Josh Allen is looking a lot more like the 2019 version

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Real McNasty said:

Can easily say the Oline is playing in 2019 form as well. 

 

I guess it doesn't matter we played 2 top 4 Defensive units from last year either. 

 

Josh will be fine.

 

TBH at times they seem more like 2018

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Bangarang said:

Does it have to be 8 games?

No but it does have to be more then 2 or 3 games. 

 

Last season Allen started on fire and so did our offense and then Allen got dinged and we had four average/bad offensive games in a row.  Arizona was a tipping point then the offense got hot for the rest of the season. The point is that a 17 game season is a marathon not a sprint.

 

 

[Bruffalo]

8 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Does it have to be 8 games? What about 5, 6 or even 7 games? 

Yes, it has to be a not insignificant amount of games to determine a trend. Why does that even need to be said?

 

You can make assumptions about his play and extrapolate, but you're just going on feelings. I don't think it's worth it to jump to conclusions.  You can be concerned, but to say definitively that he's regressed or that this is a trend is just guessing.

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

Yes, it has to be a not insignificant amount of games to determine a trend. Why does that even need to be said?

 

You can make assumptions about his play and extrapolate, but you're just going on feelings. I don't think it's worth it to jump to conclusions.  You can be concerned, but to say definitively that he's regressed or that this is a trend is just guessing.

You say yes, the other guy says no.

 

What assumptions am I making? Also, I never definitively said he regressed or that it’s a trend. 

[Bruffalo]

Just now, Bangarang said:

You say yes, the other guy says no.

 

What assumptions am I making? Also, I never definitively said he regressed or that it’s a trend. 

Fair enough.  I apologize.

[Bangarang]

Just now, Bruffalo said:

Fair enough.  I apologize.

My only point is that through the first two games our passing attack is clearly much worse than what we saw last year. We brought back 10 starters and had no changes to the coaching staff. What’s the problem? Why does Josh look like a rookie caught in headlights at times? Part of that is the o-line, clearly. But what’s the solution?

 

It doesn’t mean this is how things are going to be all year, but things obviously need to get a lot better. If they don’t, we aren’t going to be very successful. 

[Bruffalo]

6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

My only point is that through the first two games our passing attack is clearly much worse than what we saw last year. We brought back 10 starters and had no changes to the coaching staff. What’s the problem? Why does Josh look like a rookie caught in headlights at times? Part of that is the o-line, clearly. But what’s the solution?

 

It doesn’t mean this is how things are going to be all year, but things obviously need to get a lot better. If they don’t, we aren’t going to be very successful. 

I agree with everything you say, I just think that we have a lot of time to figure it out, and I'm confident we will figure it out.  We did it last year, we have the pieces, I think we'll right the ship. 

 

I definitely think it's way too early for a lot of the doom/gloom that's been around the fanbase during the game and I think even this thread is crazy premature.

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

This has nothing to do with fantasy or style points. Simply dismissing how our offense looks and blindly saying it’s good enough to win a SB is simply naive. Inefficiency with the passing game is not a sustainable model of winning that you can rely on to take you deep into the playoffs or win a SB. 
 

If it was, we probably would’ve just kept Tyrod.

   

    I have never said that I'm dismissing that the offense hasn't met what my expectations were after the brief look we got in preseason it surely looked like it would be a continuous Josh Allen MVP show.  However as a longtime Bills fan, unlike what appears to be lack of coaching adjustments, I have adjusted my season expectations to whatever it takes to win as a team.  The lose against Steelers  was a team lose as Miami win is a team win not a Josh win where he was the mvp of game.  Even though the team won on all offensive scores, only the xps to be possibly considered ST points no defensive scores so posting the shutout only guaranteed a tie if the offense didn't do its part.

 

     So yes a team playing complementary will get you far and is sustainable when its a focus which I'd expect to be high on the list of do's and don'ts in the process guidelines.  

