Young people aren't sports fans and that's a huge problem

[PromoTheRobot]

Tim Ellis, the NFL’s chief marketing officer, says the league’s own data bears that out. “There’s no strategy for bringing in a 35-year-old fan for the first time. You have to make them a fan by the time they’re 18, or you’ll lose them forever,” he said.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/11/24/gen-z-sports-fans/?tid=ss_tw

[Gugny]

My son is 17 and watches zero sports on TV.  In normal years, we normally attend one Mets game and one Bills game/year.  He thoroughly enjoys both.

 

I was an avid baseball fan by the time I was 12. 

 

I was a late bloomer with the NFL.  I was a casual NFL fan in high school.  I didn't attend my first Bills game until I was in my mid-20s and that's also around the time I became a much bigger, engaged football fan.

[Seasons1992]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Tim Ellis, the NFL’s chief marketing officer, says the league’s own data bears that out. “There’s no strategy for bringing in a 35-year-old fan for the first time. You have to make them a fan by the time they’re 18, or you’ll lose them forever,” he said.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/11/24/gen-z-sports-fans/?tid=ss_tw

 

Well duh.........this is why I've brainwashed my younger son at age 9-11 to be a Bills fan. 

 

A rolled-up newspaper on Sundays to hit him with, also helps.......

[PromoTheRobot]

13 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

Well duh.........this is why I've brainwashed my younger son at age 9-11 to be a Bills fan. 

 

A rolled-up newspaper on Sundays to hit him with, also helps.......

 

Maybe an occasional kick to the 'nads to get him used to the feeling of disappointment?

[Seasons1992]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Maybe an occasional kick to the 'nads to get him used to the feeling of disappointment?

 

I'm not a violent person........how dare you! 😄

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

40 minutes ago, Gugny said:

My son is 17 and watches zero sports on TV.  In normal years, we normally attend one Mets game and one Bills game/year.  He thoroughly enjoys both.

 

I was an avid baseball fan by the time I was 12. 

 

I was a late bloomer with the NFL.  I was a casual NFL fan in high school.  I didn't attend my first Bills game until I was in my mid-20s and that's also around the time I became a much bigger, engaged football fan.

I think baseball is especially going to suffer. the idea of any Gen Zer liking baseball is comical. The game is now so utterly boring, slow, and consolidated in the same 3-4 teams. My friend’s teenage boys and my teenage nephews all Play baseball, and Hate watching it. 

[Nextmanup]

Flipping this around for a moment, for years now I have realized I follow the Bills and even more so the Sabres out of raw, sheer, force of habit.

 

I.E., had I not been hooked as a kid, I wouldn't be following either now.

 

My childhood brain was brainwashed to get excited over a Bills and Sabres game, and that's why I still watch, out of habit.

 

The Sabres have been more or less unwatchable for almost a decade now, and I almost never miss a game.

 

I literally think "Why am I watching this?" and it's just because that's what I do on a random Tuesday night in the winter...watch the Sabres, if they are on.

 

My 2 nephews, both born and bred in Buffalo, do not really follow any Buffalo sports at all.

They are HUGE English Premiership soccer fans, however, and both play soccer.

 

Times are changing I guess.

 

 

[nedboy7]

This might be the worst news of 2020!!  I mean will this madness ever end? 

 

According to ESPN’s internal data, some 96 percent of 12- to 17-year-olds still identify as sports fans, a consistent figure over the past decade. But the share of fans who call themselves “avid” has been dropping, from 42 percent a decade ago to 34 percent last year.

 

Isn't this actually good?  Kids can be a little more well rounded rather than "avid" fans. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by nedboy7

[BillsPride12]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Flipping this around for a moment, for years now I have realized I follow the Bills and even more so the Sabres out of raw, sheer, force of habit.

 

I.E., had I not been hooked as a kid, I wouldn't be following either now.

 

My childhood brain was brainwashed to get excited over a Bills and Sabres game, and that's why I still watch, out of habit.

