Stafford to Rams!!

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m not sure it was just to do them a favor. He took the contract but he actually wanted Goff as part of the package. He was Director of College Scouting for the Rams and reportedly a driving force on drafting Goff. He may also see value in 2 picks over 2022-23 over one this year. based on where the lions are in their rebuild, and where the scouting challenges are this year in general let alone starting from scratch with new systems etc. 
 

 

 

 

And maybe the Rams perform worse in 2021, making the 1st rounder in 2022 better.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, mannc said:

To me, the numbers look pretty similar.  I just take issue with the knee-jerk assumption that LA just got a massive upgrade at the position.

 

Oh, to me too.  I see them both as incomplete QB but with somewhat different gaps in their game.

 

I thought it was interesting that Stafford is below average in what many regard as the "money" regions for a QB - those  0-10 yd throws to the center and R not to mention the behind the LOS checkdowns to the R.  Lots of "Devil in the details" of course.

 

Also thought it was interesting that Goff was below average to the deep R and C.  If it's a throwing problem, well, Allen did show that for the motivated QB, these can be addressed, but maybe it's a WR or a scheme problem.

[YoloinOhio]

Just now, Doc said:

 

And maybe the Rams perform worse in 2021, making the 1st rounder in 2022 better.

Those are the things you really can’t control. Who knows what the Rams record will be. They project to be good but a key injury here or there and they are the Lions.  I think it was wise to look at those 2022-23 picks as very valuable to their rebuild. Even could package and trade up for a QB if they decide Goff isn’t the future. I really like what the Lions are doing. Not sold on the HC but not going to judge a HC on intro presser.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I guess it depends upon what you think about the upcoming drafts.  
 

Maybe they view multiple picks going forward as better than the #8 pick this year, especially if they truly think they are 2 or 3 years away and need to revamp the entire roster.

 

This years draft with the lack of college games played and no combine and limited visits makes it much more difficult.  Maybe the Lions think the next couple of years will allow better scouting and player development than this off season.

 

Just a few thoughts on that. 
 

Now if Carolina offered the #8 and a number 1 next year and maybe Bridgewater - then maybe I think the Lions just did the Rams a favor, but the fact that the picks are next year and the year after does not bother me because I would have a longer term view in Detroit.

 

 

Goff is a MUCH better player than Bridgewater, who is backup-level. A decent backup, but a backup nonetheless.

[Doc]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Those are the things you really can’t control. Who knows what the Rams record will be. They project to be good but a key injury here or there and they are the Lions.  I think it was wise to look at those 2022-23 picks as very valuable to their rebuild. Even could package and trade up for a QB if they decide Goff isn’t the future. I really like what the Lions are doing. Not sold on the HC but not going to judge a HC on intro presser.

 

I don't see Stafford moving the needle much for the Rams, meaning at best the 1st rounder in 2022 is the same as this coming season.  But if the Rams falter, it's a better pick.

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, DCOrange said:

An interesting wrinkle to this that nobody seems to be talking about: Detroit’s GM turned down a better offer from Carolina (a top 10 pick) to do his old team a favor (he was just hired away from the Rams a few weeks ago).

 

Maybe he ultimately just wanted to do Stafford a solid and was okay with the Rams package but it’s clearly worse than the #8 overall pick in this years draft. This was not a case of Detroit getting the best value they could for their asset and it just so happened to benefit the GM’s old bosses. 

The Panthers couldn’t offer a pretty good qb as part of the deal. The Rams could. The Lions do actually need a decent qb for the 2021 season.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Yeah he was.  They were so desperate for an upgrade they started a backup over him in the playoffs using the thumb injury as an excuse.

 

Truly awful take.  Goff broke and dislocated the thumb on his throwing hand in the Week 16 game.   He had surgery and missed Week 17.

 

It was really a stretch to think he'd play in the playoffs - a Warrior mentality thing.  Legit questions how effective any QB could be with a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

 

Obviously the Rams thought they needed an upgrade but starting their backup had nothing to do with that and everything to do with the broken thumb/surgery

 

 

[Bing Bong]

is Goff really chopped liver to everyone in trade value? Haven't seen him play much this year.

[Rochesterfan]

15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Goff is a MUCH better player than Bridgewater, who is backup-level. A decent backup, but a backup nonetheless.

 

No kidding, but most people seem to think LA had to throw an extra 1st and a 3rd to include Goff.

 

The poster I was responding to basically said the Panthers was a better offer with just the number 8 this year rather than 2 #1s and Goff.  I don’t think that is necessarily the case.  Especially as you need time to build and regrow the team.

 

[teef]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Truly awful take.  Goff broke and dislocated the thumb on his throwing hand in the Week 16 game.   He had surgery and missed Week 17.

