in the Playoffs hasn’t been some dominant force - gets by on the back of a good defense, Herbert is 0-1 in the Playoffs, Lawrence has 1 Playoff win, Tua hasn’t been there, Rodgers is 12-10 in the Playoffs, Lamar is 1-3 in the Playoffs, Russ peaked years ago, so who? 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

What has changed? Opponents coverage schemes and their willingness to stick with them.  Also other teams recognize that the Bills don't really have anyone who can stretch the field with blazing speed.

 

 

 

I'm gonna disagree on this. I'm talking bombs here specifically.  In the video, the one he threw on opening night wasn't even in the same zip code as the receiver. If it was the coverage, that's a different issue.   Josh also overthrew Diggs I think it was by 5 yards in another game.  He used to drop dimes on those. This year, not so much.  Hopefully he hits a couple on Monday Night Football.

[90sBills]

59 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

By this metric there is Mahomes and then a gigantic drop off to everyone else.

 

Nobody is good enough - starts with Burrow, who game by game in the Playoffs hasn’t been some dominant force - gets by on the back of a good defense, Herbert is 0-1 in the Playoffs, Lawrence has 1 Playoff win, Tua hasn’t been there, Rodgers is 12-10 in the Playoffs, Lamar is 1-3 in the Playoffs, Russ peaked years ago, so who? 

 

 

The metric isn’t just winning the Superbowl. It’s showing the tenacity to get your teams wins when the odds are stacked against you in the biggest of games. Burrow hasn’t had massive playoffs stats but he doesn’t make the mistakes that could kill his team outside of last year’s AFCCG. He, at the very least, have gotten over the hump to get to the big game. Like it or not, QBs success are tied to teams’ success. Last season was Allen’s chance to show that he could do that too. At home against an opponent that everyone said was better than you. Then he came out and showed no fight whatsoever. Even in their postgame interactions you can tell Burrow doesn’t consider Allen his rival. 

 

You asked who? At this point it’s clearly Mahomes and Burrow. They’re this generation’s version of Brady/Manning. I thought it could’ve been Mahomes and Allen. But since the 13 sec game something had happened to Allen. He has regressed in terms of getting the team (and himself) to another level.

 

As to your first statement…yes there is a gigantic drop off from Mahomes to the next qb. Burrow is closing that gap. Allen is widening that gap. 

[Rockinon]

I think the solution is much simpler than many think. This cannot be an all Diggs, all the time offense. Gabe has been inconsistent and the other skill positions are all guys that are fairly new to the offense. Josh must really just start trusting his new weapons and getting the ball to them. We've seen some of that over the last few weeks. Kincaid is becoming a legit weapon. Cook is getting more opportunities. This needs to be the focus of the offense....simply getting the ball to everyone else. You cannot just quit giving them opportunities because one play goes badly. There is some good talent here and Josh's trust needs to expand and these weapons will only get better with each and every rep. This offense like any offense needs to spread the ball around.

 

I think there is also too much focus on trying to outsmart defenses with game plans and not enough just letting it rip. It is obvious Josh only seems to trust Diggs and that is a shame. I'm actually encouraged that Diggs popped up on the injury report. Perhaps getting some additional practice reps with other players will be helpful. The only way this offense becomes a well oiled machine is to put the ball in the hands of Cook, Kincaid, Shakir and company. It's that simple. Diggs is great, but he's only one man.

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Your metrics are screwed up.  If the franchise is unwilling or unable to construct an offense around their elite QB that can deliver more wins & a #1 overall seeding then it's foolish to use those criteria in judging that QB.

 

Allen has already shown he can win the biggest games and raise his play to the stratosphere in the playoffs.  The fact they haven't reached a SB yet has NOTHING to do with Allen and everything to do with the Bills coaching and defensive performances.

 

To suggest that Allen is holding the Bills back is comprehensibly wrong. Without Allen this team is at best 3 - 6 today with no hope of turning it around this season or at anytime in the foreseeable future.

