It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[Beast]

38 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I can assure you the scientific consensus supports vaccination

 

Consensus. 

 

In other words, science shopping.

[plenzmd1]

yep, those vaccines just working exactly as advertised.

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Some Black Actors and Athletes Won’t Spout the Party Line About Vaccines.

 

One way to shut down discussion is to depict anyone who disagrees with you as an evil monster.

 

In this case, the popular conception of the vaccine skeptic is a MAGA-hatted redneck chewin’ his tobaccy whilst beatin’ his younguns and rapin’ his sister-wife.

 

Those people do exist, but that’s hardly the only group of Americans who don’t like the way things are going. The dissenters aren’t just white folks, or Republicans, or Trump voters, or any of the other boogeymen under the bed of the average lib. One voice of reason in all this is… wait, is this right? [Black-ish star] Anthony Anderson?

 

* * * * * * * *

The THR piece also notes that Letitia Wright, who plays the Black Panther’s super-genius sister Shuri in the Marvel movies, has also expressed dissenting views on vaccines.

 

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/478062/

 

 

 

Move along, nothing to see here, citizen.

 

 

.

 

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

Consensus. 

 

In other words, science shopping.

No, in other words how science works.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Well this is the issue, isn’t it?  Is it about the individual or about the society?  A global pandemic hits and people ask what’s in it for me, rather than how can I help my neighbor.  
 

Your last paragraph speaks volumes.  The mortality rate among vaccinated is at least 10 fold lower than unvaccinated, hospitalization rates are much higher with the unvaccinated, yet you talk about death and suffering in vaccinated.  The Modena thing, I can’t find any numbers on with respect to actual risk of myocarditis, only that it’s very rare, and if it’s like the Israeli data it’s maybe 7 cases in a million and most all resolve.  And Sweden didn’t tell young people not to get vaccinated but to choose a different vaccine.  But somehow that’s construed as worse that getting Covid when the data says otherwise.

 

People say the CDC should get better spokespeople and so on.  But it won’t matter because we now live in a society that is no longer a society, where the guy next you doesn’t give a damn about you, and where actual scientific knowledge is thrown on the alter of social media-hyped insanity.

 

And again, thanks for being an organ donor.  

I think sometimes it's about the individual, sometimes it's about society.  I think it's that way in life, generally.  Sometimes we help our neighbor, the one who owns the local hardware store, sometimes we pop over to the Home Depot to get rock bottom prices without a second thought.  Sometimes we support higher taxes on the other guy while we benefit from the lower tax rate, or vice versa.  Sometimes we support the other guy's president, sometimes the other guy cooks up a McCarthy-esque Russian conspiracy grift to attempt to destroy yours. 

 

As far as my last paragraph, you're swinging at the wrong target.  I'm vaxed and strongly encouraged my vax-resistant son to get the jab.  I'm still not sure that was the right call.   All I am saying is it is perfectly normal, 100% understandable and an indisputable fact that young people are amazingly consistent.  Your perspective is they should take one for the team, that they should disregard the Moderna problem and just jump to another vax.  People are inquisitive by nature...7 months after touting Moderna as the super cure wonder drug,  suddenly the gov says "Ah, just do Pfizer..." and you don't think the natural question for a person likely convinced he doesn't need any vaccine to begin with is "What happens when they find out the Pfizer shot is dangerous in 6 months?".  7 out of a million ain't bad odds, but  not as good as 0 out of a million if they will generally tolerate COVID with low risk of death.  

 

I think you still miss the larger point, so I'll mention it and ask you one more time:

 

Setting aside your indignation that some folks are distrustful of what the CDC, Faucci and the rest say, would you not acknowledge that it is true that the overwhelmingly vast majority of young people tolerate exposure to COVID and subsequent infection very well?    

 

My son uses an e-cigarette.  I have told him 538 times that this may be one of the most foolish things he can do, that he's inhaling chemicals into his lungs, and that the long term effects are lunknown but potentially catastrophic.  I'm 100% accurate on this count, I'm not a medical professional and he trusts me.  I'm surely going to have to have this dialogue another 538 times before it sinks in.    Given our relationship and his response to my feedback, what's the relative likelihood he will listen to  the CDC and the Fauch when--whether you choose to acknowledge it or not---the guidance has been hypocritical, confusing and has evolved or changed multiple times.  To boot, the uneasy alliance in this gain of function research, inconsistencies on how or why this COVID crisis started, and the massive amount of money changing hands here is a recipe for disaster from a trust perspective.  Sure, you with your training at age 60+ can sagely tell him "But that's just science and science is hard..." but he's probably not going to listen you either.  One thing though--he does not think in any way, shape or form that he's going to be responsible for your death from COVID, he's simply not wired that way. The same kid would likely sacrifice life and limb to drag you out of your Porsche 911 if you had an accident and your car started on fire.  

 

It's not just a matter of "better spokesmen", based on what we now know, Fauci would be the villain in just about every Hollywood thriller involving contagions and mass death.  

 

You're starting to make me nervous on the organ donation thing.  @B-Man, @SoCal Deek, @Bidens_basement and @Sundancer if something should happen to me and my kidney's, pancreas, and liver* are missing from my body, please let the police know I did not voluntarily part with them and they should check Oldies basement for hidden rooms.  And, I've only included Sunny in case you other three mutts are in on the game. 

 

*If you're harvesting the man parts, word to the wise- you should bring an extra large vessel to transport.  

49 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You realize the risks of things like blood clots from the vaccine are way less than morbidity and mortality from Covid?  

The only other time in history I can think of where we had either a national crisis or war or something like that, and the country didn’t pull together, was Vietnam.  And the Civil War, but that was obviously a unique case.

McCarthyism.  Russia gate.  The Kavanaugh nomination.  Pre-1960s deep south America. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[Beast]

42 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

No, in other words how science works.

 

Sure. So you are saying some scientists are wrong but others aren't.

 

Just wondering, are you, yourself, a scientist?

 

 

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I know hundreds personally that think they’ and you are crazy and since 90% or more of health care workers are vaccinated across the country they apparently agree.

Yeah hard to talk to the brainwashed. 

[B-Man]

38 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Yeah hard to talk to the brainwashed. 

 

 

Even harder to talk with those with closed minds

 

I'm thinking that I will put my four decades of healthcare experience ahead of your insistence on a lock-step solution.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by B-Man

[Bockeye]

11 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Yeah hard to talk to the brainwashed. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/health-care-workers-covid-19-vaccine-half-not-vaccinated/
 

 

Article from March and then mandates we’re enacted. Many were forced and/coerced into getting the vax.  
 

There goes that theory. 
 

Seriously, you guys have think and take a look at the timeline and all that’s happened. Stop drinking the rhetoric. 
 

