It's WAAAYYY Overdue - Holding Calls Should be 5 Yards

[Ned Flanders]

I remember when holding was actually a 15 yard penalty.

[buffaloboyinATL]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

I think 10 yard penalty is perfect.

As others have said, a sack usually results in the loss of 5-7 yards anyway. If it was only a five yard penalty, people would hold all of the time to save themselves the down.

The penalty has to be bad enough that teams don't do it on purpose.

If we want to talk about the enforcement or language of holding penalties, that's fine, but the penalty yardage for it is right on point, IMO.

Now....defensive pass interference? THAT should change. 45-yard penalties that decide game outcomes are ridiculous and should not happen.

Actually, I think pass interference needs to remain what it is, for similar reasons as what you said about holding.  Guys would almost never give up deep passes anymore in the NFL, they would just tackle the receiver early and take the penalty. DB's in the NFL give up much less separation than they typically do in college, so it is way more likely to happen. IMO

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

I would like to see holding limited to only being called when egregious, on both sides of the ball, football is supposed to be a physical game. It doesn’t mean you have to try and take each other’s heads off or try to hurt your opponent, but if you’re going to be ejecting players like Hamlin after clean hits then the league has to ease up on calls that aren’t protecting players, i.e. Holding/PI and let players play.  

 

[MRW]

2 hours ago, BearNorth said:

What about a compromise, Offensive holding is a 5 yard penalty and loss of down, similar to intentional grounding or a sack.

 

 

 

I agreed, not because I'm sure it's a great idea, but this is the only possible change that could be made without making it too tempting to hold all the time.

[billykay]

4 hours ago, Fleezoid said:

Automatic first down on defensive holding is worse. Could be 3rd and 25 and a guy gets held 8 yards downfield and bam, new set of downs. Egregious when it happens near the red zone. 

Agreed. Especially when the hold is of the tickki- tackki variety on the other side of the field. Automatic first downs on a 3rd &35 should be changed. I don't have a perfect solution. Perhaps 10 yards but not an automatic 1st down.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Ned Flanders said:

I remember when holding was actually a 15 yard penalty.

 

I didn't know it ever was...when was that?

 

Apparently tho it still COULD be...but never is.

 

"Once an official spots an offensive holding penalty, this will result in a 10-yard penalty, or half a distance to the goal line if the line of scrimmage is less than 20 yards from the offense’s end zone. However, it could be bumped up to a 15-yard penalty if the refs deem the blocker’s excessive aggression."

[Ned Flanders]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I didn't know it ever was...when was that?

 

Apparently tho it still COULD be...but never is.

 

"Once an official spots an offensive holding penalty, this will result in a 10-yard penalty, or half a distance to the goal line if the line of scrimmage is less than 20 yards from the offense’s end zone. However, it could be bumped up to a 15-yard penalty if the refs deem the blocker’s excessive aggression."

 

Starting in 1978, all illegal blocking fouls (except personal fouls) were reduced from 15 to 10 yard penalties.

https://www.footballzebras.com/2019/10/nfl100-90-year-old-rules-made-for-a-different-game/

[Einstein's Dog]

Since we're airing grievances, I'll put my change.  Get rid of the stupid shovel pass.  It degrades the game in a feminine way.  Mahomes does this a lot.

[Pokebball]

I thought Crosby was held all game last night.

[Utah John]

Back in the day, probably the 60s and maybe the 70s, offensive holding was a 15 yard penalty.  That killed too many drives, and the league wants offense, so the owners changed it to a 10 yard penalty.

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Since we're airing grievances, I'll put my change.  Get rid of the stupid shovel pass.  It degrades the game in a feminine way.  Mahomes does this a lot.

 

Uh no...would they get rid of a legal forward pass?

[Einstein's Dog]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Uh no...would they get rid of a legal forward pass?

Uh no....it would be more like they don't allow forward laterals.

 

I still remember the Houston playoff game and Watson did this weak looking underhanded stuff to an RB that didn't connect.  The Bills recovered and they went back and said "incomplete pass".  BS.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Uh no....it would be more like they don't allow forward laterals.

 

I still remember the Houston playoff game and Watson did this weak looking underhanded stuff to an RB that didn't connect.  The Bills recovered and they went back and said "incomplete pass".  BS.

 

It's not a lateral. It's a legal forward pass from behind the line of scrimmage.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Big Turk

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

It's not a lateral. It's a legal forward pass from behind the line of scrimmage.

Yes, right now, the shuttle pass is considered a legal forward pass,  My point was to change its treatment to make it like a lateral.

 

Don't worry we would still let your boy do those girlish little side arm things.