 

The Sabres have been more or less unwatchable for almost a decade now, and I almost never miss a game.

 

I literally think "Why am I watching this?" and it's just because that's what I do on a random Tuesday night in the winter...watch the Sabres, if they are on.

 

My 2 nephews, both born and bred in Buffalo, do not really follow any Buffalo sports at all.

They are HUGE English Premiership soccer fans, however, and both play soccer.

 

Times are changing I guess.

 

 

I've had pretty similar discussions with myself when it comes to the Sabres over the last 10 years.  Sports were just so cool and exciting when a lot of us were growing up and it is absolutely just ingrained in us at this point.  I don't think Sports are nearly as entertaining as they once were and that cool mystique about Sports seems to be lost.  I can totally see why they don't make the same impression on the youths of today although I find it very sad.  

[Nextmanup]

25 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think baseball is especially going to suffer. the idea of any Gen Zer liking baseball is comical. The game is now so utterly boring, slow, and consolidated in the same 3-4 teams. My friend’s teenage boys and my teenage nephews all Play baseball, and Hate watching it. 

Well you hit on an ancillary point, which I find interesting...

But as a rule, I have found that those who enjoy playing sports do not watch them at all.

 

Conversely, those who enjoy watching them largely do so because they were not good at athletics themselves and appreciate the athleticism of those who play sports well.  

 

There are exceptions to both groups, of course.

 

I always get a kick out of remembering that Dave Stieb, ex-outstanding Toronto Blue Jays pitcher, said that, when he was drafted by Toronto, he genuinely did not know Toronto had a team in major league baseball!  LOL.  

 

There are a ton of pro athletes like that; they're great at playing, and do so for various reasons (probably mostly because receiving millions for doing what you naturally, easily, do well is not a bad gig), but they aren't really what you'd call "fans of the game."

 

Of course, there are some pro athletes who are HUGE students of the game, interested in the sport's history, etc.

Mike Tyson comes immediately to mind; dude is an encyclopedia of boxing historic knowledge, loves it, and was one of the greatest boxers of all time.

 

I still think athletes like that are in the minority, however. 

 

 

[Process]

For kids now a days it's all about social media, video games, watching online streamers etc. Less playing sports and interest in sports in general.

 

Not surprised by this at all. 

[Nextmanup]

3 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

I've had pretty similar discussions with myself when it comes to the Sabres over the last 10 years.  Sports were just so cool and exciting when a lot of us were growing up and it is absolutely just ingrained in us at this point.  I don't think Sports are nearly as entertaining as they once were and that cool mystique about Sports seems to be lost.  I can totally see why they don't make the same impression on the youths of today although I find it very sad.  

Especially with hockey, I think what we are experiencing is a function of the game changing as much as ourselves!

 

The game of NHL hockey is now enormously different to what it was in the '70s, '80s, and '90s, when I was hooked on the game.

 

Back then, teams did not like each other or pal around before/after games.  The sport was filled with physical intimidation, and physical conflict. Real violence. Not every game broke out into a war, but it happened many times per season, and the actual playing hockey part often took second place to the war on the ice.  

 

For me, the intimidation/physicality of the game back then was hugely compelling!  It was real life narrative tension on display for all to see.  Crowds universally stood and cheered the loudest when stuff went crazy on the ice.

 

The game itself was also hugely different; much more room/speed on display on the ice.  Individual talent was easier to see/appreciate.  It was more like a blitzkrieg.  Today's game is WWI trench warfare.  1980s Smythe Division hockey was absolutely fantastic in every way!  Today's game is nothing similar.  

 

And all the intimidation/physicality aspect of the game is almost entirely gone now.

 

What you are left with is simply not a very compelling sports entertainment product to be consumed, which explains why the league is never in a particularly strong financial position.  

Back when ESPN gave up on NHL hockey, they pointed out that PBA bowling shows got better ratings than NHL hockey games.

 

And the sport is a lot worse now then it was when ESPN quit on it.  

