What the Defense is really missing...

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

Other than McD presser at end of year, any idea or news on Tre recovery?  Curious what is time line and if will be ready by camp?  Is he rehabing in BLO or elsewhere?  I’m sure it has been discussed before but appreciate any info

 

Watching Rams d in super bowl and Darnold lining up all over the place and last 13 seconds showed our lack of SA and scheming hold them back a ton. We could use a stud rusher and another stellar corner opposite Tre but does seem like biggest thing holding us back to being elite is coaching. 

 

Yeah, there was a miscommunication late in the playoff game, and the guy at fault is gone (quietly and with class). We went SEVENTEEN YEARS without a playoff appearance, and now we are a regular Super Bowl favorite. Sure, let’s bash the coaching.

 

Are we NOT elite? Is that what you are saying? We messed up, we didn’t win the Super Bowl. There are 31 other teams that can say the same thing, but we had a better shot than most of them. That loss to the Chiefs was one of the best football games I’ve ever seen. Sadly, it had a bad ending. 

 

Everyone has needs, and we have ours. I think we generally handle filling them as well as anyone. Another great CB would be awesome, but I trust our group to pick and coach up DB’s. 

 

Tre will be back, but it will probably take until later in the season for him to feel like the real deal again. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Frazier and McD are still here…

 

Say it, what is your point? Should they not be? 

 

 

.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Augie

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I disagree with the notion that the defense wasn't a paper tiger to a degree. They absolutely whooped every below average to terrible offense they faced this year and they faced an abnormally large amount of those bad offenses this year. But they did not perform well against any of the above average offenses that I recall. Titans, Colts, Bucs all put up a lot of yards and points and those were basically the only good offenses we faced. Could throw in the Chiefs but that was at a time when they were struggling.

 

I also think it is telling that the Patriots also had this dominating defense most the year by the statistics but clearly they could not stop the Bills offense at all with the exception of 30+ mph winds. Another paper tiger defense inside our own division playing many of the same below average offenses. And even Miami went on there winning streak when their defense started dominating the bad offenses on their schedule. I'd say there were three paper tiger defenses in the division.

[Augie]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

You are blaming special teams for the incredibly awful defensive breakdown with 13 seconds left…

 

You didn’t answer my two questions. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

22 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You didn’t answer my two questions. 

 

I know that is not directed to me but I have no idea what the first question is asking. As for the second question. Of course McD should still be here but holy crap did he royally screw up the final 13 seconds. And that includes the the kick off IMO since he is the head coach. But even if we want to give him a pass for the kick off there is no defending the defensive formations of the final 13 seconds. That was a coaching choke job for the ages. 

 

McD gets a pass for taking this team to the playoffs in 4 out of the last 5 seasons after a 17 year playoff drought. I think McD is safe in terms of his near future but I wouldn't rule anything out should the Bills one and done in the playoffs next year or the unthinkable happens and he chokes two consecutive years. 

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I know that is not directed to me but I have no idea what the first question is asking. As for the second question. Of course McD should still be here but holy crap did he royally screw up the final 13 seconds. And that includes the the kick off IMO since he is the head coach. But even if we want to give him a pass for the kick off there is no defending the defensive formations of the final 13 seconds. That was a coaching choke job for the ages. 

 

McD gets a pass for taking this team to the playoffs in 4 out of the last 5 seasons after a 17 year playoff drought. I think McD is safe in terms of his near future but I wouldn't rule anything out should the Bills one and done in the playoffs next year or the unthinkable happens and he chokes two consecutive years. 

 

I thought it was pretty obvious, but I’m happy to try to make it more clear. My first question was “what is your point?” He wanted to complain, just to complain, it appears. I think he knows it’s stupid to come out and say we should replace our coaches based upon how the last game ended. That feels like childish ranting. I don’t want to speak for him, but without an answer, I just have to guess. 

 

If you think McD “gets a pass” but you wouldn’t rule anything out if he goes one and done in the playoffs next year, I respectfully suggest you are also out of touch with reality. We have one of the most highly regarded front offices and coaching staffs in the league. Yep, things went sideways at the end, but adults who see the big picture will be making the decisions. 

 

Look at what you assumed in bold. You ASSUMED the playoffs! Something we missed out on for almost two decades!

 

Nobody is perfect, and we should all strive to learn and get better every year at everything we do. McD has earned my respect, and we are fortunate to have him. 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Yeah, there was a miscommunication late in the playoff game, and the guy at fault is gone (quietly and with class). We went SEVENTEEN YEARS without a playoff appearance, and now we are a regular Super Bowl favorite. Sure, let’s bash the coaching.

