Do You Still "TRUST THE PROCESS"?

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Gunner I don't disagree with anything you've said in this thread. The loss falls almost exclusively on Josh. But I sometimes get the sense that Dorsey is feeding into those bad habits. The 2nd INT is a good example. That was clearly a designed shot play. Sherfield was supposed to take Whitehead's attention to give Diggs a 1v1 downfield - I'm sure Whitehead got a kick out of that. He smartly ignored Sherfield and drifted backwards into the window of the obvious shot play.

 

So the first thing about this play is that Allen should not have thrown the ball, everyone agrees with that. It's on him to identify that Whitehead didn't bite on Sherfield and either throw the ball away or eat the sack. But we're in a close game against a backup QB where one more FG probably wins the game and Dorsey dials up a shot play for his hyped up arm arrogance QB. Don't you think that is a little bit of a poor coaching job there, while also acknowledging that it is still primarily Josh's fault?

 

I have made criticisms of Dorsey going back to the middle of last season. I'm far from sold on him as a coordinator. I put myself through the pain of the all-22 of that game last night and I really struggled to come up with anything Dorsey could have done much different other than just totally take the ball out of his hands and run Cook / Harris / Murray from the moment of the 2nd pick. The decision making was bafflingly bad. Forget the 3 picks for a moment. There are at least half a dozen other plays where you just scratch your head and ask WTF is he thinking? So to get into the minutiae of play calling from this game just feels like such a side show. 

[boyst]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Then he has to play like it. 

Of course. And I am not sure if Sunday was a bad game or part of a trend but he has been regressing over a period of over a year now. 

[MJS]

I'm a firm supporter of Beane and McDermott. They've earned our trust, in my opinion, and I don't think they deserve even half the criticism they get.

 

So, yes. I trust the process. I feel like perhaps a lot of fans don't watch other teams and don't see the blunders that happen by even the best the NFL has to offer, and they have this unrealistic expectation of perfection that just doesn't exist as a possibility in the NFL.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

Of course. And I am not sure if Sunday was a bad game or part of a trend but he has been regressing over a period of over a year now. 

 

I think it is just under a year, but since the middle of last season he has played basically one great Josh Allen game - Miami home in the regular season. Everything else has been scratchy. 

 

I think undoubtedly there are multiple contributory factors to that. I certainly don't absolve coaching for all of it. I do think Monday was pretty much solely on Josh. The overall decline in his play you have to look deeper - at the impact that 2 years behind a ***** line has had, at the scheme, at the coaching structure around him.... but I do think there is something off with Josh Allen. At the moment he does not look capable of being the generational talent we know he can be. I maintain that there is something away from the football field that is affecting the kid. He doesn't sound the same. Watch his post Jacksonville presser from 2021 when he was furious with how he had played. Watch the presser from Monday and it was like he was resigned to it. I think he needs a shrink more than a coach. 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

I'm a firm supporter of Beane and McDermott. They've earned our trust, in my opinion, and I don't think they deserve even half the criticism they get.

 

So, yes. I trust the process. I feel like perhaps a lot of fans don't watch other teams and don't see the blunders that happen by even the best the NFL has to offer, and they have this unrealistic expectation of perfection that just doesn't exist as a possibility in the NFL.

 

I’m with you, behind our GM and HC for now. But the process used to put more value on coordinators. We recently had a former HC as DC and a future HC as OC. Now we have no DC, a stretched HC and a new(ish) OC who has proven little to date. 

 

It seems there may be a bit of a brain drain, but Josh getting his head together is the critical issue. 

 

[boyst]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it is just under a year, but since the middle of last season he has played basically one great Josh Allen game - Miami home in the regular season. Everything else has been scratchy. 

 

I think undoubtedly there are multiple contributory factors to that. I certainly don't absolve coaching for all of it. I do think Monday was pretty much solely on Josh. The overall decline in his play you have to look deeper - at the impact that 2 years behind a ***** line has had, at the scheme, at the coaching structure around him.... but I do think there is something off with Josh Allen. At the moment he does not look capable of being the generational talent we know he can be. I maintain that there is something away from the football field that is affecting the kid. He doesn't sound the same. Watch his post Jacksonville presser from 2021 when he was furious with how he had played. Watch the presser from Monday and it was like he was resigned to it. I think he needs a shrink more than a coach. 