 

But we, as fans, have also changed, I'm sure.  Sports (hell, everything) is a lot better when you're a kid!  At least for me.  The world seemed like a bigger, more interesting, mysterious place in many ways back then.

 

I just don't bring to sports viewing the things I did when I was a teenager, or even in my 20s.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Process said:

For kids now a days it's all about social media, video games, watching online streamers etc. Less playing sports and interest in sports in general.

 

Not surprised by this at all. 

I don't know that is true; tons of kids play sports today just as they always did.

 

Do they enjoy watching on TV?  I don't know; that's different I think.

 

I live in SE Florida and I can tell you that my gated community neighborhood is FILLED with giant PACKS of young kids screwing around out in the street and on everyone's lawns all day long, every day!  Riding bikes, skateboards, playing sports in the street...

 

It reminds me in a very satisfying way of my own childhood doing the exact same stuff in the Town of Tonawanda in the 1970s.

 

I always think "they are supposed to be inside playing video games!  What happened?"

They are outside all day long.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

My son is 17 and watches zero sports on TV.  In normal years, we normally attend one Mets game and one Bills game/year.  He thoroughly enjoys both.

 

I was an avid baseball fan by the time I was 12. 

 

I was a late bloomer with the NFL.  I was a casual NFL fan in high school.  I didn't attend my first Bills game until I was in my mid-20s and that's also around the time I became a much bigger, engaged football fan.

I'm a huge Red Sox/AL fan, and I had expensive Nats tickets when I lived in DC for several years, once the team became a thing.

 

And yet my impression is that your average sports fan (not average person, but sports fan) can't stand baseball! 

 

The game is too slow and boring, they say.  World Series games get worse TV ratings than some crappy Thursday night NFL matchup.

 

For decades, baseball was the ONLY sport in this country that mattered.  Those days are long gone.

 

The economic structure of the sport needs re-thinking.  

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I'm a huge Red Sox/AL fan, and I had expensive Nats tickets when I lived in DC for several years, once the team became a thing.

 

And yet my impression is that your average sports fan (not average person, but sports fan) can't stand baseball! 

 

The game is too slow and boring, they say.  World Series games get worse TV ratings than some crappy Thursday night NFL matchup.

 

For decades, baseball was the ONLY sport in this country that mattered.  Those days are long gone.

 

The economic structure of the sport needs re-thinking.  

 

I love watching baseball.  I love listening to games on the radio, too.

 

People who find it boring don't understand the game.  I get it.  I think hockey is the most boring sport in the world - but I know that I feel that way because I don't understand the game.

 

It's a shame that they're changing the game to try to lure new fans.  It's a fantastic sport and I really hate to see any drastic changes being made.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

Well duh.........this is why I've brainwashed my younger son at age 9-11 to be a Bills fan. 

 

A rolled-up newspaper on Sundays to hit him with, also helps.......

 

I worked on my boys at an early age. I sealed the deal by taking them both to WNY for a home game when they turned 16. They became even more radio fans than I am!  

 

One of my grandson’s first sentences was “Let’s Go Buffalo!”   

 

 

 

.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Augie

[boater]

I became a Bills fan at 18. Just in time according to demographers.

 

It was back in the day of when if 80,000 seats didn't sell out by Thursday, the game wasn't on TV. So a good portion of my football knowledge came from listening to Van Miller.

 

Back to OP.. declining fans is a problem. NFL teams spend money like a drunken sailor, supported by an addiction to the TV contract. When fans decline the teams need other revenue. Right now there isn't much discussion of expansion but there will be in the future.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I think baseball is especially going to suffer. the idea of any Gen Zer liking baseball is comical. The game is now so utterly boring, slow, and consolidated in the same 3-4 teams. My friend’s teenage boys and my teenage nephews all Play baseball, and Hate watching it. 

