Ross Tucker ranks NFL Coach’s, places McDermott at #22.

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

In one of those seasons (last season) our team was decimated with injuries.  We didn’t have a championship caliber roster on the field when we got smacked by Cinci.   

 

Food for thought, we're not the only team with injuries though, they're an expected part of the game.  

 

Case in point, regardling last season:  Cincy entered the game with 3 backups in on their OL.  We were still bested up front.  How do we reconcile that?  

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think I had already said upthread that I’d rather have Mcdaniels and Fangio.  But preferring mcdaniels and Fangio isn’t an endorsement for mcdaniels being a better head coach than mcdermott.  It’s Fangio is a world class DC while Dorsey is still unproven. It’s a coordinator comparison as much as it is a preference of having an offensive HC 

 

this thread is about head coaches. Not HC/ coordinator combos   Mcdermott needs to be ahead of Mcdaniels at this point.  That narrative may change after the season. But the article isn’t written after the season

 

 

You're correct, no way should McDaniels be above McDermott. 

 

Remember McDaniels running Tua back out in the first Bills game after everyone at the stadium saw the stagger/concussion.  McDaniels was clearly full out trying for victory at all costs.  He won the battle but may lose the war, Tua may never fully recover.  IMO, that's all on McDaniel.  So while McDaniels may have the look of a nerdy offensive genius, to date he has acted like a me-first, cowardly buffoon.

 

Compare that to McDermott and the away Cincy game.  You could tell McDermott was not having the team go back out.  He was going to forfeit the game if he had to- his team was in shock.  McD was putting the interests of his team ahead of the game.  McD was going to take the consequences of whatever the league decided to do - it was unchartered waters and he was being a leader.

 

No doubt which coach I prefer. 

[PBF81]

14 hours ago, Process said:

I'm not a huge McDermott guy but 22 is ridiculous.

 

You got the offensive gurus like Reid Shanahan Mcvay Pederson Daboll Payton. 

 

Belichick Harbaugh Tomlin. 

 

Vrabel who can turn crap into gold. 

 

He's somewhere in the 10-15 range. Certainly not elite as a head coach, and his stubbornness and "process" can be annoying as hell. And if we stumble in the playoffs this year than we really need to start questioning if we will ever get over the hump with him. But you can definitely do a lot worse at HC.

 

I'm excited to see him as a DC this year. 

 

What is "the Process."  It's never been defined or explained.  Is "13 Seconds" a part of it.  LOL  

 

Agree on the 10-15 range.  Until he proves that he won't be outcoached by his peers in the playoffs ...  

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

47 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I firmly believe McD will lose Diggs if the Bills fail to meet expectations. 

 

I don't think anyone questions McD's ability to build a nice culture and attitude in the locker room. However, this only gets you so far. 

 

I'd ask you to look at both sides of the lines. In the trenches sort of speak. Where is the nastiness, toughness, chippy play, and bad was attitude? I haven't seen it in the McD era. Have you? 

 

Clapping only gets you so far. 

The question was rhetorical. Look up the definition if you don't understand it. 

 

My point was it was a mistake to hire an inexperienced Dorsey especially when the Bills were making a legitimate run for the Lombardi. 

 

Feel free to disagree.

Diggs loses himself. Great player but he is a drama king. Receivers are the worst and it would be wrong to put that on SM. 
 

now if Allen said something, that would be concerning.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

I think we are in the minority here. 

 

I agree with your post. 

 

I'm not sure about that, I simply think that the people that agree are reluctant to post much for fear of the ad hominem and hostilities that await them when they do.  

 

Either way, the tone and sentiment is definitely different in WNY contrasted with nationwide.  

 

This season I believe will be a big one in terms of where the narrative on McD sits following this season.  He's got everything he needs to prove his detractors wrong this season.  

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by PBF81

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I'm not sure about that, I simply think that the people that agree are reluctant to post much for fear of the ad hominem and hostilities that await them when they do.  