 

 

You can find comments like ‘he should go scorched Earth’, ‘put the team on his back, and ‘will this team to victory’ all through this forum about Allen. Why do you think people have views like these? It’s because elite QBs are able to do these things. Allen has shown he can do this but not at a level that’s needed to elevate the Bills to where they want to be. At least not yet anyway.

 

You always make it seem like the organization is not doing anything to help him be successful. Are there mistakes made by management relative to player personnel? Absolutely. Could the play design be better? Absolutely. Could Allen play better to pull his team out of tough situations and win? Also absolutely.

 

My point was regarding people saying Allen has the highest ceiling among all NFL quarterbacks. Highest ceiling has to include team success in addition to making the toughest throws. Sometimes these two go hand in hand. Other times team success requires the safe throws and not the toughest throws. Mahomes and Burrow has figured this out. Allen hasn’t and that’s holding him and the team back. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

1 hour ago, 90sBills said:

The metric isn’t just winning the Superbowl. It’s showing the tenacity to get your teams wins when the odds are stacked against you in the biggest of games. Burrow hasn’t had massive playoffs stats but he doesn’t make the mistakes that could kill his team outside of last year’s AFCCG. He, at the very least, have gotten over the hump to get to the big game. Like it or not, QBs success are tied to teams’ success. Last season was Allen’s chance to show that he could do that too. At home against an opponent that everyone said was better than you. Then he came out and showed no fight whatsoever. Even in their postgame interactions you can tell Burrow doesn’t consider Allen his rival. 

 

You asked who? At this point it’s clearly Mahomes and Burrow. They’re this generation’s version of Brady/Manning. I thought it could’ve been Mahomes and Allen. But since the 13 sec game something had happened to Allen. He has regressed in terms of getting the team (and himself) to another level.

 

As to your first statement…yes there is a gigantic drop off from Mahomes to the next qb. Burrow is closing that gap. Allen is widening that gap. 

I see a different story than you.

 

Allen has produced 40+ TDs the past three seasons. 
 

He’s more than good enough to win with.

 

What I see is Buffalo’s lack of investment in speed and skill for him to throw to is catching up to the franchise. 

 

Watching the All-22’s, it’s apparent that we are trying to squeeze more blood out of a stone with efficiency and decision making. 
 

So Allen is throwing interceptions, and not always taking the underneath routes. 
 

But what’s also missing is the playmaking element to this offense.

 

To me, the Bills offense feels like the Chargers. A rocket armed QB, with a #1 WR who is a possession WR, and no speed otherwise. Which means you push the ball to one WR and dump off to running backs.

 

Allen isn’t a tactician like Burrow, not as surgical. But he is an absolute playmaker and is smart enough to play that high efficiency style. 
 

The Bengals can lean on a Top 8 defense, they can lean on the overall #5 and #32 pick and Boyd. 
 

Allen has to say screw it, run more, and pump as many targets as he can to Diggs, Kincaid and Shakir. 
 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Straight Hucklebuck

[oldmanfan]

When WRs don’t get separation or drop passes, they are criticized and rightfully so.

 

When Dorsey calls odd plays like handing off from the shotgun, or slows things down when the fast paced offense is working, he gets criticized.  And rightfully so.

 

When lineman miss blocks, or miss handing things off to the right guy during a blitz, they get criticized.  And rightfully so.

 

When RBs don’t see a hole or make the wrong cut or miss a block, they get criticized.  And rightfully so.

 

Now here’s the big question for some of you:

 

When Josh makes the wrong read and doesn’t take the easy completion, or when he gets suckered into throwing a pick on the same pattern he’s thrown one before, should he get criticized?  And rightfully so?

 

Or is Josh immune from criticism and as such is the only player on the team and likely the league that enjoys that status?

Edited November 11, 2023 by oldmanfan

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I see a different story than you.

 

Allen has produced 40+ TDs the past three seasons. 
 

He’s more than good enough to win with.

 

What I see is Buffalo’s lack of investment in speed and skill for him to throw to is catching up to the franchise. 

