Nomenclature question for the board...

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I hear a lot about drafting BPA.  We debate endlessly on this board about BPA, BPA at a position of need, straight need, and so forth. 

Some have said Beane took the BPA in Kincaid.  

In my mind, taking BPA means you sit and wait for your turn in the draft and take your highest rated player.  

I really don't think you can call a pick that you trade up for a BPA pick.  

I'm curious what others think.  Partially because I'm a bit of a narcissist and want to keep proving my point that Beane almost always drafts for need. And moving up in the draft to select a pass catcher again is a need pick and not a BPA pick.  

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

A bit?

[damj]

It's still BPA because Kincaid was probably the last player Beane had with a first round grade.

 

Available doesn;t have to mean just sitting there and waiting ... available means available to you, so a trade up isn't out of the question

 

[KDIGGZ]

From what he said it sounded like they didn't think anyone else was worth a 1 if they were going to either trade up or trade back. Simple as that. I don't agree, there will be a ton of good TE's available tomorrow, but that's what they did

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, damj said:

It's still BPA because Kincaid was probably the last player Beane had with a first round grade.

 

Available doesn;t have to mean just sitting there and waiting ... available means available to you, so a trade up isn't out of the question

 

This ^^
 

Kincaid was almost certainly the BPA on the Bills board. He ALSO has a skill set that they are looking for. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

It can be both IMO.

 

If the BPA on your board is there and there is a sizable gap between him and the 2nd best guy on your board making a move makes sense. Especially if...as in this case...you believe with logical reason that the team your jumping would take that BPA. 

[damj]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

This ^^
 

Kincaid was almost certainly the BPA on the Bills board. He ALSO has a skill set that they are looking for. 

Exactly. I think we wanted a pass catcher and they viewed Kincaid basically as a WR. After the top 4, he was the last one. He was gone to Dallas if we didn't jump them.

[StHustle]

Kincaid was BPA

 

But we moved up cause he was also a need.

 

What you're saying makes some sense tho. You don't trade up to grab a BPA unless it's also fills a need.

[Royale with Cheese]

29 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I hear a lot about drafting BPA.  We debate endlessly on this board about BPA, BPA at a position of need, straight need, and so forth. 

Some have said Beane took the BPA in Kincaid.  

In my mind, taking BPA means you sit and wait for your turn in the draft and take your highest rated player.  

I really don't think you can call a pick that you trade up for a BPA pick.  

I'm curious what others think.  Partially because I'm a bit of a narcissist and want to keep proving my point that Beane almost always drafts for need. And moving up in the draft to select a pass catcher again is a need pick and not a BPA pick.  

 

I think people in general make it so black and white between need and BPA.  It's both and always will be both and every team uses it.

 

How does BPA mean only when it's your turn?  

How do you know who the BPA was when the Bills were on the clock?  I think its obvious Kincaid was a BPA because they traded up for him.

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Royale with Cheese

[nucci]

of course you draft for need. If the BPA was a QB, we wouldn't have drafted him.

[DrDawkinstein]

30 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I hear a lot about drafting BPA.  We debate endlessly on this board about BPA, BPA at a position of need, straight need, and so forth. 

Some have said Beane took the BPA in Kincaid.  

In my mind, taking BPA means you sit and wait for your turn in the draft and take your highest rated player.  

I really don't think you can call a pick that you trade up for a BPA pick.  

I'm curious what others think.  Partially because I'm a bit of a narcissist and want to keep proving my point that Beane almost always drafts for need. And moving up in the draft to select a pass catcher again is a need pick and not a BPA pick.  

 

According to Beane, if they couldnt trade up/land Kincaid then the next step was to trade out of the 1st.

 

That would indicate that their grading on Kincaid had him as the only 1st round talent left, and by far the Best Player Available. So they went and got him.

 

He was the Best Player Available since maybe pick 23, and the only 1st round player left, and at a need of pass catching play maker.

 

That's about as clear cut as it can get. (Which is not very)

[ddaryl]

the question is how much difference in their ranking/draft board scores was Kincaid compared to the other options left 

 

There is debate that Kincaid was top 10 pick worthy.... so what player left had a grade even in that ball park... If there was a significant difference from what was left on the board compared to Kincaid then the bit of aggresiveness to move up 2 spots makes a lot of sense

 

I watched some highlight reels of Kincaid and his route running for Utah and his ability to move the chains reminds me a lot of the job Beasley was doing for us before the injury

If they can carve out a hybrid slot/TE scheme I think we are better off than actually trying to draft a WR for the slot position, and we have plenty of slot options on the roster but we won't have to depend on them to fill the Beasley shoes which has been hard than expected to replace

Plus if it does help us with the run game etc... well that is just another win

Edited April 28, 2023 by ddaryl

[GunnerBill]

BPA just means BPA. Was he the best player on their board when they drafted him. I can believe that Kincaid was that. He wasn't the best on mine (5th but best offensive player remaining) but Daniel Jeremiah and others had him as the best remaining. 