 

 

 

How serious do you take message board talk?  You legitimately believe people are "afraid" to post opinions on a message board because it could get "hostile".

Holy ***** dude.  Is this the length you're willing to reach? 
"They really don't like McDermott, they're just too scared to say it".

 

GTFOH with that. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[MasterStrategist]

30 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Oh please. He was a ‘gofer’ for Dabol and the (double quote) QBs coach. I have no confidence he’ll be able to scheme Kincaid effectively as he never played with a good Tight End, never created plays for one so he’s fully devoid of what  can be done with a talent like this. Our Offense was so crappy and unimaginable by the 2nd half of the season, it became ‘Just let Josh be Josh’. I’d throw my laptop too!

Horrible take on many fronts.

 

Re: 2nd half of season offense:

1. Points: we avg 29.4 PPG (Chiefs as a comparison avg 28.1)

2. Yards: 379

3. Run game: we started to run the ball more, become more balanced and take pressure off Josh being a hero.  

4. Josh: obviously his elbow injury had an effect on him, as he stated himself.  The offensive gameplan was adjusted, see point #3 above.  He also had some poor decision making games, ie: turnovers

 

I wouldn't call the above "crappy and unimaginative", as you put it.  That's just frustration speaking, and letting that blind you.

 

Who would you suggest we should have hired as OC last year then?  Dorsey was a known commodity in-house, highly respected by his coaches and players (past and present).  Thats the definition of how you want to build and replace coaching staff departures.  Top 5 offense, and you're speaking with emotion and throwing crazy predictions about not using Kincaid already....lets remember this come regular season

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Diggs loses himself. Great player but he is a drama king. Receivers are the worst and it would be wrong to put that on SM. 
 

now if Allen said something, that would be concerning.

 

This is just a general comment, but it's interesting, because when we traded for him, his attitude wasn't going to be a problem here, he was going to be the difference, etc.  His play in the playoffs in our last five playoff games, with one exception, has not matched his status.  He doesn't have a single TD in any of those five games.  

 

Anyway, I always find it interesting how the narratives change and why they do.  

 

 

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How serious do you take message board talk?  You legitimately believe people are "afraid" to post opinions on a message board because it could get "hostile".

Holy ***** dude.  Is this the length you're willing to reach? 
"They really don't like McDermott, they're just too scared to say it".

 

GTFOH with that. 

 

Thanks for validating my statement.  Appreciate it.   

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

This is just a general comment, but it's interesting, because when we traded for him, his attitude wasn't going to be a problem here, he was going to be the difference, etc.  His play in the playoffs in our last five playoff games, with one exception, has not matched his status.  He doesn't have a single TD in any of those five games.  

 

Anyway, I always find it interesting how the narratives change and why they do.  

 

 

 

Thanks for validating my statement.  Appreciate it.   

 

 

 

It might be time to take a break from here.  This place is too hostile for you.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

This is just a general comment, but it's interesting, because when we traded for him, his attitude wasn't going to be a problem here, he was going to be the difference, etc.  His play in the playoffs in our last five playoff games, with one exception, has not matched his status.  He doesn't have a single TD in any of those five games.  

 

Anyway, I always find it interesting how the narratives change and why they do.  

 

 

 

Thanks for validating my statement.  Appreciate it.   

 

 

Yeah, I love the player but it’s funny how so many excuses the Minnesota stuff. We are a much better offense because of him but is he the type of player that would be happy with a win and one catch or a loss with 10? I wonder sometimes. 

[PBF81]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

It might be time to take a break from here.  This place is too hostile for you.

 

To start, thanks again for validating my statement. 

 

Otherwise, LOL, classes in reading comprehension and logic may help you.  

 

Not for me.  I shed the hostiliies and ad hominems.  I thought I was referring to other people, as stated.  But hey, maybe I'm wrong and don't know what I meant when I wrote it.  LOL  

 

Contrarily, perhaps it's time you took a break, you seem to be a little spun up, and over what exactly?   I mean seriously, wasting time on this?  .... whatever ... 
 