Undisputed FACTS

 

No mask, then mask, then three masks

 

vaccine bad because trump made it. Trump gone, vaccine good. 

vax means you won’t get covid. Oops, you can get covid. 
 

vax means you won’t spread virus.  Oops, you can spread virus. 
 

vax means you won’t die.  Oops, you can die. 

 

We can eradicate covid.  Oops, we will live with it forever like flu. 

and the list goes on…
 

 

[Orlando Tim]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You honestly believe a cold is comparable to a major issue from Covid.  You honestly think that.

 

Once again- the chances of my healthy son having a major case of Covid is less than the norm for those under 25, so if the the normal amount is one in 200,000( your numbers) his is most likely one in a million or less. So I am making the informed decision not to have him take a vaccine without a long term study to protect others who should be protecting themselves. At least you realize that the variants are not going to ever stop, vaccine or no vaccine 

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

 

Sure. So you are saying some scientists are wrong but others aren't.

 

Just wondering, are you, yourself, a scientist?

 

 

Yes.  Forty years in research.  And that is how science works.  You make observations, you do your research, you publish.  Others do their research, publish their findings that may differ from yours in some ways.  Your data and conclusions are critiqued as are others.  And consensus develops.

 

it is scary for the future of our country how many people like you have no clue what science is and how it works.  And even worse, don’t care to know.

[Beast]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes.  Forty years in research.  And that is how science works.  You make observations, you do your research, you publish.  Others do their research, publish their findings that may differ from yours in some ways.  Your data and conclusions are critiqued as are others.  And consensus develops.

 

it is scary for the future of our country how many people like you have no clue what science is and how it works.  And even worse, don’t care to know.

 

OK, so how many years or months, weeks or even days, have you been studying COVID 19, the vaccine, and any possible long term effects of taking the vaccine.

 

BTW, sorry to scare you.

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Beast

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

OK, so how many years or months, weeks or even days, have you been studying COVID 19, the vaccine, and any possible long term effects of taking the vaccine.

 

BTW, sorry to scare you.

 

It is not my field of research but I have been reading the relevant papers since the pandemic started.  I know the answer probably but I’ll ask anyway:  are you a scientist?

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

I think sometimes it's about the individual, sometimes it's about society.  I think it's that way in life, generally.  Sometimes we help our neighbor, the one who owns the local hardware store, sometimes we pop over to the Home Depot to get rock bottom prices without a second thought.  Sometimes we support higher taxes on the other guy while we benefit from the lower tax rate, or vice versa.  Sometimes we support the other guy's president, sometimes the other guy cooks up a McCarthy-esque Russian conspiracy grift to attempt to destroy yours. 

 

As far as my last paragraph, you're swinging at the wrong target.  I'm vaxed and strongly encouraged my vax-resistant son to get the jab.  I'm still not sure that was the right call.   All I am saying is it is perfectly normal, 100% understandable and an indisputable fact that young people are amazingly consistent.  Your perspective is they should take one for the team, that they should disregard the Moderna problem and just jump to another vax.  People are inquisitive by nature...7 months after touting Moderna as the super cure wonder drug,  suddenly the gov says "Ah, just do Pfizer..." and you don't think the natural question for a person likely convinced he doesn't need any vaccine to begin with is "What happens when they find out the Pfizer shot is dangerous in 6 months?".  7 out of a million ain't bad odds, but  not as good as 0 out of a million if they will generally tolerate COVID with low risk of death.  

 

I think you still miss the larger point, so I'll mention it and ask you one more time:

 

Setting aside your indignation that some folks are distrustful of what the CDC, Faucci and the rest say, would you not acknowledge that it is true that the overwhelmingly vast majority of young people tolerate exposure to COVID and subsequent infection very well?    

 

My son uses an e-cigarette.  I have told him 538 times that this may be one of the most foolish things he can do, that he's inhaling chemicals into his lungs, and that the long term effects are lunknown but potentially catastrophic.  I'm 100% accurate on this count, I'm not a medical professional and he trusts me.  I'm surely going to have to have this dialogue another 538 times before it sinks in.    Given our relationship and his response to my feedback, what's the relative likelihood he will listen to  the CDC and the Fauch when--whether you choose to acknowledge it or not---the guidance has been hypocritical, confusing and has evolved or changed multiple times.  To boot, the uneasy alliance in this gain of function research, inconsistencies on how or why this COVID crisis started, and the massive amount of money changing hands here is a recipe for disaster from a trust perspective.  Sure, you with your training at age 60+ can sagely tell him "But that's just science and science is hard..." but he's probably not going to listen you either.  One thing though--he does not think in any way, shape or form that he's going to be responsible for your death from COVID, he's simply not wired that way. The same kid would likely sacrifice life and limb to drag you out of your Porsche 911 if you had an accident and your car started on fire.  

 

It's not just a matter of "better spokesmen", based on what we now know, Fauci would be the villain in just about every Hollywood thriller involving contagions and mass death.  

 

You're starting to make me nervous on the organ donation thing.  @B-Man, @SoCal Deek, @Bidens_basement and @Sundancer if something should happen to me and my kidney's, pancreas, and liver* are missing from my body, please let the police know I did not voluntarily part with them and they should check Oldies basement for hidden rooms.  And, I've only included Sunny in case you other three mutts are in on the game. 

 

*If you're harvesting the man parts, word to the wise- you should bring an extra large vessel to transport.  

McCarthyism.  Russia gate.  The Kavanaugh nomination.  Pre-1960s deep south America. 

Good points all, especially the examples at the end.  Clearly the data in younger individuals is much more comforting inbb by that they are at much less risk of death. My larger concern in younger groups who contract the disease and the resulting potential morbidity.  There was just a study this week suggesting Covid infection might link to increased risk of diabetes.  We don’t know long term what will happen.

 

Of course some say the same about the vaccine, but given the nature of the vaccine and historical data on side effects it just is not an issue.  Side effects from vaccines are rare, and show up within weeks.  And the myocarditis and blood clot issues with the J & J are examples where they were found quickly.

 

It comes down to benefit vs. risk and the data are clear.  But convincing the younger group is hard as you indicate.

[billsfan5121]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Good points all, especially the examples at the end.  Clearly the data in younger individuals is much more comforting inbb by that they are at much less risk of death. My larger concern in younger groups who contract the disease and the resulting potential morbidity.  There was just a study this week suggesting Covid infection might link to increased risk of diabetes.  We don’t know long term what will happen.

 

Of course some say the same about the vaccine, but given the nature of the vaccine and historical data on side effects it just is not an issue.  Side effects from vaccines are rare, and show up within weeks.  And the myocarditis and blood clot issues with the J & J are examples where they were found quickly.

 

It comes down to benefit vs. risk and the data are clear.  But convincing the younger group is hard as you indicate.

