WR Trent Sherfield signed

[Solomon Grundy]

Just had the pleasure of meeting the newest member of the Bills and his family. Very friendly and classy. I welcomed them to Buffalo and members of the Mafia 

[Back2Buff]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "They already made the decision to" and "the money is tied up".

 

Could you explain please?

 

What more is there to explain?  Just listen to a Beane press conference.  We are broke and he continues to point to Davis ankle injury.

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

What more is there to explain?  Just listen to a Beane press conference.  We are broke and he continues to point to Davis ankle injury.

You’re pointing to coach speak as proof?

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I look at this and go back and forth a bit.  Fundamentally, I agree much more than I disagree that the two biggest areas for improvement are OL and Dorsey, with Allen re-discovering his willingness to play a more diverse game and take advantage of the timely short pass to a player who can create YAC a strong third.

 

That said, let me ask you this:  the Bills came out of 2019 with John Brown as a proven >1000 yd receiver and Beasley as a 67 reception, ~800 yd slot.  They went into 2020 with Stefon Diggs as #1 and Brown and Beasley as #2 and #3, then added Davis as a promising rookie "ahead of schedule".

 

Do you feel we are anything near to the same place as far as proven WR talent to where we were going into the 2020 season?

 

Likewise, in 2021 we went into the season with Diggs, Emmanuel Sanders (a more complete WR than Brown with several >1000 yd seasons and still capable), Beasley just off an almost-1000 yd season, and Davis just off a promising, 35 reception 600 yd rookie year.

 

Do you feel we are anything near to the same place as far as proven WR talent to where we were going into the 2021 season?

This is fun to talk about, but I think you're playing with words a little bit.  Going into the season in 2020 I was really excited.   I thought the Bills have proven, natural 1, 2, and 3.  The reality of what we had was different, at least with respect to Brown.   Brown rarely had seasons where he was a really solid, versatile 2, and I didn't think he did in 2020.  How would I compare now to then?   I'd give the edge to 2020, but not by so much that it matters.  Davis is a better 2 than Brown was, able to get deep surprisingly well - not in Brown's class, but quite good, a better possession receiver and a better blocker.  Beas that season was hard to beat.  

 

2021?  Proven wide receiver talent?  Well, of course, Emmanuel was proven, but he turned out to be not so good.  He looked like an upgrade over Brown, but he wasn't.  And 2021 Beas was showing his limitations, particularly in the deep game.  I'd say right now, Shakir and what I've heard about Sherfield, some combination of them will be better than Beas turned out to be in 2021.  Plus each of those two fit more naturally into the wideout role than Beas, when the Bills want to put Diggs in the slot.  

 

Do I know all that for sure?   No.  But I'm quite confident they have a room full of receivers who can make more than enough catches.  

 

I also think that in making the comparison, you also have to consider the running backs.  Bills could have their 1, 2, and 3 on the field AND have Cook and Hines.  Or Harris and Hines.   If Harris runs anything like he has, he's going to force defenders into the box, and the Bills definitely have the talent to attack deep and on the perimeter when that happens.   

 

Bottom line, I think the Bills have the skill positions covered.   Work on the line.   And it's a make or break year, in my mind, for Dorsey.  The oline is his job, and utilizing those skill players is his job.  

[Beck Water]

49 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You’re pointing to coach speak as proof?

 

Worse, GM speak - during FA

[Augie]

49 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You’re pointing to coach speak as proof?

 

It is generally only proof that coaches speak. Not quite the same. 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is fun to talk about, but I think you're playing with words a little bit.  Going into the season in 2020 I was really excited.   I thought the Bills have proven, natural 1, 2, and 3.  The reality of what we had was different, at least with respect to Brown.   Brown rarely had seasons where he was a really solid, versatile 2, and I didn't think he did in 2020.  How would I compare now to then?   I'd give the edge to 2020, but not by so much that it matters.  Davis is a better 2 than Brown was, able to get deep surprisingly well - not in Brown's class, but quite good, a better possession receiver and a better blocker.  Beas that season was hard to beat.  

 

2021?  Proven wide receiver talent?  Well, of course, Emmanuel was proven, but he turned out to be not so good.  He looked like an upgrade over Brown, but he wasn't. 

 

So now you're puzzling me.  You say in your previous post, that you think we've got the skill positions covered.  In this post, that we (already) have a room full of receivers who can make more than enough catches.

