Fournette wasted opportunity.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, DrPJax said:

Being in Jax at the time he became available, I can tell you his press was terrible, his attitude was terrible, he was playing uninspired, W’as also having off field issues and he just looked like he really didn’t cRe about football at the time.  Got to give Him credit, he remade his image and he looks like the antithesis of the rb he was while in Jax!  I think that’s why so many teams passed on him. Honestly, I thought he was going to be out of the league very shortly. Just goes to show, the culture and right situation can make or break careers in the NFL!  Given the Bills lack of success until just now, he may not have turned his career around like he did at Tampa. I don’t blame the Bills for that choice , but not taking a 2000 yard back like dobbins who fell to you , going for a project like epenesa , sticking with two 3 rd round rbs from schools that don’t play nearly the competition dobbins played against, will continue to haunt them.  After dobbins recovers , epenesa ( where. You are supposed to see the biggest improvement from the first to second years , similar to Moss)  will continue to be a spot player and I just don’t see moss having the speed or the advertised power to become a special player. 

 

So missing on a player having proven issues in the NFL, is something I think was explainable.   Going back to back on 3 rd rd Rbs , passing on a proven 2000 yd rb who also is a good receiver for a dl falling down the board related to speed issues and still only sees spot duty is partly responsible for our lack of a viable running  game. I like Beane a lot as a good communicator, fairly good gm with a distinct vision , but his lack of addressing a true edge rusher ( groot has potential, not there yet) , sticking with the same o line that showed issues in last years afc championship loss, and under valuing the rb position are things I believe will keep us from being a bona fide SB contender this year. We might get there ,,,,but beating the Bucs who I believe will be from the nfc , looks impossible as we are still a mostly one dimensional team.   I hope he learns from this and has a better off season filling in those last parts. New England sure made up lots of ground in a year , so now he has more pressure than just addressing beating the Chiefs. 

Wow! This has to be one of the best posts I've read. Absolutely spot on and brutally honest. I look forward to seeing more of your input. It was a pleasure. Well said well done.👍

[Gugny]

14 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills had a chance to pick up Fournette. Easy to play armchair QB but I remember wanting the Bills to sign him. Instead the Bills are left with Moss, Motor, and Breida. None of these guys compare to Fournette. The Bills as many other teams whiffed on him. 

 

Other than the facts that Fournette is on the best offense in the NFL and that Singletary actually has better yards/attempt than Fournette, you are spot on.

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Other than the facts that Fournette is on the best offense in the NFL and that Singletary actually has better yards/attempt than Fournette, you are spot on.

Knowing what we know now, anyone that knows football would take Fournette over Singletary. So stop with the stats. 

[Gugny]

9 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Knowing what we know now, anyone that knows football would take Fournette over Singletary. So stop with the stats. 

 

Yeah, he really helped Jacksonville turn the corner.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The Bills had a chance to pick up Fournette. Easy to play armchair QB but I remember wanting the Bills to sign him. Instead the Bills are left with Moss, Motor, and Breida. None of these guys compare to Fournette. The Bills as many other teams whiffed on him. 

3 out of his first 4 years, he was sub 4.0 ypc.  He’s been a disappointment in his career.

[newcam2012]

34 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

3 out of his first 4 years, he was sub 4.0 ypc.  He’s been a disappointment in his career.

Who was his QB? What team did he play for? Paint the whole picture please. 

15 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Does the TB offensive line come with him?

No but the great Jacksonville team did. I believe he was being led by future hall of framer Blake Bortles. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by newcam2012

[PetermansRedemption]

Offensive line makes the running back, not the other way around. 

[1ManRaid]

10 minutes ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Offensive line makes the running back, not the other way around. 

 

DeMarco Murray was the best RB in football.....until he left Dallas.

[Gugny]

At least we didn't miss out on Mahomes!

[BuffaloBillyG]

36 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Who was his QB? What team did he play for? Paint the whole picture please. 

No but the great Jacksonville team did. I believe he was being led by future hall of framer Blake Bortles. 

His QB doesn't block for him. 

 

Over a 3 year span as their starter Bortles actually accounted 86TDs and 13,011 yards. More than enough production to take the heat off the running game.

