Derek Chauvin Trial

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

59 minutes ago, Beast said:

The first autopsy?

Pretty sure it did. 

22 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m curious. Were the excessive force arrests all involving black people? 

No. He pulled a gun on a middle school kid that was not. 
 

[Beast]

59 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Pretty sure it did. 
 

Not by legal culpability or intent. That’s why a hired gun had to do a second autopsy.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Beast

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Pretty sure it did. 

No. He pulled a gun on a middle school kid that was not. 
 

So if that’s true; how in the hell can this case be the predicate for ‘systemic racism’?  Answer: It can’t be! Sounds like a cop who has some anger management issues. 

[BillStime]

 

[frostbitmic]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:15 PM, SoCal Deek said:

I’m curious. Were the excessive force arrests all involving black people? 

2 Black

1 Hispanic

1 Native American

2 not reported

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:54 PM, SoCal Deek said:

So if that’s true; how in the hell can this case be the predicate for ‘systemic racism’?  Answer: It can’t be! Sounds like a cop who has some anger management issues. 

You know why. A simple diagnosis of Scumbag cop doesn’t forward the cause. 

[Tiberius]

 ER Doctor: Asphyxia  

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

 ER Doctor: Asphyxia  

 

Devi's advocate here.  This could tie very well into the defense's claim that his drug use, not the knee to the neck, caused his death.

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-asphyxiation-21972

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Devi's advocate here.  This could tie very well into the defense's claim that his drug use, not the knee to the neck, caused his death.

 

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-asphyxiation-21972

The problem with the state's case is their strategy conflicts with the findings of their own medical examiner.  The ME concluded asphyxiation was not the cause of death.  This is an unusual approach.  The defense is not claiming drug use contributed to the cause death.  They are expressing the opinion of the ME.  Typically the defense might dispute the ME's finding, but the State?  This might create a quandary for the jury to resolve and might also lead them to not convict on the most serious charges and point to a manslaughter conviction as most likely.  

[Chef Jim]

50 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The problem with the state's case is their strategy conflicts with the findings of their own medical examiner.  The ME concluded asphyxiation was not the cause of death.  This is an unusual approach.  The defense is not claiming drug use contributed to the cause death.  They are expressing the opinion of the ME.  Typically the defense might dispute the ME's finding, but the State?  This might create a quandary for the jury to resolve and might also lead them to not convict on the most serious charges and point to a manslaughter conviction as most likely.  

 

I really don't think there was intent to kill.  Why I think manslaughter really should be the conviction. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

I really don't think there was intent to kill.  Why I think manslaughter really should be the conviction. 

 

What was the intent when Floyd was found pulseless and Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck?

[Chef Jim]

43 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

What was the intent when Floyd was found pulseless and Chauvin continued to kneel on his neck?

Power controlled by a deep hatred. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Power controlled by a deep hatred. 

 

That may be what precipitated it but continuing to kneel on his neck after he's unconscious and pulseless is murder.

[Wacka]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That may be what precipitated it but continuing to kneel on his neck after he's unconscious and pulseless is murder.

How can it be murder? The ME said no signs of asphyxia and he is pulseless? Suicide by fentanyl or  OD.

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That may be what precipitated it but continuing to kneel on his neck after he's unconscious and pulseless is murder.

Voluntary Manslaughter. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Wacka said:

How can it be murder? The ME said no signs of asphyxia and he is pulseless? Suicide by fentanyl or  OD.

Because Chauvin killed  him. Floyd was alive, then Chauvin did what he did, and Floyd was dead. At this point the only questions are whether it was intended or not. 

[Gene Frenkle]

On 4/3/2021 at 9:54 PM, SoCal Deek said:

So if that’s true; how in the hell can this case be the predicate for ‘systemic racism’?  Answer: It can’t be! Sounds like a cop who has some anger management issues. 

 

On 4/4/2021 at 10:50 PM, frostbitmic said:

2 Black

1 Hispanic

1 Native American

2 not reported

 

Kinda blows that theory, huh? Good try though.

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Because Chauvin killed  him. Floyd was alive, then Chauvin did what he did, and Floyd was dead. At this point the only questions are whether it was intended or not. 

 

9 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Voluntary Manslaughter. 

As Chef suggests I expect a guilty verdict the manslaughter charge.  Whether its voluntary or involuntary remains to be seen.  Not so sure about conviction on the other charges.   29 cites cause and effect. 

 

For me the prevailing piece of evidence is the "choke hold" and subsequent death.  While the defense can argue the hold is legal and included in the training officers receive the key factor is not the hold itself but the duration of the hold.  The video clearly supports this position.  I expect the prosecution will show that by any reasonable measure the 9 minute duration of the hold was excessive and much longer than necessary to subdue a suspect and also much longer than the referenced training would allow.  And by maintaining the hold for 9 minutes the officer failed to "protect" a suspect taken into his custody.

[Orlando Tim]

25 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

As Chef suggests I expect a guilty verdict the manslaughter charge.  Whether its voluntary or involuntary remains to be seen.  Not so sure about conviction on the other charges.   29 cites cause and effect. 

