sherpa Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, ALF said: The west is talking about sending there S300 SAM and could have sent the Mig-29 before this latest invasion (better then nothing Both are Russian systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, sherpa said: Both are Russian systems. So should have been no problem if done before this invasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, ALF said: So should have been no problem if done before this invasion. I don't know if "problem" is the right word. If you are going to burden countries with providing very expensive and sophisticated weapons to another country, you need to ensure that the recipient has the skill and manpower to employ them., and the ability to keep them functional. Not sure they had that. Throwing a bunch of Mig 29's at the Ukraine without the ability to man them, control them, knowing that the runways could be wasted on day one is probably a decision that needs consideration. Placing a cadre of SAM 300 systems in place suggests that you better be able to tell who is friend and who is foe, and I'm not sure they had that. These issues are not video games. There are lots or issues on the periphery that are involved in weapons system's calculus. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 3 hours ago, ALF said: When Russia took over Crimea and invaded the Donbas region starting in 2014 the US and NATO should have started training and equipping Ukraine with more advanced SAM and Jets. Once the Russian puppet there was thrown out at that time . The annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation took place in the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution. During his presidency, Poroshenko 2014-19 led the country through the first phase of the War in Donbas, pushing the Russian separatist forces into the Donbas Region. He began the process of integration with the European Union by signing the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement. Who was in Office in 2014? Why do you suppose it wasn't done, considering they (allegedly) weren't "Putin puppets"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Doc said: Who was in Office in 2014? Why do you suppose it wasn't done, considering they (allegedly) weren't "Putin puppets"? Obama had to fund wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with the money he could get from Congress. What did Trump do while in office for Ukraine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 Ukraine is claiming to have hit a Russian warship in the black sea https://ukranews.com/en/news/849331-russian-warship-moskva-is-on-fire-in-black-sea-media 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, ALF said: Obama had to fund wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with the money he could get from Congress. What did Trump do while in office for Ukraine? A partisan would say he prevented it, which is the best thing one can do. I don't believe that, but Putin chose his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, ALF said: Obama had to fund wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with the money he could get from Congress. What did Trump do while in office for Ukraine? Good one ALF. You first asked why nothing was done in 2014, yet now you have excuses for why Barry did nothing (and somehow include the Iraq war, that ended in 2011, while Trump also had to deal with the war in Afghanistan). Just now, sherpa said: A partisan would say he prevented it, which is the best thing one can do. I don't believe that, but Putin chose his time. So if Trump had gotten re-elected, Putin still would have invaded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Doc said: So if Trump had gotten re-elected, Putin still would have invaded? I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Doc said: Good one ALF. You first asked why nothing was done in 2014, yet now you have excuses for why Barry did nothing (and somehow include the Iraq war, that ended in 2011, while Trump also had to deal with the war in Afghanistan). Republicans had a majority in the House limiting Defense spending from 2011- Jan 2019 to restrict Obama spending to reduce deficit In December 2019, Iraq and the United States began discussing the partial withdrawal of American combat troops from Iraq. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_United_States_troops_from_Iraq_(2020–2021) Budget Control Act of 2011 The bill directly specified $917 billion of cuts over 10 years in exchange for the initial debt limit increase of $900 billion. This is the first installment ("tranche") of cuts. $21 billion of this will be applied in the FY2012 budget. The goal of the legislation was to cut at least $1.5 trillion over the coming 10 years and be passed by December 23, 2011. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, sherpa said: A partisan would say he prevented it, which is the best thing one can do. I don't believe that, but Putin chose his time. The armed conflict in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014. Between then and early 2022, it had already killed over 14,000 people. Over the course of eight years, Ukrainian government forces fought Russian-backed separatists for control over much of the two heavily industrialised regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, also known as Donbas. Fierce battles in 2014-2015 ended with one third of the regions' territory, its most urbanised part, occupied by two Russian proxy statelets, the self-described Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics. https://www.crisisgroup.org/content/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual-explainer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, ALF said: What did Trump do while in office for Ukraine? You can't be serious? Trump tried to intervene in the Ukrainian corruption gravy train. But when we said he would send them aid, on the condition that they'd clean up their act....Nancy and her clown car impeached him for asking! Were you taking a nap that year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You can't be serious? Trump tried to intervene in the Ukrainian corruption gravy train. But when we said he would send them aid, on the condition that they'd clean up their act....Nancy and her clown car impeached him for asking! Were you taking a nap that year? What a lazy, inaccurate answer when you Google the actual articles of impeachment in about a minute. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 Quote The new package includes 11 Mi-17 helicopters that had been earmarked for Afghanistan before the U.S.-backed government collapsed last year. It also includes 18 155mm howitzers, along with 40,000 artillery rounds, counter-artillery radars, 200 armored personnel carriers and 300 additional "Switchblade" drones. This was the first time howitzers have been provided Biden admin sending more aid. Big howitzers! That’s a big deal. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-announces-additional-800-million-military-aid-ukraine-2022-04-13/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Coffeesforclosers said: What a lazy, inaccurate answer when you Google the actual articles of impeachment in about a minute. Ha ha! Sure let’s ask Adam Schiff what ANY of that was actually about. Maybe he can tell us who his secret whistleblower was while we’re at it. Unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said: What a lazy, inaccurate answer when you Google the actual articles of impeachment in about a minute. We'll see, now that they're finally taking idiot boy's laptop seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, Doc said: We'll see, now that they're finally taking idiot boy's laptop seriously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 4 hours ago, sherpa said: I have no idea. I have a pretty good idea... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 14, 2022 Author Share Posted April 14, 2022 11 hours ago, B-Man said: Maybe Hillary’s emails are on it The stupid crap you guys go on about. Did you see Jared Kushner made Billions from the Saudis? Now the6 are keeping oil prices high. Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Maybe Hillary’s emails are on it The stupid crap you guys go on about. Did you see Jared Kushner made Billions from the Saudis? Now the6 are keeping oil prices high. Hmmmm You literally have no idea what any of these stories are about, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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