first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 On 6/23/2023 at 8:44 AM, mjt328 said: Every time Brandon Beane talked this offseason, he mentioned getting the offense MORE weapons. He was limited in cap space and there weren't a bunch of options, but he still signed two free agent receivers (Trent Sherfield and Deonte Harty). We know he explored signing Odell Beckham and acquiring DeAndre Hopkins. In the draft, he ended up getting the best receiving Tight End (Dalton Kincaid) and adding another receiver (Justin Shorter). Everyone knows the Bills are inside a rapidly closing Super Bowl window. Everyone in the organization has acknowledged that. There isn't a single example in the last 2-3 seasons of us doing anything that could possibly be viewed as a rebuild or reset. Beane's moves have all been about trying to win a championship right now, with a little bit of care to not totally mortgaging the future. The idea he would trade away Stefon Diggs is laughable. Not only because it would completely blow-up our Super Bowl aspirations, but because it would also cause dead-cap problems. It would pretty much be the opposite strategy of every move Beane has made recently. Regardless of whether Diggs is causing issues internally (which is entirely possible), the Bills know they NEED him badly and couldn't realistically move on financially if they wanted to. I absolutely believe more is going on with Diggs than our front office is currently admitting. It could stem from a multitude of issues, up to and including anger with the coaching staff, gameplan, team acquisitions, or personal beef with other players. All of these possibilities are on the table. But nobody outside of a select few people on this planet know the truth, and the Bills are notoriously tight-lipped with allowing leaks. The media is desperate to milk this story during the NFL's slowest time of year, but they can't get anything concrete. So as usual, they are just running with rumors from anonymous sources. It's pathetic. I just don't agree with "Everyone in the organization has acknowledged" that the Super Bowl window is rapidly closing. Brandon Beane has said that he wants to build a team that always has a chance of winning every year. The window is far from rapidly closing. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: Buncha malarkey. Dead cap dead cap dead cap dead cap. Go listen to Greg Tomsett, the Cap expert at Cover 1. The Bills will not be able to function as a team next year if we trade Diggs. I’m not advocating trading Diggs. But this data isn’t fully correct and it needs to not be parroted if we are going to keep having this conversation. Keeping Diggs on the roster this year and next eats up approximately $42M in cap space. Trading Diggs today means that he eats up approximately $45M in cap space over the next two years. That is not $45M more against the cap than his current cost. It’s just $45M compared to $42M. A $3M difference is not what would hold anything back. The real issue would likely be getting enough value in return. We would need a quality no. 1 WR in return for at least a year. That WR would also likely eat an additional $15-20M. Thats the contract that would be prohibitive given our overall cap situation. Add in the fact that the Bills would probably also want a high draft pick in addition to the player. It’s a lot of compensation. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephilim17 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mango said: I’m not advocating trading Diggs. But this data isn’t fully correct and it needs to not be parroted if we are going to keep having this conversation. Keeping Diggs on the roster this year and next eats up approximately $42M in cap space. Trading Diggs today means that he eats up approximately $45M in cap space over the next two years. That is not $45M more against the cap than his current cost. It’s just $45M compared to $42M. A $3M difference is not what would hold anything back. The real issue would likely be getting enough value in return. We would need a quality no. 1 WR in return for at least a year. That WR would also likely eat an additional $15-20M. Thats the contract that would be prohibitive given our overall cap situation. Add in the fact that the Bills would probably also want a high draft pick in addition to the player. It’s a lot of compensation. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/ A very interesting (and truthful) way to frame this... Of course it would leave a gaping hole in the roster for a WR 1 — and we don't have the the cap space to replace him with Hopkins. This idea — as an theoretical exercise only — seems to make sense if the trade involves a WR 1 on a rookie deal (in additional to any other draft pick compensation). Jerry Jeudy, as an example, has a cap hit of $2.7 million this year. I'm guessing that could be managed to fit if the Bills wanted that deal. Not saying it should be done, but it could — IF the Bills wanted a young WR on a rookie deal — to replace Stef. The question would then be, why would another team trade a good WR 1 on a rookie deal for an aging Diggs on a huge contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Has anyone thought of the fact that what Diggs just did may actually help this team win? He may have just given Josh Allen, Sean McDermott, Ken Dorsey, et al a wake up call!! Diggs wants to win. He come in, sees the same offense being run, sees Josh Allen all over the television at every golf tournament he can possibly get to, sees him all over the internet , not because he's trying to get better at football, but because he's dating a movie star. He knows Ken Dorsey got outcoached badly by the Cincy DC. He knows all to well that it was McDermott's fault they lost the 13 second game. Maybe he sees the same old same old, and feels he needs to rock the boat and wake them up!