 

     Of course Tyrod could win games if the defense kept posting shutouts like today.   However part of the reason I think the defense plays as well is they know that they don't have to be perfect all the time as we can easily say Josh carried the team last year in games where the defense didn't do its share a handful of times.  I don't know if Tyrods not risking TOs and not trusting his wrs would inspire the defense as well as Josh and his play style does.  That's cause Josh playing 2020 style is fun to watch even other players (Sanders) were tuning in to  watch bills highlights taking notice.  Tyrod not so much, though he did play pretty much turnover free football that would complement any strong defense.  Josh basically flipped the Bills being a top destination for where a top FA wr would want to sign.  Think Antonio Brown would refuse playing for bills now if his holdout and subsequent  drama unfolded post Josh 2020. I think he'd have been on first flight into buffalo if that happened.  

 

[buffaloboyinATL]

We have to consider the Defenses.  Played 2 tough ones to start and next week won’t be any better. Then it will ease up a bit. 

[Buffalo Junction]

57 minutes ago, Process said:

Before the Steelers game, all the talk on Steelers forums was how bad their secondary is and how Allen is going to tear them apart. They all thought we would destroy them. 

 

But we lose and Allen plays like crap and Bills fans want to say it's because the Steelers have the best defense in the league. 

 

Their defense is not one of the best in the league. The Steelers are not a good team. Derek Carr just went for 400 and a win against them in Pittsburgh. 

 

Time to face reality... Allen has been bad and needs to get it together quick. 

The Raiders didn’t play the same Steelers defense. Watt, Bush, Haden, and Alualu all left the game. That said…
 

Fully agree that Allen and the offense hasn’t played well, and they need to find a solution to their woes. Unfortunately, it may be that the largest part of this offenses issues are poor guard play and Dawkins not being fully recovered from Covid. As for Allen, he needs to get on the same page with his receivers and start connecting on at least the gimmie passes. 

[buffaloboyinATL]

6 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

The Raiders just put up 26 in a win against the Steelers.

 

If the Raiders can do it we shouldn't have any excuses. 

TJ Watt left game with an injury. Different Defense without him. 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

The Raiders just put up 26 in a win against the Steelers.

 

If the Raiders can do it we shouldn't have any excuses. 

You simply can't compare week to week games in the NFL.  Transitive properties don't apply to football.

 

 

 

 

[US Egg]

Ostriching on Allen's play seems popular.

 

Hopefully, he can pull his head out of the ground, soon.

[GoBills!]

The play calling scares me more than Josh. I am not seeing them utilizing the middle of the field and short routes by Beasley and Davis. 
 

When we get rolling and we have those plays clicking I know it’s game over. I haven’t seen that this year. Lots of plays outside the hash marks but not much over the middle and short.

[Bangarang]

25 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

   

    I have never said that I'm dismissing that the offense hasn't met what my expectations were after the brief look we got in preseason it surely looked like it would be a continuous Josh Allen MVP show.  However as a longtime Bills fan, unlike what appears to be lack of coaching adjustments, I have adjusted my season expectations to whatever it takes to win as a team.  The lose against Steelers  was a team lose as Miami win is a team win not a Josh win where he was the mvp of game.  Even though the team won on all offensive scores, only the xps to be possibly considered ST points no defensive scores so posting the shutout only guaranteed a tie if the offense didn't do its part.

 

     So yes a team playing complementary will get you far and is sustainable when its a focus which I'd expect to be high on the list of do's and don'ts in the process guidelines.  

 

     Of course Tyrod could win games if the defense kept posting shutouts like today.   However part of the reason I think the defense plays as well is they know that they don't have to be perfect all the time as we can easily say Josh carried the team last year in games where the defense didn't do its share a handful of times.  I don't know if Tyrods not risking TOs and not trusting his wrs would inspire the defense as well as Josh and his play style does.  That's cause Josh playing 2020 style is fun to watch even other players (Sanders) were tuning in to  watch bills highlights taking notice.  Tyrod not so much, though he did play pretty much turnover free football that would complement any strong defense.  Josh basically flipped the Bills being a top destination for where a top FA wr would want to sign.  Think Antonio Brown would refuse playing for bills now if his holdout and subsequent  drama unfolded post Josh 2020. I think he'd have been on first flight into buffalo if that happened.  