Have a great day!!   

 

 

[Dopey]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yep.  I remember thinking last year, we can't score any points.  I think last year, we ended up I believe in the bottom 10 in points per game scoring.

Can you verify?

According to ESPN, we were 2nd in the ENTIRE NFL in points per game. Only behind the Chiefs by. Ahead of teams like the Vikes, Eagles, Lions and...the Bengals. 

Also, leading up to the playoff loss, here are the points we scored:

32 vs the Dolphins - win

35 vs the Bears - win

35 vs the Pats - win

34 vs the Dolphins - Playoff win

 

Bottom 10? Nah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Dopey

[Dablitzkrieg]

I can see the logic, but I disagree with him being so low.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

To start, thanks again for validating my statement. 

 

Otherwise, LOL, classes in reading comprehension and logic may help you.  

 

Not for me.  I shed the hostiliies and ad hominems.  I thought I was referring to other people, as stated.  But hey, maybe I'm wrong and don't know what I meant when I wrote it.  LOL  

 

Contrarily, perhaps it's time you took a break, you seem to be a little spun up, and over what exactly?   I mean seriously, wasting time on this?  .... whatever ... 
 

Have a great day!!   

 

 

 

Definitely validating your statement.  This interaction has absolutely proved that people are afraid to say negative things about McDermott.  This absolutely proves it.

It's a real fear.  If it wasn't for posters like me, many more people would support your opinion publicly but it's just too fearful.

 

Wasting time on this?  How many thousand character responses have you had just to say "you still hate McDermott for 13 seconds"?  

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yeah, I love the player but it’s funny how so many excuses the Minnesota stuff. We are a much better offense because of him but is he the type of player that would be happy with a win and one catch or a loss with 10? I wonder sometimes. 

 

As long as he doesn't bring any bad vibes to camp and the season.  

 

There are going to be a lot of interesting sideshows this season.  Diggs, McD running the D, how the offense performs with the additions of McGovern, Torrence, Kincaid, the LB-ing situation, a tougher schedule after several seasons of them being on the easier end, Dorsey, etc.  

 

That's a lot of stuff to pull together and a lot of ways that the wheels can fall off the wagon too.  

 

As to Diggs, he's one tantrum away from starting to lose the fans from where I sit.  Allen's had his back, but much like Brady & Brown, there's only so much that a QB can do to defend that kind of stuff.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

AJ doesn’t fit that mold though. Dude was maxed out in college. 
 

honestly, thank god, he hit on Allen. Because it’s been kinda meh since. But when you hit on a top 3 qb, you are good for awhile. Like the Colts have probably directed better than us but are stuck in qb purgatory.

 

Yea, true. But generally there has been a trend to Beane's drafting. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Dopey said:

According to ESPN, we were 2nd in the ENTIRE NFL in points per game. Only behind the Chiefs by. Ahead of teams like the Vikes, Eagles, Lions and...the Bengals. 

Also, leading up to the playoff loss, here are the points we scored:

32 vs the Dolphins - win

35 vs the Bears - win

35 vs the Pats - win

34 vs the Dolphins - Playoff win

 

Bottom 10? Nah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dopey,

 

I am mocking the extreme overdramatic responses from people talking about our roster, this specifically about offense.

 

This is the common theme:

- Dorsey is terrible

- Offensive line is terrible

- WR's are terrible except Diggs

 

It would seem we are a bottom offense with those statements.

 

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Definitely validating your statement.  This interaction has absolutely proved that people are afraid to say negative things about McDermott.  This absolutely proves it.

It's a real fear.  If it wasn't for posters like me, many more people would support your opinion publicly but it's just too fearful.

 

Wasting time on this?  How many thousand character responses have you had just to say "you still hate McDermott for 13 seconds"?  

 

No one ever forced you to read them all.  LOL  

 

You crack me up.   

 

 

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Dopey,

 

I am mocking the extreme overdramatic responses from people talking about our roster, this specifically about offense.

