It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[JaCrispy]

42 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The core issue with the mandates has nothing to do with science.  It's politicians and bureaucrats that are co-opting science and medicine and selectively using it (while ignoring science that doesn't support their positions) as a pretext for issuing all kinds of draconian edicts and imposing multi-tiered social restrictions and increasing levels of authoritarian rule.  And instituting some "collective" social doctrine that just doesn't exist in our system of laws and constitutional protections of the individual.  Does anyone believe these restrictions are going to go away with the COVID pandemic ending? 

 

And in the process they have done great damage to the credibility and effectiveness of science and the medical community.  The result is a large percentage of the population, some that were already distrustful, don't believe much of what is passed off as science.  Especially when so much effort is made to suppress and silence ideas and experts that express views and insights that contradict the prevailing narrative.  "Vaccines are safe and effective".  So shut up and stop bringing up any other facts or ideas.  Just do what we say or else.  Under that context why trust the science? 

 

Look at how they totally trashed Ivermectin.  What's the motivation for that?  Its not science I can say for sure.  Does it work for COVID?  Personally I can't say but there is little doubt from officials in India that it was the "cure" that suppressed their Delta outbreak.  But in the US its "horse de-wormer".  Never mind its an approved FDA drug for several serious indications in humans.  The suspicion this all creates is anything that's cheap, plentiful, and effective is a threat to the vaccine mandate and the people running policy.  So the science gets trashed. 

 

The problem isn't the vaxed or the unvaxed, its the politicians ruining science and medicine for their own objectives and their suspension of the free thinking process of discovery through the scientific method.  That's our common enemy - ignorance generated by politicians.

 

Brilliantly said...and I agree 100%

 

I’ve always said it’s the lying and censorship of information, by the government, big tech, and Fauci, that is making people vaccine hesitant...

 

People are feeling that there is an ulterior motive why they are suppressing other remedies that have been shown to work...it’s people’s gut instinct, that things are not adding up...

 

And now, the threats to people’s livelihoods, especially healthcare workers- when we already had shortages, is only adding fuel to the fire...👍

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And the rage continues day after day after day. Have any of you noticed that you’ve not changed a SINGLE opinion? Like most people on here I’ve been fully vaccinated for months. For goodness sake’s we do NOT have a vaccine problem. We have a messaging problem! And the people who claim to be in charge have done a flat out horrible job of adapting the message. It’s time to get to fricking work Joe! It’s not as easy it looks sitting on some worthless Senate committee for decades on end questioning and overseeing other people. You’re in the big chair now Joe! You’re the one actually responsible for shaping AND delivering the message….and you clearly suck at it!

What exactly should he do?  He stands up and tells people to get it but they’d rather believe nut case conspiracy garbage.  So he then goes to mandates and people get up in arms.  
 

If you’re advising him give me two things you’d say to do.

Edited October 10, 2021 by oldmanfan

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

What exactly should he do?  He stands up and tells ripple to get it but they’d rather believe nut case conspiracy garbage.  So he then goes to mandates and people get up in arms.  
 

If you’re advising him give me two things you’d say to do.

First…get rid of Fauchi…TODAY! He is the poster child for the messaging problem.

Second…re-establish a science and data based regular reporting on the status of the pandemic. You cannot leave your messaging to CNN! 
Third, if you’re going to mandate vaccines…JUST DO IT!!! Getting up there every couple of weeks and threatening your own citizens is making you look ridiculous. 
Fourth…get to work! You can’t control a pandemic from your basement. If the American people see the President spending more time surrendering in Afghanistan and worrying about climate change and a massive spending Bill, do you not think they get the idea that you don’t yourself think the pandemic isn’t the number one focus?

 

And those are right off the top of my head on a Sunday morning.

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

First…get rid of Fauchi…TODAY! He is the poster child for the messaging problem.

Second…re-establish a science and data based regular reporting on the status of the pandemic. You cannot leave your messaging to CNN! 
Third, if you’re going to mandate vaccines…JUST DO IT!!! Getting up there every couple of weeks and threatening your own citizens is making you look ridiculous. 
Fourth…get to work! You can’t control a pandemic from your basement. If the American people see the President spending more time surrendering in Afghanistan and worrying about climate change and a massive spending Bill, do you not think they get the idea that you don’t yourself think the pandemic isn’t the number one focus?

