Wonderlic Test Eliminated from Pre-Draft Process

[Augie]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yeah, but it's immediately evident to anyone who sees me that I'm slow. It takes them a while to figure out the stupid part.

Yeah, that’s what we get for opening our mouths.  

 

Of course we never learn because, well……..we’re stupid.    🤷‍♂️

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

Because it is taken and used by some as the opposite of the Honor Roll. The Honor Roll recognizes select people for a outstanding achieve. The Wonderlic scores are used to denigrate people like Vince Young or Lamar Jackson.

 

Absolutely right. The results of any kind of "intelligence" test should be absolutely confidential and released only to those who need to know within an organization. If a player wishes to release the information, fine, but not anyone else. 

[The Frankish Reich]

35 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Think Vince Young has the record for the lowest ever with 6 but he still went number 3 overall so doubt it really means alot to certain teams out here 

Unfortunately for Vince Young, he kind of lends support to the theory that the Wonderlic is useful. Although to be honest it was never clear how much of his initial promise followed by steep decline was due to lack of effort rather than lack of ability, mental and/or physical. 

I do think for QBs in the last 20 years we've seen only guys who are average or above on the Wonderlic (supposedly 24 for QBs) succeed at the highest level for a sustained period of time.

 

https://www.insidehook.com/article/sports/wonderlic-test-predict-quarterbacks-nfl-success#:~:text=Counting Mahomes%2C the last 10,average Wonderlic score of 29.6.

 

This article is a pretty crude and non-statistically significant take on it, but it's still accurate:

 

Counting Mahomes [24 on the Wonderlic], the last 10 Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks — Tom Brady (33), Nick Foles (29), Peyton Manning (28), Russell Wilson (28), Joe Flacco (27), Eli Manning (39), Aaron Rodgers (35), Drew Brees (28) and Ben Roethlisberger (25) — had an average Wonderlic score of 29.6.

 

Lamar Jackson (13) and even Kyler Murray (20) can certainly do a lot to disprove this supposition over the next several years. As can Tua (19). On the other hand, Josh Allen 2.0 (Justin Herbert) scored a 38, Joe Burrow a 34 ...

[Augie]

1 hour ago, HOUSE said:

If Sally has a horse and You have a horse

 

How many total horses do you and sally have ?

 

Er ah.....3

 

 

 

Lamar, would you like to check your math there? 

 

See, I can’t help myself! No need for that to be public. 

[BillsShredder83]

4 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

As I stated above, in this era the agents prepare their clients for the Wonderlic before they take the test.  In the early 1980s the agents weren't doing that.  

I doubt many people would argue the game hasn't become much more cerebral since the 80s as well. A guy scoring 15 back then would have an easier time reading more vanilla ish defenses and remembering a more simple playbook.

[mead107]

I think the time is coming to do away with sports because not everyone is the same. 

[Jerome007]

4 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

these supposedly confidential scores get leaked every single year by NFL staff and personnel, in part, I believe, to cover their a**es and give themselves an out for picking (or not picking) a certain player.

They are supposed to be confidential? Ha ha. I didn't know that... since we indeed know about them every year. Anyway, intelligence and quick decision making ARE part of being a QB. I don't think Peyton and Brady made a career because of their "amazing" athletic abilities. Let's face it, we get a quick that Josh is super athletic yet ALSO scored high on that test. 

[Andy1]

I accept that some tests are biased based upon the background and education that an individual has had. However, there must be some objective intelligence measuring test to evaluate an individuals ability to solve puzzles, problems, recognize patterns, etc. that would help NFL teams evaluate the mental ability of prospects.
 

This seems most applicable to the quarterback position as so much of that job involves mental problem solving and correct decision making. If I was a GM and my future and the future of the organization depends on getting the QB draft pick right, I would want all the info I could get on a prospect. 

[JaCrispy]

Oh great! Now we’re not going to be able to steer clear of the dumb athletes...

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by JaCrispy

[Wizard]

No doubt the Wonderlic was eliminated for several reasons.

 

1. The first probably being that it was not necessarily an accurate predictor to compare processing a quick word problem to processing a game situation.

 

2. Teams likely use a shorter test similar to the wonderlic for players they invite for a formal visit.

 

3. The NFLPA has likely pushed the narrative that the Wonderlic is inherently biased or flawed and therefore may cause an inequitable testing experience for those who are not white.

 

I bet these were among the top 3 factors for the removal of the Wonderlic.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Wizard

[Ralonzo]

11 hours ago, stosh64 said:

Did the NFL deem it 'racist'?

