Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

How could you possibly know that?  The only way Russia would agree is if they keep land.  Maybe that really is a non starter for Ukraine as they've said throughout.  If you're paying attention you see Ukraine fighting for every inch of land in Bakhmut which has little value.  

 

Let's consider it this way, if some country took Florida would you be for just letting them have it and backing down?  Maybe during the revolutionary War we should have just backed down because we were up against a superior force right?  I thought the right was all about patriotism.   You sure don't understand it elsewhere. 

Im sure it’s a non-starter for America.  
 

Ukraine will not win this war.  
 

Russia may not either. 
 

We have no end game, which is the point.  This is a grind it out proxy war against Russia, with Ukraine used as meat for the grinder.  
 

Do you have any empathy for the war-age men (on both sides) that are forced into this brutal war?  The wives losing their husbands?  The kids losing their fathers?   

For what?  Land that has been disputed for a long time?   Do you even know anything about the history/make up of Crimea or the Donbas?

 

Russia should’ve never invaded Eastern Ukraine.  They’ve been successfully repelled.  Now is time for a peace deal.  
 

Zelensky has no leverage.  If we stop arming him, Ukraine falls.  We could stop this war by carving out a peace deal.  We, the United States, refuse to do that … because this is not about Ukraine … as usual, this is about us - and our interests. 
 

Edited May 19, 2023 by SCBills

[Tiberius]

26 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It does upset me, a tad...but ‘dope’ isn’t anywhere close to ‘POS’ in anyone’s universe. In fact, it might even be considered as nothing more than sarcasm. 

Thanks judge! 

 

Your lack of impartiality and insincerity is obvious. Boo 

[L Ron Burgundy]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Im sure it’s a non-starter for America.  
 

Ukraine will not win this war.  
 

Russia may not either. 
 

We have no end game, which is the point.  This is a grind it out proxy war against Russia, with Ukraine used as meat for the grinder.  
 

Do you have any empathy for the war-age men (on both sides) that are forced into this brutal war?  The wives losing their husbands?  The kids losing their fathers?   

For what?  Land that has been disputed for a long time?   Do you even know anything about the history/make up of Crimea or the Donbas?

 

Russia should’ve never invaded Eastern Ukraine.  They’ve been successfully repelled.  Now is time for a peace deal.  
 

Zelensky has no leverage.  If we stop arming him, Ukraine falls.  We could stop this war by carving out a peace deal.  We, the United States, refuse to do that … because this is not about Ukraine … as usual, this is about us - and our interests. 
 

If Ukraine is disputed lands then so is virtually all of Europe.  And the US is not the center of the universe.  We're not some harbinger of doom causing and prolonging every war.  We've made plenty of mistakes but helping Ukraine isn't one imo.  We also cannot force peace.  If the US stopped sending arms Ukraine wouldn't automatically fall like it sounds like you believe.  Sure things would get a helluva lot worse for Ukraine but they are defending their own land vs the dumbest army on the planet.

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

If Ukraine is disputed lands then so is virtually all of Europe.  And the US is not the center of the universe.  We're not some harbinger of doom causing and prolonging every war.  We've made plenty of mistakes but helping Ukraine isn't one imo.  We also cannot force peace.  If the US stopped sending arms Ukraine wouldn't automatically fall like it sounds like you believe.  Sure things would get a helluva lot worse for Ukraine but they are defending their own land vs the dumbest army on the planet.

Yes, Ukraine would fall if we stopped arming them.  100%.  Full stop.  
 

Sadly, much of their country is decimated.  They have no money.  Their economy has been destroyed.  
 

They are reliant on America, and we know they are reliant upon us, which is why we will give them enough to prolong this war, but not enough to provoke WW3 (hopefully).  
 

They have forced their fighting age men into war, whether they want it or not.  They are not allowed to leave the country.   
 

Russia’s war style is to simply grind down their enemy.  They underestimated Ukraine/The World, but they have endless supplies and man power to continuously flood Ukraine with until they submit.  
 

Unless, we jump in and fight alongside Ukraine… at which point we now have WW3.   And let’s say we do this, and win WW3 … Do you believe Putin just gives himself up for a war tribunal to hang him?  No.  He has nukes.  We run the very real risk at that point that he uses them. 
 

So here we are … grind it out proxy war.
 

