Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Tommy Callahan]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Yeah, it's B.S.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/kremlin-says-putin-survived-overnight-114602738.html

its almost as believable as russia blowing up the nord stream pipelines with ghost ships.

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

 

9 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Thats nuts.  if they were launched from Ukraine, they would have to have a 500 mile range.  

 

In all this BS aggression, never heard of Верховна Рада being struck.  

 

Putin will use this.

 

 

The story of this high risk, low probability of success mission sounds totally implausible. 

[Tommy Callahan]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

The story of this high risk, low probability of success mission sounds totally implausible. 

Moscow is one of the most watched cities in the world (CCTV).  if it was launched from inside the city, hard to imagine they wouldn't have video evidence.

 

Nonetheless, it was revealed that there were 193,000 cameras installed in Moscow and 55,000 in St. Petersburg in 2019. Both ranked among the top 50 most-surveilled cities in the world: Moscow had 15.4 cameras per 1,000 people (No. 29) while St. Petersburg had 10.1 cameras per 1,000 people (No. 37)

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-video-surveillance/31052482.html#:~:text=Nonetheless%2C it was revealed that there were 193%2C000,had 10.1 cameras per 1%2C000 people (No. 37).

[SCBills]

 

[Big Blitz]

 

[reddogblitz]

6 hours ago, Chris farley said:

Wouldn't even have this convo if we actually had accounting of what we buy and are sending 

 

Why didn't Gaetz ask him if Erik Prince's private army is fighting over there on our behalf?  

[Unforgiven]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Who was controlling the drone, Biden?

[Tommy Callahan]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Why didn't Gaetz ask him if Erik Prince's private army is fighting over there on our behalf?  

Cause he is a pos and is following script.  But at least aoc and him drafted the anti stock trading bill.  Won't pass through either party though 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Chris farley

[ChiGoose]

Four Possibilities for the Kremlin Attack

 

 1. “First, it is possible that the Ukrainians or some Ukrainian team in Moscow could have used drones. But it is unlikely, because it doesn’t make much sense. An attack on the Kremlin might be an obvious symbolic move, but a demonstrative strike on an empty building at night would be a waste of already strained Ukrainian intelligence resources, and would likely annoy the Americans and NATO in the bargain. (Also, as one former U.S. defense official noted, the Ukrainians are pretty good at tracking Putin, and if reports of the event are accurate, they likely knew he wasn’t in the building.)

 

2. A second possibility is that Russian intelligence and military authorities got wind of a plot by some group to strike the Kremlin, and then let it happen as a way to goad Putin into using even more force in Ukraine.
 

3. It is also possible that the strike on the Kremlin came from Russian dissidents, especially if it was done with some sort of crude, jerry-rigged device.

 

4. But the most disturbing possibility is that this is a Russian government put-up job from start to finish. There are several reasons this makes more sense than other explanations.

First, an attack on the Kremlin would give Putin the rationalization he’s been seeking for some kind of dramatic and murderous action that might not make much military sense, but that would destabilize Ukraine and unsettle the world on the eve of a major Ukrainian counteroffensive. The Russians, I believe, are dreading this coming operation, and want to change the narrative at home and abroad. I have no idea what Putin has up his sleeve, but even on his better days, he is prone to strategically idiotic moves. He might try to drag Belarus into the war, he could make more nuclear threats, or he could even order redoubled efforts to kill Zelensky.
 

In any case, faking a drone attack would fit into the long-standing Russian affinity for “false flag” operations. Though conspiracy theorists in the United States often trumpet unfounded claims of false flags, professional intelligence services do conduct such operations, and Moscow has been particularly fond of them all the way back to the Soviet period.

 

[reddogblitz]

5 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Four Possibilities for the Kremlin Attack

 

 1. “First, it is possible that the Ukrainians or some Ukrainian team in Moscow could have used drones. But it is unlikely, because it doesn’t make much sense. An attack on the Kremlin might be an obvious symbolic move, but a demonstrative strike on an empty building at night would be a waste of already strained Ukrainian intelligence resources, and would likely annoy the Americans and NATO in the bargain. (Also, as one former U.S. defense official noted, the Ukrainians are pretty good at tracking Putin, and if reports of the event are accurate, they likely knew he wasn’t in the building.)