 

And those are right off the top of my head on a Sunday morning.

 

I agree with 2 and 3.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I agree with 2 and 3.

Thats why we work so well together! I find it interesting though that you don’t agree with #1. Fauci is the single biggest problem. If Joe really wants to change the messaging you HAVE TO change the messenger. He has to go.

[JaCrispy]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Thats why we work so well together! I find it interesting though that you don’t agree with #1. Fauci is the single biggest problem. If Joe really wants to change the messaging you HAVE TO change the messenger. He has to go.

Yup...and Fauci has already admitted, several times, that he has lied about masks and herd immunity, among other things...furthermore, his leaked emails have caused his credibility to be shot among most of the public...

Edited October 10, 2021 by JaCrispy

[oldmanfan]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

Yup...and Fauci has already admitted, several times, that he has lied about masks and herd immunity, among other things...his credibility is shot among most of the public...

He did not lie about masks and this has been debunked numerous times.  When the pandemic first started he said the public should not wear masks because masks should be kept for health care workers.  As more data became available as to how different types of masks could mitigate the spread of droplets, he said so.

 

One of the most frustrating things for me with the pandemic is that so many people do not understand how science works.  Or more accurately understand but willfully deny.  As more research is done and more data is obtained you change your theories.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

What exactly should he do?  He stands up and tells people to get it but they’d rather believe nut case conspiracy garbage.  So he then goes to mandates and people get up in arms.  
 

If you’re advising him give me two things you’d say to do.

This is a softball question:

 

1.  Stop screwing around with mandates that send mixed messages.  The current mandate targets large organizations with massive fines for non-compliance in forcing employers to make a voluntary vaccine mandatory.  It stinks of yet just another revenue grab.   
 

Make the vaccine mandatory for everyone with few exceptions.  Suspend benefits—unemployment, public assistance, social security—for those that remain unvaccinated after a specific date.   
 

This moron is playing the very political game you rage about and yet you give him a pass.  
 

2.  Address the public in a nationally televised speech.  Take responsibility for &$#@ing this thing up from the start, for allowing members of his team to speak against the vaccine in the run up to the election, clarify the involvement of our government in research in Wuhan if indeed we are involved.  
 

3.  Encourage Fauci to resign.  He’s been a disaster.  
 

4.  Take some non-scripted questions for God’s sake.   He should take some questions to show his mastery of his principle obligation here—that of leader of the American people.   He allows himself to be lead around like the senior tenant in a long term care facility.  This gives the appearance that he’s not in control, that someone behind the scenes is calling the shots, and who the *&$# ever wants that?   
 

He’s been an unmitigated disaster, and it was absolutely predictable. Why are you giving him a pass?   

 

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is a softball question:

 

1.  Stop screwing around with mandates that send mixed messages.  The current mandate targets large organizations with massive fines for non-compliance in forcing employers to make a voluntary vaccine mandatory.  It stinks of yet just another revenue grab.   
 

Make the vaccine mandatory for everyone with few exceptions.  Suspend benefits—unemployment, public assistance, social security—for those that remain unvaccinated after a specific date.   
 

This moron is playing the very political game you rage about and yet you give him a pass.  
 

2.  Address the public in a nationally televised speech.  Take responsibility for &$#@ing this thing up from the start, for allowing members of his team to speak against the vaccine in the run up to the election, clarify the involvement of our government in research in Wuhan if indeed we are involved.  
 

3.  Encourage Fauci to resign.  He’s been a disaster.  
 

4.  Take some non-scripted questions for God’s sake.   He should take some questions to show his mastery of his principle obligation here—that of leader of the American people.   He allows himself to be lead around like the senior tenant in a long term care facility.  This gives the appearance that he’s not in control, that someone behind the scenes is calling the shots, and who the *&$# ever wants that?   
 

He’s been an unmitigated disaster, and it was absolutely predictable. Why are you giving him a pass?   

