Bills fans complaining about coaching...

[folz]

53 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Not sure this was such a great post you had to spin it off into it's own thread. But I'll reply with the same thing I did in the other thread...

 

Consistency.

 

Just because the total points scored is high, it doesnt say anything about the pace or deviation of how those points were put up.

 

This offense seems so feast or famine. We are either rolling, or putting on a clown show, no in between. A big part of that is bad game plans and play-calling and not allowing our O to play to its strengths or develop a rhythm.

 

Yay! We hung 40 and 43 on the likes of Houston and Washington, but couldnt muster 1 FG per Quarter to beat the Jags.

 

Great season, not taking that away. But there is always room for improvement. Especially when talking about the difference between a Playoff team and a Super Bowl Championship team.

 

No question, the offense has had some rough patches, but I'm having a hard time understanding an overall lack of consistency, or the other poster who talked about scoring in bunches. Here are the points scored by the Bills offense this season (from week 1 to week 17):

 

16

35

43

40

38

31

26

6

45

15

31

10

27

31

33

29

27

 

The "10" was the New England game in the wind, so you can kind of throw that one out because no team (not even a Brady-, Manning-, Montana-led team would have scored a lot that night). So, that leaves only 3 games where the Bills scored fewer than 26 points (Pitt, Jax, Indy). Only Dallas and Tampa Bay averaged more points per game than we did. Five years ago, if we were told our offense would be averaging 28.4 points per game, for third best in the league, we would all be elated.

 

For some reason, despite going through the drought, it seems that fans' expectations have become way too high (almost unrealistic), expecting perfection every week (despite opponent, weather, etc.). It is strange to me how that happened so quickly. For instance, let's look at the other top 5 scoring teams this year. How many games did they score less than 26 points. Again for Buffalo, it is 3 (4 if you include the NE wind game):

 

Dallas had 6 games with less than 26 points (including games of just 9, 16, and 20 points)

Tampa Bay had 4 games under 26 points (including games of just 0, 19, and 19 points---yes, TB got shut out one game)

Kansas City had 7 games under 26 points (including games of just 3, 13, and 19 points)

The Chargers had 6 games under 26 points (including games of just 6, 13, and 17 points)

 

There are ebbs and flows to an NFL season, for every team, not just the Bills. 

 

And I have no problem discussing coaching and personnel decisions, etc. I myself feel that they mismanaged a number of players/positions this year (Devin, Gabe, Bease, McKenzie, Sanders) as far as playing time/snap counts, etc. What the so-called "homers," "kool-aid" drinkers, etc. (like myself) have a hard time understanding is that too many posters (not saying you Dr.Dawk) go to we suck, our coaches suck, fire this guy or that guy when this is where we dreamed of being just a short 5 years ago. Yes, there is always room for improvement, decisions that can be questioned...and obviously, the ultimate goal is the Super Bowl, not just the playoffs...but it seems some people can't actually enjoy where we are, where we came from, and to acknowledge that we are a very good team whose organization is set up to be good for a long time now. Reading some posts, you'd think we luckily snuck into the playoffs, have no shot at winning anything, and need to start revamping things already (coaches, players, etc.).

 

The NFL is known as a game of inches, the margins are razor-thin. For instance, all it would have taken to be the #1 seed was for Allen to not slip on that 4th and goal in Tenn. One play and we would have been the #1 seed. We are not that far from our goal, but listening to some fans, you would think it is still miles away.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

 

 

[Einstein]

4 hours ago, Ta111 said:

What does this mean? Should we score 7 points each quarter? The goal is to score more than your opponent. Who cares if it comes in bunches or not.

 

Because sometimes the bunches don’t come…

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Third in the AFC

Two consecutive AFC East titles

Number one defense in the league

four out of the last five times playoffs?

 

What the ***** are you talking about

 

Im talking about how they score in bunches.

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Because sometimes the bunches don’t come…

 

Im talking about how they score in bunches.

This just in sir.......ALL nfl teams score in bunches.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 hours ago, Dopey said:

According to Pro Football Reference, we've scored the 3rd most points of ANY team in the league!! 3rd guys, 3rd!

 

What the hell are any of you complaining about?!? What more do you want?!?

 

While I'm at it, we're #1 in points against and won back to back AFCE CHAMPS!

 

IMO,  any complainer(you know who you are) is a dumb@$$!; Again, JMO.

 

Phew, that felt good!

The Bills are dependent on Allen running around throwing miracle sideline, toe tapping, dive catches on the sidelines. 

 

We need more 4 and 5 wide sets with the Offensive Line playing better than earlier in the season. 

[Einstein]

18 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

This just in sir.......ALL nfl teams score in bunches.