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, first_and_ten said: Has anyone thought of the fact that what Diggs just did may actually help this team win? He may have just given Josh Allen, Sean McDermott, Ken Dorsey, et al a wake up call!! Diggs wants to win. He come in, sees the same offense being run, sees Josh Allen all over the television at every golf tournament he can possibly get to, sees him all over the internet , not because he's trying to get better at football, but because he's dating a movie star. He knows Ken Dorsey got outcoached badly by the Cincy DC. He knows all to well that it was McDermott's fault they lost the 13 second game. Maybe he sees the same old same old, and feels he needs to rock the boat and wake them up!!! So you think those three have done nothing this off-season to improve? That they aren’t all in to win? Wasn’t Diggs just in France? Come on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: So you think those three have done nothing this off-season to improve? That they aren’t all in to win? Wasn’t Diggs just in France? Come on now. I'm just coming from the perspective of how Diggs might perceive things. Besides, all the golfing outings Allen has been seen at, and the new star romantic partner he's been seen with. I think it's fair to ask if he works as hard now as he did going into his second season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, first_and_ten said: I'm just coming from the perspective of how Diggs might perceive things. Besides, all the golfing outings Allen has been seen at, and the new star romantic partner he's been seen with. I think it's fair to ask if he works as hard now as he did going into his second season. According to josh he is more locked in than ever before and that his #1 goal in life is to bring a championship home to Buffalo. Diggs is okay, if we are being honest a little small. He drops balls sometimes too and makes errors, seen it time and again. Pointing fingers and blame game is not conducive to a good working relationship and not really a great attitude for a championship contender to have. Diggs dont know how to act right like lots of #1 guys they get egotistical and think they are gods gift and its everyone elses fault. I like diggs, hes great. But for all this bull#### hes started since last season ended up until now, i dont really think hes the guy he thinks he is. Edited June 25, 2023 by BillsFan692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, BillsFan692 said: According to josh he is more locked in than ever before and that his #1 goal in life is to bring a championship home to Buffalo. Of course he's going to say that. I hope he has a great year, but remember what I said if he doesn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan692 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, first_and_ten said: Of course he's going to say that. I hope he has a great year, but remember what I said if he doesn't. I have no idea what you said honestly but why would we be turning on josh and not taking him at face value? He is like, the single best thing that has ever happened to this football team. If there was a battle between diggs and josh (which there isnt) its pretty obnoxious to take diggs side over joshes lmao Edited June 25, 2023 by BillsFan692 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said: I have no idea what you said honestly but why would we be turning on josh and not taking him at face value? He is like, the single best thing that has ever happened to this football team. If there was a battle between diggs and josh (which there isnt) its pretty obnoxious to take diggs side over joshes lmao I'm not taking anyone's side. Not sure why taking Diggs side over Allen would be some kind of sacrilege anyway...kind of a weird statement there, but anyways, I hope Josh proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, first_and_ten said: I just don't agree with "Everyone in the organization has acknowledged" that the Super Bowl window is rapidly closing. Brandon Beane has said that he wants to build a team that always has a chance of winning every year. The window is far from rapidly closing. Well there is probably a correlation between those who think they are in hot seat and those who say that the Super Bowl window is rapidly closing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Well there is probably a correlation between those who think they are in hot seat and those who say that the Super Bowl window is rapidly closing. Yeah ok, but this opinion is not coming from inside the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, first_and_ten said: Yeah ok, but this opinion is not coming from inside the organization. Nope. Talk radio is where they gather like the old up'Chuck Dickerson fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Nope. Talk radio is where they gather like the old up'Chuck Dickerson fans. 😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 This false story still persisting here I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: This false story still persisting here I see Stories on Josh Allen made by draft gurus persisted for three years even after they were proved wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 49 minutes ago, first_and_ten said: I'm just coming from the perspective of how Diggs might perceive things. Besides, all the golfing outings Allen has been seen at, and the new star romantic partner he's been seen with. I think it's fair to ask if he works as hard now as he did going into his second season. Which one showed up to voluntary OTA's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Which one showed up to voluntary OTA's? Diggs did show up, and left for what may turn out to be good reasons. Josh Allen shows up for all the pro golf tournaments too. That's my concern. Is he as committed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Almighty Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 8 minutes ago, first_and_ten said: Diggs did show up, and left for what may turn out to be good reasons. Josh Allen shows up for all the pro golf tournaments too. That's my concern. Is he as committed? Diggs showed up to mandatory not voluntary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 9 minutes ago, first_and_ten said: Diggs did show up, and left for what may turn out to be good reasons. Josh Allen shows up for all the pro golf tournaments too. That's my concern. Is he as committed? Diggs didn't show up to voluntary OTA's. He waited until mandatory mini camp to bring up his "issues" and then was the only one of 90 players to miss practice that