 

2. A second possibility is that Russian intelligence and military authorities got wind of a plot by some group to strike the Kremlin, and then let it happen as a way to goad Putin into using even more force in Ukraine.
 

3. It is also possible that the strike on the Kremlin came from Russian dissidents, especially if it was done with some sort of crude, jerry-rigged device.

 

4. But the most disturbing possibility is that this is a Russian government put-up job from start to finish. There are several reasons this makes more sense than other explanations.

First, an attack on the Kremlin would give Putin the rationalization he’s been seeking for some kind of dramatic and murderous action that might not make much military sense, but that would destabilize Ukraine and unsettle the world on the eve of a major Ukrainian counteroffensive. The Russians, I believe, are dreading this coming operation, and want to change the narrative at home and abroad. I have no idea what Putin has up his sleeve, but even on his better days, he is prone to strategically idiotic moves. He might try to drag Belarus into the war, he could make more nuclear threats, or he could even order redoubled efforts to kill Zelensky.
 

In any case, faking a drone attack would fit into the long-standing Russian affinity for “false flag” operations. Though conspiracy theorists in the United States often trumpet unfounded claims of false flags, professional intelligence services do conduct such operations, and Moscow has been particularly fond of them all the way back to the Soviet period.

 

 

I'm going with #4. A Gulf of Tonkin style operation.

[sherpa]

One of the weird things about Putin is how utterly fearful he is of an assassination attempt.

He uses various offices at different locations and has them outfitted the same way so it can't be identified from his video speeches where he is.

[Tommy Callahan]

8 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Four Possibilities for the Kremlin Attack

 

 1. “First, it is possible that the Ukrainians or some Ukrainian team in Moscow could have used drones. But it is unlikely, because it doesn’t make much sense. An attack on the Kremlin might be an obvious symbolic move, but a demonstrative strike on an empty building at night would be a waste of already strained Ukrainian intelligence resources, and would likely annoy the Americans and NATO in the bargain. (Also, as one former U.S. defense official noted, the Ukrainians are pretty good at tracking Putin, and if reports of the event are accurate, they likely knew he wasn’t in the building.)

 

2. A second possibility is that Russian intelligence and military authorities got wind of a plot by some group to strike the Kremlin, and then let it happen as a way to goad Putin into using even more force in Ukraine.
 

3. It is also possible that the strike on the Kremlin came from Russian dissidents, especially if it was done with some sort of crude, jerry-rigged device.

 

4. But the most disturbing possibility is that this is a Russian government put-up job from start to finish. There are several reasons this makes more sense than other explanations.

First, an attack on the Kremlin would give Putin the rationalization he’s been seeking for some kind of dramatic and murderous action that might not make much military sense, but that would destabilize Ukraine and unsettle the world on the eve of a major Ukrainian counteroffensive. The Russians, I believe, are dreading this coming operation, and want to change the narrative at home and abroad. I have no idea what Putin has up his sleeve, but even on his better days, he is prone to strategically idiotic moves. He might try to drag Belarus into the war, he could make more nuclear threats, or he could even order redoubled efforts to kill Zelensky.
 

In any case, faking a drone attack would fit into the long-standing Russian affinity for “false flag” operations. Though conspiracy theorists in the United States often trumpet unfounded claims of false flags, professional intelligence services do conduct such operations, and Moscow has been particularly fond of them all the way back to the Soviet period.

 

reminds me of the False drone attack on Maduro in Venezuela.  was all used to crack down on dissidence and made maduro stronger.

 

 

and its impossible to ignore how this exact narrative was in the leaked documents a few weeks ago.  making sure the narrative Russia needs for this, is already established in those docs as something planned, and approved/denied by US.

 

Some serous fog going on.

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Wow!!! 