Here’s the problem. For many of us, we don’t get to weigh the benefit vs the risk for ourselves. Instead, we are being forced to take something, even if we counted the cost. And when people are hesitant, it’s not so much is it safe today. We all know people who have been vaccinated and are still here and seemingly healthy. We believe that there’s a chance that there could be future repercussions because say what you want about science, it CANNOT accurately predict future outcomes. It can provide info to make a guess, but it’s not guaranteed. What is deemed safe today can be found to be dangerous later. There are examples of that and the FDA approving things that turned out to be dangerous. So vaccine approvals don’t mean much to some people. 

[B-Man]

 

 

As Joe says..............just look at those employee vaccination rates go up !

 

 

 

 

President Joe Biden was in Illinois Thursday talking about vaccine mandates. Biden, whose defining trait is his empathy, said to look at the bigger picture when you see reports of mass firings and hundreds of people losing their jobs due to vaccine mandates. He uses United as a success story, saying their vaccination rate went from 59 percent to 99 percent.

 

 

After a company fires everyone who isn't vaccinated, that company's vax rate tends to go up.

 

 

 

God help the U.S.

 

 

 

[Sundancer]

13 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Keep dreaming. Just don’t come running to me when the hammer comes down! 

 

No answer to my specific question? Just an amorphous conspiracy group in charge? When are they coming? When will they be revealed? 

10 hours ago, Bockeye said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/health-care-workers-covid-19-vaccine-half-not-vaccinated/
 

 

Article from March and then mandates we’re enacted. Many were forced and/coerced into getting the vax.  
 

There goes that theory. 
 

Seriously, you guys have think and take a look at the timeline and all that’s happened. Stop drinking the rhetoric. 
 

Undisputed FACTS

 

No mask, then mask, then three masks

 

vaccine bad because trump made it. Trump gone, vaccine good. 

vax means you won’t get covid. Oops, you can get covid. 
 

vax means you won’t spread virus.  Oops, you can spread virus. 
 

vax means you won’t die.  Oops, you can die. 

 

We can eradicate covid.  Oops, we will live with it forever like flu. 

and the list goes on…
 

 

 

Article from March 2021 on vaccine rate of HCWs. You sure schooled me. 

[Bockeye]

Thank you - now your reading comprehension is on full display. I actually pointed out that the article is from March and ONLY just over 50% of HCW’s were vaccinated at that time. I then went on the state that the % picked up considerably after March because these HCW’s were coerced/forced to get the jab and thus the rate is higher now. 
 

Consider yourself schooled. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Bockeye

[Bockeye]

21 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Medicine is about benefit vs. risk.  The math indicates that even ion younger people the risk of getting Covid far outweighs any risk with the vaccine.

See my comment about benefit and risk; the risk of getting Covid are still much higher in the younger population than the risk associated with the vaccine.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0146280621002267?via%3Dihub

 

 

“Thus, due to both the problems of under-reporting and the known lag in report processing, this analysis reveals a strong signal from the VAERS data that the risk of suffering CIRM – especially males is unacceptably high. Again, children are not a high-risk group for COVID-19 respiratory illness, and yet they are the high-risk group for CIRM.

So much for your theory on children/young adults getting vaccine.”
 

If I keep schooling you this much, I’m gonna have to bill you. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Bockeye

[oldmanfan]

51 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0146280621002267?via%3Dihub

 

 

“Thus, due to both the problems of under-reporting and the known lag in report processing, this analysis reveals a strong signal from the VAERS data that the risk of suffering CIRM – especially males is unacceptably high. Again, children are not a high-risk group for COVID-19 respiratory illness, and yet they are the high-risk group for CIRM.

So much for your theory on children/young adults getting vaccine.”
 

If I keep schooling you this much, I’m gonna have to bill you. 

Your schooling did not apparently include math.

 

It is known that the Covid vaccines, especially the mRNA types, have an increased risk of myocarditis associated with them.  The Israeli data as well as the data in the report you cite support that.  Now what is the actual risk in terms of percentage of cases and mortality?  In the article you cite the risk is 4 per million or about 0.14% of all adverse event reported to the VAERS system.  In kids, the article you cite suggest that there have been just south of 3.5 million vaccinations, and 559 myocarditis cases, of which there have been 6 deaths.  Which are tragic to be sure.  But if ones then does the math, it turns out that the mortality rate from myocarditis secondary to vaccination is about 4-7 deaths per million individuals, or around 0.0005%.

 

The mortiality rate of Covid in younger individuals as I pointed out above is about 0.005% from Covid itself, and does not account for longer term morbidity associated with the virus.

 

As I have said numerous times here, medicine is about benefit vs. risk.  The numbers here suggest that there is a benefit to the vaccine, in that you have a 10 fold higher chance of dying from Covid than myocarditis in the younger age group.  Below is the CDC review and recommendations:

 

To assess the benefit-risk balance of mRNA vaccines in adolescents and young adults, ACIP reviewed an individual-level assessment that compared the benefits (i.e., COVID-19 infections and severe disease prevented) to the risks (number of cases of myocarditis) of vaccination, using methods similar to those described previously.††† Specifically, the benefits per million second doses administered (i.e., the benefits of being fully vaccinated in accordance with the FDA EUA) were assessed, including 1) COVID-19 cases prevented based on rates the week of May 29, 2021§§§; 2) COVID-19 hospitalizations prevented based on rates the week of May 22, 2021¶¶¶; and 3) COVID-19 intensive care unit (ICU) admissions and deaths prevented based on the proportion of hospitalized patients who were admitted to the ICU or died.**** The risks were assessed as the number of myocarditis patients reported to VAERS that occurred within 7 days of receipt of a second dose of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine per million second doses administered through the week of June 11, 2021.†††† The benefit-risk assessment was stratified by age group and sex. The analysis assumed 95% vaccine effectiveness§§§§ of 2 doses of a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 cases and hospitalization and assessed outcomes for a 120-day period. The 120-day period was selected because 1) no alternative vaccine options currently exist for persons aged <18 years or are expected to be available during this period, and 2) inputs regarding community transmission have high uncertainty beyond this period, particularly in the context of circulating variants.¶¶¶¶

 

The benefits (prevention of COVID-19 disease and associated hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and deaths) outweighed the risks (expected myocarditis cases after vaccination) in all populations for which vaccination has been recommended. However, the balance of benefits and risks varied by age and sex because cases of myocarditis were primarily identified among males aged <30 years, and the risks of poor outcomes related to COVID-19 increase with age. Per million second doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine administered to males aged 12–29 years, 11,000 COVID-19 cases, 560 hospitalizations, 138 ICU admissions, and six deaths due to COVID-19 could be prevented, compared with 39–47 expected myocarditis cases after COVID-19 vaccination (Table 2). Among males aged ≥30 years, 15,300 COVID-19 cases, 4,598 hospitalizations, 1,242 ICU admissions, and 700 deaths could be prevented, compared with three to four expected myocarditis cases after COVID-19 vaccination. This analysis did not include the potential benefit of preventing post-COVID-19 conditions, such as prolonged symptoms and MIS-C (6,7).