I had noticed something and hadn't been sure. This maybe the nail on the head.

[HIT BY SPIKES]

5 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

I never really did trust the process . I always felt like McBeane are like a couple politicians big talk no real action. I realize they are builders but not real architects meaning they can take a program and turn it around with basics like culture and being very organized instilling work ethic etc etc basically the really good at the small things we don’t see on a day to day basis . 
 

What there not good at is obvious and no one can tell me anything different it is asset management and drafting. The 2017 draft was constructed by Whaley and his scouting staff as well as the free agent period we hit jackpots on Tre, Dion, Milano and in free agency we got Hyde & Poyer . Till this day these guys are still foundational pieces for this organization. In 2018 Beane got his chance at the draft and also started with a bang drafting the likes of Allen, Edmunds, Taron and Teller . But the problem started in the upcoming draft starting in 2019 let’s take a look . 
 

2019 draft 

1st rd Ed Oliver - has turned out to be the worst of a great class of DTs as all the players drafted after him in the first are much better then him Wilkins, Lawrence & Simmons are all studs . 
 

2nd rd -Cody Ford Bust we also traded up for this bust so it hurt more then 1 Pk 

 

3rd Singletary - obvious bkup caliber running  bk 

 

3rd Knox - probably the best Pk in this draft 

the rest of this draft are all out of the league.

 

2020 I call this one JAG CITY!

 

2nd rd Epenesa - Jag

3rd rd Moss  - bkup caliber  🗑 

4th rd Gabe - good #2 Wr best Pk of draft

5th - Bass good kicker

6th - Hodgins solid Wr good role player on another team

7th Dane Jackson - solid #2 CB 

 

A bunch of singles no home runs and it’s about to get worse in upcoming drafts. 
 

2021 - It’s about to get Worse 😂 

 

1st - Rouse - So far he’s grown every yr and might be headed for pro bowl considerations this yr easily the best Pk of this draft . 

 

2nd Boogie- Major Bust

3rd Spencer Brown- Horrible starting RT more suited for bkup role

5th - Tommy Doyle 🗑 

6th- Stevenson 🗑 

6th - Hamlin bkup at best

6th- Wildgoose 🗑 

7th- Anderson 🗑 

 

this draft was a disaster other then Rouse 

 

2022

1st- Elam so far he’s in street clothes not a good sign 

 

2nd Cook- I know he starts but he’s not a starter in this league he’s more suited for pass catching work essentially he’s a 3rd down back even his college team knew this somehow the Bills didn’t get the memo . Btw can’t break a tackle if his life depends on it. 

3rd Bernard- Undersized more like tweener type player seen him get abused by TEs against the Jets not a hood sign .

 

5th Shakir - Might have talent but so far role player 

 

6th- Benford So far he’s the best Pk of this draft looks like a good player that can play in this league . 
 

6th Tenuta 🗑 

7th Spector 🗑 

 

Now these drafts are less then average after the 2018 draft seems like at best a bunch of role players . Basically McBeane is the Ichiro Suzuki of NFL draft they get on base but no home runs . But he’s more like the older version of Ichiro not the hof version, 😂.  
 

Basically these guys have peaked at there build of this team. We need someone to come in a add to what they have done to finish the job. We need to get a regime that can build a wall in front of Allen protect him give him some difference makers which this team is lacking big time. We need an offensive minded head coach that can properly manage lead Josh Allen to reaching his potential. We need real running backs that are big strong 3 down backs not these bkup caliber players McBeane has brought us at the position. Seems like every running back they bring here is either old and past there primes or just small and underwhelming like Singletary and Cook . McBeane is the worst regime I ever seen at scouting running back talent in Bills history.  No so I don’t buy in on the process I would actually love to see the process shipped out! 

 

I agree.

 

Does Terry Pegula have the stomach for this change given the circumstances?

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

5 hours ago, uticaclub said:

The Process got us from 7-9 forever to contenders. The Process peaked, getting blown out in the AFCC, and we have regressed yearly. There was no contingency plan, and the team will continue to regress until we blow it up and start in a new direction.