 

This is the common theme:

- Dorsey is terrible

- Offensive line is terrible

- WR's are terrible except Diggs

 

It would seem we are a bottom offense with those statements.

 

 

Out of curiosity, where would you rate Dorsey as an OC from 1-to-10?  

 

Similarly, our OL?  

 

I personally think that the criticisms of Davis are over the top.  What is your opinion of our WRs last season?  
 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

No one ever forced you to read them all.  LOL  

 

You crack me up.   

 

 

 

Yet you're still "wasting" your time on this right?

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea, true. But generally there has been a trend to Beane's drafting. 

 

How are you viewing that trend?  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Yet you're still "wasting" your time on this right?

 

Thanks for the chuckles.  Laughter is good for the soul.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

How are you viewing that trend?  

 

 

As I said above - he likes big, he likes high RAS, he likes freakish physical attributes. And he particularly likes Florida Gators  

[PBF81]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

As I said above - he likes big, he likes high RAS, he likes freakish physical attributes. And he particularly likes Florida Gators  

 

Good catch on the Gators trend.  I hadn't noticed that.  

 

You a Gators fan?  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Good catch on the Gators trend.  I hadn't noticed that.  

 

You a Gators fan?  

 

No I have no college rooting interest at all. I'm normally accused of being a Clemson fan, I'm not that either. 

 

 

By the way there is a piece on "The Draft Scout" which I subscribe to for another few months (it was set up by Matt Miller when he first left BR but since ESPN tied him in to an exclusive deal he no longer contributes to it) today that ranks the HCs and has Sean McDermott SECOND to Andy Reid. 

 

For the sake of clarity, that is as ridiculous as having him 22nd. I think he is somewhere between 8th and 12th. There are a gaggle of guys there I have grouped pretty closely. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by GunnerBill

[Robert Paulson]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:59 AM, Gregg said:

I think #22 is too low. McDermott should be ranked higher but he is not really wrong with his assessment especially with the playoff failures.

agreed, he is somewhere between 5-10. he would be higher if he fired frazier 3 years ago

 

[harryS]

Does it really matter if McD should actually be 15th or whatever instead of 22nd?  It's stupid to be so precise in these coach rankings anyway, and it's especially stupid for Bills fans to get all up in arms about the rankings one way or another.

 

No, what matters is that McD will be fired within a few seasons after having wasted much of Josh Allen's prime. 

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, harryS said:

Does it really matter if McD should actually be 15th or whatever instead of 22nd?  It's stupid to be so precise in these coach rankings anyway, and it's especially stupid for Bills fans to get all up in arms about the rankings one way or another.

 

No, what matters is that McD will be fired within a few seasons after having wasted much of Josh Allen's prime. 

It’s a message board bro….we’re discussing our thoughts on his rankings.  It’s what this place is for. 
 

But your last sentence tells everyone all we need to know about you.  He will be fired because he’s wasted Joshs prime years = we aren’t winning a Super Bowl because mcdermott isn’t good enough.  You already know that he’s not winning a SB 🤣 

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 5/25/2023 at 9:33 AM, NewEra said:

You think it’s fair that Brandon Staley, Arthur Smith, McConnell and Mcdaniel should be ranked ahead of him?  There are more on the list that we can question….. but those 4 guys have no right at the moment 

 

 

Completely agree.  Arthur Smith has done nothing with the Falcons.  Put Mike Vrabel in there as well.  Last season was a tire fire for the Titans.  And Vrabel can take a lot of responsibility for that.

[TheBrownBear]

Sorry.  This is recency bias run amok.  I don't love McDermott, but there is no way he's in the bottom third of coaches in the league.  Unfortunately, we have Reid/Mahomes and Burrow in our way, which is quite the roadblock.  Yes, a great coach might find a way to get over that hump, but that doesn't mean McDermott is a "bad" coach, which is how Tucker has him ranked.