 

Are we NOT elite? Is that what you are saying? We messed up, we didn’t win the Super Bowl. There are 31 other teams that can say the same thing, but we had a better shot than most of them. That loss to the Chiefs was one of the best football games I’ve ever seen. Sadly, it had a bad ending. 

 

Everyone has needs, and we have ours. I think we generally handle filling them as well as anyone. Another great CB would be awesome, but I trust our group to pick and coach up DB’s. 

 

Tre will be back, but it will probably take until later in the season for him to feel like the real deal again. 

I don’t think Defense is elite.  They were good and certain stats might have suggested otherwise but elite, no.  I think part of that was coaching.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

21 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I thought it was pretty obvious, but I’m happy to try to make it more clear. My first question was “what is your point?” He wanted to complain, just to complain, it appears. I think he knows it’s stupid to come out and say we should replace our coaches based upon how the last game ended. That feels like childish ranting. I don’t want to speak for him, but without an answer, I just have to guess. 

 

If you think McD “gets a pass” but you wouldn’t rule anything out if he goes one and done in the playoffs next year, I respectfully suggest you are also out of touch with reality. We have one of the most highly regarded front offices and coaching staffs in the league. Yep, things went sideways at the end, but adults who see the big picture will be making the decisions. 

 

Look at what you assumed in bold. You ASSUMED the playoffs! Something we missed out on for almost two decades!

 

Nobody is perfect, and we should all strive to learn and get better every year at everything we do. McD has earned my respect, and we are fortunate to have him. 

 

Oh i see. I think the first two words threw me off.

 

I don't disagree but it happens. Coaches running their course that is. Even Andy Reid ran out of time in Philadelphia and he had far more success than McDermott. I'm not going to lie. I have an incredibly sour taste in my mouth with how those 13 seconds were handled by McD as I think most fans would. He gets the benefit of the doubt but if it were happen to again? Two years in a row? Or if he gets bounced in the first game? It could happen. Not saying it would. Right or wrong I just see their being an opening for a justification at that point. Prior to this postseason their wasn't an ounce of justification. But through McDermott's own doing there is an once now should the team underperform or McDermott chokes again.

 

I guess where I disagree with you is the idea that the special teams coach is gone and he was the reason why we lost. I certainly blame McDermott more than one special teams mishap. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Oh i see. I think the first two words threw me off.

 

I don't disagree but it happens. Coaches running their course that is. Even Andy Reid ran out of time in Philadelphia and he had far more success than McDermott. I'm not going to lie. I have an incredibly sour taste in my mouth with how those 13 seconds were handled by McD as I think most fans would. He gets the benefit of the doubt but if it were happen to again? Two years in a row? Or if he gets bounced in the first game? It could happen. Not saying it would. Right or wrong I just see their being an opening for a justification at that point. Prior to this postseason their wasn't an ounce of justification. But through McDermott's own doing there is an once now should the team underperform or McDermott chokes again.

 

I guess where I disagree with you is the idea that the special teams coach is gone and he was the reason why we lost. I certainly blame McDermott more than one special teams mishap. 

 

I never said he was THE reason we lost. It was ONE reason we lost. I have managed teams of people in my working years. You lay out expectations, and expect them to be executed as designed. Their was a failure there, and ultimately that falls on the HC. And he acted, and now we have a new ST coach. 

 

People are having a hard time getting over a rough loss. I understand that. I ask this: how many other teams look more promising than our Bills? 

 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

1 minute ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I don’t think Defense is elite.  They were good and certain stats might have suggested otherwise but elite, no.  I think part of that was coaching.  

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Oh i see. I think the first two words threw me off.

 

I don't disagree but it happens. Coaches running their course that is. Even Andy Reid ran out of time in Philadelphia and he had far more success than McDermott. I'm not going to lie. I have an incredibly sour taste in my mouth with how those 13 seconds were handled by McD as I think most fans would. He gets the benefit of the doubt but if it were happen to again? Two years in a row? Or if he gets bounced in the first game? It could happen. Not saying it would. Right or wrong I just see their being an opening for a justification at that point. Prior to this postseason their wasn't an ounce of justification. But through McDermott's own doing there is an once now should the team underperform or McDermott chokes again.

 

I guess where I disagree with you is the idea that the special teams coach is gone and he was the reason why we lost. I certainly blame McDermott more than one special teams mishap. 