 

I just said if I were him I would make it mandated for all.  And you saw how pissed I was about Afghanistan.  So spare me the giving him a pass stuff.

Edited October 10, 2021 by oldmanfan

[JaCrispy]

28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He did not lie about masks and this has been debunked numerous times.  When the pandemic first started he said the public should not wear masks because masks should be kept for health care workers.  As more data became available as to how different types of masks could mitigate the spread of droplets, he said so.

 

One of the most frustrating things for me with the pandemic is that so many people do not understand how science works.  Or more accurately understand but willfully deny.  As more research is done and more data is obtained you change your theories.

I’m sorry Oldman...I respect you as a poster because I believe you are genuine in your posts, unlike some other posters...

 

But I have to admit, that you’re greatly mistaken about Fauci lying about masks- and here he is actually admitting it...

 

By the way, for the record, Jimmy Dore is a leftist progressive, who supports Bernie Sanders’ policies,  just so you don’t think he is some MAGA right winger...👍

Edited October 10, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Orlando Tim]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I just said if I were him I would make it mandated for all.  And you saw how pissed I was about Afghanistan.  So spare me the giving him a pass stuff.

Are you stating that you think the vaccine should be mandatory for everyone who is eligible? I might have missed something in a transition

[oldmanfan]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Are you stating that you think the vaccine should be mandatory for everyone who is eligible? I might have missed something in a transition

I asked SoCalDeek what he would do if he were Biden since he keeps criticizing him, and that is what he said.  So I agreed.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

56 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I just said if I were him I would make it mandated for all.  And you saw how pissed I was about Afghanistan.  So spare me the giving him a pass stuff.

I guess I misunderstood your earlier post.  I read “What exactly should he do” and he told people, they don’t listen (my words, not yours) as a giant shoulder shrug.  
 

You generally don’t strike me as a shoulder shrug guy.  You’ve absolutely been vocal about your thoughts and beliefs on this subject, and a few of your responses might be considered by some to be extreme.   I recognize that those times might have been due to frustration, or emotional investment due to your life’s work, but I don’t sense that same passion with Biden.  
 

He’s the Commander-in-Chief, and beyond the occasional “Grandpa knows best” appearance under tightly controlled circumstances he’s AWOL  while the infection rages.  Honestly, I’d have thought you would call for his resignation.  
 

On the flip side, it’s clear you’re passionate about the country and your fellow citizens, so I would have been stunned if you did not express outrage at his handling of Afghanistan.  He had so many options to pursue and it appears he chose the one specifically that would result in maximum  death, injury and chaos.  It’s almost like he wants the problems there so at some future point, the US can intervene again.   

Edited October 10, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[All_Pro_Bills]

57 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is a softball question:

 

1.  Stop screwing around with mandates that send mixed messages.  The current mandate targets large organizations with massive fines for non-compliance in forcing employers to make a voluntary vaccine mandatory.  It stinks of yet just another revenue grab.   
 

Make the vaccine mandatory for everyone with few exceptions.  Suspend benefits—unemployment, public assistance, social security—for those that remain unvaccinated after a specific date.   
 

This moron is playing the very political game you rage about and yet you give him a pass.  
 

2.  Address the public in a nationally televised speech.  Take responsibility for &$#@ing this thing up from the start, for allowing members of his team to speak against the vaccine in the run up to the election, clarify the involvement of our government in research in Wuhan if indeed we are involved.  
 

3.  Encourage Fauci to resign.  He’s been a disaster.  
 

4.  Take some non-scripted questions for God’s sake.   He should take some questions to show his mastery of his principle obligation here—that of leader of the American people.   He allows himself to be lead around like the senior tenant in a long term care facility.  This gives the appearance that he’s not in control, that someone behind the scenes is calling the shots, and who the *&$# ever wants that?   
 

He’s been an unmitigated disaster, and it was absolutely predictable. Why are you giving him a pass?   

 

I'd argue making the vaccine "mandatory" through direct government edict vs. the current approach to force the private sector to act as a government "proxy" in the enforcement of the order raises a couple questions.  One is the Constitutionality of the mandate.  The Constitutional questions have been discussed here and elsewhere already. 

