giving the Bucs the short sideline throws on their final possession

[dave mcbride]

The Bucs got the Ball with 21 seconds to go at their own 20. If the Bills had guarded the sidelines instead of giving Mayfield THREE easy throws to the sideline that resulted in clock stoppages, there would have been no (nearly successful) hail mary attempt. My thinking is that if they funneled the easy completion to the middle of the field (20-25 yards downfield), a completion would have ended up running out the clock. A play of that length is going to run 6-7 seconds off the clock, and then all of the players have to race back and get set in 14 seconds before a spike. Mayfield would have been running from the 15 yard line or so. 

 

Point is, the clock was the Bucs main enemy. Allowing them to use the sidelines with ease--with the result being four legit plays with 21 seconds and no timeouts--strikes me as pretty bad tactics.     

[SoCal Deek]

You’re forgetting that McD would’ve called timeouts for them! 😂

[Buffalo03]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bucs got the Ball with 21 seconds to go at their own 20. If the Bills had guarded the sidelines instead of giving Mayfield THREE easy throws to the sideline that resulted in clock stoppages, there would have been no (nearly successful) hail mary attempt. My thinking is that if they funneled the easy completion to the middle of the field (20-25 yards downfield), a completion would have ended up running out the clock. A play of that length is going to run 6-7 seconds off the clock, and then all of the players have to race back and get set in 14 seconds before a spike. Mayfield would have been running from the 15 yard line or so. 

 

Point is, the clock was the Bucs main enemy. Allowing them to use the sidelines with ease--with the result being four legit plays with 21 seconds and no timeouts--strikes me as pretty bad tactics.     

I don't know why they don't do this. I said the same thing in the Giants game 2 weeks ago. Play the f*cking sideline. Leave the middle of the field completely open and play far back. They only have 21 seconds. They have to score a TD. Let them have the short middle stuff or even the 15 yard middle stuff. Just keep them in bounce

[BuffaloRebound]

Normally I’d say it’s not a big deal, but Mayfield has the arm to reach the end zone from his own 35-40 yard line.  He’s shown that in the past.  The goal should’ve been staying out of his range to reach the end zone, not taking 4 seconds off clock.  Mac Jones or Deshaun Watson, yeah I’m trading 7-10 yards for 4 seconds there because there’s not enough time for them to reach the end zone.  

[boyst]

Wait for the people who ignore this or combat it with the results mean it doesn't matter.

 

Real depth in their thoughts. Kiddy pool deep.

 

Yesterday our defensive strategy was odd. We let Mayfield nearly beat us. Padded coverage against Mike Evans, Godwin yac, etc. 

 

Poyer as an LB was interesting, though. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I don't know why they don't do this. I said the same thing in the Giants game 2 weeks ago. Play the f*cking sideline. Leave the middle of the field completely open and play far back. They only have 21 seconds. They have to score a TD. Let them have the short middle stuff or even the 15 yard middle stuff. Just keep them in bounce

I wonder if they’re worried about a 30 yard strike in the middle of the field and then a spike…this is def fair criticism though 

[Buffalo03]

Just now, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I wonder if they’re worried about a 30 yard strike in the middle of the field and then a spike…this is def fair criticism though 

With only 20 seconds left and deep in their own territory, I don't care about a 30 yard throw in the middle of the field. By the time they get up there to spike the ball, it would take up a significant amount of time. Better than letting them complete 10 yard sideline passes all the way up the field and stopping the clock

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I wonder if they’re worried about a 30 yard strike in the middle of the field and then a spike…this is def fair criticism though 

If it was 30 yards (a probable 8 second play), I don't see how Mayfield and all five o-linemen get 35 yards down the field to get down the field and get set in time to spike it.   

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bucs got the Ball with 21 seconds to go at their own 20. If the Bills had guarded the sidelines instead of giving Mayfield THREE easy throws to the sideline that resulted in clock stoppages, there would have been no (nearly successful) hail mary attempt. My thinking is that if they funneled the easy completion to the middle of the field (20-25 yards downfield), a completion would have ended up running out the clock. A play of that length is going to run 6-7 seconds off the clock, and then all of the players have to race back and get set in 14 seconds before a spike. Mayfield would have been running from the 15 yard line or so. 