 

The team also made an AFC Championship game (beating our Bills on the way.)

 

Paint the whole picture please.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 hours ago, DrPJax said:

Being in Jax at the time he became available, I can tell you his press was terrible, his attitude was terrible, he was playing uninspired, W’as also having off field issues and he just looked like he really didn’t cRe about football at the time.  Got to give Him credit, he remade his image and he looks like the antithesis of the rb he was while in Jax!  I think that’s why so many teams passed on him. Honestly, I thought he was going to be out of the league very shortly. Just goes to show, the culture and right situation can make or break careers in the NFL!  Given the Bills lack of success until just now, he may not have turned his career around like he did at Tampa. I don’t blame the Bills for that choice , but not taking a 2000 yard back like dobbins who fell to you , going for a project like epenesa , sticking with two 3 rd round rbs from schools that don’t play nearly the competition dobbins played against, will continue to haunt them.  After dobbins recovers , epenesa ( where. You are supposed to see the biggest improvement from the first to second years , similar to Moss)  will continue to be a spot player and I just don’t see moss having the speed or the advertised power to become a special player. 

 

So missing on a player having proven issues in the NFL, is something I think was explainable.   Going back to back on 3 rd rd Rbs , passing on a proven 2000 yd rb who also is a good receiver for a dl falling down the board related to speed issues and still only sees spot duty is partly responsible for our lack of a viable running  game. I like Beane a lot as a good communicator, fairly good gm with a distinct vision , but his lack of addressing a true edge rusher ( groot has potential, not there yet) , sticking with the same o line that showed issues in last years afc championship loss, and under valuing the rb position are things I believe will keep us from being a bona fide SB contender this year. We might get there ,,,,but beating the Bucs who I believe will be from the nfc , looks impossible as we are still a mostly one dimensional team.   I hope he learns from this and has a better off season filling in those last parts. New England sure made up lots of ground in a year , so now he has more pressure than just addressing beating the Chiefs. 

 

Dobbins isn't a 2000 yard back (i guess if you go by college, but Singletary had almost 2000 in college).  He had 800 in 2020, and blew out his knee this year.  He also only has 18 career catches.

 

If you're thinking of taylor, he was selected prior to Epenesa.  I like dobbins, but ravens have made running backs look good for years. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by dneveu

[Royale with Cheese]

51 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Who was his QB? What team did he play for? Paint the whole picture please. 

 

Last year his QB was Tom Brady.  Have you heard of him?  Well, Fournette was the back up RB last year to Ronald Jones.

Ronald Jones averaged 5.1 ypc and Fournette averaged 3.8 ypc.  

 

Not only that, Fournette was a healthy scratch during the season as well.

 

I'll just add in one last thing.... he was almost cut but then Ronald Jones his the Covid list.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/leonard-fournette-was-almost-cut-by-buccaneers-after-week-14-prior-to-epic-super-bowl-run-bruce-arians-says/

52 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

No but the great Jacksonville team did. I believe he was being led by future hall of framer Blake Bortles. 

 

3.8 ypc with future Hall of Famer Tom Brady.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[Solomon Grundy]

Fournette looked good yesterday

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Last year his QB was Tom Brady.  Have you heard of him?  Well, Fournette was the back up RB last year to Ronald Jones.

Ronald Jones averaged 5.1 ypc and Fournette averaged 3.8 ypc.  

 

Not only that, Fournette was a healthy scratch during the season as well.

 

I'll just add in one last thing.... he was almost cut but then Ronald Jones his the Covid list.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/leonard-fournette-was-almost-cut-by-buccaneers-after-week-14-prior-to-epic-super-bowl-run-bruce-arians-says/

 

3.8 ypc with future Hall of Famer Tom Brady.

You gotta factor in postseason. He had 64 carries for 300 yards over four postseason games last season (4.7 ypc) along with 18 catches for 182 yards (8.2 yards per reception). He also had four TDs over four games. Those are good numbers against top competition, and the sample size isn't small. He's basically picked up where he left off from last postseason. His regular season stats were bad though. He had 12 carries for 103 yards in the second game vs. Carolina, but the rest of the way did basically nothing. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by dave mcbride

[DrDawkinstein]

He was never coming here. He wasnt going to leave Florida/the Southeast.