 

It was really a stretch to think he'd play in the playoffs - a Warrior mentality thing.  Legit questions how effective any QB could be with a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

 

Obviously the Rams thought they needed an upgrade but starting their backup had nothing to do with that and everything to do with the broken thumb/surgery

 

 

this came up on nfl radio.  brady quinn mentioned that typically if the starter was hurt enough to not start, why even dress him?  if the starter can play in any capacity, he should...especially in a playoff game.  

[Doc]

1 minute ago, teef said:

this came up on nfl radio.  brady quinn mentioned that typically if the starter was hurt enough to not start, why even dress him?  if the starter can play in any capacity, he should...especially in a playoff game.  

 

The difference here is that Goff had surgery just 2 weeks before the game.

[Jauronimo]

24 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Goff is a MUCH better player than Bridgewater, who is backup-level. A decent backup, but a backup nonetheless.

I think Goff is going to look like Foles without McVay and all the talent he had around him in LA.

[C.Biscuit97]

I think the hate has gone way too far on Goff. I don’t think he’s great but they won a lot of games and went to a SB. I think Stafford is better but do I think they are that much better with him than Goff? Not really. 
 

it’s weird to say it but Detroit made an awesome trade for a player who didn’t want to be there. They test drive Goff for a season and set up their future really well. 

[teef]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

The difference here is that Goff had surgery just 2 weeks before the game.

then why dress?  i get that it's for an emergency situation, but apparently he was boarder line to dress.  if it was the same situation with the bills, do you think they'd let barkley play?  i'd assume they'd still go with josh, even with a broken thumb, unless they absolutely couldn't.

[C.Biscuit97]

20 minutes ago, FormerlyPT5P said:

is Goff really chopped liver to everyone in trade value? Haven't seen him play much this year.

I think the thought is McVay basically tells Goff what to do and he just does half reads. He is limited in his physical tools. But the guy was a number 1 overall pick and has a better resume than a lot of guys at similar stages of their career. Also, he gets to play in a dome for at least 9 games. 

[Bing Bong]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think the hate has gone way too far on Goff. I don’t think he’s great but they won a lot of games and went to a SB. I think Stafford is better but do I think they are that much better with him than Goff? Not really. 
 

it’s weird to say it but Detroit made an awesome trade for a player who didn’t want to be there. They test drive Goff for a season and set up their future really well. 

I say win-win trade. I think the Lions clearly win, getting Goff and 1st rounders, dumping off their aging franchise quarterback and getting a whole slew of assets to build with. And Goff certainly isn't that much worse than Matty.

 

The Rams just because their MO has always seemed win now, sloughing off high picks, going for it all in FA. I still think Matty Stafford can win on a good team. Multiple veterans around the league rave about how he can sling the football.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by FormerlyPT5P

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think the hate has gone way too far on Goff. I don’t think he’s great but they won a lot of games and went to a SB. I think Stafford is better but do I think they are that much better with him than Goff? Not really. 
 

it’s weird to say it but Detroit made an awesome trade for a player who didn’t want to be there. They test drive Goff for a season and set up their future really well. 

 

Given their history, they'll likely waste the draft picks.  As well as Goff.

 

8 minutes ago, teef said:

then why dress?  i get that it's for an emergency situation, but apparently he was boarder line to dress.  if it was the same situation with the bills, do you think they'd let barkley play?  i'd assume they'd still go with josh, even with a broken thumb, unless they absolutely couldn't.

 

Because the next QB is even worse than an injured Goff.

[teef]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Because the next QB is even worse than an injured Goff.

then why not play an injured goff?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, teef said:

then why not play an injured goff?

 

Because they liked what they saw of a healthy what's-his-name.

[teef]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Because they liked what they saw of a healthy what's-his-name.

agreed, and i couldn't even think of the guy's name either.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, teef said:

agreed, and i couldn't even think of the guy's name either.

 

It came to me after I posted.  Wolford.  Will's nephew.

[teef]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

It came to me after I posted.  Wolford.  Will's nephew.

no kidding!  that's a nice tidbit, (i never use the word tidbit, but it seemed fitting here).

[ndirish1978]

Hopefully this sets market expectations for Watson at 3 1st round picks and a QB at a minimum. 

[C.Biscuit97]

39 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Given their history, they'll likely waste the draft picks.  As well as Goff.

 

 

Because the next QB is even worse than an injured Goff.

I mean true but in a world where the Bills and Browns won playoff games, anything is possible. As a Bills fan, I feel bad for the Lions.  What a depressing team. 

[mannc]

17 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Hopefully this sets market expectations for Watson at 3 1st round picks and a QB at a minimum. 