 

Watching the All-22’s, it’s apparent that we are trying to squeeze more blood out of a stone with efficiency and decision making. 
 

So Allen is throwing interceptions, and not always taking the underneath routes. 
 

But what’s also missing is the playmaking element to this offense.

 

To me, the Bills offense feels like the Chargers. A rocket armed QB, with a #1 WR who is a possession WR, and no speed otherwise. Which means you push the ball to one WR and dump off to running backs.

 

Allen isn’t a tactician like Burrow, not as surgical. But he is an absolute playmaker and is smart enough to play that high efficiency style. 
 

The Bengals can lean on a Top 8 defense, they can lean on the overall #5 and #32 pick and Boyd. 
 

Allen has to say screw it, run more, and pump as many targets as he can to Diggs, Kincaid and Shakir. 
 

 

 

More speed offense would definitely help. Allen can also help out the playmakers with better ball placements. Often time his placements leave receivers unable to make significant moves after catching the ball. His accuracy has taken a step back so far this season. Maybe it’s the shoulder. 
 

I do agree he has the game to win a title. He and the team need to put it all together one year. Unfortunately, it’s looking more and more like this isn’t the year. 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

14 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

 

I do agree he has the game to win a title. He and the team need to put it all together one year. Unfortunately, it’s looking more and more like this isn’t the year. 

 

 

Yeah and in the game day thread, you look at how thin this defensive secondary is with no Hyde, no Benford, Elam on IR and not trusted anyways. 
 

You’re our there with Douglas who has been here a week, Dane Jackson and Taron Johnson, a gimpy Jordan Poyer and Taylor Rapp.

So it’s just a duct tape unit.

 

Utilize Cook in the pass game more, and like I said, Diggs (72%), Kincaid (88%) and Shakir (95%) are your most efficient players. Have to push the ball there. 
 

The other video about the run game is eye opening, and he says it is the #1 reason drives fail. I guess that means minimize it, or run out of simple Pro Set formations. 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, 90sBills said:

You can find comments like ‘he should go scorched Earth’, ‘put the team on his back, and ‘will this team to victory’ all through this forum about Allen. Why do you think people have views like these? It’s because elite QBs are able to do these things. Allen has shown he can do this but not at a level that’s needed to elevate the Bills to where they want to be. At least not yet anyway.

 

You always make it seem like the organization is not doing anything to help him be successful. Are there mistakes made by management relative to player personnel? Absolutely. Could the play design be better? Absolutely. Could Allen play better to pull his team out of tough situations and win? Also absolutely.

 

My point was regarding people saying Allen has the highest ceiling among all NFL quarterbacks. Highest ceiling has to include team success in addition to making the toughest throws. Sometimes these two go hand in hand. Other times team success requires the safe throws and not the toughest throws. Mahomes and Burrow has figured this out. Allen hasn’t and that’s holding him and the team back. 

To be clear I'm saying that the Bills organization is not doing enough to FULLY EXPLOIT Allen's unique skill set and elite QB play.  Allen has already been wildly successful.

 

 

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

I’ve listened to this Solak guy on a few podcasts and then watched one of his videos. Solak is very young, which makes sense why he speaks the way he does. That aside, some good he makes some good points on the offense, but seems a bit too analytical with all his advance metrics jargon.
 

The bottomline is the Bills need to find an identity on offense and not be afraid to be great at what they do.

 

Simplifying the offense, playing with tempo, not requiring the receivers to read and react to coverages, and executing the called route is the key. There have been too many instances of players tripping over each other and not maintaining spacing. Dorsey needs to simplify the offense and get on the attack. 

[WideNine]

Whether Josh likes it or not, this is going to come home to Dorsey and his ability to get production out of Allen and this offense.

 

At the end of the day, it is nice that Allen has a great rapport with Ken Dorsey, but if that is not translating into offensive production on game days then the team is going to have to think about changes at OC. Where I see the most difference with this offense compared to when Daboll was OC is execution and how many ways this offense seems less disciplined with execution.