BUT WHAT IS THE PROCESS!!!!! I need to KNOW!!!  😱

[CaliBills]

woooweeee 

Can't wait to overturn GM and HC again and become bottom of the AFC East yet again.....

 

 

[HIT BY SPIKES]

7 minutes ago, CaliBills said:

woooweeee 

Can't wait to overturn GM and HC again and become bottom of the AFC East yet again.....

 

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Yes, the process is working.  Didn't the announcer say we had the second best record overalll for the last 3 years.  We'll be good this year as well.

[Fan in Chicago]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Based on what? I don't think it is coaching. Josh has always been an impulsive football player. It was one of the things I didn't like on hi Wyoming tape he was so instinctive I didn't always see evidence that he could win his brain. There was a period in 2020 however when he seemed master of all he commanded. I just fear we haven't seen that for some time. Could it be that coaching has 'caused' a regression? I mean it could but I am not sold that there is any real evidence to support that. I think the impulsiveness of Josh as a personality is just taking over. Almost like Mr Hyde is breaking out over the cerebral De Jekyll. That impulsiveness has always been there. It is controlling his mind that I think we need to address. I'd start with a psychologist not a football coach. 

 

I also think, and I have said this elsewhere, that there is something outside of football going on at the moment. He looked like a zombie in the playoff loss to Cincy and it was the same on Monday. I remember when Josh would get mad at himself about mistakes. Or he'd get flustered. We are not even seeing that at the moment we are seeing a guy who mentally just doesn't look dialled in, doesn't sound dialled in when he speaks. His post game presser was odd. I'm not saying it is the Hollywood girlfriend or anything else specifically. I don't know. But something is off with him. 

 

Agree, so would I. But I'm not sure moving on from the coaching staff if we have a Quarterback issue this season should be the answer either. We have to find solutions. 

Agree word for word. I am done with this "coaching is the only thing holding us back". It did in the 13 second game but not since the GB game last year. 

[Joe Ferguson]

Wimpy McD set the tone by kicking a field goal deep in Jets territory on 4th and short. You have a 6'-5" monster unicorn as your QB and Wimpy McD decided to wimp out! This forced Allen to play hero ball. Wimpy McD will  forever be a useless coach playing scared and playing not to lose. 

[PBF81]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:37 PM, HIT BY SPIKES said:

(4) Do you still TRUST THE PROCESSTM?

 

What even is "The Process"?

 

Has it ever been defined?

 

Seems as if it's always been a phrase that McD threw out there whenever things didn't go right or acceptably.  

 

Kinda difficult to trust something when you haven't even been informed as to what it is.  

 

AKA, just trust me, everything will be fine.  

 

 

[HIT BY SPIKES]

6 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

What even is "The Process"?

 

Has it ever been defined?

 

Seems as if it's always been a phrase that McD threw out there whenever things didn't go right or acceptably.  

 

Kinda difficult to trust something when you haven't even been informed as to what it is.  

 

AKA, just trust me, everything will be fine.  

 

 

 

Defining "The Process" would only result in more accountability of the regime.

 

Why would they want to do that?

 

 

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, HIT BY SPIKES said:

Defining "The Process" would only result in more accountability of the regime.

 

Why would they want to do that?

 

Exactly!

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:42 AM, MAJBobby said:

I think we have a very good FO.

 

I am unsure about the HC

 

I have no issues with the Ownership

 

 

I like Pegula & Beane.  I was done with Sean after 13 seconds.  That game showed me all I want to know about his in game flaws.  And besides I never trust anyone who requires a slogan (trust the process) to get their point across. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

On 9/12/2023 at 12:46 PM, dorquemada said:

Yeah this team isn't going to win because of McD, but rather despite him.

 

The league has figured out Allen. 

 

The league has figured out that the Bills statistically dominant D can be run against and always gets soft in crunch time

 

Beane has largely refused to address the OL (maybe a little better this year?  wouldnt know from last night) but keeps spending high draft picks on gimmick players and stockpiling middling D linemen

 

McD is an old skool defensive minded coach playing checkers and everyone else is creating 4D chess offenses.