But the second, and perhaps the most interesting, is the requirement to prove necessity of the order.  I'd expect the objecting legal team and the court would demand the government disclose (as a matter of standard legal practice) all their evidence.  Show me all your data, conclusions, arguments pro & con, and expert opinions and assessments for and against the mandate in an open and public court of law setting for all to see and hear.  Justify scientifically and medically that COVID is such a great public health risk that it requires a vaccine mandate for the entire population.  Prove its necessary and the mandate is justified by the risk.  The truth and nothing but the whole truth.  Frankly I would welcome this opportunity to hear all views without censorship, without pre-judgment, without prejudice.  But my question to all this is this.  Do you thing the political establishment feels the same way?  Do they want to air all their laundry out there in the yard for everyone to see.  What if all the data taken together shows the virus isn't as big a risk as they're making it to be? What then?  Who's going to explain all of that to the public?  

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I'd argue making the vaccine "mandatory" through direct government edict vs. the current approach to force the private sector to act as a government "proxy" in the enforcement of the order raises a couple questions.  One is the Constitutionality of the mandate.  The Constitutional questions have been discussed here and elsewhere already. 

But the second, and perhaps the most interesting, is the requirement to prove necessity of the order.  I'd expect the objecting legal team and the court would demand the government disclose (as a matter of standard legal practice) all their evidence.  Show me all your data, conclusions, arguments pro & con, and expert opinions and assessments for and against the mandate in an open and public court of law setting for all to see and hear.  Justify scientifically and medically that COVID is such a great public health risk that it requires a vaccine mandate for the entire population.  Prove its necessary and the mandate is justified by the risk.  The truth and nothing but the whole truth.  Frankly I would welcome this opportunity to hear all views without censorship, without pre-judgment, without prejudice.  But my question to all this is this.  Do you thing the political establishment feels the same way?  Do they want to air all their laundry out there in the yard for everyone to see.  What if all the data taken together shows the virus isn't as big a risk as they're making it to be? What then?  Who's going to explain all of that to the public?  

I feel like I win the occasional internet argument but this much is certain, my wife is undefeated in shaming me into yard work or putting the patio furniture away in a timely fashion over the last 36 years.  
 

More on this later.  You’re on to something here. 

[B-Man]

 

We can’t help but notice the media didn’t cover the sickout with the airlines. Hrm.

 

Hardly a peep and then when it was finally discussed it was about a staffing shortage.

 

No mention of the sickout.

 

And then Southwest Airlines, who allegedly was impacted the most, tweeted that it was ATC issues and disruptive weather.

 

Huh.

 

 

 

 

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/10/10/gosh-it-looks-like-southwest-airlines-may-have-tried-to-cover-up-the-massive-anti-mandate-sickout-that-impacted-1000-flights/

 

 

[B-Man]

 

I’VE SEEN THE LOCKDOWN AND THE DAMAGE DONE: 

 

Study confirms rise in child abuse during COVID-19 pandemic. 

 

“There was a great deal of economic stress, job insecurity, and loss of housing potential during this time frame along with the closing of schools, which can be a reprieve for parents and kids.” These weren’t consequences of Covid, they were consequences of the response to Covid.

 

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/10/09/covid19-child-abuse-spike/8831633724675/

 

 

 

Excess deaths in people with mental health conditions increased during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

 

Note that they improved as lockdowns eased.

 

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-10-excess-deaths-people-mental-health.html

 

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

For those who insist on government mandates , I’d propose that a vaccine mandate be issued for those who are at high risk for Covid complications : ie Obese, diabetic , cardio issues etc. Mandate the vaccine and a stringent diet/ exercise program for them. No mitigation requirements for anyone else. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

4 hours ago, B-Man said:

 

We can’t help but notice the media didn’t cover the sickout with the airlines. Hrm.

 

Hardly a peep and then when it was finally discussed it was about a staffing shortage.

 

No mention of the sickout.

 

And then Southwest Airlines, who allegedly was impacted the most, tweeted that it was ATC issues and disruptive weather.