[FlaFitz1]

19 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

You don't say???? 

And here in Buffalo with our oline he would look more like the Fournette in Jacksonville. 

 

Fix the line and Motor would look much more competitent 

 

 

 

This and I would add feature him the way Tampa is featured in TB.

 

Motor is averaging 4.7 ypc while Fournette is averaging 4.5

 

Motor has only 98 carries while Fournette has 139

 

If they had given Motor the ball only as much as Tampa gives it to Fournette - instead of unexplainably giving more snaps and carries to Moss - just the 4 extra carries per game they were giving Moss - Motor would have 655 yards.  That would make him 9th in the league among all backs - ahead of Fournette, Gordon III, Ekler, Gibson, Aaron Jones, Conner, Swift, Dillion....

 

 

 

 

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

His QB doesn't block for him. 

 

Over a 3 year span as their starter Bortles actually accounted 86TDs and 13,011 yards. More than enough production to take the heat off the running game.

 

The team also made an AFC Championship game (beating our Bills on the way.)

 

Paint the whole picture please.

They didn't make the playoffs and beat the Billa because of Bortels. He sucked pretty much the whole year and they won despite him. He couldn't pass for dog poop and hia legs were his best asset. The team won because of there defense and pounding the rock with Fournette. 

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

You gotta factor in postseason. He had 64 carries for 300 yards over four postseason games last season (4.7 ypc) along with 18 catches for 182 yards (8.2 yards per reception). He also had four TDs over four games. Those are good numbers against top competition, and the sample size isn't small. He's basically picked up where he left off from last postseason. His regular season stats were bad though. He had 12 carries for 103 yards in the second game vs. Carolina, but the rest of the way did basically nothing. 

Absolutely! Agree 100%. 

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, FlaFitz1 said:

 

 

 

This and I would add feature him the way Tampa is featured in TB.

 

Motor is averaging 4.7 ypc while Fournette is averaging 4.5

 

Motor has only 98 carries while Fournette has 139

 

If they had given Motor the ball only as much as Tampa gives it to Fournette - instead of unexplainably giving more snaps and carries to Moss - just the 4 extra carries per game they were giving Moss - Motor would have 655 yards.  That would make him 9th in the league among all backs - ahead of Fournette, Gordon III, Ekler, Gibson, Aaron Jones, Conner, Swift, Dillion....

 

 

 

 

Everyone wants to avoid how Singletary can't score touchdowns. The guy simple sucks at getting into the end zone. The stats don't lie. Fournette got 4 tds yesterday which equates to Singletary's career numbers. I guess it's no biggie to have your featured back score tds. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

They didn't make the playoffs and beat the Billa because of Bortels. He sucked pretty much the whole year and they won despite him. He couldn't pass for dog poop and hia legs were his best asset. The team won because of there defense and pounding the rock with Fournette. 

 

Fournette averaged 2.7 ypc against the Bills in the WC playoff game.

 

In the 2017 playoffs, Fournette:

2.7 ypc vs Bills

4.4 ypc vs the Steelers

3.2 ypc vs the Pats.

 

For the 2017 season, he averaged 3.9 ypc.

 

I checked to see if he was in the top voting for MVP that year...surprisingly he wasn't.  I can't believe it.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Everyone wants to avoid how Singletary can't score touchdowns. The guy simple sucks at getting into the end zone. The stats don't lie. Fournette got 4 tds yesterday which equates to Singletary's career numbers. I guess it's no biggie to have your featured back score tds. 

 

They guy was going to get cut last year by the Bucs until Ronald Jones was put on the covid list.  

He's a top 5 pick in the NFL, about to be let go by his 2nd team in 2 years....that's a bust.  He resigned for a  1 year deal with a little over $3 million.

 

So your stats don't lie but other stats brought up by other posters....they're lies?

[BuffaninSarasota]

A "wasted opportunity" because YOU wanted the Bills to go after him ?

[Mat68]

Reports had Buffalo as a team that was interested.  He wanted to play with Brady in Tampa.  

