Ticketmaster sending sellers 1099s

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Guess I'd compare it to you buy a brand new car for $30k, 8 years later you sell it to Joe's used cars dealership for $4k.  That $4k is income and you can't offset it against the $30k you paid for the car to begin with.  Joe likely reported the $4k he paid you as a business expense so the IRS has a paper trail back to you then too.  If you trade it at Joe's for another car, then no income to you

 

Likely a similar situation with Ticketmaster

[RiotAct]

3 minutes ago, 1stgm1993 said:

See my post. 

 

 

haha, what a disaster that would be (getting two 1099s for the same exact set of transactions).   Luckily, eBay got off the Paypal teat last spring and they handle all their own payouts now.

[SoMAn]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

Well they gotta pay for all those stimulus's somehow 😅. They're actually going after venmo too. Starting this year, venmo transactions have to be reported to the irs. You can't expect the government to let money move without them getting a piece 🙄

Yeah, even though income tax has already been collected from the earnings of the original buyer. 
After buying a ticket, he could then become a seller, trading the ticket for the same cost. In effect, he’d have no more money than he started with, no ticket, but would somehow pay tax twice on the same money.  
Hypothetically , a ticket could be sold and re-sold 10 times (or more) and Uncle Sam would have his hand out for a piece of each transaction. It’s like buying a car and there’s supposed to be sales tax for every transfer of ownership when funds are involved. 
I’ve never understood how this is fair. 
The secondary market is getting less attractive and riskier. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SoMAn

[CoudyBills]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

Well they gotta pay for all those stimulus's somehow 😅. They're actually going after venmo too. Starting this year, venmo transactions have to be reported to the irs. You can't expect the government to let money move without them getting a piece 🙄

I believe it is all cash apps now isn't it?  I wonder when we will be able to itemize all the ***** around our houses since we now have to claim the old desk we sell on Facebook marketplace using venmo.  Everybody thought a cashless society was a good idea hahahaa.  To make this football related, Go Bills.  

[quinnearlysghost88]

2 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

True. If you don't profit, you don't owe income tax on it. Pretty simple. Making the rich pay their fair share or eliminating their lucrative loop holes is another valid story.

 

But you want roads? You want the country to be safe (as possible) from attack? Do you fly? The list is endless. We all contribute.

Yeah I love those road repairs and infrastructure that they pass on to the state. That never happen. And we instead pass outrageous prices for military contractors. Where can I get one of these $1,000 wrenches? 

[Brennan Huff]

2 hours ago, Spiderweb said:

 

But you want roads? You want the country to be safe (as possible) from attack? Do you fly? The list is endless. We all contribute.

[co_springs_billsfan]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

Income taxes are already way too complicated.

 

Just abolish then and do a national sales tax on anything over $100.

 

The fact that there is an entire industry around tax returns shows how ridiculous it is. 

 

The cynical part of me thinks they keep making taxes more and more complicated so that they have something over you if needed. 

 

Think about it... The typical citizen has to be told that coffee is hot and not to eat Tide Pods. 

As a CPA I am very opposed to the idea of a national sales tax. Once we have it it will never go away, since it would be accompanied matching spending that could never be eliminated (without offending some voting base). We're already taxed ad nauseum for everything (income tax, social security tax, medicare tax, state/local sales tax, real estate property tax, license plate tags are taxed, fuel tax, businesses are taxed on the annual value of their personal property, gift tax, estate tax.  Let's not add any new taxes like national sales tax or VAT or wealth tax to what we're already dealing with. 😉

[Motorin']

33 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Guess I'd compare it to you buy a brand new car for $30k, 8 years later you sell it to Joe's used cars dealership for $4k.  That $4k is income and you can't offset it against the $30k you paid for the car to begin with.  Joe likely reported the $4k he paid you as a business expense so the IRS has a paper trail back to you then too.  If you trade it at Joe's for another car, then no income to you

 

Likely a similar situation with Ticketmaster

 

Buy and selling tickets aren't the same thing. No one is selling 2008 game tickets. If you buy them and sell them and make a profit you should owe taxes. If you buy them and sell them and lose money there's no income to pay taxes on.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Buy and selling tickets aren't the same thing. No one is selling 2008 game tickets. If you buy them and sell them and make a profit you should owe taxes. If you buy them and sell them and lose money there's no income to pay taxes on.

