2nd Half Defense: What Happened

[pocoboy]

3 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I think the Bills defense will be more like the second half defense we saw yesterday.  Once Pittsburgh started pushing the ball somewhat down field more and putting pressure on our secondary they crumbled.  Levi Wallace is a major liability.  

 

It really lays suspect the McDermott/Beane obsession with drafting DL. This league is "throw it everywhere quick" and we're starting an undrafted player at CB2. It's not easy to get to good QB even when you beat your guy. Seems like these guys are a little behind in the times.

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

They only gave up 16 points total.  They weren't the issue.

Exactly....a freak blocked punt and an OC who might've had on of his worst game. Giving them that field position really hurt off those embarrassing 4th down calls. But yes to a small degree, the D does tend to take the foot off the petal in the second half. It's like they're reacting to the offense's struggles.

[pocoboy]

6 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

What happened?

 

The offense stopped scoring. 

 

The GR guys enjoy this "throw it 60 times" mentality because unless you have Brady or Mahomes or Rodgers you're losing, which gets them more listens than when they win. Nobody wants run heavy or balanced - but you have to make the defense respect the play action. That will create more room for a QB struggling with a little accuracy to fit balls.

[GunnerBill]

They hit a couple of big plays. The PI by Levi, the deep shot to Claypool where he made an incredible grab and the end around (where a clear hold on Oliver was missed). They basically had those 3 plays. That was it. 

[mannc]

4 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think two opposing things can be true at the same time:

 

1) The Bills D was not the main reason they lost.  They only gave up 16 points.

 

2) The 2nd half performance by the Bills D did contribute greatly to the loss.

 

The D allowed Pittsburgh to score 13 points on their first 3 drives of the 2nd half.  All three drives were long, time consuming drives that robbed the Bills of at least one and possibly two offensive possessions.

 

Now if the offense was firing on all cylinders it wouldn't have mattered.  But given the type of game it was the D's let up in the 2nd half combined with the blocked punt TD were major contributors to the loss.

 

Over the course of a long season the offense will win some games 38 - 31 but there are going to be times when the O is misfiring and we'll have to win a game 16 - 13.  Yesterday was a prime example of this.  And this thread is correct to point it out.

 

 

 

Exactly.  Those who are saying "hey, the defense only gave up 16 points in the game" are missing the point.  In the first half, our defense stonewalled the Steelers and got a lot of pressure on Roethlisberger; in the second half, the Steelers moved the ball easily and scored pretty much every time they needed to.  It was like two entirely different performances and the OP was right to question what went wrong in the second half.  The difference in QB pressures was obvious to the naked eye.  

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

The GR guys enjoy this "throw it 60 times" mentality because unless you have Brady or Mahomes or Rodgers you're losing, which gets them more listens than when they win. Nobody wants run heavy or balanced - but you have to make the defense respect the play action. That will create more room for a QB struggling with a little accuracy to fit balls.

No.

 

Having an elite QB wins, how can anyone who has watched this team for the past 20 years not see this?

 

The Steelers were the worst running team in football last year.

The Bucs were not that far behind and just won the super bowl. 

 

[Blank Stare]

D was fine. Played well enough to win. Don’t get the Levi Wallace hate. Sure, he’s not Tre, but most aren’t. As we've all seen, you can do a lot worse than Levi Wallace. 
 

This loss is on two things to me: 1. a poor offensive game plan and even worse execution of that game plan; and 2. Inopportune bone headed special teams play on the blocked punt. 
 

We gave them this game. “Let them off the hook” as Denny Green would say. If the offense didn’t spend all day short circuiting, we win that game easily. 

[pocoboy]

37 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

No.

 

Having an elite QB wins, how can anyone who has watched this team for the past 20 years not see this?

 

The Steelers were the worst running team in football last year.

The Bucs were not that far behind and just won the super bowl. 

 

Sure, when you go up against an elite QB who can score 50, you have to play shootout ball.

 

This game wasn’t that. It takes a good coach to understand the situation. Maybe some lays on Allen, there may be calls he made at the line which he chose to stay in pass mode. In any event, this game was lost on the punt block, but the offense had better sort out its woes quickly.

[CincyBillsFan]

4 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Not completely untrue, but some major things to consider.

 

1. 1st half our defense played way better than expected. To shut out a team with as many weapons as Steelers have is not easy.