[Solomon Grundy]

On 11/28/2021 at 4:46 PM, newcam2012 said:

The Bills had a chance to pick up Fournette. Easy to play armchair QB but I remember wanting the Bills to sign him. Instead the Bills are left with Moss, Motor, and Breida. None of these guys compare to Fournette. The Bills as many other teams whiffed on him. 

I blame Shaq Lawson!! 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

They didn't make the playoffs and beat the Billa because of Bortels. He sucked pretty much the whole year and they won despite him. He couldn't pass for dog poop and hia legs were his best asset. The team won because of there defense and pounding the rock with Fournette. 

Absolutely! Agree 100%. 

Cool. Now tell the story of what happened the following week when they went to Pittsburgh. Paint the whole picture, remember?

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

They guy was going to get cut last year by the Bucs until Ronald Jones was put on the covid list.  

He's a top 5 pick in the NFL, about to be let go by his 2nd team in 2 years....that's a bust.  He resigned for a  1 year deal with a little over $3 million.

 

So your stats don't lie but other stats brought up by other posters....they're lies?

Stats don't tell the whole picture no matter what side you are leaning towards. There are so many other factors in play as others mentioned. 

1 hour ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

A "wasted opportunity" because YOU wanted the Bills to go after him ?

Wasted opportunity isn't the best of words. I think I was too strong on that comment. However, in real time I did want the Bills to go after him. As pointed out several factors may not have made it work. At the time, I was disappointed the Bills made no effort or seemingly so to sign him. 

1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Cool. Now tell the story of what happened the following week when they went to Pittsburgh. Paint the whole picture, remember?

Pitt was the superior team. No one expected the Jags to win. 

[Royale with Cheese]

11 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Stats don't tell the whole picture no matter what side you are leaning towards. There are so many other factors in play as others mentioned. 

Wasted opportunity isn't the best of words. I think I was too strong on that comment. However, in real time I did want the Bills to go after him. As pointed out several factors may not have made it work. At the time, I was disappointed the Bills made no effort or seemingly so to sign him. 

Pitt was the superior team. No one expected the Jags to win. 

 

Here's the bottom line.  He's had a sub 4.0 ypc in his career.  He was on a team loaded with offensive talent and the best QB of all time....he was about to get cut.  Teams aren't focusing on stopping the run when they play Brady, Gronk, Evans, Brown and Godwin.

That would have been the 2nd time being cut in 2 seasons.  Even Tampa thought he wasn't good enough and luckily covid hit the lockerroom.

 

He signs a 1 year a little over $3 million dollar contract.  You know who gets that type of money?  Washed up RB's like Frank Gore and LeSean McCoy...that's about what they signed for.  Christian McCaffrey gets cut after this year, do you think he signs that type of contract?  No, McCaffrey even with his injuries would still be more valuable than Fournette....significantly.

 

You don't know if the Bills went after him or not, they are buttoned up.  Even if they didn't, there shouldn't be any criticism for a RB whose production was below average.

 

[FlaFitz1]

15 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Everyone wants to avoid how Singletary can't score touchdowns. The guy simple sucks at getting into the end zone. The stats don't lie. Fournette got 4 tds yesterday which equates to Singletary's career numbers. I guess it's no biggie to have your featured back score tds. 

 

Before yesterday Fournette had 3 TDs on the season - Singletary has two.

 

Fournette gets the ball in the Redzone - The Bills would give it to Moss.

[DrPJax]

On 11/29/2021 at 9:02 AM, dneveu said:

 

Dobbins isn't a 2000 yard back (i guess if you go by college, but Singletary had almost 2000 in college).  He had 800 in 2020, and blew out his knee this year.  He also only has 18 career catches.

 

If you're thinking of taylor, he was selected prior to Epenesa.  I like dobbins, but ravens have made running backs look good for years. 