 

As a long time fan you’d probably have it figured out by now that if you can’t reliably throw the ball and put up points, you aren’t likely to have any kind of sustained success. 
 

Is it really a coincidence that once we finally had a prolific passing offense we put up a bunch of points, win 13 games and make it to the AFC Championship game?
 

Giving vague and cliche slogans like “it’s a team game” is all well and good if but there are obviously problems with the offense that don’t get us where we want to go. Do you think Josh is going to watch the film from today and not seriously critique how poorly he played at times? 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Bangarang

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 minute ago, I am the egg man said:

Ostriching on Allen's play seems popular.

 

Hopefully, he can pull his head out of the ground, soon.

He is out of synch a bit this year compared to last, which I attribute in part to figuring out how Sanders fits in. But he still makes plays most QB’s can’t or wouldn’t dare try.  That doesn’t mean we have our heads in the sand, it means we trust what we’ve seen enough to know he will get  better as the season goes on. 

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

He is out of synch a bit this year compared to last, which I attribute in part to figuring out how Sanders fits in. But he still makes plays most QB’s can’t or wouldn’t dare try.  That doesn’t mean we have our heads in the sand, it means we trust what we’ve seen enough to know he will get  better as the season goes on. 

10 starters returned. No coaching or scheme changes. But it’s  getting in sync with Sanders that is part of the issue? I don’t buy that for a second.  

[billybob71]

Allen sucks Bills suck on to next year, no but seriously NFL is a week to week match up league. Allen could very well come out next week and throw for 350 and 4 tds, then the "he is back" talk will commence.  EVERY QB in the history of the NFL has had up and down weeks but the key is even on his "down" weeks Bills are usually competitive and still have a chance to win. Allen's worse days are still miles better than every QB we have had since Kelly, and hell even Kelly had some brutal games, its the NFL the other team has good players and coaches too.

Edited September 20, 2021 by billybob71
fix error

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Weatherman said:

How’d he do against the Dolphins and Steelers last year?  He’s regressed this year so far and it’s not disputable. 

Not well in the Steelers game. And the first game against the Dolphins was really close.

[Nelius]

He was statistically better through two games last season but I definitely remember similar conversations about people still doubting him through the first two weeks last year, particularly after the first Jets game. All the way through Week 7 really, many were ready to kick him to the curb after the Titans game, more after the Chiefs loss the next week. So maybe just maybe he'll pick things up a bit.

[Bangarang]

15 minutes ago, MJS said:

Not well in the Steelers game. And the first game against the Dolphins was really close.

Allen was great in the game though 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But it's only been two games.  If Allen and the offense are still playing like this after 8 games then yea we have a problem and we're not winning the SB this year. But after only two games - I'm not concerned.

 

 

I'm concerned because the issues he had pre draft and his rookie season are apparent again. He isn't seeing the field, very inaccurate, seems to have lost confidence, and his foot work is poor. Not sure how as a fan it's not concerning? How can anyone not be thinking last season might be an anomaly? It's pretty rare that franchise Qbs have  several poor games in a row. He hasn't played well since the Indy game. Its the "big elephant" in the room that no one wants to honestly confront. 

 

[Figster]

27 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

10 starters returned. No coaching or scheme changes. But it’s  getting in sync with Sanders that is part of the issue? I don’t buy that for a second.  

Most of the starters had very little game play through the preseason. What are you suggesting? Allens regressing? Getting the O into the right plays to succeed including run plays is a big part of a QB's job. Buffalo won 35 - 0 and Josh Allen ran the O that accomplished it. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Watched back some of the game. Made me less worried about Josh. The Fins played mostly man and were like glue on our receivers. Lot of guys covered and with very little separation. Josh missed on some open throws— but for the most part, the coverage was very good. I think their normal “man beaters,” like WR screens, weren’t clicking as much. 
 