 

I would have to disagree with that.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Fans are really judging the result and not the thought process which leads to us being unnecessarily critical on the coaching staff at times when things don’t work.  The nature of being an offensive coordinator is calling up plays that defensive coordinators let alone hundreds of casual fans don’t really expect.  

 

for example that josh Allen outside run on 4th and short to seal the last patriots game…imagine how bad that play looks if we don’t pick up the first down there.  

[YattaOkasan]

25 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I would have to disagree with that.

 

 

Can you show a consistent team that you’re thinking of? No one was complaining when KC would mess around the first half of a game and then score 21 in a quarter. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I would have to disagree with that.

 

 

Prove otherwise

[london_bills]

9 hours ago, Dopey said:

According to Pro Football Reference, we've scored the 3rd most points of ANY team in the league!! 3rd guys, 3rd!

 

What the hell are any of you complaining about?!? What more do you want?!?

 

While I'm at it, we're #1 in points against and won back to back AFCE CHAMPS!

 

IMO,  any complainer(you know who you are) is a dumb@$$!; Again, JMO.

 

Phew, that felt good!

Dopey, we are spoilt. No doubt. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

DaBoll is a mediocre OC, takes way to long for adjustments, and a wildly inconsistent play caller. 
 

The offense ranks what it ranks because Josh Allen.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Prove otherwise

 

You first

[HalftimeAdjustment]

 

 

Having said that, we went from scoring 501 points in 2020 (16 games) to scoring 483 points in 2021 (17 games). That's 31.3 ppg down to 28.4. Did 2020 spoil us? Maybe. We only dropped from 2nd to 3rd in scoring.

 

Yes, weather was a significant factor in a couple of games, especially against NE. However, the offense stalled against Jacksonville (6 points) and did not look good against Pittsburgh in Week 1 despite eventually scoring 16 points. Those were 2 very winnable games.

 

Our defense clearly improved, strength of opponents is a factor as is weather but we ranked #1 in yards and points, from 375 points against in 16 games to 289 points in 17 games (23.4 ppg down to 17 ppg). Anyone who didn't see progress in the defense this year, I really don't know what to say. 

 

Well, overall, it was a very good year for the offense and a great year for the defense. Still, we went from 13-3 in 2020 to 11-6 in 2021 and ended up the 3rd seed in the AFC, plus 4 teams in the NFC with better records - basically the 7th best record overall. The team has a Super Bowl-quality defense and an offense that is streaky with a very high ceiling ... expectations pre-season were that we were a top 3 team and would contend for the championship. If we win the Super Bowl any objections are irrelevant, but a few fans on this board are not the only observers who feel the team underperformed a bit up to this point (see the 538 analysis, for example). 

 

In any case, the regular season is behind us. All they have to do now is win 4 in a row - let's go!

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

You first

Einstein I believe you were the one to make the Assertation don’t you think you should be the one to prove your point and not ask other people to do it

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Bills fans are genius, let’s ditch Sean McDermott for Doug Marrone 2.0!!! 

[Joe Ferguson]

 

[Buffarukus]

12 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

no one is complaining.  But, if you want a complaint, we should be the 1 seed.  Lots of those points came against bad teams.  This isn't a fantasy league where points scored and points allowed win you something.  We should have beaten Tenn, and Tampa, but in both games the Bills vanished at key times.  Oh, also should have beaten Jax.  

 

we were one hold on a kick return from winning tenn, forget the last drive sneak. and one hold from a blind ref from beating tampa lol

 

id throw in Pittsburgh as a should of as well.

 

[Beast]

There is one person with at least three user names that I know of in this thread.

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Prove otherwise

He didn’t answer me either. I asked him for any example and pointed to KC as a great offense that classically scores in bunches. It’s a bad take on his part. 

[1ManRaid]

13 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

no one is complaining.  But, if you want a complaint, we should be the 1 seed.  Lots of those points came against bad teams.  This isn't a fantasy league where points scored and points allowed win you something.  We should have beaten Tenn, and Tampa, but in both games the Bills vanished at key times.  Oh, also should have beaten Jax.  

 

I wouldn't lean on that "bad teams" argument.  We averaged 28.4 ppg, and put up more than that against our top competition. 

 

Chiefs- 38 points

Titans- 31 points, despite return TD called back on phantom hold, and slippery turf costing us points/the game at the end.

Bucs- 27 points, but again lost points at the end on blown calls.  Would have blown them out if not for the refs locking down Diggs and Co all game.

Patriots- 33 (non wind storm game).

Colts- The one outlier, as we were too busy letting Taylor run all over us chewing up the clock to score points.

 

We only failed to score 26 points (bear in mind league average is about 24 I think) four times all season.  One was the always flukey week 1, one was the Colts, and one was a windstorm.  Our production has been remarkably consistent, even against good defenses/teams, on the road, or in bad weather.

