Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[aristocrat]

 

[aristocrat]

16 hours ago, BillStime said:

Lie lie lie lie lie lie lie

 

 

 

Don't you find it funny that they reviewed all the docs and the only one they found to be altered was the Russian deaths document?  Everything else they say is legit but the doc with the Russian deaths is altered?  You don't find that the least bit curious? The one doc that could hurt the support for the war? Interesting

[Tommy Callahan]

18 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Where to draw the line on what should be allowed is tough. But I would hope we could agree to draw it to disallow paid agents of a foreign intelligence service. 

Assuming you are cool with domestic media being full of domestic agents?

 

Jamal Khashoggi?

 

Middle East Eye?  Where do they get funding from?

 

Middle East Eye - Wikipedia

 

Did the funding he received from Quatar automatically equate to him being a spy for quatar?  an agent?  

 

But you bring up a great question and would be interested if any of our media sources have employees that also work for other countries state news?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Chris farley

[Roundybout]

 

 

TIL our troops sound like Boris from Rocky and Bullwinkle

[L Ron Burgundy]

41 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

 

TIL our troops sound like Boris from Rocky and Bullwinkle

This has to be a faked fake....it's hilarious if not.

[Roundybout]

15 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

This has to be a faked fake....it's hilarious if not.

 

Beats me, I just found it very funny. 

[ChiGoose]

20 minutes ago, L Ron Burgundy said:

This has to be a faked fake....it's hilarious if not.

I’m not sure. These guys are not the evil geniuses that we sometimes think they are. 
 

At the start of the war, there was a picture that allegedly showed a Ukrainian apartment with a Nazi shirt, some other things and three copies of the game The Sims. 
 

Turns out that it looks like the order was to take pictures with Nazi stuff and SIM cards to frame the Ukrainians and the morons screwed it up. 

[aristocrat]

2 hours ago, Roundybout said:

 

 

TIL our troops sound like Boris from Rocky and Bullwinkle

these are the guys you say hijacked an election?

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

these are the guys you say hijacked an election?

No, they didn’t hijack the election. They tried to influence it. 
 

Fairly significant difference.

[aristocrat]

9 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

No, they didn’t hijack the election. They tried to influence it. 
 

Fairly significant difference.

not according to some of your people in there 

[Tommy Callahan]

9 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

No, they didn’t hijack the election. They tried to influence it. 
 

Fairly significant difference.

Crazy when you look at who they targeted and what narrative used.

 

According to Vox, the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) focused on the culture of Muslims, Christians, Texas, and LGBTQ people, to engage those communities as part of a broader strategy to deepen social and political divisions within the U.S., but no other group received as much attention as Black Americans,[47] whose voter turnout has been historically crucial to the election of Democrats. Russia's influence campaign used an array of tactics aiming to reduce their vote for Hillary Clinton, according to a December 2018 report (The Tactics & Tropes of the Internet Research Agency)[151] commissioned by the Senate Intelligence Committee.[48]

A total 30 Facebook pages targeting Black Americans and 10 YouTube channels that posted 571 videos related to police violence against African-Americans.[152] The covertly Russian Instagram account @blackstagram had more than 300,000 followers.[48] A variety of Facebook pages targeting African Americans and later determined to be Russian amassed a total of 1.2 million individual followers, the report found.[48] The Facebook page for (the Russian) Blacktivist, garnered more hits than Black Lives Matter's (non-Russian) Facebook page.[82]

Influence operations included recruiting typically unknowing assets who would stage events and spread content from Russian influencers, spreading videos of police abuse and spreading misleading information about how to vote and whom to vote for.[82][48] The attempt to target Black Americans has been compared to the KGB's attempt to foster racial tensions during Operation INFEKTION.

 

And hacked into the election infrastructure and said it could happen again in 2020.  

 

A 2019 report by the Senate Intelligence Committee[159] found "an unprecedented level of activity against state election infrastructure" by Russian intelligence in 2016.[160] The activity occurred in "all 50 states" and is thought by "many officials and experts" to have been "a trial run ... to probe American defenses and identify weaknesses in the vast back-end apparatus—voter-registration operations, state and local election databases, electronic poll books and other equipment" of state election systems.[161] The report warned that the United States "remains vulnerable" in the 2020 election.[160]

Of "particular concern" to the committee report was the Russians' hacking of three companies "that provide states with the back-end systems that have increasingly replaced the thick binders of paper used to verify voters' identities and registration status."

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

NATO Agrees Ukraine Will Become a Member
Newsweek ^ | April 21, 2023 | Isabel van Brugen

 

All NATO members have agreed that Ukraine will eventually join the military alliance, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg announced on Friday.