 

Sloppy mistakes that kill drives and uninspired efforts that land them short of the sticks. Even with Daboll, I thought defenses were homing in more on our tendencies, but Daboll was able to get more out of that slot position and jet motion with zone beaters and seemed to have Allen more dialed in particularly when we had a reliable veteran slot receiver in Beasley who knew how to read zones and find the soft spots in zones and at the sticks to keep the chains moving.

This offense has been struggling since late last year and it has carried over for much of this year. Hard to defend whatever they are putting on display most games this season as being an example of the needle moving in the right direction.

 

 

 

 

[beerme1]

17 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Maybe maybe not.  Everybody is different. Just because the guys you mentioned have been able to handle it doesn't mean everyone can.

 

I do remember when Ryan Fitzpatrick got a big contract upgrade/extension his played suffered for example.

 

Josh's whole thing Has been the kid everyone said couldn't make it. The kid from the small school. Troy Aikmen said on draft night he would never be accurate.  Now he's made it and proved them all wrong.  He got the fat contract.  Maybe he got a case of the big head. I don't know. Its a theory.  The shoulder is also a good theory.

 

One thing s for certain. He can't throw the bomb this year while he was good at it the last few years. What do you think has changed?

 

The coaches. They determined he shouldn't run and it's taken his mind out of the game. They must have drilled this mantra into him hard. I want the Josh back that wouldn't hesitate to take off with the ball. And maybe even leap a guy if he has to. I believe that gets his juices going and plugs him into the game and they've coached it out of him and I think that sucks.

[90sBills]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

To be clear I'm saying that the Bills organization is not doing enough to FULLY EXPLOIT Allen's unique skill set and elite QB play.  Allen has already been wildly successful.

 

 

 

 

Agreed on both these points. 

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, beerme1 said:

 

The coaches. They determined he shouldn't run and it's taken his mind out of the game. They must have drilled this mantra into him hard. I want the Josh back that wouldn't hesitate to take off with the ball. And maybe even leap a guy if he has to. I believe that gets his juices going and plugs him into the game and they've coached it out of him and I think that sucks.

 

 

Folks are still playing that tired mantra of coaches not "letting Allen run" or "coaching it out of him" and not really thinking about the injuries to Allen's throwing shoulder and how that may be changing how Allen is trying to approach games as a QB.

 

The way Allen plays he is getting hurt. Whether he is in the pocket either failing to read the defense, or turning down quick throws on schedule that are open underneath looking for deeper shots, or just making up his mind where he is going to force the ball. That behavior leads to him holding the ball long enough for opposing rushers to get home and lay hits on him. If he takes off and tries to bowl over defenders, or when he scrambles extending plays outside of structure he can and does gets leveled and has injured his shoulder.

 

Allen's throws, accuracy, and ability to practice with the offense has been hampered by injuries to his shoulder the past 2 years. Against the Giants he was scrambling, extending plays outside of structure (as he is very good at doing), but he got hit and landed on his shoulder reinjuring it. There is a brave recklessness to some of Allen's game that in some ways is admirable. When he got blasted last year and was mic'd up and told that guy that hit him, "I love that s**t".

 

But this is the real world and the hits are starting to catch up to him. Allen injured his throwing shoulder and broke his collarbone in Wyoming too and he played much the same way he does now. You watch the clips below and you see the same kind of QB - Allen holding the ball, evading the rush, often rolling to his right, directing scramble drills and creating plays outside the structure of the play that is called - basically street ball.

 

Successful QBs need to have that ability. Pure pocket throwing statues (unless they can dissect defenses and have one hell of a quick trigger with accuracy - Brady) do not last long, but Allen cannot live in that world of running around on every play the same way he did at Wyoming either.  NFL defenses are too good, and they catch on, and now they make things harder with disguising deeper zone coverages, negating our scramble drills, and often spy him with speedy LBs and Strong Safeties that can close on him and get hits on him as soon as he bails on the pocket.