 

Good point, but don't think that's the way the IRS sees it.

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Good point, but don't think that's the way the IRS sees it.

 

And why do you think that? There's no filing requirement to run a small business. It's a business if you say it is. 

[Motorin']

35 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Yeah this is new for the 21 tax year. You have to report any profit as Income. Ticketmaster doesn’t verify SSNs. 

 

Don't do that. 

[RiotAct]

25 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

I believe it is all cash apps now isn't it?  I wonder when we will be able to itemize all the ***** around our houses since we now have to claim the old desk we sell on Facebook marketplace using venmo.  Everybody thought a cashless society was a good idea hahahaa.  To make this football related, Go Bills.  

Go Bills!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

And why do you think that? There's no filing requirement to run a small business. It's a business if you say it is. 

Sure the IRS could care less if you call it a business or not.  But they do care about money, whether it's made from a business or personal income.

 

All the IRS cares about is following the money and if they see money flowing to you that's income and you need to pay taxes on it.   That's all they care about and in today's digital world, it's much easier to follow the money. 

 

Did you get a check from Aunt Suzy for Christmas, that's income.  If you have a garage sale, that's income that you're supposed to report, but fortunately for many, the IRS isn't able to easily find many things.  But now you're dealing with a large company in Ticketmaster and they need to show where the money is flowing to.

[BarleyNY]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

 

This country literally became independent because of taxes.

False.  That’s an intentionally bastardized version of it that I’m sick of seeing.  The truth is that the reason was “Taxation Without Representation”.  It wasn’t the taxes, it was being taxed without having representation in the government. 

[What a Tuel]

2 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

This is BS. I’ve consistently lost money every year I’ve been a season ticket holder. At one point I had 10 tickets during the drought. I’ve lost thousands and now the IRS wants a piece? BS

 

Thats nonsense. If you did not profit off the tickets, there is no legal way for the government to argue you should pay taxes on it. AKA bought them for $140, and sold them for $100, you would not owe tax on $100 in income.

[BillnutinHouston]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

I think the bad thing about this is them withholding your payout unless you provide them your social security number.

 

If they need your social to send the 1099, they need to require that up front before any transaction or before you use their service.

 

Yea but, that would be bad for "closing the deal".

[ArtVandalay]

3 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

False.  That’s an intentionally bastardized version of it that I’m sick of seeing.  The truth is that the reason was “Taxation Without Representation”.  It wasn’t the taxes, it was being taxed without having representation in the government. 

Lol Jesus you are incredibly particular. What without representation? Taxes. Yes, taxation was a key issue in the USA establishing independence lol.

[Motorin']

10 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Sure the IRS could care less if you call it a business or not.  But they do care about money, whether it's made from a business or personal income.

 

All the IRS cares about is following the money and if they see money flowing to you that's income and you need to pay taxes on it.   That's all they care about and in today's digital world, it's much easier to follow the money. 

 

Did you get a check from Aunt Suzy for Christmas, that's income.  If you have a garage sale, that's income that you're supposed to report, but fortunately for many, the IRS isn't able to easily find many things.  But now you're dealing with a large company in Ticketmaster and they need to show where the money is flowing to.

 

Do you run your own business? Have you ever filed a Schedule C?

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

Thing is, income ISN'T supposed to be taxed. 16th ammendment. However that has just conveniently been over looked for eternity now. 

 

Edit - I should clarify a little. Only since early 1900s did the government tax income. Technically though, income was never meant to be taxed 

16th amendment has been around for over 100 years, which allowed for Congress to tax. Not something to be argued after all these years.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

It's only complicated for the wealthy. The majority of taxpayers can fill out their tax return in about an hour at most.

 

All income is taxable, always has been. If people really had no idea, that's on them. I'm no fan of paying taxes like anyone else, but I try to know the rules. It's not that hard to keep up.