Stoltenberg's statement to reporters came ahead of the 11th meeting of the Ukrainian Defense Group at the Ramstein Air Base in Germany. However, Stoltenberg fell short of offering a timeline on when Ukraine could become a member of NATO and said the main focus now is to ensure the country prevails in the ongoing conflict with Russia.

 

In September 2022, Ukraine announced a bid for fast-track membership of NATO after Russian President Vladimir Putin said Moscow had annexed four Ukrainian regions partially controlled by Russia. Should Ukraine become a member of the military alliance, NATO would be obligated to take action to defend it against Russia in the ongoing war.

 

(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.com ...https://www.newsweek.com/nato-agrees-ukraine-member-alliance-stoltenberg-zelensky-1795816

 

 

.

[ChiGoose]

2 hours ago, Chris farley said:

Crazy when you look at who they targeted and what narrative used.

 

According to Vox, the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) focused on the culture of Muslims, Christians, Texas, and LGBTQ people, to engage those communities as part of a broader strategy to deepen social and political divisions within the U.S., but no other group received as much attention as Black Americans,[47] whose voter turnout has been historically crucial to the election of Democrats. Russia's influence campaign used an array of tactics aiming to reduce their vote for Hillary Clinton, according to a December 2018 report (The Tactics & Tropes of the Internet Research Agency)[151] commissioned by the Senate Intelligence Committee.[48]

A total 30 Facebook pages targeting Black Americans and 10 YouTube channels that posted 571 videos related to police violence against African-Americans.[152] The covertly Russian Instagram account @blackstagram had more than 300,000 followers.[48] A variety of Facebook pages targeting African Americans and later determined to be Russian amassed a total of 1.2 million individual followers, the report found.[48] The Facebook page for (the Russian) Blacktivist, garnered more hits than Black Lives Matter's (non-Russian) Facebook page.[82]

Influence operations included recruiting typically unknowing assets who would stage events and spread content from Russian influencers, spreading videos of police abuse and spreading misleading information about how to vote and whom to vote for.[82][48] The attempt to target Black Americans has been compared to the KGB's attempt to foster racial tensions during Operation INFEKTION.

 

And hacked into the election infrastructure and said it could happen again in 2020.  

 

A 2019 report by the Senate Intelligence Committee[159] found "an unprecedented level of activity against state election infrastructure" by Russian intelligence in 2016.[160] The activity occurred in "all 50 states" and is thought by "many officials and experts" to have been "a trial run ... to probe American defenses and identify weaknesses in the vast back-end apparatus—voter-registration operations, state and local election databases, electronic poll books and other equipment" of state election systems.[161] The report warned that the United States "remains vulnerable" in the 2020 election.[160]

Of "particular concern" to the committee report was the Russians' hacking of three companies "that provide states with the back-end systems that have increasingly replaced the thick binders of paper used to verify voters' identities and registration status."

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Russia tried to interfere in the election and they managed to hack some voter registries. However, despite what Occupy Democrats and similar groups might claim, they did not hack the election itself in any real sense. There is no evidence that they were able to change votes in the system. They may have persuaded voters, but they did not change any votes that had been cast. 
 

You can make a plausible argument that but for the Russian interference, Hillary would have won, but in an election that close, any one of numerous things could have changed the outcome. Personally, the head of the FBI violating policy to publicly comment on an investigation probably had a more acute effect. 

[Tommy Callahan]

3 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Yep. Russia tried to interfere in the election and they managed to hack some voter registries. However, despite what Occupy Democrats and similar groups might claim, they did not hack the election itself in any real sense. There is no evidence that they were able to change votes in the system. They may have persuaded voters, but they did not change any votes that had been cast. 
 

You can make a plausible argument that but for the Russian interference, Hillary would have won, but in an election that close, any one of numerous things could have changed the outcome. Personally, the head of the FBI violating policy to publicly comment on an investigation probably had a more acute effect. 

The first part was from Vox, the second was the senate intelligence report.

 

Not Occupy Democrats or any other shady PAC.

 

the last part is interesting as that's the rights argument for the 50-intelligence letter and FBI/DOJ statements on the hunter laptop, prior to the election in 2020.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius]

 

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

What’s the line? “I have one word for you….plastics…enough said” 😉

[Coffeesforclosers]

 

 

China’s ambassador to France, Lu Shaye, said former Soviet republics have no “effective status” in international law

 

Quote

In an interview with French network TF1, Lu Shaye, China’s ambassador to France, said former Soviet republics have no “effective status” in international law.

“In international law, even these ex-Soviet Union countries do not have the status, the effective status in international law, because there is no international agreement to materialise their status of a sovereign country,” Lu said, in an interview broadcast on Friday.