 

For me the prevailing piece of evidence is the "choke hold" and subsequent death.  While the defense can argue the hold is legal and included in the training officers receive the key factor is not the hold itself but the duration of the hold.  The video clearly supports this position.  I expect the prosecution will show that by any reasonable measure the 9 minute duration of the hold was excessive and much longer than necessary to subdue a suspect and also much longer than the referenced training would allow.  And by maintaining the hold for 9 minutes the officer failed to "protect" a suspect taken into his custody.

 once Floyd had the cuffs on him and he is lying on his stomach he is no longer a threat. If you maintain the choke hold more than a few seconds past that point then Chauvin starts to become responsible. I find it interesting that most here from what I see agree it is manslaughter with just basic knowledge of law, because the video takes out a lot of questions.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

46 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

As Chef suggests I expect a guilty verdict the manslaughter charge.  Whether its voluntary or involuntary remains to be seen.  Not so sure about conviction on the other charges.   29 cites cause and effect. 

 

For me the prevailing piece of evidence is the "choke hold" and subsequent death.  While the defense can argue the hold is legal and included in the training officers receive the key factor is not the hold itself but the duration of the hold.  The video clearly supports this position.  I expect the prosecution will show that by any reasonable measure the 9 minute duration of the hold was excessive and much longer than necessary to subdue a suspect and also much longer than the referenced training would allow.  And by maintaining the hold for 9 minutes the officer failed to "protect" a suspect taken into his custody.

I think he’s going down on the most severe charge filed. This case is about as high profile as you can get and the downside to guilty on a lesser charge is incalculable.  The downside of a member of the jury not being influenced by the potential ramifications of their vote is huge.  There are no offsets—Chauvin controlled the scene, he controlled the victim, he showed a disregard for Floyd’s humanity—and if it’s a technical spread between the harshest punishment and the next level down, very few people are going to spend much time shedding tears for the guy. 
 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

 

As Chef suggests I expect a guilty verdict the manslaughter charge.  Whether its voluntary or involuntary remains to be seen.  Not so sure about conviction on the other charges.   29 cites cause and effect. 

 

For me the prevailing piece of evidence is the "choke hold" and subsequent death.  While the defense can argue the hold is legal and included in the training officers receive the key factor is not the hold itself but the duration of the hold.  The video clearly supports this position.  I expect the prosecution will show that by any reasonable measure the 9 minute duration of the hold was excessive and much longer than necessary to subdue a suspect and also much longer than the referenced training would allow.  And by maintaining the hold for 9 minutes the officer failed to "protect" a suspect taken into his custody.

In my opinion and that of others that it’s not the duration of the hold but the fact that it is designed to subdue a suspect.  Floyd was definitely subdued but Chauvin was down there “giving him the business” (hey I may no longer follow the Bills but I still know their history real well) way beyond what was necessary. 

[Unforgiven]

UH OH...

 

Minneapolis Police Chief Arradondo agrees that Derek Chauvin‘s knee appears to be on George Floyd’s shoulder blade in the close-up bodycam footage.

 

People in liberal cities might start considering heading to home depot and hurricane proofing your properties.

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

UH OH...

 

Minneapolis Police Chief Arradondo agrees that Derek Chauvin‘s knee appears to be on George Floyd’s shoulder blade in the close-up bodycam footage.

 

People in liberal cities might start considering heading to home depot and hurricane proofing your properties.

 

Oh boy.  This is not good.  

[njbuff]

21 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

UH OH...

 

Minneapolis Police Chief Arradondo agrees that Derek Chauvin‘s knee appears to be on George Floyd’s shoulder blade in the close-up bodycam footage.

 

People in liberal cities might start considering heading to home depot and hurricane proofing your properties.

 

Nice knowing you Minneapolis. It was a nice 150 year run.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

AP had an interesting take on this..
 

https://apnews.com/article/dca11e4f78f8f30d18db7a14e8b17d39

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Unforgiven said:

UH OH...

 

Minneapolis Police Chief Arradondo agrees that Derek Chauvin‘s knee appears to be on George Floyd’s shoulder blade in the close-up bodycam footage.

 

People in liberal cities might start considering heading to home depot and hurricane proofing your properties.

 

He still should have gotten off of him when he was found to be pulseless.  And while he may not have been kneeling on his neck, you can still severely restrict a person's ability to breathe by kneeling on them and preventing their lungs from properly expanding. 

[Chef Jim]

34 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He still should have gotten off of him when he was found to be pulseless.  And while he may not have been kneeling on his neck, you can still severely restrict a person's ability to breathe by kneeling on them and preventing their lungs from properly expanding. 

Absolutely. He still had a hand (or knee 🙄) in Floyd’s death. This just made the jury’s job that much harder. 