Edited October 8, 2021 by oldmanfan

[All_Pro_Bills]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Your schooling did not apparently include math.

 

It is known that the Covid vaccines, especially the mRNA types, have an increased risk of myocarditis associated with them.  The Israeli data as well as the data in the report you cite support that.  Now what is the actual risk in terms of percentage of cases and mortality?  In the article you cite the risk is 4 per million or about 0.14% of all adverse event reported to the VAERS system.  In kids, the article you cite suggest that there have been just south of 3.5 million vaccinations, and 559 myocarditis cases, of which there have been 6 deaths.  Which are tragic to be sure.  But if ones then does the math, it turns out that the mortality rate from myocarditis secondary to vaccination is about 4-7 deaths per million individuals, or around 0.0005%.

 

The mortiality rate of Covid in younger individuals as I pointed out above is about 0.005% from Covid itself, and does not account for longer term morbidity associated with the virus.

 

As I have said numerous times here, medicine is about benefit vs. risk.  The numbers here suggest that there is a benefit to the vaccine, in that you have a 10 fold higher chance of dying from Covid than myocarditis in the younger age group.  Below is the CDC review and recommendations:

 

To assess the benefit-risk balance of mRNA vaccines in adolescents and young adults, ACIP reviewed an individual-level assessment that compared the benefits (i.e., COVID-19 infections and severe disease prevented) to the risks (number of cases of myocarditis) of vaccination, using methods similar to those described previously.††† Specifically, the benefits per million second doses administered (i.e., the benefits of being fully vaccinated in accordance with the FDA EUA) were assessed, including 1) COVID-19 cases prevented based on rates the week of May 29, 2021§§§; 2) COVID-19 hospitalizations prevented based on rates the week of May 22, 2021¶¶¶; and 3) COVID-19 intensive care unit (ICU) admissions and deaths prevented based on the proportion of hospitalized patients who were admitted to the ICU or died.**** The risks were assessed as the number of myocarditis patients reported to VAERS that occurred within 7 days of receipt of a second dose of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine per million second doses administered through the week of June 11, 2021.†††† The benefit-risk assessment was stratified by age group and sex. The analysis assumed 95% vaccine effectiveness§§§§ of 2 doses of a mRNA COVID-19 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 cases and hospitalization and assessed outcomes for a 120-day period. The 120-day period was selected because 1) no alternative vaccine options currently exist for persons aged <18 years or are expected to be available during this period, and 2) inputs regarding community transmission have high uncertainty beyond this period, particularly in the context of circulating variants.¶¶¶¶

 

The benefits (prevention of COVID-19 disease and associated hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and deaths) outweighed the risks (expected myocarditis cases after vaccination) in all populations for which vaccination has been recommended. However, the balance of benefits and risks varied by age and sex because cases of myocarditis were primarily identified among males aged <30 years, and the risks of poor outcomes related to COVID-19 increase with age. Per million second doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine administered to males aged 12–29 years, 11,000 COVID-19 cases, 560 hospitalizations, 138 ICU admissions, and six deaths due to COVID-19 could be prevented, compared with 39–47 expected myocarditis cases after COVID-19 vaccination (Table 2). Among males aged ≥30 years, 15,300 COVID-19 cases, 4,598 hospitalizations, 1,242 ICU admissions, and 700 deaths could be prevented, compared with three to four expected myocarditis cases after COVID-19 vaccination. This analysis did not include the potential benefit of preventing post-COVID-19 conditions, such as prolonged symptoms and MIS-C (6,7).

OK.  But I still think the one-size-fits all shot policy ignores the fact that "risk" is not evenly distributed in the under 18 population or for that matter in the population as a whole?  So if the policy claims to be based on some sort of risk assessment it fails to account for a lot of specifics. 

Common fact is risk of death is heavily skewed towards anyone with specific co-morbidites and pre-existing conditions.  My nephew for example, got COVID in the Spring of 2020, and had a tough go with it.  But he has asthma.  He's a prime candidate for additional protection from the vaccine at this time.  But other kids without that or any other high risk condition are not.  So the benefit of the vaccine and the mandate is of little to no good to them.  And the risk from the vaccines some known and unknown both short and long are partially but not completely quantifiable.  So if some kid has immeasurably close to zero chance of getting moderately, severely, or critically sick, and even less chance of hospitalization, and even less chance of death what's the benefit? 

Let's not ignore the fact the testing cycle here was extremely short and whether anybody wants to admit it or not its likely a lot of steps in the process got cut short or cut out completely.  If the people in charge don't think the risk of longer term health problems from the vaccine are possible then why insist on liability waivers?  Because you can site all the statistics you want until you're blue in the face but you still can't guarantee anything so don't insist on making decisions that risk other people's lives that are totally risk-free for you personally.   

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

OK.  But I still think the one-size-fits all shot policy ignores the fact that "risk" is not evenly distributed in the under 18 population or for that matter in the population as a whole?  So if the policy claims to be based on some sort of risk assessment it fails to account for a lot of specifics. 

Common fact is risk of death is heavily skewed towards anyone with specific co-morbidites and pre-existing conditions.  My nephew for example, got COVID in the Spring of 2020, and had a tough go with it.  But he has asthma.  He's a prime candidate for additional protection from the vaccine at this time.  But other kids without that or any other high risk condition are not.  So the benefit of the vaccine and the mandate is of little to no good to them.  And the risk from the vaccines some known and unknown both short and long are partially but not completely quantifiable.  So if some kid has immeasurably close to zero chance of getting moderately, severely, or critically sick, and even less chance of hospitalization, and even less chance of death what's the benefit? 

Let's not ignore the fact the testing cycle here was extremely short and whether anybody wants to admit it or not its likely a lot of steps in the process got cut short or cut out completely.  If the people in charge don't think the risk of longer term health problems from the vaccine are possible then why insist on liability waivers?  Because you can site all the statistics you want until you're blue in the face but you still can't guarantee anything so don't insist on making decisions that risk other people's lives that are totally risk-free for you personally.   

The vaccines went through clinical trials like other medications, but because of the severity of the pandemic they dovetailed with the EUA.  There's also the lie about them not going through animal testing when in fact they did.   There have now been billions of vaccine doses given and the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh any risks.  That is the bottom line.  Kids have a much greater chance of dying from Covid than any side effect associated with the vaccine.  Fact.  They have a very small overall chance of dying from Covid, true.  But when that kid is lying in the ICU trying to breathe, do you think they and their parents will then wish he or she had gotten vaccinated?  