 

Well that's quite a mouthful of foot Lu Shaye had there.  Unless of course he just said China's quiet part out loud.

 

 

[BillsFanNC]

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Maybe we shouldn't be giving so many details ?

 

 

 

Click on.

 

.

[B-Man]

 

 

Yeah, the political implications for the administration ARE the most important things.

 

 

Biden’s team fears the aftermath of a failed Ukrainian counteroffensive (biden regime setting expectations)
Politico ^ | 4/24/23 | Jonathan Lemire and Alexander Ward

 

The Biden administration is quietly preparing for the possibility that if Ukraine’s spring counteroffensive falls short of expectations, critics at home and allies abroad will argue that America has come up short, too.

 

Ukraine’s ever-imminent counteroffensive will attempt to retake Russian-seized territory most likely in the east and south, though for operational reasons no senior officials from Kyiv have detailed specifics.

 

Publicly, President Joe Biden’s team has offered unwavering support for Ukraine, pledging to load it up with weapons and economic aid for “as long as it takes.” But, if the impending fighting season yields limited gains, administration officials have expressed privately they fear being faced with a two-headed monster attacking it from the hawkish and dovish ends of the spectrum.

 

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...  https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-counteroffensive-defense-00093384

[Coffeesforclosers]

China Walks Back Diplomat’s Apparent Questioning of Ex-Soviet States’ Independence.

 

I really did think for a second that they would just double down.

 

 

[B-Man]

We have ceded our world position.

 

China's Xi holds first call with Ukraine's Zelenskiy since Russian invasion (peace talks?)
Reuters ^ | 4-26-23

 

Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke by telephone on Wednesday Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskiy for the first time since Russia's invasion of Ukraine last year, after months of pressure from Kyiv for such talks.

 

Xi told Zelenskiy that China would send special representatives to Ukraine and hold talks with all parties seeking peace, Chinese state media reported.

 

Xi, the most powerful world leader to have refrained from denouncing Russia's invasion of Ukraine, made a state visit to Russia last month. Since February, he has promoted a 12-point peace plan for Ukraine, greeted with scepticism from the West but cautiously welcomed by Kyiv.

 

 

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ..https://www.reuters.com/world/chinas-xi-says-he-will-send-representatives-ukraine-hold-talks-crisis-2023-04-26/

 

 

 

.

[B-Man]

 

 

Imagine that, no one wants a long war.

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Man, this guy.  🙄

 

 

 

[reddogblitz]

On 4/26/2023 at 6:51 AM, B-Man said:

We have ceded our world position.

 

China's Xi holds first call with Ukraine's Zelenskiy since Russian invasion (peace talks?)
Reuters ^ | 4-26-23

 

Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke by telephone on Wednesday Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskiy for the first time since Russia's invasion of Ukraine last year, after months of pressure from Kyiv for such talks.

 

Xi told Zelenskiy that China would send special representatives to Ukraine and hold talks with all parties seeking peace, Chinese state media reported.

 

Xi, the most powerful world leader to have refrained from denouncing Russia's invasion of Ukraine, made a state visit to Russia last month. Since February, he has promoted a 12-point peace plan for Ukraine, greeted with scepticism from the West but cautiously welcomed by Kyiv.

 

 

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ..https://www.reuters.com/world/chinas-xi-says-he-will-send-representatives-ukraine-hold-talks-crisis-2023-04-26/

 

 

 

.

 

This is what we should be doing instead of what we are doing.

 

The only winners will be General Dynamics/Lockhead/Bell Helicopter/whoever makes those tanks.  That's why we're doing what we're doing.

 

On 4/26/2023 at 8:19 AM, B-Man said:

 

 

Imagine that, no one wants a long war.

 

 

 

 

 

Not to worry. Once they start to run out of soldiers, President Biden will send them some of ours.  Whatever it takes.

[Roundybout]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:44 AM, reddogblitz said:

 

This is what we should be doing instead of what we are doing.

 

The only winners will be General Dynamics/Lockhead/Bell Helicopter/whoever makes those tanks.  That's why we're doing what we're doing.

 

 

Not to worry. Once they start to run out of soldiers, President Biden will send them some of ours.  Whatever it takes.

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

I hope he helps.  Can't hurt.  Go Frank!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-war-on-ukraine-latest-pope-says-vatican-involved-in-secret-ukraine-peace-mission/ar-AA1ayXYn

[Tiberius]

❤️

 

 

[sherpa]

US officials should refuse any contact with Russian "journalists" until they release the Journal's Gershkovich.

[B-Man]

6 hours ago, sherpa said:

US officials should refuse any contact with Russian "journalists" until they release the Journal's Gershkovich.