 

Point is, the clock was the Bucs main enemy. Allowing them to use the sidelines with ease--with the result being four legit plays with 21 seconds and no timeouts--strikes me as pretty bad tactics.     

 

Way too aggressive for McD's taste. He'd rather "play not to lose".

 

Gotta give them those easy sideline gains so they can move down the field and it comes down to the last play. Otherwise it doesnt count.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Way too aggressive for McD's taste. He'd rather "play not to lose".

 

Gotta give them those easy sideline gains so they can move down the field and it comes down to the last play. Otherwise it doesnt count.

But it's not even that aggressive. It's not giving them any chance at all for a successful bomb, to say, the 40 yard line of the Bills (because it would have ended the game anyway without question); it's about treating the clock as your ally.  That seems safer to me.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

But it's not even that aggressive. It's not giving them any chance at all for a successful bomb, to say, the 40 yard line of the Bills (because it would have ended the game anyway without question); it's about treating the clock as your ally.  That seems safer to me.

 

It isnt. Key phrase in my post was "for McD's taste". Infuriating.

 

If one thing has been made clear, it's that McD does not have an alliance with the clock. That is a far more adversarial relationship.

Edited October 27, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Way too aggressive for McD's taste. He'd rather "play not to lose".

 

Gotta give them those easy sideline gains so they can move down the field and it comes down to the last play. Otherwise it doesnt count.

exactly. anyone watching this and not realizing 13 seconds was a thing, the giants game was a thing, the hopkins pass was a thing... this team is prone exactly to this. it's an Achilles heel

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

But it's not even that aggressive. It's not giving them any chance at all for a successful bomb, to say, the 40 yard line of the Bills (because it would have ended the game anyway without question); it's about treating the clock as your ally.  That seems safer to me.

I just don’t think Mcdermott is good at end of game decisions where feeling the flow of the game and specifically factoring in the other teams strengths and weaknesses is more important than analytics that tell you generic percentages.    He’s like the anti Mariano Rivera.  

[dave mcbride]

35 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It isnt. Key phrase in my post was "for McD's taste". Infuriating.

 

If one thing has been made clear, it's that McD does not have an alliance with the clock. That is a far more adversarial relationship.

That is a hilarious line!

[Goin Breakdown]

I trust McD knew what he was doing in this situation. Wait,  no I don't. That was a lie. 

[Drew21PA]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’re forgetting that McD would’ve called timeouts for them! 😂

Kind of saved baker from a would be sack 

[boyst]

6 minutes ago, Drew21PA said:

Kind of saved baker from a would be sack 

to be faaairrr.....

 

baker sort of gave up on that when i think he heard the whistle

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bucs got the Ball with 21 seconds to go at their own 20. If the Bills had guarded the sidelines instead of giving Mayfield THREE easy throws to the sideline that resulted in clock stoppages, there would have been no (nearly successful) hail mary attempt. My thinking is that if they funneled the easy completion to the middle of the field (20-25 yards downfield), a completion would have ended up running out the clock. A play of that length is going to run 6-7 seconds off the clock, and then all of the players have to race back and get set in 14 seconds before a spike. Mayfield would have been running from the 15 yard line or so. 

 

Point is, the clock was the Bucs main enemy. Allowing them to use the sidelines with ease--with the result being four legit plays with 21 seconds and no timeouts--strikes me as pretty bad tactics.     

 

 

The last minute situational stupidity started just before that on ST's with the decision to take the timeout instead of the 5 yard delay of game and then trying to drop the punt inside the 10.    It's not the second quarter.........you don't need to put them at the 2 yard line to preserve the win.   Give Haack the space.   That ball just needs to come down at the 10 yard line.    Make them field it after they fumbled prior.    Instead they go for the pin again and the play ends up in a touchback.     On a much smaller note,  no reason to waste a timeout there in the event something went haywire and you get the ball back with 13 seconds needing a score.   

[HomeskillitMoorman]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’re forgetting that McD would’ve called timeouts for them! 😂

This would be funnier if it wasn’t so sad and true. But still funny! 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bucs got the Ball with 21 seconds to go at their own 20. If the Bills had guarded the sidelines instead of giving Mayfield THREE easy throws to the sideline that resulted in clock stoppages, there would have been no (nearly successful) hail mary attempt. My thinking is that if they funneled the easy completion to the middle of the field (20-25 yards downfield), a completion would have ended up running out the clock. A play of that length is going to run 6-7 seconds off the clock, and then all of the players have to race back and get set in 14 seconds before a spike. Mayfield would have been running from the 15 yard line or so. 