 

Long story short, yeah they might backdoor into the playoffs this year but unless Allen gets his head strait 8-9 wins is probably the ceiling, and we're right back to the middle draft slot trap

 

The league has figured out Allen? He had 42 combined TD's last year, just nonsense, we have a gunslinger who is sometimes annoyingly careless with the ball. You have to take the good with the bad, it's just going to happen but figured out? We were also 13-3 despite a bunch of obstacles. 

 

 

[HIT BY SPIKES]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I like Pegula & Beane.  I was done with Sean after 13 seconds.  That game showed me all I want to know about his in game flaws.  And besides I never trust anyone who requires a slogan (trust the process) to get their point across. 

 

Can I ask you what you like about Pegula?

[QCity]

7 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

What even is "The Process"?

 

Has it ever been defined?

 

That phrase is nothing more than marketing speak for a rebuild. That's it. Nothing more. 

 

It was first used over 10 years ago when the 76ers new GM wanted to rebuild and dealt away their only All-Star, Jrue Holiday. The Philly fanbase was apoplectic, and the "Trust The Process" slogan was used to comfort their nerves and calm them down (of course it also became a rallying cry).

 

The same thing happened here when we jettisoned Dareus and Watkins - our fanbase had a complete meltdown and the phrase was used to settle everyone down akin to waving shiny keys in front of a crying infant. It's not a secret, next-level plan or some mystical force.

 

P.S. 11 years later the 76ers still haven't reached the title game.

[BananaB]

Nope. started losing faith last year when Hyde went down and Poyer starting missing a little time. Backups were on the roster for a few years and they looked ***** lost on the field. Kind of makes me worry about any young player who’s not seeing the field. Spent a lot of draft picks on that dline and keep bringing in aging players to get the job done. Beane adding guys to the offense that all were unable to hold starting jobs on other teams. He bargain basement shopping hoping to get lucky and it hardly pans out. There is also the fact we are giving a couple guys too much leeway with their job. Davis and Brown are really playing with little consistency but it seems it doesn’t matter. They work hard so that’s enough.  It’s just not looking good right now and I said all offseason they didn’t do enough to improve the roster.  

Gotta be change at some point but for the Bills it looks like it might be all at once. Can’t rely on aging players forever

Edited September 15, 2023 by BananaB

[Scott7975]

The process needs to get over the hump. I started to doubt it after 13 seconds. Then last year with the mental exhaustion excuses. Let’s see what happens this year. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, QCity said:

That phrase is nothing more than marketing speak for a rebuild. That's it. Nothing more. 

 

 

That, as a former coach, is not what I understand trust the process to mean. I understand trust the process to mean do not fixate on outcomes, because outcomes are ultimately impacted by a degree of randomness. Instead you must trust the process which is are you making the right decisions and working in the right way on a granular level day to do that increase your chance of a positive outcome allowing for the randomness. Basically if you trust in your process on a day to day basis, you practice properly, you look after your body properly, you study film properly, you learn the game plan properly then over time your results will reflect that. We have a phrase over here in the UK... look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.... and it is the same principle. Get the preparation right the results will come. 

 

The reason it tends to be a mantra of rebuilding teams is because in the early stages if a rebuild quite often the outcomes (i.e. the results) are going to be difficult. It is a way of keeping your players focussed on their improvement. Don't worry that we lost on Sunday, as long as we are getting everything right Monday through Saturday that will eventually turn around.... so trust the process. 

[BananaB]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That, as a former coach, is not what I understand trust the process to mean. I understand trust the process to mean do not fixate on outcomes, because outcomes are ultimately impacted by a degree of randomness. Instead you must trust the process which is are you making the right decisions and working in the right way on a granular level day to do that increase your chance of a positive outcome allowing for the randomness. Basically if you trust in your process on a day to day basis, you practice properly, you look after your body properly, you study film properly, you learn the game plan properly then over time your results will reflect that. We have a phrase over here in the UK... look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.... and it is the same principle. Get the preparation right the results will come. 