day. The "he just wants to win" excuse is a slap in the face to everyone else on that roster who also wants to win but doesn't have to publicly throw a hissy fit on the field during a playoff game to show it. 7 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: Diggs showed up to mandatory not voluntary You're right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Doc Brown said: Diggs didn't show up to voluntary OTA's. He waited until mandatory mini camp to bring up his "issues" and then was the only one of 90 players to miss practice that day. The "he just wants to win" excuse is a slap in the face to everyone else on that roster who also wants to win but doesn't have to publicly throw a hissy fit on the field during a playoff game to show it. As I said, this might work out better than we think. Time will tell. I'm sure you will be cheering him on when he is catching touchdowns. Voluntary OTA's are just that, voluntary. Why would he show up to voluntary practices and do this? It wouldn't get his point across. If mandatory practice is so important, why did they cancel the last day? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, first_and_ten said: Has anyone thought of the fact that what Diggs just did may actually help this team win? He may have just given Josh Allen, Sean McDermott, Ken Dorsey, et al a wake up call!! Diggs wants to win. He come in, sees the same offense being run, sees Josh Allen all over the television at every golf tournament he can possibly get to, sees him all over the internet , not because he's trying to get better at football, but because he's dating a movie star. He knows Ken Dorsey got outcoached badly by the Cincy DC. He knows all to well that it was McDermott's fault they lost the 13 second game. Maybe he sees the same old same old, and feels he needs to rock the boat and wake them up!!! 2 minutes ago, first_and_ten said: As I said, this might work out better than we think. Time will tell. I'm sure you will be cheering him on when he is catching touchdowns. Voluntary OTA's are just that, voluntary. Why would he show up to voluntary practices and do this? It wouldn't get his point across. If mandatory practice is so important, why did they cancel the last day? Josh Allen showed up at all the voluntary OTA's. Diggs didn't. So to think that Diggs was trying to send a wake up call to Allen, McDermott, and Dorsey to work harder to win next season like he does is laughable. Come on man. Stop making excuses for his selfish behavior. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) I love that Diggs is so passionate about winning and it would be best if everyone shared that same energy. If he turned toxic to the point it's going to be a distraction for him and others then I would be open to trading him if somebody wanted to over pay. I don't think that will happen so even if he did turn very toxic he is going to have to deal with being stuck where he is at. You don't take contracts and get the convenience of jumping ship when you stop believing. Hopefully Diggs can channel that anger and put it into staying focused and be comfortable knowing he tried his best to get a ring and you still got phat stacks of cash to make you feel better. Edited June 25, 2023 by Lfod 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 I am not sure if Albright has a real source who told him this but if there is a real source then it is the Bills trying to send a message to Diggs. That being said every single player not named Josh is available under the proper conditions, we build around him and everyone else is secondary. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low Positive Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Orlando Tim said: I am not sure if Albright has a real source who told him this but if there is a real source then it is the Bills trying to send a message to Diggs. That being said every single player not named Josh is available under the proper conditions, we build around him and everyone else is secondary. If you scroll back a few pages, you’ll find Albright tweeting that the basis of this story was his idle speculation on a Broncos podcast. He admits that he has no source and was playing “what if.” Diggs’ contract is untradable. The Bills will have to make it work for the next two years. There is no other option. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 If they force the ball to Diggs there would be a lot of interceptions 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckets Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 1:42 PM, Big Turk said: Publicly they continue to say he isn't for trade, but apparently privately they would be open to it under the right circumstances...allegedly. If this report is true, what do you think the "right circumstances" would be? https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/bills-privately-open-traiding-stefon-diggs/amp/ I'm skeptical of all of these "reports" coming from unnamed sources, these guys have to come up with crap to stay relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, ALF said: If they force the ball to Diggs there would be a lot of interceptions Yes, especially since the entire league now knows to just double him like they did last year. Unless Kincaid or another wr rises up, it will be the same this year. Not having a semi competent WR2 really does hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, FrenchConnection said: If you scroll back a few pages, you’ll find Albright tweeting that the basis of this story was his idle speculation on a Broncos podcast. He admits that he has no source and was playing “what if.” Diggs’ contract is untradable. The Bills will have to make it work for the next two years. There is no other option. Which is why I'm wondering how this thread is still running and not locked. Threads have been locked that were more credible than this. 5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: Yes, especially since the entire league now knows to just double him like they did last year. Unless Kincaid or another wr rises up, it will be the same this year. Not having a semi competent WR2 really does hurt. Or unless the O-line steps up, or unless Dorsey stops calling deep out routes in the freezing