 

Point is, the clock was the Bucs main enemy. Allowing them to use the sidelines with ease--with the result being four legit plays with 21 seconds and no timeouts--strikes me as pretty bad tactics.     

 

They looked like they were covering deeper on the sideline to prevent longer passes which would have allowed more time for the Bucs. Looked like the middle of the field was left wide open. That's what it looked like from the little bit of the full screen shot you got on TV at least anyway. Yeah, they allowed one Hail Mary attempt, but that was better than allowing 3 of them, or worse, a normal 25-30 yard pass into the endzone.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Big Turk

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The last minute situational stupidity started just before that on ST's with the decision to take the timeout instead of the 5 yard delay of game and then trying to drop the punt inside the 10.    It's not the second quarter.........you don't need to put them at the 2 yard line to preserve the win.   Give Haack the space.   That ball just needs to come down at the 10 yard line.    Make them field it after they fumbled prior.    Instead they go for the pin again and the play ends up in a touchback.     On a much smaller note,  no reason to waste a timeout there in the event something went haywire and you get the ball back with 13 seconds needing a score.   

Agree with your logic, but we all know an extra time out would’ve been used on the defensive side of the ball.  It’s like the opposing offense is working with their timeouts plus the Bills timeouts at end of games.  

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

They looked like they were covering deeper on the sideline to prevent longer passes which would have allowed more time. Looked like the middle of the field was left wide open. That's what it looked like from the little bit of the full screen shot you got on TV at least anyway.

Yeah, but they had seven guys in coverage against the Bucs five. They could have done a much better job of it, schematically. There is no good reason why a team with no timeouts should make four positive plays in 21 seconds (and I include the hail mary as a positive play because it was a good throw and almost worked - the Bills were lucky). That's just inexcusable.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Agree with your logic, but we all know an extra time out would’ve been used on the defensive side of the ball.  It’s like the opposing offense is working with their timeouts plus the Bills timeouts at end of games.  

 

 

Well ya' know they've only been running this defensive system since 2017,   it's still pretty new...........

[BuffaloRebound]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Yeah, but they had seven guys in coverage against the Bucs five. They could have done a much better job of it, schematically. There is no good reason why a team with no timeouts should make four positive plays in 21 seconds (and I include the hail mary as a positive play because it was a good throw and almost worked - the Bills were lucky). That's just inexcusable.

amen.  if godwin turns his head around, this would’ve made 13 seconds look like good defense.  

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

exactly. anyone watching this and not realizing 13 seconds was a thing, the giants game was a thing, the hopkins pass was a thing... this team is prone exactly to this. it's an Achilles heel

13 seconds happened because we played the sidelines aggressively - did everyone forget that?

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

13 seconds happened because we played the sidelines aggressively - did everyone forget that?

KC had three timeouts, though. Very different situation. Here's what I'll say about 13 seconds: it wasn't a crazy or outlier outcome for Mahomes to hit two passes to elite receivers over the course of two plays against a D they had been shredding. The issue was always the kickoff out of the end zone.

[Nephilim17]

Isn't there a How Not To Lose Games In The Last 13 to 20 Seconds Summit McD can attend in the off-season?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

19 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

13 seconds happened because we played the sidelines aggressively - did everyone forget that?

And giving 25-yards of cushion to Tyreek Hill while still rushing 4 in a situation you know that Mahomes has to get rid of the ball and you have no chance to get there. 

 

Saw it blow up in your face immediately for an easy 25 yard gain, and then do it again . 

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:

With only 20 seconds left and deep in their own territory, I don't care about a 30 yard throw in the middle of the field. By the time they get up there to spike the ball, it would take up a significant amount of time. Better than letting them complete 10 yard sideline passes all the way up the field and stopping the clock

Do you not realize it is the exact same outcome? Both get them in range for the hail mary.

[Drew21PA]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

to be faaairrr.....