 

You keep using the stuff about unknown side effects, and ignore the science of both previous vaccines as well as the Covid data.  The history of side effects with vaccines show they are very rare, and are found within weeks of immunization.  In fact, that the very slight risks with myocarditis and with the blood clots with the J&J vaccine show that, and show that the surveillance for side effects has been very robust and successful with the Covid vaccines.  The bottom line is that the risk of significant side effects with the vaccines are extraordinarily small.   Again fact.

 

You say I can't guarantee anything.  True.  I can't guarantee that someone gets the vaccine, walks out of the clinic and gets run over by a bus for example.  If you are asking for 100% guarantees about the vaccines, you are asking for the impossible.  No drug or vaccine ever invented in the history of mankind has ever come with a 100% guarantee of success with absolutely no side effects.  If you honestly believe that should be required, I suggest you go home. throw out every over the counter and prescription medicine you might have in your possession and live in a bubble.

 

One of our colleagues on this thread hit the nail on the head.  Getting young people to get vaccinated will be a challenge because young people feel invincible.  And the other reason as I indicated in a earlier post is that this pandemic has laid bare the fact that our society is no longer a society, and no one cares about their fellow man anymore.  The individual who could go out and get infected and pass it along to a parent or grandparent or neighbor doesn't care.  

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, Bockeye said:

Thank you - now your reading comprehension is on full display. I actually pointed out that the article is from March and ONLY just over 50% of HCW’s were vaccinated at that time. I then went on the state that the % picked up considerably after March because these HCW’s were coerced/forced to get the jab and thus the rate is higher now. 
 

Consider yourself schooled. 

 

Early in the vaccine cycle, a *survey* of HCWs had 50% of them vaccinated. You are really showing me. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

The vaccines went through clinical trials like other medications, but because of the severity of the pandemic they dovetailed with the EUA.  There's also the lie about them not going through animal testing when in fact they did.   There have now been billions of vaccine doses given and the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh any risks.  That is the bottom line.  Kids have a much greater chance of dying from Covid than any side effect associated with the vaccine.  Fact.  They have a very small overall chance of dying from Covid, true.  But when that kid is lying in the ICU trying to breathe, do you think they and their parents will then wish he or she had gotten vaccinated?  

 

You keep using the stuff about unknown side effects, and ignore the science of both previous vaccines as well as the Covid data.  The history of side effects with vaccines show they are very rare, and are found within weeks of immunization.  In fact, that the very slight risks with myocarditis and with the blood clots with the J&J vaccine show that, and show that the surveillance for side effects has been very robust and successful with the Covid vaccines.  The bottom line is that the risk of significant side effects with the vaccines are extraordinarily small.   Again fact.

 

You say I can't guarantee anything.  True.  I can't guarantee that someone gets the vaccine, walks out of the clinic and gets run over by a bus for example.  If you are asking for 100% guarantees about the vaccines, you are asking for the impossible.  No drug or vaccine ever invented in the history of mankind has ever come with a 100% guarantee of success with absolutely no side effects.  If you honestly believe that should be required, I suggest you go home. throw out every over the counter and prescription medicine you might have in your possession and live in a bubble.

 

One of our colleagues on this thread hit the nail on the head.  Getting young people to get vaccinated will be a challenge because young people feel invincible.  And the other reason as I indicated in a earlier post is that this pandemic has laid bare the fact that our society is no longer a society, and no one cares about their fellow man anymore.  The individual who could go out and get infected and pass it along to a parent or grandparent or neighbor doesn't care.  

I'm not going to argue the perceived or actual benefits of the vaccines.  I'm familiar with the clinical trial process and commercial pharma business and as it happens a couple of the  vaccine manufacturers are contracted clients of my organization.  Other parts of the organization generate daily stats and forecasts on COVID.  So I know the data pretty well and much of what the CDC distributes is provided by us too.  

So I'm not arguing numbers or probabilities but i also have additional insights I'm hesitant to discuss for several reasons.  And while the vaccines don't prevent you from getting sick, they don't prevent transmission, and the don't prevent the virus from replicating I'm not blaming the vaccines or their sponsors for that either.  Its more about the complex nature of treatment, the coronavirus and the respiratory system.  I should add one of the members of our team is a vaccine and immune system "expert" with 25 years experience in the field.  I wish I could share her explanation of COVID and the immune system.  Frankly it was the best explanation I've ever heard on the topic.  Much better and detailed than anything out of the CDC, FDA, NIH, or anywhere else.

And I didn't say all kids should be not be be vaccinated.  I said the decision should be based on the specific circumstances and the individual child's personal health profile and condition.  And a one-size-fits all approach is not the most effective approach.

My objection to mandates boils down to one simple question.  A question of accountability.  If somebody dies or develops some life-threatening condition because of government or corporate vaccine mandates that apply force and coercion to obtain compliance to their authority are they going to be held accountable personally, professionally, financially, legally, or in any other way for adverse consequences?  Because from where I sit if somebody is forcing me to do something they should also be accountable for the outcome.  My guess is that's not how it works here. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[GaryPinC]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'm not going to argue the perceived or actual benefits of the vaccines.  I'm familiar with the clinical trial process and commercial pharma business and as it happens a couple of the  vaccine manufacturers are contracted clients of my organization.  Other parts of the organization generate daily stats and forecasts on COVID.  So I know the data pretty well and much of what the CDC distributes is provided by us too.  

So I'm not arguing numbers or probabilities but i also have additional insights I'm hesitant to discuss for several reasons.  And while the vaccines don't prevent you from getting sick, they don't prevent transmission, and the don't prevent the virus from replicating I'm not blaming the vaccines or their sponsors for that either.  Its more about the complex nature of treatment, the coronavirus and the respiratory system.  I should add one of the members of our team is a vaccine and immune system "expert" with 25 years experience in the field.  I wish I could share her explanation of COVID and the immune system.  Frankly it was the best explanation I've ever heard on the topic.  Much better and detailed than anything out of the CDC, FDA, NIH, or anywhere else.

And I didn't say all kids should be not be be vaccinated.  I said the decision should be based on the specific circumstances and the individual child's personal health profile and condition.  And a one-size-fits all approach is not the most effective approach.

My objection to mandates boils down to one simple question.  A question of accountability.  If somebody dies or develops some life-threatening condition because of government or corporate vaccine mandates that apply force and coercion to obtain compliance to their authority are they going to be held accountable personally, professionally, financially, legally, or in any other way for adverse consequences?  Because from where I sit if somebody is forcing me to do something they should also be accountable for the outcome.  My guess is that's not how it works here. 

You have excellent points and I as a scientist highly respect your reasoned approach and thoughtful questions.