[TheBrownBear]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I think he's a great team builder. Very good at making steps in the right direction for a mediocre team.

 

Come playoff time against the big boys his flaws are clearly exposed and evident. Think Marty S as can example. 

I actually think this applies more to McDermott than Marty.  McDermott clearly didn't put the guys in position to be competitive against the Chiefs in 2020 or against the Bengals last year.  Marty didn't make Ernest Byner fumble a ball on the goal line or Marlon McCree fumble a game clinching interception against the Patriots.  Marty just seemed a magnet for terrible luck.

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Sorry.  This is recency bias run amok.  I don't love McDermott, but there is no way he's in the bottom third of coaches in the league.  Unfortunately, we have Reid/Mahomes and Burrow in our way, which is quite the roadblock.  Yes, a great coach might find a way to get over that hump, but that doesn't mean McDermott is a "bad" coach, which is how Tucker has him ranked.

Reid/Mahomes and Taylor/Burrow who already once took them on and beat them for a SB berth

 

So if Allen>Burrow then Taylor >>>McDermott

 

He's not a bad coach, he's middling

[Freddie's Dead]

McD will not win us a Super Bowl.  I'll be happy to be wrong, but I don't think I am.  

[Chaos]

Bills had a long streak of having Among the worst coaches in the league.  McDermott is consistently generating top 8 team results with a consensus top 3 QB.  These are the facts, and they are not in dispute.  Whether this means McDermott is a good , mediocre or bad coach is open to quite a few interpretations 

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Bills had a long streak of having Among the worst coaches in the league.  McDermott is consistently generating top 8 team results with a consensus top 3 QB.  These are the facts, and they are not in dispute.  Whether this means McDermott is a good , mediocre or bad coach is open to quite a few interpretations 

I don't see how you could interpret the Allen years postseason results, which is basically how we judge HCs, as 'good'

 

Good would be winning or short of that at least playing in a Super Bowl

[BillsFan2313]

4 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I think so, yes.

 

Na. False

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No I have no college rooting interest at all. I'm normally accused of being a Clemson fan, I'm not that either. 

 

 

By the way there is a piece on "The Draft Scout" which I subscribe to for another few months (it was set up by Matt Miller when he first left BR but since ESPN tied him in to an exclusive deal he no longer contributes to it) today that ranks the HCs and has Sean McDermott SECOND to Andy Reid. 

 

For the sake of clarity, that is as ridiculous as having him 22nd. I think he is somewhere between 8th and 12th. There are a gaggle of guys there I have grouped pretty closely. 

There are 9 NFL HCs who have actually won Super Bowls, let alone played in one...how do you put him anywhere higher than 10th

[34-78-83]

I've not seen a more well targeted click bait since that d*** nosed Chiefs fan guy's antics. I didn't think Tucker rolled this way, but yep, yep he does.... Bottom third is absolutely laughable!

 

 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

There are 9 NFL HCs who have actually won Super Bowls, let alone played in one...how do you put him anywhere higher than 10th

 

One of them is Mike McCarthy. But yea, fair enough.... 9th is the highest. I don't have McCarthy top 20. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

One of them is Mike McCarthy. But yea, fair enough.... 9th is the highest. I don't have McCarthy top 20. 

Are McCarthy and McDermott really so dissimilar to you

 

Like where do you have LaFleur, Vrabel, Shanahan etc, you think McDermott is so clearly better than these guys

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I don't see how you could interpret the Allen years postseason results, which is basically how we judge HCs, as 'good'

 

Good would be winning or short of that at least playing in a Super Bowl

Some people think making the playoffs each season makes you a good coach no matter what.  To me the team has underperformed it potential.  So I am in the “ so far he is mediocre “ camp 

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Reid/Mahomes and Taylor/Burrow who already once took them on and beat them for a SB berth

 

So if Allen>Burrow then Taylor >>>McDermott

 

He's not a bad coach, he's middling

I love Josh, but I think Burrow, and certainly Mahomes are better.