Agree. While I still think we should of squib it, given our history with the squib and Chiefs speed it was “forgivable”. Those 13 seconds are tough though.  During the called timeouts, we had time to see formation and we still didn’t change anything and let ball go right to their best players largely uncontested. It was unreal.  That jackoff Kelce was mic’d up saying it.  It really seems like the moment was too big for McD and Frazier and that is troubling.  Obviously grateful for what they have done in terms of playoffs and changing culture but that really left a lot of people wondering if they can coach in moments like that and there will hopefully be many more as long as JA17 has the rock. Go Bills. 

[Augie]

15 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I don’t think Defense is elite.  They were good and certain stats might have suggested otherwise but elite, no.  I think part of that was coaching.  

Who had better defenses? Please name them.  The stats say we were pretty darn good. I don’t know how anyone defines “elite”, but we were not a defense that warrants a lot of whining. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I never said he was THE reason we lost. It was ONE reason we lost. I have managed teams of people in my working years. You lay out expectations, and expect them to be executed as designed. Their was a failure there, and ultimately that falls on the HC. And he acted, and now we have a new ST coach. 

 

People are having a hard time getting over a rough loss. I understand that. I ask this: how many other teams look more promising than our Bills? 

 

 

The only one I can think of is the Bengals because of the cap space.  But their division is a lot tougher than the Bills division and they don't have Josh Allen. With high expectations comes a lot of scrutiny should a team not meet them. So far McDermott has done very well. Let's hope his choke job was a once in a lifetime occurrence. 

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

Who had better defenses? Please name them.  The stats say we were pretty darn good. I don’t know how anyone defines “elite”, but we were not a defense that warrants a lot of whining. 

 

They were a paper tiger defense for sure. They are good but not nearly as good as the stats indicated. Our entire division outside of the Jets were paper tigers on defense. Pats were what the number 2 or 3 defense in the league? But were no punted by the Bills not once but twice. The Dolphins even had an elite level defense during their winning streak which coincided with playing really bad offenses. The common denominator was largely playing the same bad QB's and bad offenses. 

[Augie]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

The only one I can think of is the Bengals because of the cap space.  But their division is a lot tougher than the Bills division and they don't have Josh Allen. With high expectations comes a lot of scrutiny should a team not meet them. So far McDermott has done very well. Let's hope his choke job was a once in a lifetime occurrence. 

 

Cheap owners probably ruin that. Joe Burrow is the next David Carr if they don’t spend the money to protect him. If you think Ralph was cheap, he was the SUPER generous uncle to the Bengals! 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Every team has a different answer.  That is my point.

 

I definitely don't think man-coverage is a good plan against Tyreek Hill.  Nor is it smart to blitz a lot.

But you can still mix in a good amount of man coverage against other players on the Chiefs offense.  Send the occasional surprise blitz.  At least keep them guessing.

 

What the Bills do... they do extremely well.

It's just that some opponents require a change-up pitch, and we don't seem to have the players to accomplish that.

 

I think we have the players, I don’t think LF had a plan B last season when it was appropriate to shift to a plan B. 

 

   Our D is over all very good, but needs the occasional tactic shift as warranted.   I am hopeful we see such a thing a couple times this upcoming season. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Riverboat Ritchie]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

Who had better defenses? Please name them.  The stats say we were pretty darn good. I don’t know how anyone defines “elite”, but we were not a defense that warrants a lot of whining. 

I realize that if we are going by stats, the Bills would be considered elite ( I’d define as like Olympics top 3 although just pulling that out of a$$ ). But we did play some really bad QBs and at least visually, I’d argue Rams, Cowgirls, Bucs, Chiefs, broncos, niners, raiders, may all of been better than than us. 

[Augie]

24 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I realize that if we are going by stats, the Bills would be considered elite ( I’d define as like Olympics top 3 although just pulling that out of a$$ ). But we did play some really bad QBs and at least visually, I’d argue Rams, Cowgirls, Bucs, Chiefs, broncos, niners, raiders, may all of been better than than us. 

 

So, if you want to ignore statistics, we may have been at least the 8th best on your arbitrary “visual test”?  I can live with that, because it’s not based on much. I like what we have, and where we can go. 

 

BTW - MOST defenses played a LOT of bad QB’s, because there are a lot of bad QB’s out there. I’d argue that a dozen good ones is pushing it. 