 

Then you say that Emmanuel was proven, but "turned out to be not so good".  But in 2021, he had 42 catches for 626 yds, 14.9 y/r, 31 1st downs on 77% of the snaps - compare with Davis, who had 35 receptions for 549 yds, 29 1st downs, 15.7 y/r on 91% of the snaps.  So if those #s for Emmanuel Sanders "turned out to be not so good", what do you say about Sanders, whose numbers were actually a bit better?

 

I'm having trouble parsing both those notions.

 

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

Do I know all that for sure?   No.  But I'm quite confident they have a room full of receivers who can make more than enough catches.  

 

 I'm glad you're confident, but I  think we're way short of having the "skill positions covered".  I think we have some guys with potential - but it remains to be seen whether they can haul in Josh Allen "Piss Missiles" in cold wet weather and make enough plays.

 

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I also think that in making the comparison, you also have to consider the running backs.  Bills could have their 1, 2, and 3 on the field AND have Cook and Hines.  Or Harris and Hines.   If Harris runs anything like he has, he's going to force defenders into the box, and the Bills definitely have the talent to attack deep and on the perimeter when that happens.   

 

Bottom line, I think the Bills have the skill positions covered.   Work on the line.   And it's a make or break year, in my mind, for Dorsey.  The oline is his job, and utilizing those skill players is his job.  

 

We have strong agreement about "work on the line", because we're not going to be able to put two RBs on the field (especially Cook and HInes) unless we improve at RT enough that we don't need Knox over there to chip, nor will Harris run anything like what he has, nor will Josh Allen have time to attack deep reliably.

 

[John from Riverside]

I honestly have not followed this guy much so I’m not gonna act like I know anything about him

 

What I do know is this I’m a big fan of poaching free agents off of teams at positions of their strength

 

Even if a player is the third wide receiver on their team if they have superstars in front of them, that doesn’t mean that that third player is a bad player might actually be a very good player

 

He has speed and size plays special teams

and blocks for the run seems like a Buffalo Bill

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

He was their WR3, so it does 

 

 

The WR 1 and 2 had 3066 yards--68% of the total passing yards went to 2 guys!  This kid had 417.  

 

He was a third testicle in that WR room. 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:47 PM, Warcodered said:

 

 

Good read. Thanks for posting the link.

 

On 3/20/2023 at 1:50 PM, Gambit said:

You're talking about Hodgins not Hopkins. That's what was confusing about your original comment.

 

In discussions on this forum, there's no difference between Hodgins and Hopkins for all intents and purposes.

 

On 3/20/2023 at 3:41 PM, Kirby Jackson said:

Thought the comments were interesting from Dolphins fans. They really liked him.

 

 

8 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Dorsey, Dorsey, Dorsey. 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Sierra Foothills

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

So now you're puzzling me.  You say in your previous post, that you think we've got the skill positions covered.  In this post, that we (already) have a room full of receivers who can make more than enough catches.

 

Then you say that Emmanuel was proven, but "turned out to be not so good".  But in 2021, he had 42 catches for 626 yds, 14.9 y/r, 31 1st downs on 77% of the snaps - compare with Davis, who had 35 receptions for 549 yds, 29 1st downs, 15.7 y/r on 91% of the snaps.  So if those #s for Emmanuel Sanders "turned out to be not so good", what do you say about Sanders, whose numbers were actually a bit better?

 

I'm having trouble parsing both those notions.

 

 

 I'm glad you're confident, but I  think we're way short of having the "skill positions covered".  I think we have some guys with potential - but it remains to be seen whether they can haul in Josh Allen "Piss Missiles" in cold wet weather and make enough plays.

 

 

We have strong agreement about "work on the line", because we're not going to be able to put two RBs on the field (especially Cook and HInes) unless we improve at RT enough that we don't need Knox over there to chip, nor will Harris run anything like what he has, nor will Josh Allen have time to attack deep reliably.

 

As to the first - Davis had a much better season in 2022 than Sanders had in 2021.  Sanders wouldn't have been a disappointment in 2021 if he had the season Davis had in 2022.  

 

As to the second, we already know Shakir can handle Allen throws, and we know Diggs, Knox, and Davis can.  I really am comfortable.  