snow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, ALF said: If they force the ball to Diggs there would be a lot of interceptions Maybe........but if the alternative is to target Davis 100+ times over 17 games........well, we know that that lead to a lot of interceptions and a very poor passer rating. Again.......we need to keep our fingers crossed that somebody on the roster turns into a better option than Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, FrenchConnection said: If you scroll back a few pages, you’ll find Albright tweeting that the basis of this story was his idle speculation on a Broncos podcast. He admits that he has no source and was playing “what if.” Diggs’ contract is untradable. The Bills will have to make it work for the next two years. There is no other option. I did not know all that, thanks. Diggs I think would be tradable for like 5 1st rounders but I am aware that there is not any team that will give up what we would need it to be for it to make sense to love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: I did not know all that, thanks. Diggs I think would be tradable for like 5 1st rounders but I am aware that there is not any team that will give up what we would need it to be for it to make sense to love him. Prime Megatron wouldn't be worth 5 1st rounders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said: Prime Megatron wouldn't be worth 5 1st rounders... I agree, I was trying to show what kind of insane haul it would have to be to entice the Bills to take the cap hit and no one is gonna offer that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 16 hours ago, first_and_ten said: I just don't agree with "Everyone in the organization has acknowledged" that the Super Bowl window is rapidly closing. Brandon Beane has said that he wants to build a team that always has a chance of winning every year. The window is far from rapidly closing. The window is open every year Allen is on their roster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Orlando Tim said: I agree, I was trying to show what kind of insane haul it would have to be to entice the Bills to take the cap hit and no one is gonna offer that much. There is no insane cap hit at least when compared to having him on/off the roster. It doesn’t exist. Diggs cap hit is $3M more off of the roster than he is on the roster. Diggs contract is prohibitive to the team no matter what they do with him. I’m going to keep saying this on every page as often as people keep mindlessly parroting this. Edited June 25, 2023 by Mango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 38 minutes ago, Mango said: There is no insane cap hit at least when compared to having him on/off the roster. It doesn’t exist. Diggs cap hit is $3M more off of the roster than he is on the roster. Diggs contract is prohibitive to the team no matter what they do with him. I’m going to keep saying this on every page as often as people keep mindlessly parroting this. According to Spotrac his cap hit is $15 million a year on the team and $45 million if he is cut or traded. What am I missing? Seriously if they are wrong or I don't understand the cap I am open to learning. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 10:42 AM, Big Turk said: Publicly they continue to say he isn't for trade, but apparently privately they would be open to it under the right circumstances...allegedly. If this report is true, what do you think the "right circumstances" would be? https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/bills-privately-open-traiding-stefon-diggs/amp/ This report strikes me as not true. The cap hits would be untenable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 8 hours ago, Orlando Tim said: I am not sure if Albright has a real source who told him this but if there is a real source then it is the Bills trying to send a message to Diggs. That being said every single player not named Josh is available under the proper conditions, we build around him and everyone else is secondary. I have also heard speculated that the extensions for Beane and McD were another message to Diggs. They will be here after you are gone. I’m not saying this is the intent, but I believe it will certainly happen that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: According to Spotrac his cap hit is $15 million a year on the team and $45 million if he is cut or traded. What am I missing? Seriously if they are wrong or I don't understand the cap I am open to learning. Sorry, that comment isn’t totally directed at you. I’ve broken this down a few times. I get everybody doesn’t read every page. But there are a lot of people that are either not catching it or ignoring it, then continuing the conversation of how it’s not possible because of the $45M. Spotrac isn’t wrong. His total dead cap is spread over two years. Which does in fact equal $45M. But dead cap isn’t in addition to, it’s in replacement of his current contract/cap number, and it’s over two years, not a single $45M increase. So you have to look at that number compared to what it costs to keep him. Having Diggs on the roster the next two years costs the team about $42. Only a $3M difference and actually saves the team $1.6M this season. If you want the specific break down click on the red X to the right of any season. It will break down the cap hit based on trade and release. It’s not that Diggs can’t be moved. He can be. It’s we would want (need?) an immediate replacement, and that replacement would likely cost $15-20M, which would be difficult. But not really any more difficult than signing that player with Diggs on the roster either. (ie. OBJ/Hopkins) The Bills can do it. But would likely have to package another player to make room this year. My quick thought is Mike Evans and a high pick for Diggs. Then see what value we can get for Morse which should give us the cap space we need. Use the high pick and space next year to solve the Diggs problem in the offseason, while also having a one year rental. That’s just an idea for what’s possible. But I’d prefer to keep Diggs and have everybody get along while playing high level football. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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