 

 

 

.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Augie

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

7 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Over the course of the season (and especially since the divisional playoff game), I've seen lots of complaining about the defense.

Some of the most common claims:

• The Bills defense was a "paper tiger" who were really below average and didn't deserve to be the NFL's #1 unit in points/yards.
• The players are "soft" and cannot stop any decent teams.  Especially those with good QBs.
• We don't have any "elite" players, and we need to trade multiple #1 Picks to obtain one.  (In other words, we need to copy the Rams blueprint).

Then you have the people calling for us to fire Sean McDermott and/or Leslie Frazier.  The cries to cut Tremaine Edmunds and replace most of the D-Line.

 

Personally, I don't buy any of this.  We don't need to a complete overhaul.  We don't need to make a HUGE splash.

What the Defense truly lacks... is VERSATILITY.

 

This team has basically been running the SAME scheme for 5 seasons.

Four man pass rush.  Very little blitzing.  Zone coverage.  Strong tackling after the catch.  Bend-but-don't-break philosophy.

Brandon Beane has supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent to run the McDermott/Frazier scheme.  Everyone on the roster is a strong fit.  The players know the system well, and are EXCELLENT at running it.  They are VERY fundamentally strong.  In fact, I think it could be argued that our defensive players peaked in many ways during 2021.

 

The problem is... the McDermott/Frazier scheme is NOT the best gameplan for stopping EVERY SINGLE team.  Which is why we have a tendency to absolutely dominate some opponents, and then struggle badly against others.  

• Our front 7 is generally undersized (partially by design).  Which means we often struggle against physical O-Lines and strong running teams.
• Some QBs are patient and can pick zone coverage apart.  Especially when they are expecting to see it all-day.

I also believe the main reason our defense has good "pressure stats" each year, but lack actual sacks - is because every QB/Offensive Coordinator plans short and quick passes against us.  A split second of hesitation (if they weren't sure what the Bills were coming with) would almost certainly result in more QB sacks. 

 

One of the reasons Bill Belichick has fielded a great Defense consistently (even without elite star power), is his ability to adapt and change depending on opponent.  Our current roster simply does not have the versatility to make those kind of changes week-to-week.  McDermott can focus on fundamentals, gap-control, staying mentally tough, etc.  But it's just a simple fact that Buffalo's defense does not match up well against some opponents (Indianapolis was probably the best example of this). 

 

To conquer the NFL playoffs and win the Super Bowl, we can't have games like Kansas City.

In my opinion, adding some versatility should be Beane's primary focus this offseason:

• We need to have a talented space-eater (0 or 1-Tech Nose Tackle) who can occupy blockers when we face run-first teams
• We need 1-2 cornerbacks who can switch between man/zone coverage as-needed

 

Bottom line.  There is no need to make drastic changes.  Just get the pieces needed to switch things up when needed.

 

 

7 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Over the course of the season (and especially since the divisional playoff game), I've seen lots of complaining about the defense.

Some of the most common claims:

• The Bills defense was a "paper tiger" who were really below average and didn't deserve to be the NFL's #1 unit in points/yards.
• The players are "soft" and cannot stop any decent teams.  Especially those with good QBs.
• We don't have any "elite" players, and we need to trade multiple #1 Picks to obtain one.  (In other words, we need to copy the Rams blueprint).

Then you have the people calling for us to fire Sean McDermott and/or Leslie Frazier.  The cries to cut Tremaine Edmunds and replace most of the D-Line.

 

Personally, I don't buy any of this.  We don't need to a complete overhaul.  We don't need to make a HUGE splash.

What the Defense truly lacks... is VERSATILITY.

 

This team has basically been running the SAME scheme for 5 seasons.

Four man pass rush.  Very little blitzing.  Zone coverage.  Strong tackling after the catch.  Bend-but-don't-break philosophy.

Brandon Beane has supplied the coaching staff with plenty of talent to run the McDermott/Frazier scheme.  Everyone on the roster is a strong fit.  The players know the system well, and are EXCELLENT at running it.  They are VERY fundamentally strong.  In fact, I think it could be argued that our defensive players peaked in many ways during 2021.

 

The problem is... the McDermott/Frazier scheme is NOT the best gameplan for stopping EVERY SINGLE team.  Which is why we have a tendency to absolutely dominate some opponents, and then struggle badly against others.  

• Our front 7 is generally undersized (partially by design).  Which means we often struggle against physical O-Lines and strong running teams.
• Some QBs are patient and can pick zone coverage apart.  Especially when they are expecting to see it all-day.