 

2. Giving up 16 points in a single half, on paper seems below average.   But consider that Steelers were given great field position on 3 separate occasions (turnover and 2 4th down missed conversions).  Also, a couple key penalties provided them and extended drives/points.  Both penalties (White holding and Wallace PI) were questionable at best

 

3.  3 FGs and just 1 TD.  That's what our defense surrendered to a team with a HOF QB, a top 5 skille position group, and a new off coordinator that brings challenges to prepare for

 

Bottom line, nobody should be questioning the defense or its performance.  This was all on the offense/poor execution, poor pass protection by oline, 1 ST blunder, and 2-3 very bad playcalls that gave Pitt the momentum back.

 

We should have been leading by 14+ points after our 1st half defensive performance, and the great return by Isaih to start the game. 

 

On to week 2.  Up to the coaches and players to learn from these mistakes and become a better team from it.  Sometimes these losses can be the catalyst needed, or the measuring stick, to adjust future gameplans or personnel.  

Like I said before sometimes you have to win games 16 - 13 and sometimes you win them 38 - 31.  The defense played well for sure but their 2nd half performance was substantially less effective then the first half one.  The offense & special teams bear the most responsibility for the loss but to me yesterday was the very definition of a team loss.

 

[CountDorkula]

4 hours ago, pocoboy said:

Sure, when you go up against an elite QB who can score 50, you have to play shootout ball.

 

This game wasn’t that. It takes a good coach to understand the situation. Maybe some lays on Allen, there may be calls he made at the line which he chose to stay in pass mode. In any event, this game was lost on the punt block, but the offense had better sort out its woes quickly.

They just paid josh Allen 45 million dollars a year.

He is supposed to be that elite guy that can score 50, no?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

They only gave up 16 points total.  They weren't the ^ issue.

 

^major

^only

^(fill in your thing here)

 

Sorry but a defense that folds its lawnchairs in the 2nd half was absolutely an issue in the early part of last season and we saw it again on Sunday

It may not be the major issue, it certainly wasn't the only issue, but it is, by Jinx, an issue.

[CountDorkula]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Like I said before sometimes you have to win games 16 - 13 and sometimes you win them 38 - 31.  The defense played well for sure but their 2nd half performance was substantially less effective then the first half one.  The offense & special teams bear the most responsibility for the loss but to me yesterday was the very definition of a team loss.

 

Yea, the defense allowing the checks notes.

 

5th worst completion % from a QB

3rd fewest yards

5th fewest yards passing

9th fewest rushing yards

6th fewest points

 

 

Deserves some of the blame

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

^major

^only

^(fill in your thing here)

 

Sorry but a defense that folds its lawnchairs in the 2nd half was absolutely an issue in the early part of last season and we saw it again on Sunday

It may not be the major issue, it certainly wasn't the only issue, but it is, by Jinx, an issue.

see above

[Scott7975]

Pittsburg has a HOF QB and playmakers on their offense.  The defense played well enough.  Even in the second half.  They still only allowed 1 TD in that half.  Not going to hold that calibre of team down an entire game.  At least two of those drives were aided by penalty.  The TD drive was the PI on Wallace.  Probably a legit call but it was like 26 yards of that drive alone.  Another scoring drive was that PI on the White INT.  I thought that was BS but whatever.  Thats two of their 4 scores.

 

Personally I was proud of that D.  Wish we had it last season.  Thought they did a hell of a job.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Scott7975

[TheBrownBear]

Any time your defense holds the opponent to less than 300 total yards and/or less than 20 points in the modern NFL, they did a damn good job.  They made the Steelers earn every inch of turf.

[Dopey]

12 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Tight end seem route, and whoever Levi Wallace was supposed to cover seemed to be where they attacked with success. 

Steelers WRs out played/out muscled our CBs on a few plays. Even White gave up plays.

[Weatherman]

Bills have a better team, Steelers have better coaching.  Bills players won the first half even with the atrocious play calling.  Steelers coaching won the game because they had a better defensive game plan going into the game and made half time adjustments on offense / special teams to win the game.  It’s a game of chess and Mc D and Daboll got schooled Queens Gambit style.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Weatherman

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

I thought it was bad, but it was like 2 different halves.  Per NFL.com, "The Steelers scored 23 points after trailing 10-0 at halftime.  On their last four drives, they generated 231 yards and 13 first downs after opening the game with 22 yards and three first downs on their first 14 plays (6 drives)."  