Yeah, against the SEC

[stuvian]

Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf, come on down! You're the next contestants on league's gone woke

[Ethan in Cleveland]

It would be very interesting to get an honest assessment from GM how much they weigh combine performance into their thoughts.  Jerry Rice did not run a 4.3 40.  They can see if guys can separate on film. What does running a 40 yard dash from a sprinters stance have to do with football

1 hour ago, Wizard said:

No doubt the Wonderlic was eliminated for several reasons.

 

1. The first probably being that it was not necessarily an accurate predictor to compare processing a quick word problem to processing a game situation.

 

2. Teams likely use a shorter test similar to the wonderlic for players they invite for a formal visit.

 

3. The NFLPA has likely pushed the narrative that the Wonderlic is inherently biased or flawed and therefore may cause an inequitable testing experience for those who are not white.

 

I bet these were among the top 3 factors for the removal of the Wonderlic.

All good probable and valid reasons.  Just watch the tape and talk to the players

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

totally ridiculous.  

 

Can teams have players take them during a pre-draft visit?  

 

 

It makes total sense. Teams have plenty of chances to evaluate player game smarts. Plenty. Interviews give you a much better individualized view anyway.

[billsfan1959]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It makes total sense. Teams have plenty of chances to evaluate player game smarts. Plenty. Interviews give you a much better individualized view anyway.

 

Agree 100%

 

However, I also believe any team should be able to conduct any tests they choose to measure intellect, pyschological/personality traits or issues, or any other cognitive activities/abilities they choose. My problem is with that kind of information being released publicly.

[badassgixxer05]

I mean it was a really good way to tell who earned there grades while in school and who got good grades because they were a great football player...

[HOUSE]

Ryan Fitzpatrick's claim to fame is gone.

 

NOW, he just went to Harvard

[SoTier]

18 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

NFL is a microcosm of what’s happening in society in general ; eliminate all standards. Not surprising, and neither is a media type like Florio championing the decision. 

 

What "standards" are being eliminated by getting rid of the Wonderlic?  The NFL doesn't have a minimum Wonderlic score to be eligible to be drafted.  

 

17 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

An advanced degree in stats would help you do an actual multivariate analysis to determine the strength of the correlation between Wonderlic scores and football contribution.   I think somebody has drawn a conclusion here, but i doubt has done the analysis

 

The Wonderlic measures academic test taking skills the potential draftees have already mastered.   It doesn't measure much else.  

 

17 hours ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

To think "native intelligence" doesnt play a  major part in pro QB success is naive.  The number of plays/auditbles/formations and instantaneous analysis they have to make is extraordinary.  Imagin Josh Allen with a room temperature IQ, i dont think he would be nearly the QB he is today, if for no other reason he can figure things out like how to be a good leader.  The NFL is littered with QBs with all the physical attributes but didnt have the mental acumen like Vince Young, Jarmercus Russel, JP Losman and on and on.  

 

Is intelligence the defining factor for a QB, obviously not but it certainly makes his job a lot easier.

 

"Native intelligence" isn't measured by the Wonderlic test (or the SAT or IQ tests).    Psychologists, scientists, and educators have been wrestling with the question of "what is intelligence?" since the late 19th and early 20th century, and they haven't really found a definitive answer.  What is known is that simple standardized multiple choice tests pretty much measure only what the test creators value which might or might not coincide with what the test takers value.  

 

 

[RobbRiddick]

Some of the tests are worth keeping.

 

This is footage of Sam Darnold attempting a test developed to judge a QB's aptitude for no-look passes

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by RobbRiddick

[dorquemada]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

 

The Wonderlic measures academic test taking skills the potential draftees have already mastered.   It doesn't measure much else.  

 

 

 

 

"The 40 yard dash measures strait line speed over 40 yards.  It doesn't measure much else"

 

"The 225lb bench press measures how many times  a player can lift 225lbs.  It doesn't measure much else"

 

I guess if we don't think these individual metrics matter, then what's the point of the combine, or even scouting?

 

Ability to read, quickly assimilate information, and understand abstraction are all critical functions of a modern football player.  A much more believable argument against the wonderlic is that the test itself doesn't measure anything relevant to football.  If you're arguing that a player's intelligence has no bearing on their football skillset, then go on and make that argument. 

 

The notion that it's not fair to hold a poor education against a player is odd.  I'm not aware of any other human endeavor where we make excuses like this.  Oh, you want to be a Civil Engineer but cant read or do calculus?  We we certainly don't want to hold that against you!  Go on, build that bridge!