MIC enriched.  
 

Russia weakened.  

 

Ukraine gets slowly destroyed.   
 

BRICS countries, along with the African nations, begin to coalesce against America/The West. 

 

That’s the trajectory.  If not, someone give me an end game.  Anyone?  
 

Give Russia the Donbas and Crimea.  Stop provoking them.  Draw up a peace deal off those parameters.  Help rebuild Eastern Ukraine. 
 

Edited May 19, 2023 by SCBills

[L Ron Burgundy]

12 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Yes, Ukraine would fall if we stopped arming them.  100%.  Full stop.  
 

Sadly, much of their country is decimated.  They have no money.  Their economy has been destroyed.  
 

They are reliant on America, and we know they are reliant upon us, which is why we will give them enough to prolong this war, but not enough to provoke WW3 (hopefully).  
 

They have forced their fighting age men into war, whether they want it or not.  They are not allowed to leave the country.   
 

Russia’s war style is to simply grind down their enemy.  They underestimated Ukraine/The World, but they have endless supplies and man power to continuously flood Ukraine with until they submit.  
 

Unless, we jump in and fight alongside Ukraine… at which point we now have WW3.   And let’s say we do this, and win WW3 … Do you believe Putin just gives himself up for a war tribunal to hang him?  No.  He has nukes.  We run the very real risk at that point that he uses them. 
 

So here we are … grind it out proxy war.
 

MIC enriched.  
 

Russia weakened.  

 

Ukraine gets slowly destroyed.   
 

BRICS countries, along with the African nations, begin to coalesce against America/The West. 

 

That’s the trajectory.  If not, someone give me an end game.  Anyone?  
 

Give Russia the Donbas and Crimea.  Stop provoking them.  Draw up a peace deal off those parameters.  Help rebuild Eastern Ukraine. 
 

They have endless supplies huh?  I don't think a country with endless supplies trots out tanks from museums.  They've sent out troops with rusted gear and no water.   You listen to too much anti Ukraine propaganda.   Your opinions are not all based on reality.  

[BillsFanNC]

 

[SoCal Deek]

51 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Thanks judge! 

 

Your lack of impartiality and insincerity is obvious. Boo 

You equate calling someone a piece of Shiite to calling someone a dope? In what universe? When he calls you a POS or gives you the finger….I’ll chime right in….I promise 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

They have endless supplies huh?  I don't think a country with endless supplies trots out tanks from museums.  They've sent out troops with rusted gear and no water.   You listen to too much anti Ukraine propaganda.   Your opinions are not all based on reality.  

I did not say their supplies were state of the art.  Their supplies are trash.  

 

However .. They have oil.  They can always get more supplies.

 

They have an almost infinite amount of fighting age men to throw at Ukraine. 
 

Look at what they did to the Chechen’s.. we’re heading down the same path.  Putin doesn’t care how many lives it costs, because to him, humans are

bullets, and he will keep firing them along with the bombs until years goes by and there’s nothing but rubble. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

If Ukraine is disputed lands then so is virtually all of Europe.  And the US is not the center of the universe.  We're not some harbinger of doom causing and prolonging every war.  We've made plenty of mistakes but helping Ukraine isn't one imo.  We also cannot force peace.  If the US stopped sending arms Ukraine wouldn't automatically fall like it sounds like you believe.  Sure things would get a helluva lot worse for Ukraine but they are defending their own land vs the dumbest army on the planet.

The US is the center of the world order as its ruling Empire.  The European nations are vassal states of the US and have no independent policies of the own without permission from Wahington.  

The goal is to weaken Russia which is a threat to the current order.  So is China.  And any other country that refuses to play by the rules.  The problem is its a long list and growing longer.

Edited May 19, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[cle23]

51 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I did not say their supplies were state of the art.  Their supplies are trash.  

 

However .. They have oil.  They can always get more supplies.

 

They have an almost infinite amount of fighting age men to throw at Ukraine. 
 

Look at what they did to the Chechen’s.. we’re heading down the same path.  Putin doesn’t care how many lives it costs, because to him, humans are

bullets, and he will keep firing them along with the bombs until years goes by and there’s nothing but rubble. 

 

You do understand that if Putin is just given Crimea and the Donbas, that he will just move on to his next target? He thinks all the old USSR territories are rightly his/Russia's.