 

Do they play exclusively in leagues for schools and/or traveling teams? When I was growing up we’d all just get together and play, then maybe pick your favorite sport to join a league. I was in a football league, but just played hockey on the pond and pickup hoops. A league was too much commitment (especially in hockey with the lack of ice time at reasonable hours!!!). 

 

Kids today seem to play only on organized teams and pickup sports have withered away. (By the time our kids turned 10 they had played more games with a uniform and a ref than I did in my entire life, and I played into college.)  You lose those marginal kids a bit as a result, I suspect. Nobody plays “just a little” and gets hooked. Pick up games are replaced by video games and social media, it seems.  

 

As for baseball, our youngest did rec league and travel league. They called recruiting for All Stars after one season and I asked if he was interested. He responded “do I have to? Half the kids are standing around, and the other half are sitting.” He liked having more action (and exercise) in soccer, football and basketball.

 

Weight lifting is the absolute worst! All stinking day for six lifts. I only went to the state finals (he finished an impressive 5th in Florida) and I saw less than 2 minutes of “action” the entire day. Six lifts does not take long and makes baseball look thrilling! 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Interesting.  As my job entails being able to quickly build rapport with students who I am evaluating, I have found to 70-80% of the time sports are my “inroad” with male students.  I guess less so with female students.

 

I have found that kids today seem to be HUGE into NBA basketball which I’m not really a fan of, so I have to study up from time to time.

[TBBills]

Is it really a problem though?

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just blood sticking parasites.  Can't even get one Buffalo Championship and I am so done with sports.  😆 Maybe that's why they keep us hanging on! 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Do they play exclusively in leagues for schools and/or traveling teams? When I was growing up we’d all just get together and play, then maybe pick your favorite sport to join a league. I was in a football league, but just played hockey on the pond and pickup hoops. A league was too much commitment (especially in hockey with the lack of ice time at reasonable hours!!!). 

 

Kids today seem to play only on organized teams and pickup sports have withered away. (By the time our kids turned 10 they had played more games with a uniform and a ref than I did in my entire life, and I played into college.)  You lose those marginal kids a bit as a result, I suspect. Nobody plays “just a little” and gets hooked. Pick up games are replaced by video games and social media, it seems.  

 

As for baseball, our youngest did rec league and travel league. They called recruiting for All Stars after one season and I asked if he was interested. He responded “do I have to? Half the kids are standing around, and the other half are sitting.” He liked having more action (and exercise) in soccer, football and basketball.

 

Weight lifting is the absolute worst! All stinking day for six lifts. I only went to the state finals (he finished an impressive 5th in Florida) and I saw less than 2 minutes of “action” the entire day. Six lifts does not take long and makes baseball look thrilling! 

i think they mostly play only organized sports (baseball, basketball, soccer, football). If they play any pickup, it would be a little Bball.

 

I get what you are saying. When I was a kid, we had this “back yard baseball” league in our neighborhood. Played with tennis balls and a bunch of other rules— but it was awesome. We had three different “stadiums” (yards), each with its own challenges. One was like Fenway— short with a super high wall (ie, deck), and then a really long narrow yard, etc.  We’d keep stats and everything. 
 

I was terrible at regular little League and didn’t play it a lot (few years)— but that back yard baseball league got me passionate about the sport! 

[OZBILLS]

58 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I have found that kids today seem to be HUGE into NBA basketball

 

Is it the sport? Or the players they're really into? 

The subculture of Basketball has changed, and is really getting ingrained here even in Australia. The Social Media aspect and shooting 3/no D.

 

Internationally, we have lots of people who become late 20's professionals who then travel to the US and really soak up the sport here. It is inversed.

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

5 minutes ago, OZBILLS said:

 

Is it the sport? Or the players they're really into? 

The subculture of Basketball has changed, and is really getting ingrained here even in Australia. The Social Media aspect and shooting 3/no D.

 

Internationally, we have lots of people who become late 20's professionals who then travel to the US and really soak up the sport here. It is inversed.