 

Venmo in itself isn't taxable, but if you earn income using Venmo, that income is taxable. Venmo will need to report, just like any other business does.

 

 

You don’t necessarily need to be wealthy to make it complicated. I was self employed for many years, and the wife was glad to see me retire because she does the taxes before it goes to the CPA. Being self employed definitely adds significantly to the degree of difficulty. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, K-No said:

I had to sell my season tickets to the Patriots playoff game. I later received an email from Ticketmaster saying they cannot send me the money from the sale until I send them my SSN etc. so they can send me a 1099K and notify the IRS of the proceeds. 

Does it matter that I made $0 profit from the sale?

So, do I need to file separate forms come tax time? Amount paid vs amount sold for, deduct fees etc.?

As far as regular season games, tickets don't have a face value anymore, just one price for the season. I don't even know the price of an individual ticket.

 

I don't blame Ticketmaster for this one, I'm guessing it's the government, but it's one more reason to not use Ticketmaster unless you need to. They charge buyers over 20% and hold the seller's money for about a month. Yer killin me Smalls.

 

You need to report what you paid for the tickets so you can lower your tax liability. The threshold for a 1099 used to be $20,000! Now it's only $600. And you can't escape that by using StubHub or Vivid Seats. They are all issuing 1099's now.

[klos63]

22 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Sure the IRS could care less if you call it a business or not.  But they do care about money, whether it's made from a business or personal income.

 

All the IRS cares about is following the money and if they see money flowing to you that's income and you need to pay taxes on it.   That's all they care about and in today's digital world, it's much easier to follow the money. 

 

Did you get a check from Aunt Suzy for Christmas, that's income.  If you have a garage sale, that's income that you're supposed to report, but fortunately for many, the IRS isn't able to easily find many things.  But now you're dealing with a large company in Ticketmaster and they need to show where the money is flowing to.

A check from Aunt Suzy for Christmas is definitely not income.  Come on.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

Yes I got the same email and not too keen about giving them my social security number.

 

I decided it's not worth it.  I'm just letting them keep my money.

 

That's not how it works. You are getting income reported to the IRS. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

[klos63]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

You don’t necessarily need to be wealthy to make it complicated. I was self employed for many years, and the wife was glad to see me retire because she does the taxes before it goes to the CPA. Being self employed definitely adds significantly to the degree of difficulty. 

Fair point, I was self employed as well. Taxes were a pain. 

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

You need to report what you paid for the tickets so you can lower your tax liability. The threshold for a 1099 used to be $20,000! Now it's only $600. And you can't escape that by using StubHub or Vivid Seats. They are all issuing 1099's now.

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Ed is saying what you paid doesn't matter it's all taxable income and you can't subtract what you paid. 

 

I disagree. 

[PromoTheRobot]

8 minutes ago, klos63 said:

16th amendment has been around for over 100 years, which allowed for Congress to tax. Not something to be argued after all these years.

 

But I saw a YouTube video

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

Well they gotta pay for all those stimulus's somehow 😅. They're actually going after venmo too. Starting this year, venmo transactions have to be reported to the irs. You can't expect the government to let money move without them getting a piece 🙄

So the government is pushing for more cash transactions. Got it. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Ed is saying what you paid doesn't matter it's all taxable income and you can't subtract what you paid. 

 

I disagree. 

 

My accountant said I can deduct the cost of the tickets. That's what I'm doing. Income is gross sales minus expenses. 

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

My accountant said I can deduct the cost of the tickets. That's what I'm doing. Income is gross sales minus expenses. 

 

I guess the question is whether to do it on a Schedule C or D?

 

My primary purpose of buying season tickets were to resell (most) of them. So I'm going to file C. 

[Augie]

6 minutes ago, klos63 said:

A check from Aunt Suzy for Christmas is definitely not income.  Come on.

 

Then you get into documenting for gift tax limits. We helped our son and DIL buy their first house in a significant way. One more thing to beware of, despite that limit having gone up substantially over the years. 