 

 

[Tiberius]

Putin Grooms Russians for Defeat in Leaked Crisis ‘Manual’

 

After spending the last year reassuring Russians that victory is inevitable in the war against Ukraine, the Kremlin is now frantically working to lower expectations—and rolling out a contingency plan to lessen the impact of a humiliating defeat.

A new manual prepared by Russia’s presidential administration and distributed to the Kremlin’s army of propagandists contains some surprising instructions: Do not “underestimate” Ukraine’s impending counter-offensive and do not spread the idea that Kyiv is somehow “not ready” for it.

 

That’s according to the independent news outlet Meduza, which says it obtained a fresh copy of the manual and spoke to sources close to the Kremlin about it.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-grooms-russians-for-defeat-in-leaked-crisis-manual/ar-AA1aDCv8

[Tommy Callahan]

40 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Putin Grooms Russians for Defeat in Leaked Crisis ‘Manual’

 

After spending the last year reassuring Russians that victory is inevitable in the war against Ukraine, the Kremlin is now frantically working to lower expectations—and rolling out a contingency plan to lessen the impact of a humiliating defeat.

A new manual prepared by Russia’s presidential administration and distributed to the Kremlin’s army of propagandists contains some surprising instructions: Do not “underestimate” Ukraine’s impending counter-offensive and do not spread the idea that Kyiv is somehow “not ready” for it.

 

That’s according to the independent news outlet Meduza, which says it obtained a fresh copy of the manual and spoke to sources close to the Kremlin about it.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-grooms-russians-for-defeat-in-leaked-crisis-manual/ar-AA1aDCv8

As soon as Russia declared Meduza a foreign propaganda entity, they became more believable.

 

So the leaked documents talking about a spring offensive were factual?  

 

 

[ChiGoose]

15 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

As soon as Russia declared Meduza a foreign propaganda entity, they became more believable.

 

So the leaked documents talking about a spring offensive were factual?  

 

 

There has a been a lot of chatter about a spring offensive by Ukraine for months. While the details aren’t public, it’s widely assumed that it will happen. 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

There has a been a lot of chatter about a spring offensive by Ukraine for months. While the details aren’t public, it’s widely assumed that it will happen. 

I never heard a thing about it, till those documents were leaked.  

 

and if western/nato troops are involved, thats a huge move.  

 

 

[ChiGoose]

18 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

I never heard a thing about it, till those documents were leaked.  

 

and if western/nato troops are involved, thats a huge move.  

 

 

Then I have to suppose whatever media your consuming isn’t following the war.

 

As far as I can tell, Western / NATO troops are not going to be part of the offensive. They are training the Ukrainians but are not in combat roles.

 

There was a hubbub about NATO troops in Ukraine when those docs came out but to my recollection, they were there for embassy security, not to participate in combat. 

[Warcodered]

 

well that's embarrassing. 

[Tommy Callahan]

12 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

well that's embarrassing. 

Wouldn't even have this convo if we actually had accounting of what we buy and are sending 

[Coffeesforclosers]

12 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

well that's embarrassing. 

 

What a ***** moron. Next time he'll wise up and quote somebody from Russia Today!

 

But it's alright, it's not like he prepared his own briefing materials. Its just his staff that funnel unvetted propaganda to him, so he can repeat it live on camera. 

[Tiberius]

Quote

 

RIGA, Latvia — Russia on Wednesday accused Ukraine of staging a drone attack intended to hit the Kremlin residence and kill President Vladimir Putin, an electric allegation that could create justification for Russia to escalate its war in Ukraine.

Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia’s war in Ukraine.

The alleged assassination attempt, which could not be independently confirmed, was made in a statement shared by the Kremlin press service with Russian state news agencies on Wednesday afternoon. “Tonight, the Kyiv regime attempted a drone strike on the Kremlin residence of the President of the Russian Federation. Two drones were aimed at the Kremlin,” the statement said.

“We regard these actions as a planned terrorist act and an attempt on the life of the president of the Russian Federation, carried out on the eve of Victory Day, the May 9 parade,” the Kremlin said, adding that Putin was not in the building at the time of the alleged attack.

 

 

Oh! THAT'S over the line, terrorist attack? Chutzpah! 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/03/vladimir-putin-attack-drones-kremlin/

[Tommy Callahan]

16 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 

Oh! THAT'S over the line, terrorist attack? Chutzpah! 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/03/vladimir-putin-attack-drones-kremlin/

Thats nuts.  if they were launched from Ukraine, they would have to have a 500 mile range.  

 

In all this BS aggression, never heard of Верховна Рада being struck.  

 

Putin will use this.