 

 

I honestly think it’s the players.  Specifically guys like Lebron, Steph Curry, and Kevin Durant.  Also the way it’s marketed.  I feel like the kids like to wear their sneakers and their clothing.

[OZBILLS]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

I feel like the kids like to wear their sneakers and their clothing.

 

Yeah, the marketing is amazing. 

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

9 minutes ago, OZBILLS said:

 

Yeah, the marketing is amazing. 

 

 

Kinda like what Jordan did for the NBA.  I watched with my dad during the Isaiah Thomas, Bird, Magic years, but never really enjoyed NBA basketball until Jordan.

 

Edit: I find the NBA to be unwatchable now.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Johnny Hammersticks

[Buffalo716]

I think it's probably where you live

 

Little league baseball and baseball in general is huge in my area of Western New York. D1 players, even kids getting drafted

 

Still a good amount of pick up basketball games. 

 

But I think you either love it or hate it. Not much of a middle ground

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Kinda like what Jordan did for the NBA.  I watched with my dad during the Isaiah Thomas, Bird, Magic years, but never really enjoyed NBA basketball until Jordan.

 

Edit: I find the NBA to be unwatchable now.

i was the same as you until Maybe 3-4 years ago. Then I sort of embraced the NBA. 
 

I understand now why the kids like it— you have these really big and awesome skill guys that are impossible to stop. The games are fluid and fast and Fun to watch. 
 

the “problem,” of course, is you have a bunch of 12-year olds that specialize in step back 3’s, flailing out their legs. 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i was the same as you until Maybe 3-4 years ago. Then I sort of embraced the NBA. 
 

I understand now why the kids like it— you have these really big and awesome skill guys that are impossible to stop. The games are fluid and fast and Fun to watch. 
 

the “problem,” of course, is you have a bunch of 12-year olds that specialize in step back 3’s, flailing out their legs. 

 

😂 Can you imagine kids today watching NBA basketball from the 80’s?   Good defense, mid-range jumpers, and sweet baby hook shots and layups?

[SinceThe70s]

16 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i think they mostly play only organized sports (baseball, basketball, soccer, football). If they play any pickup, it would be a little Bball.

 

I get what you are saying. When I was a kid, we had this “back yard baseball” league in our neighborhood. Played with tennis balls and a bunch of other rules— but it was awesome. We had three different “stadiums” (yards), each with its own challenges. One was like Fenway— short with a super high wall (ie, deck), and then a really long narrow yard, etc.  We’d keep stats and everything. 
 

I was terrible at regular little League and didn’t play it a lot (few years)— but that back yard baseball league got me passionate about the sport! 

 

That sounds great. For me it was wiffle ball with two friends on the block. Most summer days included figuring out which of our parents would put up with the wiffle ball hitting the garage door and which would let us use the pool that day. We didn't keep stats but you had to use a reasonable lineup. So if you were Pittsburgh,  Willie Stargell was your first baseman and you had to hit left-handed. Good times.

 

I'm fortunate to have two teenage boys who are both sports fans. One is more athletic than the other but he isn't making a varsity team. It doesn't get much better than watching a football, baseball or hockey game with them either live or on tv. Better times.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

32 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

😂 Can you imagine kids today watching NBA basketball from the 80’s?   Good defense, mid-range jumpers, and sweet baby hook shots and layups?

thankfully, the 80s still reign supreme in my old man pickup games. I just feast from 15 feet all day! 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Kinda like what Jordan did for the NBA.  I watched with my dad during the Isaiah Thomas, Bird, Magic years, but never really enjoyed NBA basketball until Jordan.

 

Edit: I find the NBA to be unwatchable now.

 

Funny, I don't watch the NBA at all but I love college ball.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Funny, I don't watch the NBA at all but I love college ball.

 

Same here.  NCAA basketball is probably second to the NFL in my sports world.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Same here.  NCAA basketball is probably second to the NFL in my sports world.