 

But I take the OP's point there is a difference between waiting for your pick and staying true to your board as against moving around the board so that the BPA also happens to fill a need. Beane has done the latter a lot in his time here IMO. The trade up for Knox back in 2019 was similar and in his mind the trade up for Ford too.

[SoCal Deek]

I’ve never found this to be complicated. BPA means just that. The best player available when you select. Available is the critical word. When you trade up, as the Bills did, it somewhat negates the general concept. Trading up indicates that they thought Kincaid would not be ‘available’ when they picked. 

[WhoTom]

It's a balance between pure BPA and drafting for need. The goal is to fill the needs during free agency so you can pick BPA to upgrade some of those positions.

 

For example, we have at least a "serviceable" starter at every position, so Beane looks at the roster, figures out which positions would be nice to upgrade, and moves around (if necessary) to align the BPA at those positions. We have decent receivers, but other than Diggs, nobody elite, so that's a spot that's ripe for an upgrade. It looks like Kinkaid is more of a receiving threat than a blocker, he was the best pass-catcher on the board at 25, and Beane figured Dallas was going to grab him at 26, so he moved up and got him. BPA at a position that would be nice to upgrade.

 

We could also use upgrades at MLB and OL, so I expect to see those positions addressed today and tomorrow.

 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

Kincaid was BPA

 

But we moved up cause he was also a need.

 

What you're saying makes some sense tho. You don't trade up to grab a BPA unless it's also fills a need.

....and he was 100% being taken by Dallas. It was a very good pick and worth a 4th.

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

....and he was 100% being taken by Dallas. It was a very good pick and worth a 4th.

Now let’s see if McD allows him to play. Run out five yards, turn around, post up, block out, catch the pass….move the chains! 

[Yantha]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I hear a lot about drafting BPA.  We debate endlessly on this board about BPA, BPA at a position of need, straight need, and so forth. 

Some have said Beane took the BPA in Kincaid.  

In my mind, taking BPA means you sit and wait for your turn in the draft and take your highest rated player.  

I really don't think you can call a pick that you trade up for a BPA pick.  

I'm curious what others think.  Partially because I'm a bit of a narcissist and want to keep proving my point that Beane almost always drafts for need. And moving up in the draft to select a pass catcher again is a need pick and not a BPA pick.  

 

I think BPA relates to the draft board, even if you trade up.  I think the Bills wanted Kincaid, and thought there was a significant enough dropoff in value between him and their "next BPA" (hence the move).

[stevestojan]

If he truly picked BPA, he would have picked Levis. There’s a limit to BPA. 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

This ^^
 

Kincaid was almost certainly the BPA on the Bills board. He ALSO has a skill set that they are looking for. 

This is why I believe BPA vs. Need debate is a fallacy.

 

Teams stack the board based on how they value certain positions based on the makeup of their current roster which essentially is prioritized by need. 
 

So is it BPA or Need?  It’s both, regardless of what any GM will tell you. 

7 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

If he truly picked BPA, he would have picked Levis. There’s a limit to BPA. 

Not just QB’s like Levis but also running backs, linebackers - etc.  Maybe Detroit really IS using BPA

[harryS]

too simple, he was both BPA and fulfills a need

 

best of both worlds

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I hear a lot about drafting BPA.  We debate endlessly on this board about BPA, BPA at a position of need, straight need, and so forth. 

Some have said Beane took the BPA in Kincaid.  

In my mind, taking BPA means you sit and wait for your turn in the draft and take your highest rated player.  

I really don't think you can call a pick that you trade up for a BPA pick.  

I'm curious what others think.  Partially because I'm a bit of a narcissist and want to keep proving my point that Beane almost always drafts for need. And moving up in the draft to select a pass catcher again is a need pick and not a BPA pick.  

 

A lot of posters here think NFL draft boards look like the mock draft simulators. Teams generally don’t stack players vertically like that, they use a horizontal draft board. That ranks players by draft ranges where they are considered appropriate value. A lot of different information can be added to that- ratings, red flags, etc. So when it’s time to pick there usually isn’t just one player there sticking out, though that does happen - there are several players to discuss and chose from. 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by BarleyNY