 

I have no idea, wondering what everyone else thinks.  

 

The Steelers are not an elite offense by any means (Ben did not hit anyone over 20 air yards), and they started 4 new offensive lineman.  

 

As much as Daboll is rightfully taking flack for his game planning, what happened to the D?

 

 

 

Field position and special teams. I thought the defense played quite well and I'm pretty pumped for the season. I'm sure they'll win us a few close games when Allen is struggling as long as he doesn't turn the ball over. 

7 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

Bills have a better team, Steelers have better coaching.  Bills players won the first half even with the atrocious play calling.  Steelers coaching won the game because they had a better defensive game plan going into the game and made half time adjustments on offense / special teams to win the game.  It’s a game of chess and Mc D and Daboll got schooled Queens Gambit style.

 

Exactly. Coaches can have off games just as players do. This loss was 80% on the coaching. I don't think Mike Tomlin is overall better than McDermott at this stage of their careers, but he indeed had a better individual game than McDermott.

Edited September 14, 2021 by ChronicAndKnuckles

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

^major

^only

^(fill in your thing here)

 

Sorry but a defense that folds its lawnchairs in the 2nd half was absolutely an issue in the early part of last season and we saw it again on Sunday

It may not be the major issue, it certainly wasn't the only issue, but it is, by Jinx, an issue.

 

You can't keep giving Pittsburgh a short field and expect the defense to keep holding them. Putting up points also would've helped. 

[RyanC883]

14 hours ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Field position and special teams. I thought the defense played quite well and I'm pretty pumped for the season. I'm sure they'll win us a few close games when Allen is struggling as long as he doesn't turn the ball over. 

 

Exactly. Coaches can have off games just as players do. This loss was 80% on the coaching. I don't think Mike Tomlin is overall better than McDermott at this stage of their careers, but he indeed had a better individual game than McDermott.

 

The Defense was good in the first half, but "well," I think is too much praise, IMO.  4 new offensive lineman and one sack??  Too many 1st downs in the 2nd half when you must get the Steelers off the field.  Lots of quotes by defensive players such as Hyde regarding their subpar play down the stretch.   I also agree this game was a lot of coaching mistakes, I agree with 80%.  Mostly Daboll and McD, then you have uncharacteristically poor performances from Allen, really bad OL play, and Wallace getting abused.  

[Boatdrinks]

D was not elite, but they weren’t last year either, imo. The Bills offense failed to get in the end zone, convert on 4th down, and had several head scratching decisions by the coaches. Josh had another giveaway. The STs gave up a free TD. Ballgame. 

[Patrick Duffy]

Steelers are a good team. They adjusted appropriately enough to move the ball. Offense/play calling/etc just couldn't do enough.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

The Defense was good in the first half, but "well," I think is too much praise, IMO.  4 new offensive lineman and one sack??  Too many 1st downs in the 2nd half when you must get the Steelers off the field.  Lots of quotes by defensive players such as Hyde regarding their subpar play down the stretch.   I also agree this game was a lot of coaching mistakes, I agree with 80%.  Mostly Daboll and McD, then you have uncharacteristically poor performances from Allen, really bad OL play, and Wallace getting abused.  

 

Not to nitpick, but it was 2 sacks and SHOULD'VE been a pick. They also held Ben to 188 yards, 1 TD, and a 50% completion rate. Not bad for a guy who threw for 33 TD and nearly 4000 yards last year!  I also want to mention that they held the Steelers to 75 yards rushing.

 

They gave up some chunks in inopportune times, but all in all the defense played great. It was that stupid blocked punt that did them in along w/ that mental gaff by Sanders. 

 

 

 

 

[CaptnCoke11]

14 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

 

Not to nitpick, but it was 2 sacks and SHOULD'VE been a pick. They also held Ben to 188 yards, 1 TD, and a 50% completion rate. Not bad for a guy who threw for 33 TD and nearly 4000 yards last year!  I also want to mention that they held the Steelers to 75 yards rushing.

 

They gave up some chunks in inopportune times, but all in all the defense played great. It was that stupid blocked punt that did them in along w/ that mental gaff by Sanders. 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn’t say they played great.  They did give up 200 yards in the second half and couldn’t get off the field on 3rd down in the second half.  