 

Huh.

 

 

 

 

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/10/10/gosh-it-looks-like-southwest-airlines-may-have-tried-to-cover-up-the-massive-anti-mandate-sickout-that-impacted-1000-flights/

 

 

Pilots and other employees are protesting the COVID vaccine mandates.  Once again the media refuses to tell the truth and confirming they are less than useless.

 

Curious how this catches on elsewhere.  Possibly trucker strikes from organized Teamsters, FedEx, USP workers.  Utility crews staying home.  And others.  I hope Biden and Fauci and their mandate crew are good at climbing poles and driving 18-wheelers (incidentally one of the many blue collar skills Joe claims to have).  Workers are telling their employers and the government what they think about the mandate.  Basically F U.  You want mandates?  Well, we're going to shut the system down.  What are you going to do about it?  Fly the planes, drive the trucks, unload and load the ships, keep the lights and water on?  Power to the people!     

[Big Blitz]

Fauci: COVID cases must go ‘way down’ before vaxxed Americans can ditch masks indoors

 

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci on Sunday said COVID-19 cases would need to go “way down” before most vaccinated Americans can safely gather publicly indoors without masks.

 

“It’s about 95,000 [cases nationwide per day] as the seven-day average. That’s still way too high,’ Fauci told CNN’s “State of the Union” when asked what the threshold would have to be to ease the CDC’s indoor-mask recommendation for even most vaccinated people.

 

“We want to get way, way down to … I mean, I like to see it well below 10,000 [cases per day] and even much lower than that,” he said.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/10/10/fauci-covid-cases-must-go-way-down-to-adjust-mask-mandates/

 

 

That's never ever going to happen....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And what is that # based on?  What about state by state?  

 

Dupes.  All of you

 

 

 

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

I’m sorry Oldman...I respect you as a poster because I believe you are genuine in your posts, unlike some other posters...

 

But I have to admit, that you’re greatly mistaken about Fauci lying about masks- and here he is actually admitting it...

 

By the way, for the record, Jimmy Dore is a leftist progressive, who supports Bernie Sanders’ policies,  just so you don’t think he is some MAGA right winger...👍

Devastating takedown.  
 

When he brings up the point about Fauci misleading people about the masks and sending them to die, it sort of dove tails back into the theory that death and suffering were good for the Dems and establishment players in 2019.  
 

I’ll be interested in @oldmanfan’s take on this.  

[Big Blitz]

Masks forever in the schools

 

 

[oldmanfan]

4 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Devastating takedown.  
 

When he brings up the point about Fauci misleading people about the masks and sending them to die, it sort of dove tails back into the theory that death and suffering were good for the Dems and establishment players in 2019.  
 

I’ll be interested in @oldmanfan’s take on this.  

Here it is.  The video proves my point.  In March 2020 when Dr. Fauci was interviewed he said the general public did not need to wear masks because health care workers needed them.  And as further research as to how the virus spread primarily through droplets, and that not only N95 masks but surgical as well as cloth masks could mitigate spread, recommendations changed.  The CDC started recommending masks and social distancing.

 

That is called science.  I do agree with the left wing guy that the full resources of the country could have been put into action to make a ton of masks early on.  But remind me: who was running the country in the spring of 2020?

Edited October 11, 2021 by oldmanfan

[SoCal Deek]

9 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I asked SoCalDeek what he would do if he were Biden since he keeps criticizing him, and that is what he said.  So I agreed.

Just to clarify: What I said was if Biden is going to mandate vaccines he should do it. I don’t personally agree with mandating it and I think Biden knows that he doesn’t have the power to do it…therefore he hasn’t!  We were having a discussion about MESSAGING, not about vaccines. So stop threatening everyone unless you’re going to carry out your threats. It makes for horrible and ineffective MESSAGING. Make sense?

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

23 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Here it is.  The video proves my point.  In March 3020 when Dr. Fauci was interviewed he said the general public did not need to wear masks because health care workers needed them.  And as further research as to how the virus spread primarily through droplets, and that not only N95 masks but surgical as well as cloth masks could mitigate spread, recommendations changed.  The CDC started recommending masks and social distancing.