 

WRT immunizing kids, I personally am not in favor of it below 12 for various reasons.  But for teenagers I am and look at it this way:

 

What is most likely to have more far-reaching long term effects, the Covid virus or the mRNA vaccine?  The mRNA vaccine is short lived and mRNA is easily broken down, no DNA is involved.  Each mRNA molecule cannot replicate.  The opposite is true of Covid, including a lysogenic component where the virus incorporates into cell DNA to go silent and possibly re-emerge later.

 

Ok, vaccine side effects of clots and transient myocarditis.  Are these strictly problems from the vaccine structure or would these people have the same or larger issues if it had been a live Covid infection?

 

I have known 3 teenagers with confirmed or most likely covid:  My two nephews and my son.  My one nephew definitely had it while the other had no symptoms so it was never confirmed but my brother also had it so we suspect all 3 of them had it.  So all 3 teenagers had mild/no symptoms while infected.

 

Anyways, 2 out of 3 had bizzare side effects, my nephew had covid fingers (akin to "covid toes") for 2 months or so after recovery.  My son had  chest tightness and light headedness the week after he returned to football.  Was it respiratory or cardiac?  He definitely had headaches and brain fog and loss of taste while no problems breathing, just some upper respiratory congestion.

 

Now, 3+ weeks later he seems full healthy but still hasn't fully regained his taste yet.  WTF is that all about? 

 

I don't know but it's unsettling to me.  So many sit here quoting death/cases/hospitalizations but do people take a hard look at the stories of the people who recover and factor that in?  What other virus has these bizarre, lasting effects?  And some try and pretend Covid is just a routine virus?

Edited October 8, 2021 by GaryPinC

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

You have excellent points and I as a scientist highly respect your reasoned approach and thoughtful questions.

 

WRT immunizing kids, I personally am not in favor of it below 12 for various reasons.  But for teenagers I am and look at it this way:

 

What is most likely to have more far-reaching long term effects, the Covid virus or the mRNA vaccine?  The mRNA vaccine is short lived and mRNA is easily broken down, no DNA is involved.  Each mRNA molecule cannot replicate.  The opposite is true of Covid, including a lysogenic component where the virus incorporates into cell DNA to go silent and possibly re-emerge later.

 

Ok, vaccine side effects of clots and transient myocarditis.  Are these strictly problems from the vaccine structure or would these people have the same or larger issues if it had been a live Covid infection?

 

I have known 3 teenagers with confirmed or most likely covid:  My two nephews and my son.  My one nephew definitely had it while the other had no symptoms so it was never confirmed but my brother also had it so we suspect all 3 of them had it.  So all 3 teenagers had mild/no symptoms while infected.

 

Anyways, 2 out of 3 had bizzare side effects, my nephew had covid fingers (akin to "covid toes") for 2 months or so after recovery.  My son had  chest tightness and light headedness the week after he returned to football.  Was it respiratory or cardiac?  He definitely had headaches and brain fog and loss of taste while no problems breathing, just some upper respiratory congestion.

 

Now, 3+ weeks later he seems full healthy but still hasn't fully regained his taste yet.  WTF is that all about? 

 

I don't know but it's unsettling to me.  So many sit here quoting death/cases/hospitalizations but do people take a hard look at the stories of the people who recover and factor that in?  What other virus has these bizarre, lasting effects?  And some try and pretend Covid is just a routine virus?

Morbidity associated with Covid should be tracked and reported to the same extent as mortality.

[Orlando Tim]

this is horrifying. A mother using her child's condition to push a political point that should not matter to her daughter. If her daughter is immunocompromised she should not be sending her to school period. Every county in Florida has specific programs to deal with children like her. I truly feel for the child but this mother needs to more honest with the kid.

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The vaccines went through clinical trials like other medications, but because of the severity of the pandemic they dovetailed with the EUA.  There's also the lie about them not going through animal testing when in fact they did.   There have now been billions of vaccine doses given and the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh any risks.  That is the bottom line.  Kids have a much greater chance of dying from Covid than any side effect associated with the vaccine.  Fact.  They have a very small overall chance of dying from Covid, true.  But when that kid is lying in the ICU trying to breathe, do you think they and their parents will then wish he or she had gotten vaccinated?  

 

You keep using the stuff about unknown side effects, and ignore the science of both previous vaccines as well as the Covid data.  The history of side effects with vaccines show they are very rare, and are found within weeks of immunization.  In fact, that the very slight risks with myocarditis and with the blood clots with the J&J vaccine show that, and show that the surveillance for side effects has been very robust and successful with the Covid vaccines.  The bottom line is that the risk of significant side effects with the vaccines are extraordinarily small.   Again fact.

 

You say I can't guarantee anything.  True.  I can't guarantee that someone gets the vaccine, walks out of the clinic and gets run over by a bus for example.  If you are asking for 100% guarantees about the vaccines, you are asking for the impossible.  No drug or vaccine ever invented in the history of mankind has ever come with a 100% guarantee of success with absolutely no side effects.  If you honestly believe that should be required, I suggest you go home. throw out every over the counter and prescription medicine you might have in your possession and live in a bubble.

 

One of our colleagues on this thread hit the nail on the head.  Getting young people to get vaccinated will be a challenge because young people feel invincible.  And the other reason as I indicated in a earlier post is that this pandemic has laid bare the fact that our society is no longer a society, and no one cares about their fellow man anymore.  The individual who could go out and get infected and pass it along to a parent or grandparent or neighbor doesn't care.  

Of course they care, you're too close to this sometimes and you lose perspective.  Like it or not, everything that went before factors into the way folks look at the virus and vaccine.   Off the top of my head:

• Most folks generally don't trust politicians and the process, and the last few years have been offered a plethora of reasons to absolutely, categorically and fundamentally run the opposite way that politicians point you in.  That is irrespective of party affiliation.
• We had lockdowns for most, to the point that the police were involved, ugliness ensued, and businesses were shuttered.  Yet, mass gatherings and in some cases, riots, were encouraged and tolerated.  Interestingly, the folks involved in the protest often hit the demographic of many vax hesitant people we talk about today, and presumably a large part voted for the guy in office today.  More interesting, perhaps, in 2020 the guy in office and his partner were among prominent politicians smacktalking the vax they are being shamed for not taking now.  
• We had more outrage over that old geez who conked his noggin on the cement after he grabbed at that officer's groin then we did the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions?) of people spreading the virus near and far.  
• We had prominent politicians responsible for bringing the hammer down on non-compliant citizens openly flouting the rules and guidance coming directly from the top.  The hypocrisy was, and often is, stunning.  
• Fauci, once the face of the 'save the nation' crowd has revealed himself to be a boob, with more waffles than the local IHOP. 
• The lack of transparency on the origins of the virus, the involvement of the US in the facility where it all apparently started, the timing of the virus release to coincide with our election cycle, and the very strange lack of any major mainstream coverage or political investigation in who the %$#@ allowed the vid to escape the lab seems at face value very odd. 
• The "mandate"  has been a clusterf^ck, with Biden trying to thread the needle between looking strong, hammering the vax, and not upsetting a large portion of his base.  If the world and country is in peril, he should ask Dr Jill for the jar she keeps his nuts in and do something bold.  Instead, we get 'meh'. 