 

As to your last point, I really think that we as fans tend to magnify the problems in our mind.  Allen threw plenty of deep balls last season, even with the lousy pass protection.  Yes, the offense needs to be better, but the offense was not far away from where it needed to be last season.  As I keep saying, improve the line and get a quality job out of Dorsey.  

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

So now you're puzzling me.  You say in your previous post, that you think we've got the skill positions covered.  In this post, that we (already) have a room full of receivers who can make more than enough catches.

 

Then you say that Emmanuel was proven, but "turned out to be not so good".  But in 2021, he had 42 catches for 626 yds, 14.9 y/r, 31 1st downs on 77% of the snaps - compare with Davis, who had 35 receptions for 549 yds, 29 1st downs, 15.7 y/r on 91% of the snaps.  So if those #s for Emmanuel Sanders "turned out to be not so good", what do you say about Sanders, whose numbers were actually a bit better?

 

I'm having trouble parsing both those notions.

 

 

 I'm glad you're confident, but I  think we're way short of having the "skill positions covered".  I think we have some guys with potential - but it remains to be seen whether they can haul in Josh Allen "Piss Missiles" in cold wet weather and make enough plays.

 

 

We have strong agreement about "work on the line", because we're not going to be able to put two RBs on the field (especially Cook and HInes) unless we improve at RT enough that we don't need Knox over there to chip, nor will Harris run anything like what he has, nor will Josh Allen have time to attack deep reliably.

 

yep to bolded. that equation might include RG and the synergy needed to prepare for stunts and passing off a T or LB. and by golly some screen plays !
 

 But you had me at PISS MISSILE

 

This descriptor of Joshes wet passes should be inked into the history Books.

 

Josh Allen. All the Velocity, all the time !

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Bottom line, I think the Bills have the skill positions covered.   Work on the line.   And it's a make or break year, in my mind, for Dorsey.  The oline is his job, and utilizing those skill players is his job.  

 

Forgive me for isolating this last bit of your thoughtful post - but while I agree that for 2023 the Bills have enough talent at the skill positions assuming no injuries (minus the hole at TE2...still see Q. Morris as solid TE3 at this time), I think the fairly pervasive opinion is that the team NEEDS to add a HIGH VALUE talent to the receiving pipeline because after Diggs we don't seemingly have anyone who has the potential to rise to that level.

 

For one ill-fated playoff game, we all saw Davis become a righteous and repeated punishment for Spagnuolo's unwavering, dedicated doubling of Diggs. It was legendary. And on the heels of a perfect offensive game the week prior, in those conditions in front of that crowd, there was a natural spoiling of our collective expectations for what Gabe Davis could be with more opportunities. 

 

But with a QB like Allen and a WR1 like Diggs, it really does boil down to oline play: pass protection and the valid threat of a running game.

[Shaw66]

11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Forgive me for isolating this last bit of your thoughtful post - but while I agree that for 2023 the Bills have enough talent at the skill positions assuming no injuries (minus the hole at TE2...still see Q. Morris as solid TE3 at this time), I think the fairly pervasive opinion is that the team NEEDS to add a HIGH VALUE talent to the receiving pipeline because after Diggs we don't seemingly have anyone who has the potential to rise to that level.

 

For one ill-fated playoff game, we all saw Davis become a righteous and repeated punishment for Spagnuolo's unwavering, dedicated doubling of Diggs. It was legendary. And on the heels of a perfect offensive game the week prior, in those conditions in front of that crowd, there was a natural spoiling of our collective expectations for what Gabe Davis could be with more opportunities. 

 

But with a QB like Allen and a WR1 like Diggs, it really does boil down to oline play: pass protection and the valid threat of a running game.

I hear you, and most of what you say in this post is exactly right.   I disagree with the bolded "pervasive opinion."  I agree that it IS the pervasive opinion, but think that opinion is wrong for one very clear reason:   the needs of the team in general and the resources available to fill those needs. 

 

The Bills need to prioritize its needs, and no matter how much the team's management may think it needs another wideout, I think quality management will recognize that it needs another offensive lineman more.  They also need a linebacker more.  Given the resources available (in the grand scheme of things, relatively little cap room and relatively little draft capital), it's simply not reasonable to expect the Bills to acquire the kind of receiver people are talking about.  Not OBJ, not Beckham, not (please not) Jeudy.  Beane may surprise me, but I don't see it.  