 

 

[ALF]

Russia’s jamming of US-provided rocket systems complicates Ukraine’s war effort

 

Russia has been thwarting US-made mobile rocket systems in Ukraine more frequently in recent months, using electronic jammers to throw off its GPS guided targeting system to cause rockets to miss their targets, multiple people briefed on the matter told CNN.

 

But in recent months, the systems have been rendered increasingly less effective by the Russians’ intensive blocking, five US, British and Ukrainian sources tell CNN, forcing US and Ukrainian officials to find ways to tweak the HIMARS’ software to counter the evolving Russian jamming efforts.

 

The US has also helped the Ukrainians locate the Russian jammers and destroy them – a “high priority” effort, according to a secret Pentagon document that was part of a trove allegedly leaked by Airman Jack Teixeira.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/05/politics/russia-jamming-himars-rockets-ukraine/index.html

Edited May 5, 2023 by ALF

[Joe Ferguson forever]

puts a whole new spin on the drone attack.  Putin is having a very bad, no good, horrible week.  See you Vlad...

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/05/wagner-group-prigozhin-dead-bodies-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, redtail hawk said:

puts a whole new spin on the drone attack.  Putin is having a very bad, no good, horrible week.  See you Vlad...

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/05/wagner-group-prigozhin-dead-bodies-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn

you realize that Wagner boss is saying they will leave unless the Elite/leaders provide more and stronger weapons and air support?  and those leaders have been openly calling for it.  they are putting pressure on Putin to Escalate.

 

and you think this is good for ukraine?  short or long term?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

9 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

you realize that Wagner boss is saying they will leave unless the Elite/leaders provide more and stronger weapons and air support?  and those leaders have been openly calling for it.  they are putting pressure on Putin to Escalate.

 

and you think this is good for ukraine?  short or long term?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not my interpretation.  He's saying the Russian military and implicitly Putin are f'ing up the war effort.  And they are stepping back, at least for now.  This overt attack on Putin likely results in either he or the Wagner boss going down...At the very least, it shows chaos within the military.  They are losing big time.  Big question is could they escalate effectively even if they wanted to.

Edited May 5, 2023 by redtail hawk

[SectionC3]

19 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

puts a whole new spin on the drone attack.  Putin is having a very bad, no good, horrible week.  See you Vlad...

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/05/wagner-group-prigozhin-dead-bodies-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn

F him.  

 

One of the truly sad pieces of Trumpism is that there are some d-bags in this country who support that d-bag.  Putin can rot.  

[Tommy Callahan]

23 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

not my interpretation.  He's saying the Russian military and implicitly Putin are f'ing up the war effort.  And they are stepping back, at least for now.  This overt attack on Putin likely results in either he or the Wagner boss going down...At the very least, it shows chaos within the military.  They are losing big time.  Big question is could they escalate effectively even if they wanted to.

I know. its the CNN interpretation/narrative. 

 

And yeah, the war dogs in that country have been begging for full out attack of the Ukrainian government vs fighting in/around the disputed regions.

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/vladimir-putin-assassination-destroy-kyiv-russian-parliament-speakers-call-for-action-after-putin-attack-101683122745574.html

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-russia-kremlin-volodin/russian-parliament-speaker-demands-use-of-weapons-capable-of-destroying-kyiv-regime-idINS8N36Y002

 

No CNN translation and narrative needed.

 

 

 

 

[Coffeesforclosers]

37 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

puts a whole new spin on the drone attack.  Putin is having a very bad, no good, horrible week.  See you Vlad...

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/05/wagner-group-prigozhin-dead-bodies-ovn-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn

 

Yeah.

 

The theory I saw, that seems the most reasonable, goes like this.

 

Russia knows they're going to get hit by some kind of Ukrainian counter-attack, and it's going to be big and well equipped. Russia also knows its most effective arm is its Artillery.  So the Russian Ministry of Defense is stockpiling artillery ammunition so they can give Ukraine the warmest possible reception.