Was going by dobbins production the year he was drafted from Ohio state. Pretty sure he was close to 2 k rushing his senior year and over that with receiving.  He Was extremely productive as a Buckeye , power , speed , good receiver.  Not talking about his injury in the nfl, which he will recover from.  No comparison with his production and moss or singletary in college.  Ravens grabbed him within seconds when bills took epenesa.    Dobbins was just coming on, getting used more.  when his injury occurred. Pretty sure he was already being used more around the goal line and had more tds than motor who was taken e year before.  On the ravens he is in a crowded backfield situation as Lamar is a rb as well.  But coming out of  college , dobbins was listed as top or second back from that class and he was amazing with the buckeyes.  
 

 He would have been a perfect addtiion here , better rb, better receiver than motor and epenesa has logged about the same playing time with no injury happening.   Then we took moss with our third round pick.   Just saying , when he gets healthy , watch, he will be much more productive in the nfl than motor, moss, or epenesa.    We needed a power rb with good hands and speed and we passed him up for epenesa whom at this point is a marginal edge rusher.  His rookie season was a total failure.  Let’s compare them after next year as dobbins is fully recovered from injuury.   Dobbins was not being made a healthy scratch routinely before his  injury like moss and epenesa have experienced.

 

  Beane went by his board , took epenesa, next pick ravens took dobbins.  Epenesa is not a talented nfl player like dobbins will be. Singletsry and moss were taken in the 3 rd rounds for.reasons.   Not same level,of production in college careers and Beane has not valued the rb position ( or Daboll, and it’s been an issue making us more one dimensional, just look what brieda did with more speed and dobbins has very close to that same speed but Also has power )     My main issue is taking epenesa with dobbins sitting there and epenesa will never be used as much because of the line rotation. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Ronald Jones might be a solid free agent target next year to pair with a rookie.

[oldmanfan]

Teams could have traded up to get Allen.  Wasted opportunity.

 

Teams could have traded for Diggs and didn’t.  Wasted opportunity.

 

Every team in the league had multiple shots at drafting Brady and didn’t.  Wasted opportunity.  
 

I could keep this going for probably a month straight but do you get the point?

[without a drought]

Ralph is cheap.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

13 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Ronald Jones might be a solid free agent target next year to pair with a rookie.

 

I'd look at patterson.  Can take carries in backfield, and mckenzies role - returner if you want.  Will probably be more expensive but at least he fills a couple of holes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

To be honest, no great running back with a choice is going to choose to play for the Buffalo Bills until/unless we prove that

1) we can run block for him competently

2) we have a consistent commitment to a run game

[ExiledInIllinois]

On 11/28/2021 at 3:48 PM, No Place To Hyde said:

Does the TB offensive line come with him?

Sorry.  Tool only. 

 

57 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

To be honest, no great running back with a choice is going to choose to play for the Buffalo Bills until/unless we prove that

1) we can run block for him competently

2) we have a consistent commitment to a run game

 

Forgot #3. Fixed! 😉 

3) we build a dome downtown 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Hapless Bills Fan
remove text added to quote box

[Pokebball]

How many of you know where Fournette turned it around?

 

Some interesting trivia, given your fans out here at UW and Wyoming.

Wyoming's High Altitude Training Facility

[Victory Formation]

Running the ball is more predicated on the integrity of your OL and coaching schemes. Say what you wilt about Wyatt Teller but he has become an elite guard in Cleveland and Quinton Spain has done well for himself in Cincinnati. Both of these guys are superior to Ike Boettger, Feliciano and Ford. Why were they let go? Why are they having compelling success elsewhere?

 

I also vehemently disagree with the fact that we went into the season with what we had at TE and FB. Knox is the only good one in the bunch. Ertz should have been traded for or Hollister should have been retained at the very least. Keeping 7 WRs was a mistake, it vastly hurt our running game. We now find ourselves with the inability to run in goal line and short yardage situations. Twin TE packages, big formations and goal line formations have suffered as a result, which obviously has put an enormous amount of pressure on Josh Allen, more than there needs to be anyways.

 

As far as RB goes, I am neither for nor against one in the 1st or 2nd round, but I am ultimately aware that one should not be taken unless your OL is resolved and the idea of extending one past the length of their rookie contract makes me nauseous. Taking a RB that high should be the final piece, the missing piece or the cherry on top the sundae. Put a good RB behind a bad OL and he’s going to break down very quick.