 

For years here, discussion at this time of year was about how the Bills were going to fill the holes in their starting lineup.   There always were holes, and it seemed the Bills had more holes to fill than they had resources to fill them.   That's changed.  Last year at this time, and this year, too, the Bills can see that they have their holes under control (they must have some plan for middle linebacker), and they're in the business of trying to upgrade positions.  Wideout is definitely in that category.  Davis is by no means a problem.   There is no hole at #2 receiver like there was when the Bills tried to make Beasley a #2.  

 

Given the resources available to acquire talent and give the current areas that most require improvement, I don't get talking about getting a major upgrade over Davis. 

 

  

[Green Lightning]

7 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I hear you, and most of what you say in this post is exactly right.   I disagree with the bolded "pervasive opinion."  I agree that it IS the pervasive opinion, but think that opinion is wrong for one very clear reason:   the needs of the team in general and the resources available to fill those needs. 

 

The Bills need to prioritize its needs, and no matter how much the team's management may think it needs another wideout, I think quality management will recognize that it needs another offensive lineman more.  They also need a linebacker more.  Given the resources available (in the grand scheme of things, relatively little cap room and relatively little draft capital), it's simply not reasonable to expect the Bills to acquire the kind of receiver people are talking about.  Not OBJ, not Beckham, not (please not) Jeudy.  Beane may surprise me, but I don't see it.  

 

For years here, discussion at this time of year was about how the Bills were going to fill the holes in their starting lineup.   There always were holes, and it seemed the Bills had more holes to fill than they had resources to fill them.   That's changed.  Last year at this time, and this year, too, the Bills can see that they have their holes under control (they must have some plan for middle linebacker), and they're in the business of trying to upgrade positions.  Wideout is definitely in that category.  Davis is by no means a problem.   There is no hole at #2 receiver like there was when the Bills tried to make Beasley a #2.  

 

Given the resources available to acquire talent and give the current areas that most require improvement, I don't get talking about getting a major upgrade over Davis. 

 

  

I see both sides of this. Last year, when we really needed a play and Diggs was doubled, nobody could seem to get separation and get open.  My opinion is it's both on Dorsey and our #2&3 receivers. Dorsey had little care of situational football awareness when dialing up a bomb on a 3rd and 2 on a crucial ball control drive.  Davis caught only 50% of his targets and Knox was kept in to chip or outright block as our RT is dreadful. So we signed some speed, but it's only potential. How good would it be to have a real proven #2 to give Josh another quality option? And if not now, when? 

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

I see both sides of this. Last year, when we really needed a play and Diggs was doubled, nobody could seem to get separation and get open.  My opinion is it's both on Dorsey and our #2&3 receivers. Dorsey had little care of situational football awareness when dialing up a bomb on a 3rd and 2 on a crucial ball control drive.  Davis caught only 50% of his targets and Knox was kept in to chip or outright block as our RT is dreadful. So we signed some speed, but it's only potential. How good would it be to have a real proven #2 to give Josh another quality option? And if not now, when? 

It's this notion that Davis somehow is not "a real proven #2" that I don't get.   What's not real and proven about 48 receptions for 836 yards (17.4 per reception) and 7 touchdowns in 15 games?   I think there were three teams with two receivers over 1000 yards each, and that proves that it's unusual to have two.   Davis doesn't have to go over 1000 to be a "real proven #2."   What he did in 2022 proved it.  

 

It's a luxury to have two receivers over 1000 yards, and it's a luxury that is short-lived.  Teams can't afford to pay two.  (And, by the way, ten more receptions gets Davis over 100 yards, and do you really doubt that better protection and better work from Dorsey won't get Davis ten more receptions?  I don't.) 

 

Now, if you're operating the team from the perspective that you have a "window" to succeed, then, yes, sometimes you blow out the budget to try for one magical season.  But Beane and McDermott have been completely clear that they are building for sustained, long-term success, and they are not going to blow the future by writing big checks to create some kind of dream receivers room for one year.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Green Lightning said:

I see both sides of this. Last year, when we really needed a play and Diggs was doubled, nobody could seem to get separation and get open.  My opinion is it's both on Dorsey and our #2&3 receivers. Dorsey had little care of situational football awareness when dialing up a bomb on a 3rd and 2 on a crucial ball control drive.  Davis caught only 50% of his targets and Knox was kept in to chip or outright block as our RT is dreadful. So we signed some speed, but it's only potential. How good would it be to have a real proven #2 to give Josh another quality option? And if not now, when? 