 

The reason it tends to be a mantra of rebuilding teams is because in the early stages if a rebuild quite often the outcomes (i.e. the results) are going to be difficult. It is a way of keeping your players focussed on their improvement. Don't worry that we lost on Sunday, as long as we are getting everything right Monday through Saturday that will eventually turn around.... so trust the process. 

It’s not working here because young players seem to never be ready when their time is called. That’s why we hold onto the aging vets. So something is not going right from Monday to Saturday and coaching staff has to be held accountable if you believe what you say

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, BananaB said:

It’s not working here because young players seem to never be ready when their time is called. That’s why we hold onto the aging vets. So something is not going right from Monday to Saturday and coaching staff has to be held accountable if you believe what you say

 

Which young player wasn't ready? James Cook? Kincaid? Torrence? Benford? They all looked pretty ready to me. 

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which young player wasn't ready? James Cook? Kincaid? Torrence? Benford? They all looked pretty ready to me. 

To be fair Gunner you have to take Kincaid and Torrence off your list. They just got here. They’re not really part of your well described ‘process’. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

To be fair Gunner you have to take Kincaid and Torrence off your list. They just got here. They’re not really part of your well described ‘process’. 

 

His point was young players don't look ready.... they looked pretty ready. If the point he was trying to make is that the two former 6th round draft picks who were our depth at safety last season were not all pros.... well I am not sure that is a reflection on anything other than the realities of salary cap and draft induced parity in the NFL. 

[SirAndrew]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

To be fair Gunner you have to take Kincaid and Torrence off your list. They just got here. They’re not really part of your well described ‘process’. 

Yes, I think he’s more referring to players like Elam who doesn’t see the field, and guys like Basham who get traded before seeing much of the field. That is problematic with high draft choices, but there’s a fine line between coaching and poor drafting. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

His point was young players don't look ready.... they looked pretty ready. If the point he was trying to make is that the two former 6th round draft picks who were our depth at safety last season were not all pros.... well I am not sure that is a reflection on anything other than the realities of salary cap and draft induced parity in the NFL. 

Yes and no. I think if the process is working then you’d see a well developed ‘next man up’ routine in which players are released (ie Edmunds) but the process has last years back ups ready to step in and fill the void. One game is obviously not long enough to be a trend of anything but I’m likewise concerned that the Bills appear to be hanging on to some underperforming veterans (Poyer and Hyde) and not seeing the development of those backups (Epenesa and Basham) that the process ‘should’ take care of. 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Yes and no. I think if the process is working then you’d see a well developed ‘next man up’ routine in which players are released (ie Edmunds) but the process has last years back ups ready to step in and fill the void. One game is obviously not long enough to be a trend of anything but I’m likewise concerned that the Bills appear to be hanging on to some underperforming veterans (Poyer and Hyde) and not seeing the development of those backups (Epenesa and Basham) that the process ‘should’ take care of. 

 

I think they have missed on some draft picks. Don't think there is any dispute about that. I don't think that is coaching not having guys ready. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think they have missed on some draft picks. Don't think there is any dispute about that. I don't think that is coaching not having guys ready. 

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

[Royale with Cheese]

7 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Yes, I think he’s more referring to players like Elam who doesn’t see the field, and guys like Basham who get traded before seeing much of the field. That is problematic with high draft choices, but there’s a fine line between coaching and poor drafting. 

 

Yes we've had players that didn't work out just like every team.  We also have had picks that work out but those are overlooked because people (not saying you) want to hold onto the failures.

 

If you can get two starters out of each draft class, you did pretty well.  If you get 3, you had a great draft.

 

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2022/4/26/23042105/nfl-draft-pick-bust-rate-remains-very-high

 

 

 

 

The graph above breaks down the percentage of players, broken down by round in which they were drafted (R1, R2, etc.) and whether they signed a second contract with the team that drafted them (same team) or a different team. The results aren’t particularly good- even among first-round draft picks.

For example, among first-round draft picks selected between 2010-2017, only 31% signed a second contract with the team that drafted them.

 

Now that doesn’t mean that 69% of first-round draft picks during that period were total busts, but in most cases it meant the team didn’t value them enough to extend them. Comparing them to the previous study, these would be players in the average or worse categories, but some in the ‘good’ category as well.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

We should be way past this by now. 