 

Good QBs that can last in this league have to have both the ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly (and accurately) to negate a good pass rush or blitz, and the ability to run and play outside of the structure when things break down or there is simply room to run. Allen does one of these things very well (playing outside the structure), but the other needs more work. He also needs to throw the ball away, slide, or run out of bounds if it means he avoids injury. The best ability is availability.

 

 

 

There is a reason why veteran QBs and retired QBs are saying the same thing. They want to see a long career for Allen as we do, but I am not sure if that is going to happen if he keeps playing the same way and tearing up that shoulder. It is less about telling Allen not to run, and more telling Allen "if you ARE going to throw the ball, know where to go with it and get rid of it quickly so you are not getting slammed". 

There are other issues with the offensive game plans, preparation, and execution, but it is hard to put my finger on those things as coaches are either getting the most out of their players or they are not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by WideNine

[beerme1]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

 

Folks are still playing that tired mantra of coaches not "letting Allen run" or "coaching it out of him" and not really thinking about the injuries to Allen's throwing shoulder and how that may be changing how Allen is trying to approach games as a QB.

 

The way Allen plays he is getting hurt. Whether he is in the pocket either failing to read the defense, or turning down quick throws on schedule that are open underneath looking for deeper shots, or just making up his mind where he is going to force the ball. That behavior leads to him holding the ball long enough for opposing rushers to get home and lay hits on him. If he takes off and tries to bowl over defenders, or when he scrambles extending plays outside of structure he can and does gets leveled and has injured his shoulder.

 

Allen's throws, accuracy, and ability to practice with the offense has been hampered by injuries to his shoulder the past 2 years. Against the Giants he was scrambling, extending plays outside of structure (as he is very good at doing), but he got hit and landed on his shoulder reinjuring it. There is a brave recklessness to some of Allen's game that in some ways is admirable. When he got blasted last year and was mic'd up and told that guy that hit him, "I love that s**t".

 

But this is the real world and the hits are starting to catch up to him. Allen injured his throwing shoulder and broke his collarbone in Wyoming too and he played much the same way he does now. You watch the clips below and you see the same kind of QB - Allen holding the ball, evading the rush, often rolling to his right, directing scramble drills and creating plays outside the structure of the play that is called - basically street ball.

 

Successful QBs need to have that ability. Pure pocket throwing statues (unless they can dissect defenses and have one hell of a quick trigger with accuracy - Brady) do not last long, but Allen cannot live in that world of running around on every play the same way he did at Wyoming either.  NFL defenses are too good, and they catch on, and now they make things harder with disguising deeper zone coverages, negating our scramble drills, and often spy him with speedy LBs and Strong Safeties that can close on him and get hits on him as soon as he bails on the pocket.

 

Good QBs that can last in this league have to have both the ability to read defenses and get rid of the ball quickly (and accurately) to negate a good pass rush or blitz, and the ability to run and play outside of the structure when things break down or there is simply room to run. Allen does one of these things very well (playing outside the structure), but the other needs more work. He also needs to throw the ball away, slide, or run out of bounds if it means he avoids injury. The best ability is availability.

 

 

 

There is a reason why veteran QBs and retired QBs are saying the same thing. They want to see a long career for Allen as we do, but I am not sure if that is going to happen if he keeps playing the same way and tearing up that shoulder. It is less about telling Allen not to run, and more telling Allen "if you ARE going to throw the ball, know where to go with it and get rid of it quickly so you are not getting slammed". 

There are other issues with the offensive game plans, preparation, and execution, but it is hard to put my finger on those things as coaches are either getting the most out of their players or they are not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok fine. Gunslingers don't care. I think Josh hurt his shoulder entering a melee and coming to the defense of a teammate. It's how he's wired. Let him be him. He is not a small man. 

[reddogblitz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Right on.  There is a long history of QBs coming into the NFL that are good Passers but also full of youth and vinegar and are not going to play old fuddy duddy pocket passer football.  They have early success but also get injured a few times and start to realize you're not gonna last long ing NFL doing that so start to become pocket passers and have long carreers.  Guys I'm talking about:

 

Roger Steinbach

Donovan McNabb

Ben Roethlisberger

Randall Cunningham

Steve Young

John Elway

Durante Culpeper

Aaron Rodgers

 

The only guy I remember not doing this was Michel Vick.