And the offensive line to give them time to get open….

[Alphadawg7]

On 3/20/2023 at 12:47 PM, Warcodered said:

 

 

This really is a fantastic read, and it really lets fans into the real world business behind the scenes of the NFL that they don't see on TV or even know exists.  There is a reason every Dolphin fan I know hates that we got him too.  

 

I think this guy brings a lot to this team, and I keep seeing everyone listing him as 5th on the depth chart or looking at him as just a ST guy.  But he is going to be the immediate backup on the outside, and I wouldn't be surprised if he eats into Davis snaps this season unless Davis has a major bounce back.  

 

I actually think it could potentially mirror 2021 when Sanders was the #2 and Davis started eating into his snaps in the 2nd half of the season and Davis started carving out a bigger role.  

 

I think Diggs/Davis/Sherfield will resemble snap counts of Diggs/Sanders/Davis in 2021 and Harty (having replaced McKenzie) will compete with Shakir for the starting slot position and could have some rotation there too as they both bring different things to the table.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It's this notion that Davis somehow is not "a real proven #2" that I don't get.   What's not real and proven about 48 receptions for 836 yards (17.4 per reception) and 7 touchdowns in 15 games?   I think there were three teams with two receivers over 1000 yards each, and that proves that it's unusual to have two.   Davis doesn't have to go over 1000 to be a "real proven #2."   What he did in 2022 proved it.  

 

It's a luxury to have two receivers over 1000 yards, and it's a luxury that is short-lived.  Teams can't afford to pay two.  (And, by the way, ten more receptions gets Davis over 100 yards, and do you really doubt that better protection and better work from Dorsey won't get Davis ten more receptions?  I don't.) 

 

Now, if you're operating the team from the perspective that you have a "window" to succeed, then, yes, sometimes you blow out the budget to try for one magical season.  But Beane and McDermott have been completely clear that they are building for sustained, long-term success, and they are not going to blow the future by writing big checks to create some kind of dream receivers room for one year.  

I don’t think those stats, in this offense, with our QB proves anything except he was the #2 option.  I think many WRs would have put up those stats playing in our offense with Josh allen throwing him passes, running routes opposite Diggs. 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think those stats, in this offense, with our QB proves anything except he was the #2 option.  I think many WRs would have put up those stats playing in our offense with Josh allen throwing him passes, running routes opposite Diggs. 

I think that's nonsense.  KC won the Super Bowl with a great QB, and they didn't have a number 2 over 1000 yards.  They just had Kelce.   That's my whole point.  A super stud number 2 is a luxury, not a necessity.   Allen can get 4000 yards with the receivers and backs he has.  No problem 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I think that's nonsense.  KC won the Super Bowl with a great QB, and they didn't have a number 2 over 1000 yards.  They just had Kelce.   That's my whole point.  A super stud number 2 is a luxury, not a necessity.   Allen can get 4000 yards with the receivers and backs he has.  No problem 

So KC having a a WR with over 1000 yards would’ve made things different? Juju had  933 yards——- and 30 more catches than Gabe-  on 8 more targets…..while missing 3 games.  
 

When forming my opinion of Gabe Davis as a good WR2, I don’t look at stats.  I look at making clutch catches when Diggs is bracketed.  I look at separation.  If they don’t get much separation, I look at contested catches.  If you want to look at stats- look at drops.  Look at catch %.  Not volume stats based on playing time on a team that had ZERO other outside WRs to compete with him.

 

I hope we replace and trade him.  He wont be worth the next contract as our #4.  He’s not good enough to be our WR2.  
 

agree to disagree

Edited March 22, 2023 by NewEra

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

It's this notion that Davis somehow is not "a real proven #2" that I don't get.   What's not real and proven about 48 receptions for 836 yards (17.4 per reception) and 7 touchdowns in 15 games?   I think there were three teams with two receivers over 1000 yards each, and that proves that it's unusual to have two.   Davis doesn't have to go over 1000 to be a "real proven #2."   What he did in 2022 proved it.  

 

 

My issue with Davis is the amout of targets compared to receptions.....  