 

Russia cannot just keep throwing bodies at the issue like they used to.  Their equipment is junk.  They're using WW2 guns in a lot of places. They are running out of planes to deliver the bombs.  

[L Ron Burgundy]

39 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The US is the center of the world order as its ruling Empire.  The European nations are vassal states of the US and have no independent policies of the own without permission from Wahington.  

The goal is to weaken Russia which is a threat to the current order.  So is China.  And any other country that refuses to play by the rules.  The problem is its a long list and growing longer.

That's an exaggeration by orders of magnitude.   Nobody in Europe is a vassal to us except in your head.  Sure we swing a big stick and can get our way at times but most countries have no problem telling us no when our suggestions don't suit them.   People outside the US laugh at Americans that think like this.  

[BillStime]

Still true:

 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, cle23 said:

 

You do understand that if Putin is just given Crimea and the Donbas, that he will just move on to his next target? He thinks all the old USSR territories are rightly his/Russia's.

 

Russia cannot just keep throwing bodies at the issue like they used to.  Their equipment is junk.  They're using WW2 guns in a lot of places. They are running out of planes to deliver the bombs.  

So your second paragraph just told me that they can’t exactly move into “the next target”…. So which is it?

[cle23]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

So your second paragraph just told me that they can’t exactly move into “the next target”…. So which is it?

 

Well, if everyone just walks away as suggested and gives away Crimea and such, Putin would just focus on his next target.  He's not going to just say thanks and sit down. He's proven that already.  

 

The point being that they can't fight the current war forever as suggested. But if everyone just gives in,  there's nothing to suggest it would stop there. 

 

And I do believe that Putin is going to try to solve this with more and more bodies.  That doesn't mean it's going to work. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by cle23

[aristocrat]

 

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

What does this mean? 

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

What does this mean? 

I’ll agree with you on this one Tibs. Most of these memes need a bit more thought and editing. 

[Roundybout]

29 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Hasnt this one been posted like 8 times by the nameless MAGA Twitter profiles?

[aristocrat]

8 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

Hasnt this one been posted like 8 times by the nameless MAGA Twitter profiles?

Never hurts to post it again 

[SCBills]

Sounds like Bakhmut just fell to Wagner/Russia?

 

Just yesterday, both CNN and Fox reported Wagner was retreating from the city.  So which is it?
 

 

[Tiberius]

  

[B-Man]

30 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Sounds like Bakhmut just fell to Wagner/Russia?

 

Just yesterday, both CNN and Fox reported Wagner was retreating from the city.  So which is it?
 

 

 

 

You never know what is real from the war zone, but this was posted.

 

 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

You never know what is real from the war zone, but this was posted.

 

 

Agreed.  Tough to know what’s going on, but it seems far different than Gen Kellogg on Fox yesterday talking about the tension between Wagner’s leader and Putin given their “retreat” from Bakhmut.  
 

[Tiberius]

 

[Tiberius]

 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

 

I honestly don’t believe anything our media says about this war.  Especially when we have Jennifer “pro-war” Rubin framing this article is such ridiculously obvious fashion. 
 

It’s the one thing both media sides are in complete agreement upon, and they’ve been wrong so, so much.  
 

All Russian reporting is basically banned, and all they keep doing is parroting “we’re winning” propaganda from Ukraine. 
 

Wagner is in retreat from Bakhmut!!  (1 day later).  Bakhmut has fallen.   Ok…

[All_Pro_Bills]

30 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I honestly don’t believe anything our media says about this war.  Especially when we have Jennifer “pro-war” Rubin framing this article is such ridiculously obvious fashion. 
 

It’s the one thing both media sides are in complete agreement upon, and they’ve been wrong so, so much.  
 

All Russian reporting is basically banned, and all they keep doing is parroting “we’re winning” propaganda from Ukraine. 
 

Wagner is in retreat from Bakhmut!!  (1 day later).  Bakhmut has fallen.   Ok…

The first casualty of war is the truth.

[Tiberius]

52 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I honestly don’t believe anything our media says about this war.  Especially when we have Jennifer “pro-war” Rubin framing this article is such ridiculously obvious fashion. 
 

It’s the one thing both media sides are in complete agreement upon, and they’ve been wrong so, so much.  
 