 

I also heard Steve Tasker talking about this years ago about Tyrod. He said if you run like that you takes some hits you get nagging injuries like a jammed thumb or sprained ankle or a sore shoulder that pocket passers don't.

 

This is Josh's 6th season.  The running is fun and effective but he's gotta transition before too long or he's gonna have a shorter less productive carreer. He's already missed a half a season and had sore shoulders the last 2 Years hurting his play.

 

That's why I think Coach McDermott and Coach Dorsey are trying to limit the runs.  But then again, we need to win.  So we'll see.

 

[beerme1]

12 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Right on.  There is a long history of QBs coming into the NFL that are good Passers but also full of youth and vinegar and are not going to play old fuddy duddy pocket passer football.  They have early success but also get injured a few times and start to realize you're not gonna last long ing NFL doing that so start to become pocket passers and have long carreers.  Guys I'm talking about:

 

Roger Steinbach

Donovan McNabb

Ben Roethlisberger

Randall Cunningham

Steve Young

John Elway

Durante Culpeper

Aaron Rodgers

 

The only guy I remember not doing this was Michel Vick.

 

I also heard Steve Tasker talking about this years ago about Tyrod. He said if you run like that you takes some hits you get nagging injuries like a jammed thumb or sprained ankle or a sore shoulder that pocket passers don't.

 

This is Josh's 6th season.  The running is fun and effective but he's gotta transition before too long or he's gonna have a shorter less productive carreer. He's already missed a half a season and had sore shoulders the last 2 Years hurting his play.

 

That's why I think Coach McDermott and Coach Dorsey are trying to limit the runs.  But then again, we need to win.  So we'll see.

 

 

 

And as result of the coaches conservative mindset, we will miss the playoffs while we are in a Super Bowl window. Absolutely unacceptable.

We have a willing guy. Let him be him. What is this *****? Like a husband and wife? I love you honey. Now change! F that. Ball out Josh. I never want to see you with the deer in the headlights confused look you've been showing on the sidelines. I want the mad dog alpha Josh that is screaming at and pumping up his team mates. That is who Josh Allen is. This version of Josh created by McD is like Josh on Ritalin. F that!

 

 

[Southern_Bills]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:55 PM, Success said:

Paralysis by analysis.

 

Everyone is overcomplicating things.  This team has better talent than most teams in the league, and one of the best QB's.

 

Know the secret?  They need to have fun again. It's a game. Play it loose.  Have fun.

 

 

Precisely why I say fire the coach, only a coach can kill the fun with rules and regulations 

[CincyBillsFan]

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I can’t stand how people over to overstate things to make a silly point. No one with a brain is saying Allen is broken. Mahomes is having the worst season of his career. Yet, he is coming off his second MVP and SB championship after trading Tyreek Hill and throwing to maybe the worst receivers in the nfl. 
 

Allen is playing good but we need him to be great. But let’s stop with the Mahimes comparisons because it’s silly at this point. 

[BullBuchanan]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:51 PM, FrenchConnection said:

I don't want to see Josh take check-downs or play "efficient." Unleash the beast!

Enjoy 0 super bowls with that kind of play.

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I can’t stand how people over to overstate things to make a silly point. No one with a brain is saying Allen is broken. Mahomes is having the worst season of his career. Yet, he is coming off his second MVP and SB championship after trading Tyreek Hill and throwing to maybe the worst receivers in the nfl. 
 

Allen is playing good but we need him to be great. But let’s stop with the Mahimes comparisons because it’s silly at this point. 

As Greg Cosell  reminds us:  "if you need your QB to be great every game then you have a problem and it's not your QB."

 

[BigDingus]

On 11/10/2023 at 10:19 AM, GoBills808 said:

No other QB has performed as well as Allen over the course of this season. It's not hero worshipping. It's just facts.

 

Is 6 straight weeks of this nonsense enough for you yet?