I also believe the main reason our defense has good "pressure stats" each year, but lack actual sacks - is because every QB/Offensive Coordinator plans short and quick passes against us.  A split second of hesitation (if they weren't sure what the Bills were coming with) would almost certainly result in more QB sacks. 

 

One of the reasons Bill Belichick has fielded a great Defense consistently (even without elite star power), is his ability to adapt and change depending on opponent.  Our current roster simply does not have the versatility to make those kind of changes week-to-week.  McDermott can focus on fundamentals, gap-control, staying mentally tough, etc.  But it's just a simple fact that Buffalo's defense does not match up well against some opponents (Indianapolis was probably the best example of this). 

 

To conquer the NFL playoffs and win the Super Bowl, we can't have games like Kansas City.

In my opinion, adding some versatility should be Beane's primary focus this offseason:

• We need to have a talented space-eater (0 or 1-Tech Nose Tackle) who can occupy blockers when we face run-first teams
• We need 1-2 cornerbacks who can switch between man/zone coverage as-needed

 

Bottom line.  There is no need to make drastic changes.  Just get the pieces needed to switch things up when needed.

 

 

I don't think we need a complete overhaul, I don't even take those people serious that say fire Sean McDermott but leslie Frazier on the other hand, the guy lacks the killer mentality and played completely scared on the biggest stage with the brightest lights and instead of going for Mahomes' jugular he opted for the safe route, you never win games by playing scared and not only that but too many times this guy never adjusts no matter if his defense is getting lit up or not he refuses to sway from his game planning. I agree about the space eating NT and 1-2 CB's but we also need a veteran pass rusher not named Hughes or Addison, someone who can come off the edge and get after the QB.... I really like Emmanuel Ogbah and don't get the hate on this kid, he had 45 tackles, 9 sacks, 1 FF, 1 FR in 2021 and almost identical stats the previous year on a bad Dolphins team, our top pass rusher was Mario Addison with 7, I don't think we'll be able to even come close to affording Von Miller/Clowney or Chandler Jones but Ogbah imo is a guy we should definitely be looking at.

[Matt_In_NH]

Don't defend a hail mary and sidelines with 13 seconds left when the opponent just wants a FG attempt and they have timeouts.  Seriously, if they had handled that situation differently we could be discussing a repeat.  You can always improve but McDermott is not some idiot who uses the same gamplan every game like this appears to say.

 

You reference the Pats as being someone that adapts and is versatile.  How did that defense adapt in the wild card playoff game?  The expectation of dominating every opponent is not something that is achievable in today's game.   Not even the great Patriots can or have done that.

[filthymcnasty08]

Some say a good 2 minute defense is key,

 

I say a good 13 second defense can be the difference maker in a season.

 

Yes, it still hurts.

[Robert Paulson]

14 hours ago, whorlnut said:

This is exactly what I’m saying. We aren’t stopping offenses like the chiefs. No one is. If they don’t play well, it’s because they are having an off night. What are we gonna do if we pass on a guy like Jameson Williams or Treylon Burks and the chiefs take them?  Then you are asking your first round corner to cover guys like Hill, Hardman, top rookie. All you end up doing is keep chasing your tail. 

Yes. Exactly. We have the personnel on defense. The coaches let us down. 

Kick short.

 

Hold everyone on first down.

 

Time runs out the next play.

 

We are superbowl Champs and we are doing a hard retool of the lineup this year for another run in 2023-2027

 

Now we are still chasing our first and will keep high priced aging vets another year to try and get it .

 

It still pisses me off

[Utah John]

14 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bengals switched it up dropped 8, played single high. Took away Mahomes quick throws and his ability to make plays out of the pocket. 

And in this copycat league, you can be sure the Bills are looking at that performance and trying to figure out how to make that approach work with the Bills' personnel.  Of course KC knows everyone will be doing exactly that, and will be working to stay a step ahead.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I thought it was pretty obvious, but I’m happy to try to make it more clear. My first question was “what is your point?” He wanted to complain, just to complain, it appears. I think he knows it’s stupid to come out and say we should replace our coaches based upon how the last game ended. That feels like childish ranting. I don’t want to speak for him, but without an answer, I just have to guess. 

 

If you think McD “gets a pass” but you wouldn’t rule anything out if he goes one and done in the playoffs next year, I respectfully suggest you are also out of touch with reality. We have one of the most highly regarded front offices and coaching staffs in the league. Yep, things went sideways at the end, but adults who see the big picture will be making the decisions. 