I am sure there are some throws that Josh can work on or that he would like back. But he also threw some absolute dimes (the long throw to Sanders on the second TD drive; the throw against his body rolling left for a first down inside the ten to Diggs; and both of his TD throws). 

Not sure what game you watched. Allen played poorly. He missed several throws, was very inaccurate, was fortunate not to have several picks, stared down receivers, threw off his back foot, etc. He was 17-33 for 179 yards. 2 tds and 1 not. Maybe I'm lost...

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

My only point is that through the first two games our passing attack is clearly much worse than what we saw last year. We brought back 10 starters and had no changes to the coaching staff. What’s the problem? Why does Josh look like a rookie caught in headlights at times? Part of that is the o-line, clearly. But what’s the solution?

 

It doesn’t mean this is how things are going to be all year, but things obviously need to get a lot better. If they don’t, we aren’t going to be very successful. 

Finally someone who isn't afraid to say what he sees! Thank you. It's crazy how honest assessments of poor play gets criticized here. You get branded a hater or a troll. I never get that. I think its ok to criticize and praise when appropriate. Right now, Allen deserves the criticism. 

[WideNine]

 

With a good defense, Allen just needs to do enough to win games and avoid things that make teams lose games.

 

Brady over his career averaged around 260 Y/G but is one of the most successful QBs to play the game. Much of that is his efficiency (and a fair bit of preferential treatment by officials over the years) combined with solid defenses. NE was also pretty good about getting up on teams early and playing keep away. Gaudy QB stats alone do not win games, if they did then Deshawn Watson, Matt Ryan, and Kirk Cousins would not have been on sub-500 teams last season.

 

Allen and this offense need to be efficient. Strike when they are in the red zone, avoid turnovers and poor field position and they will win most games.

 

Until OBD gets some better talent on the o-line that allow deeper options to open up for Allen, running the ball and hitting quicker passes underneath to avoid the jail breaks will be necessary. I do like how Knox is starting so show up and make plays in the seams and behind those defensive shell looks... TE has been a missing element for this offense.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by WideNine

[newcam2012]

51 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

10 starters returned. No coaching or scheme changes. But it’s  getting in sync with Sanders that is part of the issue? I don’t buy that for a second.  

Me either. It's called regression. Jate that dirty word. 

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Not sure what game you watched. Allen played poorly. He missed several throws, was very inaccurate, was fortunate not to have several picks, stared down receivers, threw off his back foot, etc. He was 17-33 for 179 yards. 2 tds and 1 not. Maybe I'm lost...

Poorly in a 35 zip shutout. Really.  Several picks eh, 

 

I don't think we are watching the same game... 

[newcam2012]

9 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

This is right on target.

 

I tried telling everyone we should wait at least 10 games before extending Allen.

 

Now if last season turns out to be a fluke were pretty much *****. 

Thanks. 

[Figster]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Me either. It's called regression. Jate that dirty word. 

Its called rusty, lol

 

Good grief

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

With a good defense, Allen just needs to do enough to win games and avoid things that make teams lose games.

 

Brady over his career averaged around 260 Y/G but is one of the most successful QBs to play the game. Much of that is his efficiency (and a fair bit of preferential treatment by officials over the years) combined with solid defenses. NE was also pretty good about getting up on teams early and playing keep away. Gaudy QB stats alone do not win games, if they did then Deshawn Watson, Matt Ryan, and Kirk Cousins would not have been on sub-500 teams last season.

 

Allen and this offense need to be efficient. Strike when they are in the red zone, avoid turnovers and poor field position and they will win most games. Until OBD gets some better talent on the o-line that allow deeper options to open up for Allen, running the ball and hitting quicker passes underneath to avoid the jail breaks will be necessary. I do like how Knox is starting so show up and make plays in the seams and behind those defensive shell looks... TE has been a missing element for this offense.