 

However, Wagner Group is only concerned about taking Bakhmut, and to do so they need huge amounts of artillery support. Prigozhin, who owns Wagner, is in a political pissing match with the Russian MoD, and he'd love to take Bahkmut in order to humiliate Sergei Shoigu and Valerii Gerasimov.  Shoigu and Gerasimov control the arty ammo supply though, and are happy to tell Wagner to kick rocks, or continue their attacks without artillery. Which results in literal piles of dead Wagner mercenaries.

 

Prigozhin is a-ok with hurling the dregs of Russia's penal colonies into Ukrainian defenses, but only if he enhances his prestige, and gains him influence with Tsar Vladimir that he can use against the MoD. So he's happy to send Wagner back to Syria and Central Africa and let the Russian army twist unless he gets his artillery ammunition.  Which the Russian Army won't do, because they need that ammunition to try and blow up Ukrainian Offensive Guards brigades and Leopard 2 tanks, not polish their rival's resume. 

 

Russia is an interesting place. 

[SCBills]

Gonzalo Lira, journalist critic of Ukraine, being arrested/disappeared by Ukrainian military is yet another fantastic example of why we’re simply funding a proxy war against Russia .. this isn’t preservation of democracy … the country is simply a lesser evil of corruption and authoritarianism. 

[Wacka]

The "drone strike" is a false  flag effort. Saw a video of the "attack" and there were two people walking up the stairs on one of the domes on the 

kremlin at 2:30 AM. WTH were they doing there at that time?

 

 

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

Yeah.

 

The theory I saw, that seems the most reasonable, goes like this.

 

Russia knows they're going to get hit by some kind of Ukrainian counter-attack, and it's going to be big and well equipped. Russia also knows its most effective arm is its Artillery.  So the Russian Ministry of Defense is stockpiling artillery ammunition so they can give Ukraine the warmest possible reception.

 

However, Wagner Group is only concerned about taking Bakhmut, and to do so they need huge amounts of artillery support. Prigozhin, who owns Wagner, is in a political pissing match with the Russian MoD, and he'd love to take Bahkmut in order to humiliate Sergei Shoigu and Valerii Gerasimov.  Shoigu and Gerasimov control the arty ammo supply though, and are happy to tell Wagner to kick rocks, or continue their attacks without artillery. Which results in literal piles of dead Wagner mercenaries.

 

Prigozhin is a-ok with hurling the dregs of Russia's penal colonies into Ukrainian defenses, but only if he enhances his prestige, and gains him influence with Tsar Vladimir that he can use against the MoD. So he's happy to send Wagner back to Syria and Central Africa and let the Russian army twist unless he gets his artillery ammunition.  Which the Russian Army won't do, because they need that ammunition to try and blow up Ukrainian Offensive Guards brigades and Leopard 2 tanks, not polish their rival's resume. 

 

Russia is an interesting place. 

Seems plausible.  There doesn't seem to be a good explanation that paints Russia in a good light.  They're a mess and the Wagner guy calling out Putin would normally seem like an immediate death sentence or at least arrest.  We'll see...

Edited May 5, 2023 by redtail hawk

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Gonzalo Lira, journalist critic of Ukraine, being arrested/disappeared by Ukrainian military is yet another fantastic example of why we’re simply funding a proxy war against Russia .. this isn’t preservation of democracy … the country is simply a lesser evil of corruption and authoritarianism. 

Please.  It’s not perfect.  But it’s not letting Russia run amok.  And for a MAGA to complain about corruption … spare me.  

[SCBills]

14 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Please.  It’s not perfect.  But it’s not letting Russia run amok.  And for a MAGA to complain about corruption … spare me.  

It’s so tiresome to see y’all label anyone that disagrees with you as MAGA… but please, we must save Ukraine above all else!  
 

Thank goodness support for this proxy war is slipping, and there’s not much neolibs and neocons can do about it. 