 

Look at what you assumed in bold. You ASSUMED the playoffs! Something we missed out on for almost two decades!

 

Nobody is perfect, and we should all strive to learn and get better every year at everything we do. McD has earned my respect, and we are fortunate to have him. 

We assume the playoffs because of Allen not McDermott

[BFLO]

Our defensive scheme has a really high floor, but a really low ceiling, and it works without any game breaking talent. It's why we crush bad to mediocre offenses and then can get crushed by some good offenses that adjust to our scheme, who usually have game breaking talents on offense. We play a very vanilla scheme and basically never throw in any exotic looks or blitzes or adjustments.

 

And when our scheme breaks, it breaks badly. I think there was a stat that we allowed something like the fewest 10+ yard runs against, but the most 20+ yard runs. 

 

 

 

 

 

[nedboy7]

Some of you deserve another 17 years of ineptitude.  It doesn’t make a difference to you.  

[Augie]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

You said the guy at fault is gone… but that’s simply not true…. Like not even close to being accurate.

 

I said the ST Coordinator is gone, and you STILL haven’t answered my questions. 

 

To be fair, it all ultimately falls on the HC, and he’s accepted that. Now, what are you going to do about it? 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Some of you deserve another 17 years of ineptitude.  It doesn’t make a difference to you.  

I just want one before I die.  Just one and rest is all gravy. I think we had one of our best shots ever minus the Norwood kick to finally do it ( yes realize getting past Cincy and rams not a given) but horrible coaching and overrated D ended it.  Hopefully Groot and Basham have breakout years next year as I think that piece and having a healthy Tre could go a long ways next year. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

this guy

[Mango]

19 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I wish the Bills threw in some 3 man rushes vs KC. I don't think man is the answer vs KC. We're not going to pay for the type of man CBs needed, and even those guys are getting beat by Hill.

 

The Bills coaches just have to have a better plan and adjust better to Mahomes making plays out of the pocket.

 

No data to actually back this up, but I don't think we are a very good man defense. But I also don't think man is the answer, but it is part of it. We just don't have a lot of "thumpers" anywhere on the field. I think man defenses generally play more physical. So I get where the thought was going. 

Our LB's style are far too reliant on our DL. And our DL belongs in the hall of "meh". We could solve the defense by shifting philosophies in different position groups. But ultimately I don't see us changing our coverage style. 

[billsfan89]

To me the defense lacks a truly dynamic pass rusher and a run stuffer. I look at the secondary and with Tre in there I think they are very good esp if they retain Levi who has been a solid and consistent cog. They have one of the best most dynamic safety tandems in the league, Tre a true number one corner, one of the most underrated slot corners in the league in T.Johnson, Levi a solid CB2, and Dane Jackson really nice depth. I would like to see them sure up the depth but I feel that can be addressed in round 3-5 as opposed to a high end pick. 

 

The LB core is also good. Milano is a true stud and while I know Edumonds gets a lot of hate around here fairly or unfairly I do think he is a solid MLB who fits the mold of the defense. Klein is also solid depth there and can fill in for either. The D-line on the other hand is good but not dynamic. The Bills generated 42 sacks tied for 11th in the league with the Bengals. That's pretty effective but not exactly elite either as the Bills did shoot up the rankings thanks to 9 sacks against the hapless Jets had they only had 2-3 sacks (a respectable number) against the Jets they would have been around 18-19 in the league not tragic but fairly average. 

 

Ed Oliver is very good but not a "dynamic" player just yet and the rest of the defensive line is mostly a mishmash of average to above average players. I think the "dynamic" player is going to have to come from within. I don't see (and wouldn't prefer) the Bills to go after a big time pass rusher in free agency as I want the O-line addressed and Levi/H.Phillips resigned and signing that type of pass rusher will impact the ability to do both. 

 

Overall the D-line can get a run stuffer which will help along with resigning Phillips. But they need a dynamic edge rusher and for that they have to count on the development of Groot, AJ and Boogie. 

[Augie]

45 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You said the guy at fault is gone… meaning the ST coordinator… blaming the ST coordinator for the last 13 seconds is ridiculous. 
 

What am I going to do about what? He doesn’t deserve to be fired. That would be stupid. He totally ***** up. Deflecting blame to “execution” was pretty ***** weak on his part… but JMO.