 

 

 

 

The Bills didn't make Allen the highest paid QB to be a game manager. 

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Me either. It's called regression. Hate that dirty word. 

 

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Its called rusty, lol

 

Good grief

I'm speechless.

[Figster]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

The Bills didn't make Allen the highest paid QB to be a game manager. 

Whats Mahomes excuse in a loss tonight? I think he makes a little more.

[newcam2012]

Just now, Figster said:

Whats Mahomes excuse in a loss tonight? I think he makes a little more.

Ignorance is bliss. 

[WideNine]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

The Bills didn't make Allen the highest paid QB to be a game manager. 

 

Yet all great QBs are in fact very good "game managers". That term is overly used as a derogatory term that assumes limiting a QBs abilities rather than a necessary facet to being a successful QB in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Figster]

31 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Ignorance is bliss. 

Mahomes beat by a good run game, hahaha

 

I think his game management skills is regressing.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Figster

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

 

7 hours ago, Locomark said:

Actually I liked many of his decisions today. He threw the ball away like 5-6 times instead of taking dumb sacks like he used to. They still aren’t in sync yet, but it’s not unusual for offenses to not put up big numbers early in a season. Let’s see what happens the next 2 weeks where there is a big chance to put up back to back 300 yd games. Beasley isn’t getting as wide open as he was last year either. Teams have figured out how to bracket his option routes. 

 

Great point about the throw-aways. They always seem frustrating in the moment but in reality they are likely the best play for him to make over the options of forcing a bad throw or taking a sack. 

 

 

[newcam2012]

53 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Yet all great QBs are in fact very good "game managers". That term is overly used as a derogatory term that assumes limiting a QBs abilities rather than a necessary facet to being a successful QB in the NFL.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True, it cuts both ways. Generally speaking, it has negative connotations. The term "franchise QB" is term used for the elite Qbs. No doubt Allen earned that title last year. However, it was a very small sample size. Imho, he isn't earning that title in this early season. Time will tell what label he will receive. 

[stosh64]

8 hours ago, Process said:

He's been really, really, REALLY bad. Completely different player than last year. 

 

Hopefully he snaps out of it. We have 0 chance against KC with this version of Allen. 

There isn't a bigger, 'home boy', Josh Allen supporter than me.

I totally agree with you.

I feel a little nauseous after a blowout win, WTF is wrong with me...What's Bills ptsd again

I still have faith our boy will figure it out, whatever "it" is.

[Scott7975]

4 hours ago, Process said:

Before the Steelers game, all the talk on Steelers forums was how bad their secondary is and how Allen is going to tear them apart. They all thought we would destroy them. 

 

But we lose and Allen plays like crap and Bills fans want to say it's because the Steelers have the best defense in the league. 

 

Their defense is not one of the best in the league. The Steelers are not a good team. Derek Carr just went for 400 and a win against them in Pittsburgh. 

 

Time to face reality... Allen has been bad and needs to get it together quick. 

 

They were missing or lost some key players in the Raiders game though.

[nucci]

10 hours ago, Process said:

He's been really, really, REALLY bad. Completely different player than last year. 

 

Hopefully he snaps out of it. We have 0 chance against KC with this version of Allen. 

when do we play KC?

[UKBillFan]

10 hours ago, Process said:

He's been really, really, REALLY bad. Completely different player than last year. 

 

Hopefully he snaps out of it. We have 0 chance against KC with this version of Allen. 

I’d argue he looked like 2018 Josh for the first six quarters of the season, then 2019 Josh for the next two. I don’t think we can expect a leap in form from 2018 to 2020 so progression is key. I’ll be happy if 2019 Josh turns up against Washington with a couple of plays which feel like he’s getting back to last year’s heights. Steady improvement through the season as he and Daboll, hopefully, work out new designs and ways to work around new defensive strategies against us.