I think that’s always been the minimum.  I think this means Watson commands 4 firsts, and there are only 2 teams that can pay that.

[TheFunPolice]

Stafford ending up with with McVay is about the best thing that could have happened for him. Happy for the guy after so many years of misery in Detroit.

 

Rams are going to be dangerous. Not having the 1st round picks is tough, but that team is stacked right now and will just need to hit on their 2nd rounders.

 

 

[Big Turk]

Had no idea, but Stafford's wife is Bills WR coach Chad Hall's sister...she is smoking hot. I am sure Chad had his hands full growing up trying to protect his sister from every dude in town from trying to get at her.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

An interesting wrinkle to this that nobody seems to be talking about: Detroit’s GM turned down a better offer from Carolina (a top 10 pick) to do his old team a favor (he was just hired away from the Rams a few weeks ago).

 

Maybe he ultimately just wanted to do Stafford a solid and was okay with the Rams package but it’s clearly worse than the #8 overall pick in this years draft. This was not a case of Detroit getting the best value they could for their asset and it just so happened to benefit the GM’s old bosses. 

 

Maybe Detroit's GM felt acquiring the 2016 #1 overall pick who has shown himself able to play QB in the NFL made up the difference in picks.

 

Detroit does need a QB, preferably one who is able to play in the NFL, and given what's been forecast there's no guarantee that a QB they want will be there in this year's draft or able to function in the NFL immediately

 

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

I think Goff is going to look like Foles without McVay and all the talent he had around him in LA.

 

That is a possibility, especially with Lynn as his OC.  Lynn is a bit of a "dark horse" to me.

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

The Panthers couldn’t offer a pretty good qb as part of the deal. The Rams could. The Lions do actually need a decent qb for the 2021 season.

I disagree, but I understand most NFL front offices won't view it that way.

[Doc Brown]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Truly awful take.  Goff broke and dislocated the thumb on his throwing hand in the Week 16 game.   He had surgery and missed Week 17.

 

It was really a stretch to think he'd play in the playoffs - a Warrior mentality thing.  Legit questions how effective any QB could be with a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

 

Obviously the Rams thought they needed an upgrade but starting their backup had nothing to do with that and everything to do with the broken thumb/surgery

It just points to how much they soured on Goff.  Why was he good enough to be the backup then in that game if his thumb significantly limited his ability to throw the ball?  Something tells me Allen, Mahomes, Rogers, Brady, etc... had the same injury they would've started.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It just points to how much they soured on Goff.  Why was he good enough to be the backup then in that game if his thumb significantly limited his ability to throw the ball?  Something tells me Allen, Mahomes, Rogers, Brady, etc... had the same injury they would've started.

 

🙄

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

🙄

We'll never know if McVay used the thumb injury as an excuse just to start Wolford. Just the fact that Goff played decent in relief along with a report that Goff was unhappy that McVay didn't start him in the WC game makes it plausible. 

[major]

Detroit won this trade. Goff has talent and Stafford is overrated (in my opinion). The draft haul alone is something the lions needed to begin their rebuild 

[Bing Bong]

10 hours ago, major said:

Detroit won this trade. Goff has talent and Stafford is overrated (in my opinion). The draft haul alone is something the lions needed to begin their rebuild 

I agree.

 

But the more I see it this is pretty much an NBA type salary dump for the Rams. No way is Goff that much less valuable than Stafford, but when comparing contracts between the 2, Goff becomes more a liability than an asset.. and the Lions want more compensation to move him to their team. 

 

It's something I imagine the Eagles are considering with Wentz, and he obviously comes as an even worse liability.

 

Falcons and Eagles would compensate teams just to allow them to offload Wentz and Matt Ryan.

 

Goff just has a bit more value than those two.

[teef]

17 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

We'll never know if McVay used the thumb injury as an excuse just to start Wolford. Just the fact that Goff played decent in relief along with a report that Goff was unhappy that McVay didn't start him in the WC game makes it plausible. 

i don't know why some see this as shocking.  it all certainly makes a bit more sense now.

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, FormerlyPT5P said:

I agree.

 

But the more I see it this is pretty much an NBA type salary dump for the Rams. No way is Goff that much less valuable than Stafford, but when comparing contracts between the 2, Goff becomes more a liability than an asset.. and the Lions want more compensation to move him to their team. 

 

It's something I imagine the Eagles are considering with Wentz, and he obviously comes as an even worse liability.

 

Falcons and Eagles would compensate teams just to allow them to offload Wentz and Matt Ryan.

 

Goff just has a bit more value than those two.

 

I don't see anyone trading for Wentz.  As for Ryan, I don't know why the Falcons would move on without a replacement.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, FormerlyPT5P said:

is Goff really chopped liver to everyone in trade value? Haven't seen him play much this year.