 

I actually agree with you. He made a point of being vague and not pinning blame on others. He did **** up, but all we can do is move forward. Live and learn. It should have been less than 13 seconds, and they shouldn’t have played it the way they did. I’m also upset, but people who act like they should be fired are just being childish, IMO. Big picture, folks. Look at the big picture. 

[ChasBB]

I know the idea behind undersized D-linemen is to have quickness, but would still love to have at least one Pat Williams type of player on the roster to stuff runs up the middle.

[John from Riverside]

Still think a legit pass rush would go a long way......

[In Summary]

The defense is missing a strong 1-tech that can be counted on to show up every week and free up Ed and cover for Tremain's unique skill set.  That said, Bills will have to get CB settled before anything. 

[Real McClappy]

19 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

That is not how all defenses operate.

 

Some defenses (such as the one Rex Ryan had before McDermott) operate on aggression, and trying to force mistakes.

His philosophy was the complete opposite.  Lots of blitzing and chaos.  Leaving cornerbacks on an island in man coverage.  Etc.

 

 

How well did Rex do with our D again? I remember a core of players that were a top 5D and Rex making them one of the worst in the league. 

 

Careful what you wish for OP. 

[mjt328]

49 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

How well did Rex do with our D again? I remember a core of players that were a top 5D and Rex making them one of the worst in the league. 

 

Careful what you wish for OP. 

 

Never said I wished for Rex Ryan, or anything close to him.  Not sure where you got that.

In fact, I said that I don't believe we need an overhaul or drastic change on defense.  

 

McDermott/Frazier's scheme is probably fine against 75-80% of the opponents we face.

 

But when we face a powerful/run-first team (Indianapolis, Tennessee, New England), we may need the ability to go bigger in the Front 7. 

When we face a QB that picks-apart zone coverage, we may need the ability to mix in some man-coverage to keep them guessing.

There also may be times that we need to adjust and call for more blitzing.

 

 

[mjt328]

10 hours ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

Don't defend a hail mary and sidelines with 13 seconds left when the opponent just wants a FG attempt and they have timeouts.  Seriously, if they had handled that situation differently we could be discussing a repeat.  You can always improve but McDermott is not some idiot who uses the same gamplan every game like this appears to say.

 

I agree.  You can't judge a defense on a single game.  Certainly not a single series (no matter how poorly it was done).

 

You are right.  McDermott doesn't use the same gameplan every game, per se.

But he does have HIS system, and doesn't deviate too far from it week-to-week.

 

 

10 hours ago, 13 Second Prevent Defense said:

You reference the Pats as being someone that adapts and is versatile.  How did that defense adapt in the wild card playoff game?  The expectation of dominating every opponent is not something that is achievable in today's game.   Not even the great Patriots can or have done that.

 

Josh Allen is the achilles-heel for a Belichick defense.  Pure and simple.

The Pats are built on game planning and preparation.  After that game (and the one a few weeks before), film showed that numerous times Belichick called the perfect play... only for Allen to break away from the pocket anyway and make a huge play.  

 

You can't expect to dominate every opponent.  But more can be done to match-up better against a wider variety of opponents.

 

[Norcalbillsfan]

I agree that we could definitely be more versatile on defense. But I don't think we need to blow up the defense. I do think the biggest reason we didn't win a superbowl was coaching decisions. And not just the obvious kick off and defensive scheme last 15 seconds. 

[LABILLBACKER]

21 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

The issues on defense are the same as they were last off-season

 

1. Coaching - cost us the SuperBowl

2. Middle linebacker that makes no plays and who is supposed to be good in pass coverage and gives up a 100+ QB rating

3. DEs that seemingly get pressure but don't create negative plays

4. Soft against physical teams - see Indy and Pats game #1

 

There were two-three bright spots.  Oliver was better. Phillips started terribly and then finished the season playing his best football.  Milano stayed healthy.

 

Beane tried to make the defense better. It just didn't work.  Investments made last year may pay off next year.  Rousseau flashed at times.  Basham was earning more time at the end of the season.  Epenesa looks like a bust that might be a surprise roster cut. But who knows.  Jackson held his own and at worst should provide some depth.  

 

Draft CB and true edge speed rusher.  

 

Make a decision on Edmunds.  Either trade him now or let him play his last year out and walk away from him next year.  