 

That is called science.  I do agree with the left wing guy that the full resources of the country could have been put into action to make a ton of masks early on.  But remind me: who was running the country in the spring of 2020?

Donald Trump was President in the spring of 2020.  Are you having a Biden moment? 
 

In retrospect, though, you inadvertently make a good point— it seems clear Trump should have relieved your science guy from his post.  There is a marked difference between suggesting the general public “did not need to wear masks” and “Sorry folks, you have to sacrifice because there is a shortage of masks but here are options to stay as safe as possible”.   Maybe this is the point where people started to realize they needed to think of themselves first. 
 

To his credit he seems completely unfazed by it all.  I have to say your commitment to him is unshakable.  
 

 

[oldmanfan]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Just to clarify: What I said was if Biden is going to mandate vaccines he should do it. I don’t personally agree with mandating it and I think Biden knows that he doesn’t have the power to do it…therefore he hasn’t!  We were having a discussion about MESSAGING, not about vaccines. So stop threatening everyone unless you’re going to carry out your threats. It makes for horrible and ineffective MESSAGING. Make sense?

So all you can do is criticize the guy trying to get people to protect themselves and kiss the behind of the guy who let it get out of control to begin with and lied to the American people as recorded by Woodward.  Got it.

[billsfan5121]

15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So all you can do is criticize the guy trying to get people to protect themselves and kiss the behind of the guy who let it get out of control to begin with and lied to the American people as recorded by Woodward.  Got it.

Oldmanfan - “we shouldn’t make this political.”

 

Hours later- this beauty 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, billsfan5121 said:

Oldmanfan - “we shouldn’t make this political.”

 

Hours later- this beauty 

In response to another comment.  This should never have become political.  Who did that?  The administration under which it started.

 

When you have a global health pandemic the people who should call the shots are the public health folks regardless of what political party is in office.  That was not done.  The current administration is trying to get people vaccinated, which is the proper approach based on the science which I explained to you earlier.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

27 minutes ago, billsfan5121 said:

Oldmanfan - “we shouldn’t make this political.”

 

Hours later- this beauty 

He’s a complicated guy. 🙄

Edited October 11, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[oldmanfan]

17 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

He’s a complicated guy. 🙄

Again it should not be political and should never have become political.  But it did.  Who is responsible for that?

[Beach]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Again it should not be political and should never have become political.  But it did.  Who is responsible for that?

the media

[SoCal Deek]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

So all you can do is criticize the guy trying to get people to protect themselves and kiss the behind of the guy who let it get out of control to begin with and lied to the American people as recorded by Woodward.  Got it.

Excuse me? I’m criticizing Biden for not doing the EASY things, like modify his messaging. Are we not allowed to criticize him? If so, I didn’t get the memo. And, I don’t recall even mentioning his predecessor. 

[Sundancer]

On 10/10/2021 at 6:26 AM, billsfan5121 said:

 

Also, if you’re vaccinated, why do you care so much what someone else does? Do you worry about people who may or may not have their polio vaccine? Measles? My guess is no. But why not? 

 

 

I wonder if you're smart enough to understand the differences between what is happening now and polio/measles/smallpox. 

 

My guess is no, but no worries, there were anti-vaccine folks for those vaccines as well. They look as dumb in retrospect as the covid antivax apologists will look. 

 

If this disease were killing kids at the same rate it was killing old people, the drive to get everyone vaccinated would be in feverish gear. We'd be praising science and trying to create herd immunity to protect kids. 

 

But we don't care about old and at risk folks. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Sundancer

[All_Pro_Bills]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

In response to another comment.  This should never have become political.  Who did that?  The administration under which it started.

 

When you have a global health pandemic the people who should call the shots are the public health folks regardless of what political party is in office.  That was not done.  The current administration is trying to get people vaccinated, which is the proper approach based on the science which I explained to you earlier.

The current administration is using force and coercion to get people vaccinated.  Don't get the shot, lose your job, lose your freedom, lose your rights.  That's a far cry from "trying to get people vaccinated".  Their approach is closer to to torturing a confession out of a suspect than it is to some cooperative and civil action.