[1ManRaid]

9 hours ago, folz said:

 

No question, the offense has had some rough patches, but I'm having a hard time understanding an overall lack of consistency, or the other poster who talked about scoring in bunches. Here are the points scored by the Bills offense this season (from week 1 to week 17):

 

16

35

43

40

38

31

26

6

45

15

31

10

27

31

33

29

27

 

The "10" was the New England game in the wind, so you can kind of throw that one out because no team (not even a Brady-, Manning-, Montana-led team would have scored a lot that night). So, that leaves only 3 games where the Bills scored fewer than 26 points (Pitt, Jax, Indy). Only Dallas and Tampa Bay averaged more points per game than we did. Five years ago, if we were told our offense would be averaging 28.4 points per game, for third best in the league, we would all be elated.

 

For some reason, despite going through the drought, it seems that fans' expectations have become way too high (almost unrealistic), expecting perfection every week (despite opponent, weather, etc.). It is strange to me how that happened so quickly. For instance, let's look at the other top 5 scoring teams this year. How many games did they score less than 26 points. Again for Buffalo, it is 3 (4 if you include the NE wind game):

 

Dallas had 6 games with less than 26 points (including games of just 9, 16, and 20 points)

Tampa Bay had 4 games under 26 points (including games of just 0, 19, and 19 points---yes, TB got shut out one game)

Kansas City had 7 games under 26 points (including games of just 3, 13, and 19 points)

The Chargers had 6 games under 26 points (including games of just 6, 13, and 17 points)

 

There are ebbs and flows to an NFL season, for every team, not just the Bills. 

 

And I have no problem discussing coaching and personnel decisions, etc. I myself feel that they mismanaged a number of players/positions this year (Devin, Gabe, Bease, McKenzie, Sanders) as far as playing time/snap counts, etc. What the so-called "homers," "kool-aid" drinkers, etc. (like myself) have a hard time understanding is that too many posters (not saying you Dr.Dawk) go to we suck, our coaches suck, fire this guy or that guy when this is where we dreamed of being just a short 5 years ago. Yes, there is always room for improvement, decisions that can be questioned...and obviously, the ultimate goal is the Super Bowl, not just the playoffs...but it seems some people can't actually enjoy where we are, where we came from, and to acknowledge that we are a very good team whose organization is set up to be good for a long time now. Reading some posts, you'd think we luckily snuck into the playoffs, have no shot at winning anything, and need to start revamping things already (coaches, players, etc.).

 

The NFL is known as a game of inches, the margins are razor-thin. For instance, all it would have taken to be the #1 seed was for Allen to not slip on that 4th and goal in Tenn. One play and we would have been the #1 seed. We are not that far from our goal, but listening to some fans, you would think it is still miles away.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

 

 

 

Blows my mind how people don't understand and appreciate that despite all the refball, we were still ONE PLAY from being the #1 seed.  But all you hear from doomers and trolls is how we only beat up on bad teams, are inconsistent, etc.  We scored 30+ in the majority of our games, and above the league average in 13 of them.

[ganesh]

18 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

They score in bunches.

 

Fans would rather it be a bit more… consistent.

Consistently wanting it ALL THE TIME !!!!!   Go Bills !

4 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Blows my mind how people don't understand and appreciate that despite all the refball, we were still ONE PLAY from being the #1 seed.  But all you hear from doomers and trolls is how we only beat up on bad teams, are inconsistent, etc.  We scored 30+ in the majority of our games, and above the league average in 13 of them.

Again, the Titans are the #1 seed because of that ONE play...the same play where they made the play and we didn't. 

[1ManRaid]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

Consistently wanting it ALL THE TIME !!!!!   Go Bills !

Again, the Titans are the #1 seed because of that ONE play...the same play where they made the play and we didn't. 

 

Actually which one play are you talking about?  There are several you can choose from that game, any of which you could argue weren't any Bills' actual fault.  A change in ANY one of these plays, and we are #1 seed.

 

- Henry's long TD run shows a hold on a Bills defender in position to make the tackle, can't blame him for that.

- Return TD called back, literally no one's fault as replay showed no penalty.

- Josh's first ever(?) failed QB sneak, possibly just a flaw in the turf causing his foot to slip.

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

 

Having said that, we went from scoring 501 points in 2020 (16 games) to scoring 483 points in 2021 (17 games). That's 31.3 ppg down to 28.4. Did 2020 spoil us? Maybe. We only dropped from 2nd to 3rd in scoring.

 

Yes, weather was a significant factor in a couple of games, especially against NE. However, the offense stalled against Jacksonville (6 points) and did not look good against Pittsburgh in Week 1 despite eventually scoring 16 points. Those were 2 very winnable games.

 

Our defense clearly improved, strength of opponents is a factor as is weather but we ranked #1 in yards and points, from 375 points against in 16 games to 289 points in 17 games (23.4 ppg down to 17 ppg). Anyone who didn't see progress in the defense this year, I really don't know what to say. 