 

People pay attention and smell b*ll sh*t and react accordingly.  There are many, many reasons people lack trust in the people telling them what they need to do.  That has nothing to do with wanting to infect grannie, or the neighbor down the street, or anything else.  I think virtually any time you get "Hey, we're the government just trust us!" you're going to get push back from a large segment of the population.  Regardless of how you, individually as a scientist feel, most of the key players are categorized as 'government' fairly or not. 

[SCBills]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

this is horrifying. A mother using her child's condition to push a political point that should not matter to her daughter. If her daughter is immunocompromised she should not be sending her to school period. Every county in Florida has specific programs to deal with children like her. I truly feel for the child but this mother needs to more honest with the kid.

 

 

Good thing COVID is the only respiratory virus ever….
 

How did her parents protect her from flu seasons?  Just do the same thing. 

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Of course they care, you're too close to this sometimes and you lose perspective.  Like it or not, everything that went before factors into the way folks look at the virus and vaccine.   Off the top of my head:

• Most folks generally don't trust politicians and the process, and the last few years have been offered a plethora of reasons to absolutely, categorically and fundamentally run the opposite way that politicians point you in.  That is irrespective of party affiliation.
• We had lockdowns for most, to the point that the police were involved, ugliness ensued, and businesses were shuttered.  Yet, mass gatherings and in some cases, riots, were encouraged and tolerated.  Interestingly, the folks involved in the protest often hit the demographic of many vax hesitant people we talk about today, and presumably a large part voted for the guy in office today.  More interesting, perhaps, in 2020 the guy in office and his partner were among prominent politicians smacktalking the vax they are being shamed for not taking now.  
• We had more outrage over that old geez who conked his noggin on the cement after he grabbed at that officer's groin then we did the hundreds of thousands (maybe millions?) of people spreading the virus near and far.  
• We had prominent politicians responsible for bringing the hammer down on non-compliant citizens openly flouting the rules and guidance coming directly from the top.  The hypocrisy was, and often is, stunning.  
• Fauci, once the face of the 'save the nation' crowd has revealed himself to be a boob, with more waffles than the local IHOP. 
• The lack of transparency on the origins of the virus, the involvement of the US in the facility where it all apparently started, the timing of the virus release to coincide with our election cycle, and the very strange lack of any major mainstream coverage or political investigation in who the %$#@ allowed the vid to escape the lab seems at face value very odd. 
• The "mandate"  has been a clusterf^ck, with Biden trying to thread the needle between looking strong, hammering the vax, and not upsetting a large portion of his base.  If the world and country is in peril, he should ask Dr Jill for the jar she keeps his nuts in and do something bold.  Instead, we get 'meh'. 

 

People pay attention and smell b*ll sh*t and react accordingly.  There are many, many reasons people lack trust in the people telling them what they need to do.  That has nothing to do with wanting to infect grannie, or the neighbor down the street, or anything else.  I think virtually any time you get "Hey, we're the government just trust us!" you're going to get push back from a large segment of the population.  Regardless of how you, individually as a scientist feel, most of the key players are categorized as 'government' fairly or not. 

You think people care, but sadly to me attitudes many times say the opposite.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

11 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You think people care, but sadly to me attitudes many times say the opposite.

We are who we are. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

Quick reminder of the obvious.

 

Just because there is not a school mandate for masks, does NOT mean that you cannot wear one as your choice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GaryPinC]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

this is horrifying. A mother using her child's condition to push a political point that should not matter to her daughter. If her daughter is immunocompromised she should not be sending her to school period. Every county in Florida has specific programs to deal with children like her. I truly feel for the child but this mother needs to more honest with the kid.

 

 

Yeah, send her in an N-95 mask, sheesh.  Definitely a bunch of political garbage here.

[Big Blitz]

Why did cases plummet once maskless school started in mandate free Florida?

 

 

Crazy.

[The Frankish Reich]

15 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

 

As I have said numerous times here, medicine is about benefit vs. risk.  The numbers here suggest that there is a benefit to the vaccine, in that you have a 10 fold higher chance of dying from Covid than myocarditis in the younger age group. 

Thanks for this moment of sanity. Just a really well reasoned, succinct post. In the rational world it would convince nearly everyone. Here? Umm, guess not.

9 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

There are many, many reasons people lack trust in the people telling them what they need to do.  That has nothing to do with wanting to infect grannie, or the neighbor down the street, or anything else.  I think virtually any time you get "Hey, we're the government just trust us!" you're going to get push back from a large segment of the population.  Regardless of how you, individually as a scientist feel, most of the key players are categorized as 'government' fairly or not. 

tl;dr: The internet social media makes you stupid.

[Big Blitz]

THE VAXX IS A STATE-SPONSORED RELIGION

 

Even Stevie Wonder could see it: When you believe in things you don’t understand, you suffer; superstition ain’t the way.

 

Covid has become a religion. American Vaxxers, more accurately labeled “injectors,” believe in something they don’t understand. Injectors don’t understand that the injections don’t resemble prior vaxxes. They can’t explain the mRNA mechanism by which the injections are said to work. They’re also unaware that the number of near-term post-injection deaths after 9 months of Covid injections exceeds the death tolls from all vaccinations combined over the past 30 years. They know nothing about the long term safety of the injections, nor of data revealing breakthrough deaths in the US and abroad. Nor do they know, after 19 months of media fearmongering, that the vast majority of people are at functionally zero risk from Covid. They watch too much TV.

 

Using the vaxx label is misleading, and required the CDC to recently change its catechistic definition of “vaccine.” After the Covid-19 vaccines were introduced, and it was discovered they did not necessarily "prevent disease" or "provide immunity," the CDC quietly altered the definition of vaccines to require that they merely "produce protection." Calling the Covid injections “vaccines” is like comparing Britney Spears to Miles Davis by calling them both “musicians.”

 

Americans’ faith in medicine now exceeds their faith in a Supreme Being. Americans have been brainwashed by decades of fictional TV shows with actors portraying heroic, brilliant, compassionate MDs. More recently, Americans have been shown endless hospital and Pharma ads of smiling people strolling in slow motion through golden light across flowery meadows, accompanied by a loved one and soft, ruminative background piano. Adeptly propagandized, all things medical have become subliminally associated with healing, health and earthly Eden. This illusion persists despite many Americans’ frequently expressed real-life dissatisfaction with medical personnel, procedures, hospitals and results obtained, including long lists of dreadful drug side effects, read rapidly at the ads’ ends: cognitive dissonance.....