 

Public health people are running the response but the problem is they are deaf and dumb to the views and insights of many of their peers that disagree with their conclusions and policies.  It would be advantageous to utilize a "peer review" to public policy but they'll have none of that.  Its our way or no way.  Unfortunately its all political.  And more and more people are waking up to it and getting more and more annoying listening to idiots like Fauci.  

 

It doesn't get any more political than threatening people with a loss of their freedoms if they don't comply.  So who's making it political?

Edited October 11, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Again it should not be political and should never have become political.  But it did.  Who is responsible for that?

In this case, you, but I understand you believe that you’re only doing it because someone else is to started it. 😳 
 

In the larger picture, every politician and major media outlet in the country made it political. Trump. Pelosi. Cruz. Harris. Biden. Worst, probably was your infallible Dr Fauci who could have been much, much stronger in his role.  
 

From my perspective, it’s really quite simple.  When the pandemic first started, there was confusion, distrust, and the government across the board—federal and state—was unprepared as is pretty much par for the course.  Plenty of blame to go around there.  
 

I gave virtually everyone in leadership a pass when it started, including both Trump and, because I’m a NYS resident, Cuomo.  Who wants to be the person in a leadership position responsible for:

 

A. An unknown virus with the potential to cause mass death;

 

B. The decision to decimate a roaring economy, cause people to lose their income, businesses to shutter and be wrong (your political enemies pounce, the average Joe thinks you screwed up, and the economy is screwed) or right (you’re still THE guy who made the decision that resulted in devastation of the economy; 

 

C. Who can you really trust?  
 

In the calm light of day, Trump pulled the trigger and shut the economy down.  For the vast majority of the career politicians and workers in state or federal system, salary and benefits remained intact.  On the really important issue of things like food, ability to pay the mortgage and the like, it was business as usual.  For a private enterprise guy, the implications were dire and he knew it.  
 

Once into the two week to stop the spread and moving forward thereafter, the dem leadership took every opportunity to politicize virtually everything.  They trash talked his approach.  They encouraged the spread of the virus by supporting and encouraging mass demonstrations in cities across the country (aided by your boy Fauci, to weak or feckles to stand up and use hiss platform to scream about the danger of mass gatherings), and of course trash talking the vax just in case Trump prevailed in  the election.  Where the heck was the togetherness you yearn for then?  

 

Bottom line here is that if folks like you are willing to support the opposition party running McCarthyesque investigations gobbling up 3 years of an administrations time, walking away with nothing on the target of the investigation after promising “TREASON!”, one should not be surprised that even death and disease will ultimately be in play in the political world.  
 

Now, though, now you seem to want us all together singing campfire songs.  I see that as unlikely. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

In this case, you, but I understand you believe that you’re only doing it because someone else is to started it. 😳 
 

In the larger picture, every politician and major media outlet in the country made it political. Trump. Pelosi. Cruz. Harris. Biden. Worst, probably was your infallible Dr Fauci who could have been much, much stronger in his role.  
 

From my perspective, it’s really quite simple.  When the pandemic first started, there was confusion, distrust, and the government across the board—federal and state—was unprepared as is pretty much par for the course.  Plenty of blame to go around there.  
 

I gave virtually everyone in leadership a pass when it started, including both Trump and, because I’m a NYS resident, Cuomo.  Who wants to be the person in a leadership position responsible for:

 

A. An unknown virus with the potential to cause mass death;

 

B. The decision to decimate a roaring economy, cause people to lose their income, businesses to shutter and be wrong (your political enemies pounce, the average Joe thinks you screwed up, and the economy is screwed) or right (you’re still THE guy who made the decision that resulted in devastation of the economy; 

 

C. Who can you really trust?  
 

In the calm light of day, Trump pulled the trigger and shut the economy down.  For the vast majority of the career politicians and workers in state or federal system, salary and benefits remained intact.  On the really important issue of things like food, ability to pay the mortgage and the like, it was business as usual.  For a private enterprise guy, the implications were dire and he knew it.  
 