 

This isn't about culture anymore, we need talent, we need a Top 5 offense, a consistent Josh Allen. 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

I’m taking a wait and see approach.  If we don’t make it to the Super Bowl in year 5 with an aging roster we need a new process

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

 

Allen was a top 7 pick right?  After Allen, how many top 7 NFL offensive talent have we drafted?

Not saying you, but I've had discussions with people about the Bengals draft and some arguments were "The Bengals got Chase for Burrow and we didn't do that for Allen."  Well, Chase was a top 5 pick.  That year, we picked I think in the mid 20's.  

 

The Chiefs, since they have won 2 Super Bowls in the last 4 years.  

In the last few drafts, what stand out offensive player have they drafted?

Sky Moore?  Mecole Hardman?

 

Not saying the Chiefs suck at drafting but you're not going to have as many big hits if you're drafting the the 20's and 30's all the time.

[SirAndrew]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

I worry it’s far too easy for young players to enter McD’s doghouse. Elam is the first player I think of. It seems like guys enter that doghouse, and don’t get a chance to learn on the field. That’s fine for a college coach, next man up really is true, but in the pros you’ve invested in these guys. It’s like giving up on a new boat at the first repair. It just doesn’t make sense at this level. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

We should be way past this by now. 

 

This isn't about culture anymore, we need talent, we need a Top 5 offense, a consistent Josh Allen. 

Definitely….but…this specific thread is about The Process. That term doesn’t refer to drafting players with exceptional talent. As I understand it that term refers to an internal system at OBD that develops players once they’re here. When I saw Coach McD, on national television, pointing at his brain and yelling at Josh to play smart football last Monday night it leads me to believe that The Process sure as heck isn’t working. 

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Allen was a top 7 pick right?  After Allen, how many top 7 NFL offensive talent have we drafted?

Not saying you, but I've had discussions with people about the Bengals draft and some arguments were "The Bengals got Chase for Burrow and we didn't do that for Allen."  Well, Chase was a top 5 pick.  That year, we picked I think in the mid 20's.  

 

The Chiefs, since they have won 2 Super Bowls in the last 4 years.  

In the last few drafts, what stand out offensive player have they drafted?

Sky Moore?  Mecole Hardman?

 

Not saying the Chiefs suck at drafting but you're not going to have as many big hits if you're drafting the the 20's and 30's all the time.

See my comment above. This thread is about The Process. It’s NOT about the draft. 

[mjd1001]

What is "the process" we are supposed to trust.

 

The "process" I like is being patient, developing from within, not giving out terrible contracts.  The Bills are kinda hit-and-miss with that.

 

For example, I like Von Miller, but I wasn't all for giving him that contract.  I understand why he did it, but to me that money could have been better spent on upgrading the OL.  So to me, "the process" is different from what others want it to be.  I think from the Bills point of view, "the process" is just asking fans to be patient with WHATEVER they choose to do.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I worry it’s far too easy for young players to enter McD’s doghouse. Elam is the first player I think of. It seems like guys enter that doghouse, and don’t get a chance to learn on the field. That’s fine for a college coach, next man up really is true, but in the pros you’ve invested in these guys. It’s like giving up on a new boat at the first repair. It just doesn’t make sense at this level. 

 

Do you feel that regardless of how they perform in camp or practice, it doesn't matter and they should play regardless?

 

If Benford in camp completely outplays Elam, Elam should start because he was a higher draft pick?

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Gunner, if your description of the process is correct (and I truly believe that it is) then it should correct for that. I cannot accept that draft picks have been totally ‘missed’. These are all elite athletes. The process should take guys who might not transition from college to pro as well as others and smooth over that transition so they’re ready to compete.

 

Look at it another way. On offense, we a total of ONE player that’s a league wide standout from the process (Allen). On defense, I’m not sure we have any. Milano and Tre have both been here a long time now. Floyd, Miller, Poyer and Hyde all came here via some other team’s process.  Where’s the young standout? Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

 

So the process only counts if you were drafted by the Bills and only counts if you were drafted after Josh? I'm confused as to your parameters.