Maybe thats because Allen goes long often and those %s will drop, but he barely crosses 50% which is unacceptable when you are trying to move the chains 


Looking at this chart Davis and Shakir were 50% and 52%... Davis was our #2 in targets. I dont think that is good enough, something has to improve here if these players are our future

 

https://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/targets/?season=2022-2023&team=BUF

compare to CIncinnatti, who doesn't have anyone below 60% target/rec till player #10 on their list

 

https://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/targets/?season=2022-2023&team=CIN

and KC

 

https://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/targets/?season=2022-2023&team=KC

 

KC has 2 players hitting 52% or lower in the top 6. But they have to get to 3rd most targeted player to hit that 52% and less targets

 

 

 

I guess I want to see more consitency from our #2 WR, now that could be on Allen for forcing the ball downfield, or it could be our scheme which pushed the ball downfield to often and loweered our target/Rec % but any way you slice it we need more consistency from our O and less incompletes/INTs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

So KC having a a WR with over 1000 yards would’ve made things different? Juju had  933 yards——- and 30 more catches than Gabe-  on 8 more targets…..while missing 3 games.  
 

When forming my opinion of Gabe Davis as a good WR2, I don’t look at stats.  I look at making clutch catches when Diggs is bracketed.  I look at separation.  If they don’t get much separation, I look at contested catches.  If you want to look at stats- look at drops.  Look at catch %.  Not volume stats based on playing time on a team that had ZERO other outside WRs to compete with him.

 

I hope we replace and trade him.  He wont be worth the next contract as our #4.  He’s not good enough to be our WR2.  
 

agree to disagree

Got the agree to disagree.

 

I look for production of the offense, not for little nuanced stats like contested catches or catches when Diggs is bracketed.  All I have said and continue to say is that the production that Davis gives the Bills is good #2 production, and the solution to the problems on offense (real or perceived) is not to get a receiver who will get you 200 more yards per season.  Having a #1 receiver playing behind your true #1 receiver is not a sustainable plan for the offense.  

 

The solution to the offense is to improve the offensive line so that running backs have consistently better opportunities and so that Allen isn't forced out of the pocket so much.   That's what will improve the total offensive production in a sustainable way.  

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

 

My issue with Davis is the amout of targets compared to receptions.....  

Maybe thats because Allen goes long often and those %s will drop, but he barely crosses 50% which is unacceptable when you are trying to move the chains 


Looking at this chart Davis and Shakir were 50% and 52%... Davis was our #2 in targets. I dont think that is good enough, something has to improve here if these players are our future

 

https://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/targets/?season=2022-2023&team=BUF

compare to CIncinnatti, who doesn't have anyone below 60% target/rec till player #10 on their list

 

https://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/targets/?season=2022-2023&team=CIN

and KC

 

https://edraft.com/nfl/fantasy-football/tools/targets/?season=2022-2023&team=KC

 

KC has 2 players hitting 52% or lower in the top 6. But they have to get to 3rd most targeted player to hit that 52% and less targets

 

 

 

I guess I want to see more consitency from our #2 WR, now that could be on Allen for forcing the ball downfield, or it could be our scheme which pushed the ball downfield to often and loweered our target/Rec % but any way you slice it we need more consistency from our O and less incompletes/INTs

 

Yeah, I completely agree about Davis's reception numbers.   They are completely puzzling to me, but I don't think they necessarily mean what we think they mean.   Someone would have to take a deep dive into the film to understand it. 

 

Purely anecdotally, I remember that Davis had more drops on easily catchable balls than I thought he should.  I also remember Allen making some desperation throws to him that were targets, yes, but not very catchable balls.  

 

I've seen enough of him to know that he can be a very reliable receiver catching catchable balls.   He seemed to do that less well last season.  

 

But these are stats that the Bills have analyzed already and to the extent any underperformance exists, adjustments have been developed and will be installed in the coming months.   That's what the coaches do this time of year.  And that's why it's up Dorsey.   Diggs is great and Davis is a very good number 2; the job is to get them open and to give Allen time to get the ball to them.   They have talented guys in the slot.   They have talented running backs.  They have an all-world quarterback.   Upgrades in skill position talent are always nice, but they don't need any upgrades beyond where they are right now (barring Injuries) to be a top-5 offense once again in 2023.   They need an offensive line and an appropriately creative offensive coordinator.  