 

He seems to be for some people here, but IMHO he shouldn't be.

 

Goff looked bad his rookie season under an OC who managed to make 3 QB look awful (Foles, Keenum, Goff).  Notably within 2 years, one of those QB won a Superbowl, one of them played in a Superbowl, and one played in an NFC Championship and lost to the Superbowl champs.  Now I'm not saying these guys are great (one can argue that Foles and Keenum are very much system QB), but they're able to play far more competently than it appeared.

 

So McVay came in and Goff looked good his 2nd year and unstoppable his 3rd year.  And McVay is getting huge credit for his "turnaround".  But as we've just seen, a QB can look poor as a rookie, show flashes his 2nd season, and look great his 3rd in the normal course of development in a good offensive system and as weapons are added.   So is it McVay, or is it Goff?  The "Goff Chopped Liver" camp says it's Goff.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

 

Since the Superbowl, the Rams defense has been on the rise (20 to 17 to 1) while their offense has tailed from 2 to 11 to 22.  Part of that is the run game, from 3 to 26 to 10.  McVay's offense has plateaued

 

There are two possibilities:

1) Goff hasn't developed further as McVay needs and his limitations are limiting the offense.  He's not the QB who can take them back to the Championship

2) McVay's offense has been partially "solved" and needs substantial re-design to return the team to the top level

 

McVay is a certified offensive genius(tm) so he's not going to vote for 2).  Must be 1).

 

We'll see.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, teef said:

then why not play an injured goff?

 

As we saw with Beasley and Davis, it's not so clear cut.

 

Obviously Goff is going to want to play if he can grip the football and throw it at all.  Look at Beasley, insisting he can play (and in fact playing well, albeit no way 100%) on a broken fibula.  I'm sure the same convo took place with Davis.  These guys are imbued with "Warrior Mentality" and it hurts them not to play and they're going to get pissed off at the coach if he sits them, even if the next guy plays well (they could have played better, in their minds)

 

McVay and his staff probably saw it as Wolford > Injured Goff >>> Bortles.  Goff probably saw it as Injured Goff >> Anyone else on the team and was pissed, but in a normal state of affairs, he'd be over it.

 

It's not some palace intrigue, it's kind of the way it is when coaches have to balance Uber competitor Alpha males with the effects of injury

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

As we saw with Beasley and Davis, it's not so clear cut.

 

Obviously Goff is going to want to play if he can grip the football and throw it at all.  Look at Beasley, insisting he can play (and in fact playing well, albeit no way 100%) on a broken fibula.  I'm sure the same convo took place with Davis.  These guys are imbued with "Warrior Mentality" and it hurts them not to play and they're going to get pissed off at the coach if he sits them and the next guy gets hurt.

 

McVay and his staff probably saw it as Wolford > Injured Goff >>> Bortles.  Goff probably saw it as Injured Goff >> Anyone else on the team and was pissed, but in a normal state of affairs, he'd be over it.

 

It's not some palace intrigue, it's kind of the way it is when coaches have to balance Uber competitor Alpha males with the effects of injury

 

 

 

Agreed - it was even talked about in the Rams/SeaHawks game several times.  During the week Goff was having trouble gripping the ball to make throws.  His accuracy and ability to throw beyond 5-10 yards was greatly hindered.  Therefore - the decision to start Wolford because even with his lack of experience he could handle more throws than Goff.

 

Goff though knew significantly more of the playbook than Bortles and therefore even injured provided more as a potential back-up that could help Wolford out.  The idea being that Goff never has to see the field, but can help identify what the SeaHawks were doing and help Wolford get into better plays.

 

Then early Wolford gets knocked out and you see why the Rams struggled with the decision - Goff that game was all over the place and really could not throw a pass with any velocity and/or accuracy.

 

I do not think the starting of Wolford was a sign of their dislike of Goff - that was evident throughout the year at various times and comments by McVay.  I think Goff generally had issues during the week and was not ready to go, but was still better than the third string and the staff mad a choice - similar to the Bills dressing Davis, Brown, and Beasley or the Jets dressing Becton.  There is a lot that goes into those choices and with limited options - sometimes you make a choice like dressing Goff hoping and expecting him not to play.

[CommonCents]

McVay’s offense has not looked great outside of the year that Todd Gurley went off. If anyone watched the Rams that season Gurley played some of the best RB you will ever see. He was an absolute monster.

 

McVay is under pressure and he seems to think Goff is holding him back. It will be fun watching it all play out. I like Woods and Cupp so I’m fine if Stafford plays well, I’d also be fine if McVay runs out of excuses and the heat gets turned on him. 

 

I still have my doubts about him as a coach after the SB and his failure to adjust.