[ALF]

Expert testimony today left knee of Chauvin on Floyd's neck , right knee on his back , after seeing all angles of videos. 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

This is kind of a disaster for prosecutors , many of their own witnesses have helped the defense

 

 

[Motorin']

19 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

AP had an interesting take on this..
 

https://apnews.com/article/dca11e4f78f8f30d18db7a14e8b17d39

 

 

"Chauvin had been certified to perform CPR, and Minneapolis Officer Nicole Mackenzie, who trains members of the force in medical care, testified Tuesday that department policy required him to start aid before paramedics arrived, if possible.

 

Officers kept restraining Floyd — with Chauvin kneeling on his neck, another kneeling on Floyd’s back and a third holding his feet — until the ambulance got there, even after he became unresponsive, according to testimony and video footage.

 

The officers also rebuffed offers of help from an off-duty Minneapolis firefighter who wanted to administer aid or tell officers how to do it."

 

The failure to administer, and denial of CPR after the loss of conciseness is Voluntary Manslaughter at the minimum. 

 

 

[Tiberius]

Quote

Testimony in the trial of Derek Chauvin resumed Wednesday with the former officer’s defense team arguing that George Floyd saying, “I can’t breathe,” while police attempted to load him into the squad car was a form of resisting arrest.

Wow

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/07/derek-chauvin-trial/

 

They are just hoping theres one stupid racist in the jury i guess. 

5 hours ago, ALF said:

Expert testimony today left knee of Chauvin on Floyd's neck , right knee on his back , after seeing all angles of videos. 

I thought that was just a stupid argument to make, they showed both videos, and the first one looked aweful, lifeless Floyd, vomit on the sidewalk, but the lawyer coolly asked if the second video looked different. 

 

I was thinking the prosecution cloudless not have done better. 

[T&C]

From the AP on today's trial events for anyone else who missed it:

 

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2021/04/07/expert--derek-chauvin-never-took-knee-off-george-floyd-s-neck

[B-Man]

LIVE: Chauvin Trial Day 9 – State’s Evidence Begins to Align with the Defense Narrative of Innocence

 

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/04/live-chauvin-trial-day-9-states-evidence-begins-to-align-with-the-defense-narrative-of-innocence/

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, B-Man said:

LIVE: Chauvin Trial Day 9 – State’s Evidence Begins to Align with the Defense Narrative of Innocence

 

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/04/live-chauvin-trial-day-9-states-evidence-begins-to-align-with-the-defense-narrative-of-innocence/

Sure it does, George Floyd was dying of a drug overdose, and Chauvin was just providing medical assistance until the paramedics arrived.

[Motorin']

On 4/6/2021 at 8:02 AM, Chef Jim said:

In my opinion and that of others that it’s not the duration of the hold but the fact that it is designed to subdue a suspect.  Floyd was definitely subdued but Chauvin was down there “giving him the business” (hey I may no longer follow the Bills but I still know their history real well) way beyond what was necessary. 

 

Chauvin continued to knee on his neck for almost 3 minutes after his fellow officer could not find a pulse. 

 

Given that revelation, murder 1 is in play for the premeditated choice not to remove pressure from his neck and administer CPR.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Motorin'

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

Chauvin continued to knee on his neck for almost 3 minutes after his fellow officer could not find a pulse. 

 

Given that revelation, murder 1 is in play for the premeditated choice not to remove pressure from his neck and administer CPR.

 

It wasn't premeditated in that it was planned from the start.  I still say murder 2.

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Chauvin continued to knee on his neck for almost 3 minutes after his fellow officer could not find a pulse. 

 

Given that revelation, murder 1 is in play for the premeditated choice not to remove pressure from his neck and administer CPR.

 

Someone needs to look up the word premeditated.  Crime of passion in my book.  Manslaughter with Murder 3 the highest.  

[Motorin']

Just now, Doc said:

 

It wasn't premeditated in that it was planned from the start.  I still say murder 2.

 

I heard Newt Gingrich of all people explain that premeditation does not have to be done days or even hours before hand. But the premeditated aspect could be conducted in the process, if there's enough time to recognize that the action will lead to death, and a choice is then made to continue with the action. 

 

So when Chauvin learns that Floyd has no pulse, his choice to continue kneeling on the neck is made knowing that it could very well end in his death. 

 

You could also make the case for Murder 2 or 3. And the difference really comes down to Chauvin's state of mind. 

 

His actions could very well be indicative of Murder 3, that he was mentally depraved... He allegedly threatened the off duty fire fighter who offered to provide CPR. I need to hear what he actually said and how he said it to see if he sounded out of his mind. 

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Someone needs to look up the word premeditated.  Crime of passion in my book.  Manslaughter with Murder 3 the highest.  

See above 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

I heard Newt Gingrich of all people explain that premeditation does not have to be done days or even hours before hand. But the premeditated aspect could be conducted in the process, if there's enough time to recognize that the action will lead to death, and a choice is then made to continue with the action. 

 

So when Chauvin learns that Floyd has no pulse, his choice to continue kneeling on the neck is made knowing that it could very well end in his death. 

 

You could also make the case for Murder 2 or 3. And the difference really comes down to Chauvin's state of mind.

 

It will be very hard to prove murder 1.