[Einstein]

20 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I honestly have not followed this guy much so I’m not gonna act like I know anything about him

 

What I do know is this I’m a big fan of poaching free agents off of teams at positions of their strength

 

Even if a player is the third wide receiver on their team if they have superstars in front of them, that doesn’t mean that that third player is a bad player might actually be a very good player

 

He has speed and size plays special teams

and blocks for the run seems like a Buffalo Bill

 

The Bills will be his 4th team in 6 seasons.

 

This is not a situation of poaching an unheralded good WR off of a stud-filled team.

 

This is a situation of being another stop in a journeymen's journey.

 

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

adjustments have been developed and will be installed in the coming months. 

 

Those adjustments should have been made during the season. When it actually counts.

 

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Diggs is great and Davis is a very good number 2

Davis is barely an average #3. Let alone a "very good" #2.

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Einstein

[NewEra]

32 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I completely agree about Davis's reception numbers.   They are completely puzzling to me, but I don't think they necessarily mean what we think they mean.   Someone would have to take a deep dive into the film to understand it. 

 

Purely anecdotally, I remember that Davis had more drops on easily catchable balls than I thought he should.  I also remember Allen making some desperation throws to him that were targets, yes, but not very catchable balls.  

 

I've seen enough of him to know that he can be a very reliable receiver catching catchable balls.   He seemed to do that less well last season.  

 

But these are stats that the Bills have analyzed already and to the extent any underperformance exists, adjustments have been developed and will be installed in the coming months.   That's what the coaches do this time of year.  And that's why it's up Dorsey.   Diggs is great and Davis is a very good number 2; the job is to get them open and to give Allen time to get the ball to them.   They have talented guys in the slot.   They have talented running backs.  They have an all-world quarterback.   Upgrades in skill position talent are always nice, but they don't need any upgrades beyond where they are right now (barring Injuries) to be a top-5 offense once again in 2023.   They need an offensive line and an appropriately creative offensive coordinator.  

Good post- I agree. I don’t think that we “need” a star WR2.  I think it could help- and if we traded for a Hopkins- jeudy or signed OBj I’d be really fired up about it.  The only cons to the move is future cap.  That’s the main con to adding any star player.  
 

Especially agree with the last sentence.  Gabe would be better with a better OL because Josh would be better.  Same goes for play calling.  Other than injuries, I thought OL and Dorsey (along with Frazier) were the main reasons our season ended how it did. 
 

give me a tackle in Rd 1 and Avila or Schmitz in round 2 and I’d be very happy.  

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

give me a tackle in Rd 1 and Avila or Schmitz in round 2 and I’d be very happy.  

I don't follow the draft until it actually happens, and I don't even know who Avila and Schmitz are.  I had to look them up. 

 

I'm all on board with this.  I've never been a huge Morse fan, and his days are numbered, so let's get someone solid there.   And a tackle.  Or a premier guard, but tackle is the greater need.  

 

 

[NewEra]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

I don't follow the draft until it actually happens, and I don't even know who Avila and Schmitz are.  I had to look them up. 

 

I'm all on board with this.  I've never been a huge Morse fan, and his days are numbered, so let's get someone solid there.   And a tackle.  Or a premier guard, but tackle is the greater need.  

 

 

Yeah i think it’s tough to say which is more important because there are many variables;  potential Morse retirement, potential Spencer Brown improvement;  potential bates improvement/regression.  Dawkins future.  
 

as of now, I’d agree, OT more important because Brown needs to be challenged (at least).   I’d draft the tackle first, taking into consideration the prospects in the draft. I think I’d go Broderick Jones= Darnell Wright >Anton Harrison in that order.  There aren’t any IOL worth 27 imo.  

[Shaw66]

58 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Those adjustments should have been made during the season. When it actually counts.

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more about the adjustments.   I simply do not think that Dorsey had a very good year.   It was as though he came out of the gate with Daboll's offense and then didn't know what to do with it as defenses around the league adjusted, not just to the Bills but to all the good passing teams.  

 

In my view, either Dorsey needed a rookie year in the job or he just isn't good enough to do the job.   He got the running game going a bit later in the season, but that too was something Daboll did.  

 

That's why I've been saying over and over - Oline and Dorsey. 

 

As for that video, it's actually not as bad as I feared.  There are maybe 15 plays in there, and three of the drops were excellent plays by defenders knocking the ball out of Davis's hands as it arrived.   I can look at those, and Davis can too, and say "should have had it," but the reality is that those are tough catches.  They beg other questions, like what kind of route leaves him so covered, why is Allen throwing to him instead of someone else, etc.  In fact, on some, Davis is double covered.   