 

baker sort of gave up on that when i think he heard the whistle

Mayyyyyybe

[I'm Spartacus]

When the staff does the game reviews (or tape), I wonder if McDermott's assistants suggest a better or different decision to be made? I realize hindsight is 20, 20 but McDermott's head scratching calls suggest he's not very good at game time decision making. Is he too stubborn to listen to constructive criticism, or are his assistants to afraid to contradict him?

[zow2]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Normally I’d say it’s not a big deal, but Mayfield has the arm to reach the end zone from his own 35-40 yard line.  He’s shown that in the past.  The goal should’ve been staying out of his range to reach the end zone, not taking 4 seconds off clock.  Mac Jones or Deshaun Watson, yeah I’m trading 7-10 yards for 4 seconds there because there’s not enough time for them to reach the end zone.  

 

Only the Bills D and us fans are scared of the 60-65 yard hail mary.  It's a terrifying play for us, as we have to hope our DB's can track the long bomb (which they cannot)...and also hope the refs keep the flags in their pockets on the obvious muggings going on in the end zone.  

[Old Coot]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Point is, the clock was the Bucs main enemy. Allowing them to use the sidelines with ease--with the result being four legit plays with 21 seconds and no timeouts--strikes me as pretty bad tactics.

I agree with you in theory. But remember that the D is playing with a bunch of 2d stringers. If you try to cover deep and aggressively on the sidelines you may allow a deep completion. In that situation I'd prefer to let the CBs cover deep and leave the sidelines for the LBs. Problem is, most LBs don't have the speed to cover a WR to the sideline. Use CBs to cover the sideline and Boom, they hit a deep pass.

 

I remember I think the Pats game when they had Hyde on a WR one on one and the WR burned him for a TD

[colin]

our team is horrible in key situational football scenarios.  for all our ability to score at the end of halfs, allen is what, 0-6 in over time games?

 

we have competent coaches all week, but on game day we have some real morons.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The last minute situational stupidity started just before that on ST's with the decision to take the timeout instead of the 5 yard delay of game and then trying to drop the punt inside the 10.    It's not the second quarter.........you don't need to put them at the 2 yard line to preserve the win.   Give Haack the space.   That ball just needs to come down at the 10 yard line.    Make them field it after they fumbled prior.    Instead they go for the pin again and the play ends up in a touchback.     On a much smaller note,  no reason to waste a timeout there in the event something went haywire and you get the ball back with 13 seconds needing a score.   

 

McDermott has always been bad at closing out games. 13 seconds, the Hail Murray, this year alone all 3 of our losses came at least partially because of poor coaching decisions near the end. It's a huge concern for trying to win a championship, we can't keep faltering in those critical moments in high leverage situations.

[Livinginthepast]

McD almost coached the team out of a win last night. You would love to believe that he learned from 13 seconds but last night would teach you otherwise.  So many questionable if not stupid decisions last night, joined by his defensive team that made several ill advised decisions and gaffes.

[Buffalo03]

30 minutes ago, MJS said:

Do you not realize it is the exact same outcome? Both get them in range for the hail mary.

Depending on how long the play takes, they may not be able to get up to the line in time to spike it. The odds of completing a 30 yard pass down the field is harder than hitting little 10 yard sideline routed that only take 3 seconds off the clock. If they still have a chance at a Hail Mary, so be it. I'd rather not give them 5 plays, I'd rather only give them 1 or maybe 2

[jkeerie]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’re forgetting that McD would’ve called timeouts for them! 😂

All of McD's timeouts were called with the clock already stopped due to incompletions etc.  The only one that fried my bacon was the very last one that was called so late.  I know he likes to see what the offensive setup is, but that one gave Baker time to go to the sideline to talk with his OC.

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

All of McD's timeouts were called with the clock already stopped due to incompletions etc.  The only one that fried my bacon was the very last one that was called so late.  I know he likes to see what the offensive setup is, but that one gave Baker time to go to the sideline to talk with his OC.

The one i didn’t understand was calling a timeout so early when the Bucs were scrambling to get their field goal team on. Why call it early? If you want to ice the kicker you wait. If you want to change your personnel, you wait. At the very least you wait for no other reason than to let time run off the clock.
 

Very odd! 

Edited October 27, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[boyst]

1 hour ago, HoofHearted said:

13 seconds happened because we played the sidelines aggressively - did everyone forget that?

Not my point. We played way too conservatively and didn't plan well