 

It’s more complicated than is should be in many ways, for sure.

 

The Average Joe can knock it out on Turbo Tax or some other program in no time, unless……..

[klos63]

6 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Then you get into documenting for gift tax limits. We helped our son and DIL buy their first house in a significant way. One more thing to beware of, despite that limit having gone up substantially over the years. 

 

It’s more complicated than is should be in many ways, for sure.

 

The Average Joe can knock it out on Turbo Tax or some other program in no time, unless……..

Gift tax limit is $16K, Aunt Suzy isn't that generous. 

[Augie]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

Gift tax limit is $16K, Aunt Suzy isn't that generous. 

 

She SHOULD be! She can’t take it with her!  😋

 

I wish it was more simple, but quite honestly I don’t personally deal with it, so I can’t complain too much. 

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

This is BS. I’ve consistently lost money every year I’ve been a season ticket holder. At one point I had 10 tickets during the drought. I’ve lost thousands and now the IRS wants a piece? BS

 

Could you not claim that as a loss and get a deduction then?  Might not be worth the time to fill out the extra forms or whatever in the past but if you have to do it anyways...

[Motorin']

14 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Could you not claim that as a loss and get a deduction then?  Might not be worth the time to fill out the extra forms or whatever in the past but if you have to do it anyways...

 

Probably wasn't worth the time in the past, especially if you're not familiar with filing deductions. 

 

But now that they're issuing 1099's it is worth the time, imo. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Motorin'

[BillnutinHouston]

37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's not how it works. You are getting income reported to the IRS. Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

 

No.

 

Filling out their form is a condition of getting paid.  Therefore, if I don't fill out their form, I don't get paid, therefore I don't owe any taxes.  My point was, I didn't make enough to even bother.  Ticketmaster can keep my money.

 

 

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Sure the IRS could care less if you call it a business or not.  But they do care about money, whether it's made from a business or personal income.

 

All the IRS cares about is following the money and if they see money flowing to you that's income and you need to pay taxes on it.   That's all they care about and in today's digital world, it's much easier to follow the money. 

 

Did you get a check from Aunt Suzy for Christmas, that's income.  If you have a garage sale, that's income that you're supposed to report, but fortunately for many, the IRS isn't able to easily find many things.  But now you're dealing with a large company in Ticketmaster and they need to show where the money is flowing to.

Also, for any looters or thiefs out there, don't forget you are required by the IRS to report the fair market value of your stolen goods on your income taxes🤣

[PromoTheRobot]

9 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

No.

 

Filling out their form is a condition of getting paid.  Therefore, if I don't fill out their form, I don't get paid, therefore I don't owe any taxes.  My point was, I didn't make enough to even bother.  Ticketmaster can keep my money.

 

 

They only send a 1099 if you grossed over $600. If you didn't hit that then nothing is reported.

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

3 hours ago, vanhalen26 said:

Do I like it?  No.  pain in the ass as I have seasons to three different teams and don’t attend every game.  
 

Is it overreach?  Not in my opinion - most aren’t making significant $ over this, but some use as a nice tax free cash grab and should pay their share.  

 

I live in Nassau County out here on Long Island. The one term County Executive who ran on the “pay your fair share” pulpit got run out of office this past election cycle. A few hundred dollars on the sale of tickets for sports events HAS ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT ON THE ECONOMY. There is no share here that is fair. The money that was used to purchase these tickets (on both ends of the sale) is already post tax. So a person using their post tax income to purchase goods and services, being taxed again is most certainly the federal government overreaching their filthy hands, into the pockets of its citizens. 
 

As a person who can afford seasons to more than one team, you should be worried more than anyone that they’ll come for your share too. 

[BillnutinHouston]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

They only send a 1099 if you grossed over $600. If you didn't hit that then nothing is reported.

 

Correct.  The problem is this statement from the email they sent - direct quote:

 

"Before we can pay you, we will need to collect your taxpayer information in accordance with applicable laws."

 

So if I don't send my SSN, I don't get paid.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But I saw a YouTube video

 

That is taxable too.