 

Then there's one that was an Allen express and Davis was a split second late on it.  We've seen everyone, including Diggs, miss those occasionally.  The last replay on the video is a ball where Allen led him too far - as the ball is going through his outstretched hands, Davis's foot is about to step out of bounds.  

 

As I said before, I think all the detailed data can be misleading.

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Yeah i think it’s tough to say which is more important because there are many variables;  potential Morse retirement, potential Spencer Brown improvement;  potential bates improvement/regression.  Dawkins future.  
 

as of now, I’d agree, OT more important because Brown needs to be challenged (at least).   I’d draft the tackle first, taking into consideration the prospects in the draft. I think I’d go Broderick Jones= Darnell Wright >Anton Harrison in that order.  There aren’t any IOL worth 27 imo.  

Thanks.  As I said, I don't know any of these guys, but it's good to know that there are oline prospects worth taking in the first round.  Im my perfect world, I wouldn't mind a tackle at 27 and a trade up in the second to take a center.   One think about taking someone to replace Morse is that he perhaps could displace Bates in his rookie season, let him play beside Morse for a year and eventually move over.   Two birds with one stone. 

[Einstein]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I couldn't agree more about the adjustments.   I simply do not think that Dorsey had a very good year.   It was as though he came out of the gate with Daboll's offense and then didn't know what to do with it as defenses around the league adjusted, not just to the Bills but to all the good passing teams.  

 

In my view, either Dorsey needed a rookie year in the job or he just isn't good enough to do the job.   He got the running game going a bit later in the season, but that too was something Daboll did.  

 

That's why I've been saying over and over - Oline and Dorsey. 

 

As for that video, it's actually not as bad as I feared.  There are maybe 15 plays in there, and three of the drops were excellent plays by defenders knocking the ball out of Davis's hands as it arrived.   I can look at those, and Davis can too, and say "should have had it," but the reality is that those are tough catches.  They beg other questions, like what kind of route leaves him so covered, why is Allen throwing to him instead of someone else, etc.  In fact, on some, Davis is double covered.   

 

Then there's one that was an Allen express and Davis was a split second late on it.  We've seen everyone, including Diggs, miss those occasionally.  The last replay on the video is a ball where Allen led him too far - as the ball is going through his outstretched hands, Davis's foot is about to step out of bounds.  

 

As I said before, I think all the detailed data can be misleading.

Thanks.  As I said, I don't know any of these guys, but it's good to know that there are oline prospects worth taking in the first round.  Im my perfect world, I wouldn't mind a tackle at 27 and a trade up in the second to take a center.   One think about taking someone to replace Morse is that he perhaps could displace Bates in his rookie season, let him play beside Morse for a year and eventually move over.   Two birds with one stone. 

 

You're such a gentlemen. We need more posters like you.

[Shaw66]

13 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

You're such a gentlemen. We need more posters like you.

Did I fall asleep and just wake up on April1?

[1ManRaid]

On 3/21/2023 at 8:35 AM, dje85 said:

I doubt that since one of those players was such a personality off the field he was best buds with a Korean dictator. 

 

Ok I didn't pick the best example but my point more or less stands.  See if anyone can name the OTHER two starters lol.

Edited March 25, 2023 by 1ManRaid

[Warcodered]

 

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

We haven’t had that kind of run blocking since Robert woods

[Orlando Tim]

I have students who love the dolphins and they told me that Sherfield is most effective against zone defenses, that he has more issues against Man coverage. If true could he be the new Cole Beasley? The guy who sits in the hole in the zone and gets 7 yards? I want to be excited but don't see him being better than lil Dirty at this moment. 

[bearcat]

I guess you could say dirty was better against man. Running away from the coverage. Didn't do very well with finding the soft spot in zone and getting open for Allen. Hopefully this helps with moving the chains.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

I have students who love the dolphins and they told me that Sherfield is most effective against zone defenses, that he has more issues against Man coverage. If true could he be the new Cole Beasley? The guy who sits in the hole in the zone and gets 7 yards? I want to be excited but don't see him being better than lil Dirty at this moment. 

 

I would think that against man coverage, Waddle and Hill would laugh and say “Feed Me!”