 

[Fleezoid]

3 hours ago, El_diablo said:

What about changing the pass interference rule like they have in college.  10 yards.

 

I don't like the spot foul 50 yards down field. I think it should be a spot foul inside 15 yards, anything longer is 15 yard penalty. Automatic first down for all scenarios. 

[ticketssince61]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

All part of rules designed to help the offense and score more points for the fans and to increase popularity.  The casual fans who are the biggest demographic want to see points scored when they go to games, not defensive struggles.

 

Perhaps separate the types of DPI?  Egregious/non-egregious? 

 

I think that makes a lot of sense.

 

The one problem is the subjectivity of it would cause a lot of problems, but on the other hand, it would allow ref's to call it more often since the results would not be as catastrophic

 

 

[Southern_Bills]

Doesn't really matter, people will still complain (myself included) about when it gets called.

 

And if it were called every time it happened we would complain about too many penalties. 

 

The penalty that is my major gripe is defensive holding on receivers, I haven't done the research but I'd really like to know the percentage of Mahomes game winning drives that got extended by such a call, probably would explain alot of his "magic" 🤷

[frostbitmic]

Considering that defensive holding is 5 yards and a first down, perhaps making the offensive holding calls should be 5 yards and a loss of down.

[L Ron Burgundy]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The fact that this penalty basically happens on EVERY SINGLE DOWN, isn't it ridiculous that it is still 10 yards? These penalties are drive killers and they ruin the offensive vibe immediately. I don't think I have ever heard this being brought up at owner's meetings and there is no reason that it should not be 5 yards. What am I missing here?

No.  One of the things I don't like about football holding.   First I'd make it 15 yards to discourage it.  Then I'd speed the penalty calling process up so it doesn't take so long to call one.   I think the game would be even more exciting if they rolled like that.  Crazy defensive plays would happen with more frequency.  The hope would be severely limiting holds obviously. 

[ArtVandalay]

Last thing we need is to swing more rules to the offense. Half your defensive penalties are automatic first downs, ridiculous.

 

If we are going to shorten holding to 5 years, then it is also loss of down. 

 

Offensive PI needs to be loss of down as well.

[cwater10]

15 hours ago, Ned Flanders said:

I remember when holding was actually a 15 yard penalty.

Ah, fun times!  

 

A young Bills tackle, Ken Jones actually changed his number from 69 to 72 in attempt to stop/trick refs from looking to flag his number automatically on pass plays.  Rule was changed to a simple 10 yard penalty in 1978.  About that time, Ken Jones (coincidentally?) became one of the better tackles in the league.

Edited December 10, 2022 by cwater10

[BobbyC81]

19 hours ago, Logic said:

I think 10 yard penalty is perfect.

As others have said, a sack usually results in the loss of 5-7 yards anyway. If it was only a five yard penalty, people would hold all of the time to save themselves the down.

The penalty has to be bad enough that teams don't do it on purpose.

If we want to talk about the enforcement or language of holding penalties, that's fine, but the penalty yardage for it is right on point, IMO.

Now....defensive pass interference? THAT should change. 45-yard penalties that decide game outcomes are ridiculous and should not happen.

A bigger issue to me is penalties called that really didn’t affect the play.  They need to use more common sense.  A run goes to the right and a blocker on the left side gets called for holding.  Sure it may affect the defender’s pursuit but not always.  
 

For the pass interference, I agree they should make it 15 yards again.  It’s still significant so defenders don’t just tackle receivers so they don’t get beat but not game changing.

Edited December 10, 2022 by BobbyC81

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

A bigger issue to me is penalties called that really didn’t affect the play.  They need to use more common sense.  A run goes to the right and a blocker on the left side gets called for holding.  Sure it may affect the defender’s pursuit but not always.  

Yep. The whole spirit of the rules is to prevent an unfair advantage. The refs seem to forget this sometimes and will call some ticky-tack violation that had no impact on the play. It should always be in the back of their minds "did this create an unfair advantage for the offending team?" If not, pick up the flag and move on.

[Locomark]

I would be tackling people as an OL if I knew I would only cost my team a measly 5 yards and not even loose a down. With a sack you loose a down and more than 5 yards so you might as well hold every down. 

[Goin Breakdown]

Keep things as is. Teams would be holding more if it were only 5 yards. Want to eliminate holding. Make the penalty even farther. 50 yards haha. I'm not serious. Seriously

[Steve O]

Well, defensive holding is 5 yards automatic first down.  Offensive holding should also be 5 yards but automatic 4th down. Either that or do away with the automatic 1st down on defensive holding.  Hate seeing third and 20, a 5 yard hold away from the play but the drive continues because of the piddly a$$ holding call.