All Russian reporting is basically banned, and all they keep doing is parroting “we’re winning” propaganda from Ukraine. 
 

Wagner is in retreat from Bakhmut!!  (1 day later).  Bakhmut has fallen.   Ok…

Ok, don't believe anything

 

Carry on 

 

 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Ok, don't believe anything

 

Carry on 

 

 

 

 

Blinking also led the effort to whitewash the Hunter laptop story with the fake intelligence community letter.  The guys a saint.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

5 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

Celebrating a fascist victory? 

 

You are literally gloating over this buddy. Your side in this war will lose so enjoy your Putin victory while you can 

[aristocrat]

5 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Celebrating a fascist victory? 

 

You are literally gloating over this buddy. Your side in this war will lose so enjoy your Putin victory while you can 

You said once we took all the yachts the war would be over in march of last year. Why is it still going on? 

[Roundybout]

38 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

You said once we took all the yachts the war would be over in march of last year. Why is it still going on? 

It ain’t a “military operation” anymore, Putin has his entire ego riding on this and the more losses he takes (it took NINE MONTHS to take over one small city?), the more desperate he becomes.

[aristocrat]

11 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

It ain’t a “military operation” anymore, Putin has his entire ego riding on this and the more losses he takes (it took NINE MONTHS to take over one small city?), the more desperate he becomes.

It’s not a military operation? How exactly did they just take that city then?  What a spin man. Or is this the new narrative for when the left declares war and we send our boys on over? You gonna volunteer to head over?

[Roundybout]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

It’s not a military operation? How exactly did they just take that city then?  What a spin man. Or is this the new narrative for when the left declares war and we send our boys on over? You gonna volunteer to head over?

The entire point of Russia’s little war, if you recall, was a “special military operation” to “denazify” Ukraine. It’s obvious that Putin wants all of Ukraine under his thumb. 
 

Also how come it took Russia nine months to take one city?

Edited May 21, 2023 by Roundybout

[aristocrat]

12 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

The entire point of Russia’s little war, if you recall, was a “special military operation” to “denazify” Ukraine. It’s obvious that Putin wants all of Ukraine under his thumb. 
 

Also how come it took Russia nine months to take one city?

because wars take long times. He has his own narratives like you saying it’s no longer a military option lol. Like you told us they’d be bankrupt, Putin had cancer, dementia, was dying of something else etc. but those who live in reality knew this was going to be a lot harder than you made it out to be 

[SoCal Deek]

Is that city that nobody’s ever heard of part of the small incursion? Or is that all of it? If so why are we sending more money? 

[Orlando Tim]

Had family in town this week and Ukraine came up and I was made aware of a few things that made me feel better, some fact some opinion. The facts are that most of the equipment we have sent were basically mothballed materials that we would not have used unless we were desperate. We also are not prepping any large military groups to go, possibly smaller groups but nothing large will ever go that way. The opinion/rumor part is that the US  is supporting the Ukraine until Putin is removed and will not leave until that goal is accomplished. The complete speculation rumor is that China is wavering in their support of Russia and might start taking parts of Russia if they feel they want the territory.

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

Had family in town this week and Ukraine came up and I was made aware of a few things that made me feel better, some fact some opinion. The facts are that most of the equipment we have sent were basically mothballed materials that we would not have used unless we were desperate. We also are not prepping any large military groups to go, possibly smaller groups but nothing large will ever go that way. The opinion/rumor part is that the US  is supporting the Ukraine until Putin is removed and will not leave until that goal is accomplished. The complete speculation rumor is that China is wavering in their support of Russia and might start taking parts of Russia if they feel they want the territory.

What part of any of that was surprising to you? (Not trying to be snarky.)

[aristocrat]

7 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

Had family in town this week and Ukraine came up and I was made aware of a few things that made me feel better, some fact some opinion. The facts are that most of the equipment we have sent were basically mothballed materials that we would not have used unless we were desperate. We also are not prepping any large military groups to go, possibly smaller groups but nothing large will ever go that way. The opinion/rumor part is that the US  is supporting the Ukraine until Putin is removed and will not leave until that goal is accomplished. The complete speculation rumor is that China is wavering in their support of Russia and might start taking parts of Russia if they feel they want the territory.

china is also only sending back arms that they purchased from Russia as far as I know.