 

Well, overall, it was a very good year for the offense and a great year for the defense. Still, we went from 13-3 in 2020 to 11-6 in 2021 and ended up the 3rd seed in the AFC, plus 4 teams in the NFC with better records - basically the 7th best record overall. The team has a Super Bowl-quality defense and an offense that is streaky with a very high ceiling ... expectations pre-season were that we were a top 3 team and would contend for the championship. If we win the Super Bowl any objections are irrelevant, but a few fans on this board are not the only observers who feel the team underperformed a bit up to this point (see the 538 analysis, for example). 

 

In any case, the regular season is behind us. All they have to do now is win 4 in a row - let's go!

 

 

Wasn't just the Bills. Scoring was up across the league in 2020. I don't think 2020 is a good year to use to benchmark anything. No fans and a conscious decision by the NFL to call less holding led to higher offensive output. 

 

Teams averaged 24.8 points per game in 2020. Was down to 23.0 in 2021. So the Bills drop was slightly more than the league average but the point stands 2020 is s flawed benchmark.

Edited January 11, 2022 by GunnerBill

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Happy Anniversary 

 

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

12 hours ago, ganesh said:

Consistently wanting it ALL THE TIME !!!!!   Go Bills !

Again, the Titans are the #1 seed because of that ONE play...the same play where they made the play and we didn't. 

Sure but I think the poster was saying we were that close to the 1 seed. Thus we don’t need to discuss firing McDermott.
 

Now if your stance is that because the titans made that one extra play that we didn’t means we should fire McDermott, then I don’t know what to say to you. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 1/10/2022 at 9:51 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

But what are the Bills supposed to do? Play teams not on the schedule. Even if you accept that they played a reasonably easy schedule of QBs you then look at the numbers and realise the defense was outstanding. They took full advantage. Not much more they can do. 

 

1st in points against

1st in yards against

1st in fewest % of drives against ending in points

1st in yards per drive

1st in yards per play (and by a huge 0.4 yards per play.... the difference between the Bills in first and the Browns in second is the same as the difference between the Browns in 2nd and the Titans in 18th)

1st in 3rd down defense

1st in QB hurry %

1st in pressure %

1st in air yards given up (about 340 yards clear of 2nd place Chicago)

 

And that is just the firsts..... let's look where else they rank top 10:

 

6th in redzone defense (touchdowns only)

7th in sack percentage (ie. the percentage of passing attempts against where they sacked the opposing QB)

7th in % of drives against that ended in a turnover

8th in 4th down defense

9th in QB knock downs

 

I mean by modern standards that is pretty extraordinary. So yes, sure, they played some beatable competition. But they beat it handily on defense. 

 

 

 

 

 

Dont forget, we still faced some tough opponents too like KC, and beat them.  So yeah, I don't get some of these people who want to discredit what the Bills defense did this year.

 

I swear, if you read the shout box during a game, its like the expectation is that the Bills should never give up a point or first down.  Every time a team gets a first down or scores, the shout box loses it and calls the game a loss already.  The "I hate this defense" shouts start flowing or the "our defense sucks, dont care what the stats say".  

 

Its crazy at times.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont forget, we still faced some tough opponents too like KC, and beat them.  So yeah, I don't get some of these people who want to discredit what the Bills defense did this year.

 

I swear, if you read the shout box during a game, its like the expectation is that the Bills should never give up a point or first down.  Every time a team gets a first down or scores, the shout box loses it and calls the game a loss already.  The "I hate this defense" shouts start flowing or the "our defense sucks, dont care what the stats say".  

 

Its crazy at times.  

At times?  
 

like ALL the time 😆 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont forget, we still faced some tough opponents too like KC, and beat them.  So yeah, I don't get some of these people who want to discredit what the Bills defense did this year.

 

I swear, if you read the shout box during a game, its like the expectation is that the Bills should never give up a point or first down.  Every time a team gets a first down or scores, the shout box loses it and calls the game a loss already.  The "I hate this defense" shouts start flowing or the "our defense sucks, dont care what the stats say".  

 

Its crazy at times.  

 

I am rarely a gameday shoutboxer but it is the same in the gameday thread. It comes down to people don't like bend but don't break style defenses. Our defense is not a big physical punch you in the mouth scheme, nor is it a flashy blitz and max pressure scheme. It is about disguise, discipline and nuance. It is about the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. They make you put together long drives and they make you play perfect football. If you do that you can score on them, but as soon as you make a mistake they pounce and get you off the field. Some fans hate that style despite the exceptional results. 

 

Personally I think it is the right way to build your defense in the modern NFL. Both from the standpoint of adjusting to the rules and the way the game is played and from the perspective of building a sustainable defense that is manageable through the cap.