Once into the two week to stop the spread and moving forward thereafter, the dem leadership took every opportunity to politicize virtually everything.  They trash talked his approach.  They encouraged the spread of the virus by supporting and encouraging mass demonstrations in cities across the country (aided by your boy Fauci, to weak or feckles to stand up and use hiss platform to scream about the danger of mass gatherings), and of course trash talking the vax just in case Trump prevailed in  the election.  Where the heck was the togetherness you yearn for then?  

 

Bottom line here is that if folks like you are willing to support the opposition party running McCarthyesque investigations gobbling up 3 years of an administrations time, walking away with nothing on the target of the investigation after promising “TREASON!”, one should not be surprised that even death and disease will ultimately be in play in the political world.  
 

Now, though, now you seem to want us all together singing campfire songs.  I see that as unlikely. 

It's pretty simple really. The Democrats went full SCORCHED EARTH to get elected...and it worked. The big question is why are they at all surprised that their strategy has consequences? 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

31 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

It's pretty simple really. The Democrats went full SCORCHED EARTH to get elected...and it worked. The big question is why are they at all surprised that their strategy has consequences? 

Right.  But I understand the dem operatives (at least on some level).  What I don’t understand is a self-described independent like Oldy sitting back and watching Rusky-gate and Kavanaugh is a serial rapist and supporting that.   I could write off the Ukrainian controversy, while impeachment was extreme and silly, sometimes you inadvertently expose your throat to the enemy.    As an independent, I’d think seeing Biden brag about shaking down the Ukes and getting nose deep in their process would point to the absurdity of impeaching Trump on whatever he supposedly did, but Trump brings out strong feelings amongst people and that colors how they view the world. 
 

On the part about the dem strategy working, I’ve said that myself a number of times.  The Trump “stop the steal” process was, at worst on his part, politics as usual these days.  Suddenly though, as if by magic, any controversy  regarding election security and voting is outrageous!  The Dems feasted on Covid, Ukraine and Russia, up to and including allegations of treason, but the so-called independents clutch at their pearls over “our process is broken and the election was stolen”.  Whatevs.  
 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

15 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Right.  But I understand the dem operatives (at least on some level).  What I don’t understand is a self-described independent like Oldy sitting back and watching Rusky-gate and Kavanaugh is a serial rapist and supporting that.   I could write off the Ukrainian controversy, while impeachment was extreme and silly, sometimes you inadvertently expose your throat to the enemy.    As an independent, I’d think seeing Biden brag about shaking down the Ukes and getting nose deep in their process would point to the absurdity of impeaching Trump on whatever he supposedly did, but Trump brings out strong feelings amongst people and that colors how they view the world. 
 

On the part about the dem strategy working, I’ve said that myself a number of times.  The Trump “stop the steal” process was, at worst on his part, politics as usual these days.  Suddenly though, as if by magic, any controversy  regarding election security and voting is outrageous!  The Dems feasted on Covid, Ukraine and Russia, up to and including allegations of treason, but the so-called independents clutch at their pearls over “our process is broken and the election was stolen”.  Whatevs.  
 

 

 

The sooner we can get Chuck, Nancy, and Mitch out of DC, the better.  All three of them are at the heart of what's gone wrong.

[B-Man]

 

 

A SCHOOL LOCKED DOWN FOR OVER AN HOUR AS POLICE ARRESTED STUDENT WHO REFUSED MASK

 

https://www.outkick.com/police-locked-down-school-to-arrest-girl-for-refusing-her-mask/

 

 

A Wyoming high school locked down for 90 minutes on Thursday. In what type of danger was the school? According to the administration, a grave danger.

 

Laramie High School got into a standoff with Grace Smith, a 16-year-old junior, because she refused to wear her mask. As a result, the school locked down, called the police, and had Smith cuffed and arrested.

 

The Laramie Police Department ticketed Smith for “trespassing.” 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

 

Two Amtrak trains canceled on Sunday due to ‘unforeseen crew issues’

 

 

 

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/10/10/two-amtrak-trains-canceled-on-sunday-due-to-unforeseen-crew-issues/