 

In the meantime, at least Kiev knows how to party during this war.  The girl to guy ratio is amazing .. oh, wait…

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by SCBills

[Coffeesforclosers]

Somebody shot down a Kinzhal hypersonic missile supposedly. The Ukrainian Airforce is pissed because somebody blabbered that they can shoot down Kinzhals. And because they went further and said they did it with a PAC-3 patriot missile. 

 

Could all be nonsense. Could be true. Very interesting if it's true. 

[Tommy Callahan]

It's on.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

14 hours ago, Chris farley said:

It's on.

 

 

OMG, the comments on this piece....tucker lickers everywhere.  and then they say liberals have a mental disease.  I'm now concerned that Blackrock has placed DNA in the eggs I will soon consume and that it will intercalate with my native DNA and start turning me into an alien.  What must I do?  What must I do?  OK, no eggs this morning

Edited May 6, 2023 by redtail hawk

[aristocrat]

 

[Tiberius]

The leader of the Wagner mercenary group issued a blistering statement denouncing Russia’s defense leaders for “treason” and “destruction” on Tuesday — a particularly vociferous denunciation that came as Russian President Vladimir Putin praised the nation’s military strength amid a pared-down Victory Day celebration.

 

The holiday, among Russia’s most important, celebrates the Soviet victory over Nazi German in the Second World War — a fight Putin has often invoked to justify Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Yevgeniy Prigozhin, the Wagner head, claimed that his troops had “no ammunition” and that Russian troops were fleeing their positions in Ukraine. Blaming “those who give them orders and who set the tasks,” he said that “the fish rots from the head.” He declared that it was no time to celebrate: “Victory Day is the victory of our grandfathers. We don’t deserve this victory one millimeter.”

The Biden administration on Tuesday announced a $1.2 billion aid package aimed at bolstering Ukraine’s air defenses and sustaining its ammunition supply.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/09/russia-ukraine-war-news-victory-day/

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[BillStime]

This POS said infrastructure was 2 weeks away for four years and never delivered on TrumpCare - and he is going to end the war in 24 hours?

 

[SectionC3]

2 minutes ago, BillStime said:

This POS said infrastructure was 2 weeks away for four years and never delivered on TrumpCare - and he is going to end the war in 24 hours?

 

 

I bet this fool is storing this plan is in the same place as Nixon's unpublished plan to end the war in Vietnam.  It's hard to believe that people buy what this blowhard is selling, but they do.  Lots of people are saying that Trump's followers are morons.  

[BillStime]

17 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I bet this fool is storing this plan is in the same place as Nixon's unpublished plan to end the war in Vietnam.  It's hard to believe that people buy what this blowhard is selling, but they do.  Lots of people are saying that Trump's followers are morons.  

 

Trump supporters would jump over Niagara Falls if he told them to do so...

 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Coffeesforclosers]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

[SectionC3]

46 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

.

Cool.  Me too.  Unfortunately the best way for that to happen at this point is for the Ukranians to kill some more Russians.  

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

This POS said infrastructure was 2 weeks away for four years and never delivered on TrumpCare - and he is going to end the war in 24 hours?

 

I can't wait to find out how nobody knew how complicated negotiating peace talks would be.

[Tommy Callahan]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I can't wait to find out how nobody knew how complicated negotiating peace talks would be.

Who knows. so far that's not the goal and have not heard about anyone trying.

 

 

[Tiberius]

Well if the Russian forces around Bakhmut are in as much disarray then I bet Ukraine is attacking  

Quote

 

Ukraine needs more time before launching its long-anticipated spring counteroffensive against Russian forces, President Volodymyr Zelensky said. Speaking to the BBC and European public broadcasters, Zelensky said that while the effort could proceed now “and be successful,” it would incur an “unacceptable” level of loss.

But the founder of Russia’s mercenary Wagner Group, Yevgeniy Prigozhin, claimed Thursday that Ukraine’s counterattack in the besieged front-line city of Bakhmut is “in full swing.” Ukrainian forces are attempting to attack his fighters’ flanks, he said on Telegram, adding: “Unfortunately, in some places they are successful.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/11/russia-ukraine-war-news/