Completely agree. We have a very good defense,  just not elite. I'm not going to get into the #1 ranking debate. I forsee Levi leaving and with Tre's return delayed,  this will probably force our 1st pick to be CB.  If we can get a 2nd or 3rd for Edmunds then I'd do that Immediately. We're stuck with Star but I could see us drafting a Travis Jones in the 3rd?  He could compliment Harry. I see all 3 of Addison, Hughes & Butler gone. I wish we could afford Chandler Jones but that's probably not feasible. Go more snaps with the young guys and see what you have?

[folz]

Just wanted to take a quick look at some rushing stats...since throughout the year, the biggest knock against the defense seemed to be their play vs. the run. And this seemed to be a good spot for it.

 

Overall, the Bills ended the season 12th in rushing yards against, allowing 25 yards/game more than league-leading Baltimore.

 

They averaged 112.5 rushing yards allowed per game, good for 15th place, just above the league average.

 

But...

 

The Bills Defense held 11 (of 19) opponents under 96 yards total team rushing (they held 9 teams under 80 yards total team rushing). Team rushing totals for those 11 games' opponents were: 75, 71, 78, 48, 68, 79, 70, 44, 96, 48, 89. Those are some pretty dominating numbers. And the backs in those games weren't a murderers row by any means, but they weren't horrible (as can be said for some of the QB competition this year): Najee Harris, Antonio Gibson, Myles Gaskin, Michael Carter, Mark Ingram, Chubba Hubbard, Carlos Hyde, Mike Davis, Cordarrell Patterson, Damien Harris.

 

In 14 of 19 games, the leading rusher (RB or QB) for the opposing team was held below 72 yards. In 14 games, the opponent's leading RB was held under 45 yards rushing. That seems a bit surprising, huh?

 

Only 4 RBs had 100+ yards rushing in a game. Two playing at a HOF level this year. Taylor 185, Henry 143, Fournette 113, and Damien Harris (111, 103, 30 in 3 games). There were 3 really bad miscues in the run game this year: D. Henry's 76 yard TD, Harris' 64 yard TD in the wind game, and Harris' 31 yard scamper in Pats game II. If those three plays had been executed properly, then only Fournette and Taylor would have had 100 yard games this year.

 

So the Bills completely shut down the run in 11 games, had 2 really horrible games (Pats I/Colts), had maybe 4 other bad games, and 2 ok games.

 

Interesting to note that three of the eight (ok to horrible) games, the QB was the leading rusher for the opponent (Mahomes twice, Cam Newton once). That may be something McDermott definitely needs to look into. If you take away QB runs, then the Bills really only had 3-4 bad games against running backs on the season. And two of those were against guys playing at an all-world level this year (Henry and Taylor).

 

This isn't to say we don't need to improve against the run, but I'm not sure our run defense is quite as bad as it looked at times this year.

 

Again, if the three major miscues above were just mistakes/execution, not scheme or personnel, then I would say the places to look for improvement is the Colts game (what went wrong there, if it wasn't just Taylor being amazing) and how to stop a mobile QB (not give up cheap yards to QB scrambles). Mahomes had 130 yards rushing in two meetings against us this year. If we are going to get past them, this needs to be figured out. As to the miscues, if I'm not mistaken, they were all on cut-back runs. Something else to look into (is that on Tremaine or the safeties over pursuing? I'd have to go back and look at the film. Can't remember off the top of my head).

 

Anyhow, just food for thought/discussion about where the improvement is needed (as far as the rush defense is concerned).

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by folz

[Real McClappy]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:42 PM, mjt328 said:

 

That is not how all defenses operate.

 

Some defenses (such as the one Rex Ryan had before McDermott) operate on aggression, and trying to force mistakes.

His philosophy was the complete opposite.  Lots of blitzing and chaos.  Leaving cornerbacks on an island in man coverage.  Etc.

 

 

 

On 2/25/2022 at 5:36 PM, mjt328 said:

 

Never said I wished for Rex Ryan, or anything close to him.  Not sure where you got that.

In fact, I said that I don't believe we need an overhaul or drastic change on defense.  

 

McDermott/Frazier's scheme is probably fine against 75-80% of the opponents we face.

 

But when we face a powerful/run-first team (Indianapolis, Tennessee, New England), we may need the ability to go bigger in the Front 7. 

When we face a QB that picks-apart zone coverage, we may need the ability to mix in some man-coverage to keep them guessing.

There also may be times that we need to adjust and call for more blitzing.

 

 

 

I specifically quoted your Hot Rex Ryan take and said to be careful what you wish for. His entire era here is Buffalo was a disaster on D. 

 

Overall, I do agree the Bills D needs to be more aggressive when playing with a lead.