[JerseyBills]

On 9/13/2021 at 9:17 AM, RobbRiddick said:

Maybe they were getting tired. Plus I think they felt the pressure of coming up with a turnover because the offense was struggling so badly, looked like they were pressing a lot. 

 

To be honest there were a lot of plays where Pitt just made a great play. There was one where White had great coverage and they still managed to complete it. Sometimes things just go that way.

Dionte Johnson TD was one of them. Great coverage,  better catch , he's a great WR

[BBills_88]

Why do we allow TE's to kill us with big plays down the seems when we are in zone.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

6 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

I wouldn’t say they played great.  They did give up 200 yards in the second half and couldn’t get off the field on 3rd down in the second half.  

 

Regardless, they gave up 16 points. I'll take that every single game in the modern day NFL. The offense and special teams are to blame, not the defense. We'll agree to disagree.

[par73]

They were excellent in the 1st half. 2nd half, they didn't get a stop (and no heat on Ben).

[LABILLBACKER]

We gave up 6 lousy points after 3 quarters. Wallace played the miracle catch very well. The offense and Dabol put the defense in poor field positions. The defense played well enough to win by double digits.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

On 9/13/2021 at 9:53 AM, SCBills said:

 

The Defense wasn't just good in the first half, they were next level elite.

 

The Second Half, yes, they had some struggles, but still held the Steelers to FG's, while our Offense kept spazzing out.  The one TD coming on a great individual play by Johnson over Levi.  This also in conjunction with the refs deciding to call both holding on Tre and PI on Levi (I'm ok with the PI, but it's still one you don't see called sometimes, and they owed us one after that Tre White call).  Also Claypool simply made a great play on Tre.  It happens.

 

I thought Ben played really well in the second half too.  He was buying time and making good throws.  

 

Giving up 16 points in one half isn't ideal, but when your offense keeps putting the defense in bad positions all half, that can happen.... even to, what we're all hoping, is a very good defense.  

 

My gripe is that we still didn't see splash plays BUT we were also a bit unlucky...   Watt had a strip sack that they recovered.  Addison had a strip sack that they recovered, White has a pick that they erased with a ticky tack holding call and Edmunds just barely missed a deflected interception. 

 

I hate that PI call on Levi.  I get why you call it, but essentially you let the receiver climb all over the DB to get to back shoulder throws like that.  So if he throws deep, claypools got a step and is open, and if he throws behind him, you draw a PI.  Levi didn't initiate contact, he basically continued running and put hands up as claypool jumped.  That's a 3rd down that they got 26 yards on.  

 

Then they call holding on that pick?  When the Pitt receiver runs into tre?  If he doesn't touch him there he's just giving up a catch.  It's ridiculous, let them play football here.  This took a turnover off the board.

 

Almost every scoring drive in the 2nd half had an assist by a defensive penalty, and they got burned on a reverse (again...)

[PolishDave]

On 9/13/2021 at 9:08 AM, RyanC883 said:

I thought it was bad, but it was like 2 different halves.  Per NFL.com, "The Steelers scored 23 points after trailing 10-0 at halftime.  On their last four drives, they generated 231 yards and 13 first downs after opening the game with 22 yards and three first downs on their first 14 plays (6 drives)."  

 

I have no idea, wondering what everyone else thinks.  

 

The Steelers are not an elite offense by any means (Ben did not hit anyone over 20 air yards), and they started 4 new offensive lineman.  

 

As much as Daboll is rightfully taking flack for his game planning, what happened to the D?

 

 

 

I think a couple of things happened that made the biggest difference in the second half.

 

1) I think Ben was getting the ball out a little faster - which helped neutralize the pass rush Buffalo had been getting and helped the Steelers get into more of a rythm

2) Being a team that was facing a shut out from the first half - they Steelers decided to take more chances - throwing questionable balls to guys that were covered - those went their way.   Could have resulted in turnovers, but didn't.    With things already going the Steelers' way, the Bills' offense was still sputtering when it mattered.  Pittsburgh  got the punt block for 6.   That pretty much sealed it.

 

Basically, the Steelers coaches' halftime adjustments worked much better than Buffalo's.  And the Steelers got a little more aggressive with passes that paid off.

 

I think the Steelers are going to get mauled when they go up against a defense with a much better defensive line than Buffalo has.   Ben will be chucking ducks up for grabs and Najee will be eating dirt.

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by PolishDave