 

....The injectors brook no dissent or questions from heretics. In making everyone inject, the government doesn’t care if you’re young and healthy and at no risk. Neither does the government care if you’ve had the virus already and, therefore, have developed natural immunity that’s 27 times more robust than injected immunity. Nor does it care to which of the various brands of injections you submit. They also don’t care if the injections are effective against a variety of continually evolving virus variants. The government only wants you to inject something. The Injection Crusade is clearly about control, submission and deception, not public health. It feels like a fraternity hazing ritual, only riskier and more lucrative.

 

None of this would be so bad if the injectors just injected and went about their lives: faith should be its own reward. Instead, the injectors insist on foisting their deeply mistaken dogma on others. These New Age, physically invasive, injection proselytizers won’t be satisfied until they convert everyone. They demand that you bend the knee to the government and the Medical/Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex; the line between the two is blurry...

 

...The injection end game is this: if everyone injects, there will be no control group, and Biden and Fauci will claim that the injections saved humanity. Thus, the shots are a deceitful backdoor effort to falsely justify the purported—but utterly failed— Covid Commandments: lockdowns, arbitrary social distancing, mass testing, contact tracing and mask mandates, and to obscure the inexorable protection bestowed by natural herd immunity.

 

But Big Pharma can’t make tens of billions from natural immunity. Nor can politicians claim credit for it. So the Covid Inquisition continues.

 

....

America doesn’t—or at least didn’t use to—take away people’s livelihoods and basic civil rights because they don’t share the beliefs of an official state religion. Rather, Americans recoil at the notion of theocracy; it’s fundamentally anathema, a characteristic of Iran or Saudi Arabia. The Orthodox injection crusaders must not be allowed to foist their mistaken beliefs on those infidels who have studied and know the injections are, at best, a scam and wish to apply their knowledge in the exercise of their natural law sovereignty over their own bodies.

 

The lockdowns, mask mandates, school closings and absurd social distancing rules have already done far too much deep, irreversible harm. The injection jihad must end.

 

https://markoshinskie8de.substack.com/p/the-vaxx-is-a-state-sponsored-religion

Edited October 9, 2021 by Big Blitz

[BillStime]

 

[billsfan5121]

7 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Funny how none of the three have done anything.

[oldmanfan]

4 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

THE VAXX IS A STATE-SPONSORED RELIGION

 

Even Stevie Wonder could see it: When you believe in things you don’t understand, you suffer; superstition ain’t the way.

 

Covid has become a religion. American Vaxxers, more accurately labeled “injectors,” believe in something they don’t understand. Injectors don’t understand that the injections don’t resemble prior vaxxes. They can’t explain the mRNA mechanism by which the injections are said to work. They’re also unaware that the number of near-term post-injection deaths after 9 months of Covid injections exceeds the death tolls from all vaccinations combined over the past 30 years. They know nothing about the long term safety of the injections, nor of data revealing breakthrough deaths in the US and abroad. Nor do they know, after 19 months of media fearmongering, that the vast majority of people are at functionally zero risk from Covid. They watch too much TV.

 

Using the vaxx label is misleading, and required the CDC to recently change its catechistic definition of “vaccine.” After the Covid-19 vaccines were introduced, and it was discovered they did not necessarily "prevent disease" or "provide immunity," the CDC quietly altered the definition of vaccines to require that they merely "produce protection." Calling the Covid injections “vaccines” is like comparing Britney Spears to Miles Davis by calling them both “musicians.”

 

Americans’ faith in medicine now exceeds their faith in a Supreme Being. Americans have been brainwashed by decades of fictional TV shows with actors portraying heroic, brilliant, compassionate MDs. More recently, Americans have been shown endless hospital and Pharma ads of smiling people strolling in slow motion through golden light across flowery meadows, accompanied by a loved one and soft, ruminative background piano. Adeptly propagandized, all things medical have become subliminally associated with healing, health and earthly Eden. This illusion persists despite many Americans’ frequently expressed real-life dissatisfaction with medical personnel, procedures, hospitals and results obtained, including long lists of dreadful drug side effects, read rapidly at the ads’ ends: cognitive dissonance.....

 

....The injectors brook no dissent or questions from heretics. In making everyone inject, the government doesn’t care if you’re young and healthy and at no risk. Neither does the government care if you’ve had the virus already and, therefore, have developed natural immunity that’s 27 times more robust than injected immunity. Nor does it care to which of the various brands of injections you submit. They also don’t care if the injections are effective against a variety of continually evolving virus variants. The government only wants you to inject something. The Injection Crusade is clearly about control, submission and deception, not public health. It feels like a fraternity hazing ritual, only riskier and more lucrative.

 

None of this would be so bad if the injectors just injected and went about their lives: faith should be its own reward. Instead, the injectors insist on foisting their deeply mistaken dogma on others. These New Age, physically invasive, injection proselytizers won’t be satisfied until they convert everyone. They demand that you bend the knee to the government and the Medical/Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex; the line between the two is blurry...

 

...The injection end game is this: if everyone injects, there will be no control group, and Biden and Fauci will claim that the injections saved humanity. Thus, the shots are a deceitful backdoor effort to falsely justify the purported—but utterly failed— Covid Commandments: lockdowns, arbitrary social distancing, mass testing, contact tracing and mask mandates, and to obscure the inexorable protection bestowed by natural herd immunity.

 

But Big Pharma can’t make tens of billions from natural immunity. Nor can politicians claim credit for it. So the Covid Inquisition continues.

 

....

America doesn’t—or at least didn’t use to—take away people’s livelihoods and basic civil rights because they don’t share the beliefs of an official state religion. Rather, Americans recoil at the notion of theocracy; it’s fundamentally anathema, a characteristic of Iran or Saudi Arabia. The Orthodox injection crusaders must not be allowed to foist their mistaken beliefs on those infidels who have studied and know the injections are, at best, a scam and wish to apply their knowledge in the exercise of their natural law sovereignty over their own bodies.

 

The lockdowns, mask mandates, school closings and absurd social distancing rules have already done far too much deep, irreversible harm. The injection jihad must end.

 

https://markoshinskie8de.substack.com/p/the-vaxx-is-a-state-sponsored-religion

This is the most ridiculous thing you’ve posted yet.  And that’s saying something.

12 minutes ago, billsfan5121 said:

Funny how none of the three have done anything.

Equally ridiculous.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

 

9 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

tl;dr: The internet social media makes you stupid.

It also brings out the douchish in some people.  In honor of your internet namesake, I forgive you.