 

UB was supposed to play Vermont this weekend at Mohegan Sun Bubbleville, but they backed out over Covid. In fact half the Bubbleville schools dropped out. Instead of UVM and Iona, the Bulls will play Towson and Army.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I used to be a huge baseball fan, but can't stand to watch the modern game. Still play fantasy but that's just the numbers, you don't need to watch. I love football and watching the NHL. Could care less about the NBA and the NCAA is starting to fade for me.

[Orlando Tim]

My two cents: my son is 15 and there are several big differences from when I was kid: 1) kids today like continuous action and no commercials- my kids watch nothing with commercials.

2) they like on demand- they watch what they want when they want- no scheduling life around it.

3) players are open about what terrible people they are, no one is Micheal Jordan saying all people buy shoes.

4) games start too late on east coast for kids to watch. I rarely watch end of games that start at 830, my kids certainly can't.

[DrW]

My daughter was a soccer fan as long as she herself played in middle school and high school. She even bought a "Gotze" jersey (he was the guy who scored the winning goal for Germany at the 2014 World Cup).

My son is an avid Buffalo Bills fan, although we left Rochester for Texas when he was just four. As he is now at UT Austin, he contemplated to attend the Bills-Texans playoff game last year, but could not afford it. He and his girlfriend are dedicated Texas (UT Austin) fans; she played and he is still playing in the Longhorn band (tenor saxophone and tuba, resp.)

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I used to be a huge baseball fan, but can't stand to watch the modern game. Still play fantasy but that's just the numbers, you don't need to watch. I love football and watching the NHL. Could care less about the NBA and the NCAA is starting to fade for me.

i don’t know how you can not watch baseball

and still play fantasy. I remember when I stopped watching baseball and then decided to play fantasy baseball after a few-year hiatus. It was like a generation of players passed me by. Had no idea who anyone was— there are so many teams, players, and changes from a fantasy value perspective in baseball! 

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

I honestly think it’s the players.  Specifically guys like Lebron, Steph Curry, and Kevin Durant.  Also the way it’s marketed.  I feel like the kids like to wear their sneakers and their clothing.

 

Back when our boys were seriously into AAU hoops we would bribe them when we traveled. “Be good today and we’ll take you to see Lebron play the Celtics tonight.” It generally worked. 

 

One Tuesday night in Charlotte we had about $800 into 6 seats (one going unused) before we ever get to the concession stand. An expensive night. 

 

We get our stuff, we sit down and after 5 minutes my ferocious and gritty little AAU PG son says “they aren’t even trying.” I knew that in advance, and I’ve never paid another penny for the NBA since. Too many games, too little effort. I MUCH prefer college hoops, with the urgency that brings. 

 

I don’t watch the NBA until the Finals, if then. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

40 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i don’t know how you can not watch baseball

and still play fantasy. I remember when I stopped watching baseball and then decided to play fantasy baseball after a few-year hiatus. It was like a generation of players passed me by. Had no idea who anyone was— there are so many teams, players, and changes from a fantasy value perspective in baseball! 

I watch an inning here and there, but I just follow the stats and know the players that way. Won both my leagues this year, removes some of the bias I guess.

[Another Fan]

17 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

I've had pretty similar discussions with myself when it comes to the Sabres over the last 10 years.  Sports were just so cool and exciting when a lot of us were growing up and it is absolutely just ingrained in us at this point.  I don't think Sports are nearly as entertaining as they once were and that cool mystique about Sports seems to be lost.  I can totally see why they don't make the same impression on the youths of today although I find it very sad.  

Yeah agree.  Up until high school sports were like my sole encompassing interest.  To the point I really didn’t own that many if any CDs as a kid or VHS tapes.   I guess a wing nut would be today’s term?  Lol

 

But gradually it got to the point where I’m in my 30s now and it feels like I just hang on to the interest because it was ingrained in me.

 

I might add some of that is growing up and understanding the business of it?  I know my dad used to tell me he’d watch all 162 Mets game as a kid no matter how bad they were.  But I mean even when I was younger he’d have no interest in watching the games a lot of the time