Morse not starting was a "football decision" per McD

[GoBills808]

Cover1 recently did an entire thread breaking down Morse here-

 

 

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

 

Push where??  In the running game?  Our running game has been beyond bad with Feliciano at center.  Morse is also significantly better at swinging in the run game than Feliciano.  We really miss Spain in that aspect too.

 

Go back and watch Singletary from last year.  Morse and Spain constantly leading him down field.

 

Feliciano gets more push in the run game yes. The way they used Morse and Spain was pulling then and using Morse's athleticism. Our run game hasn't been great the last two games but the two games Feliciano took over last year and the one he took over the this year when Morse went out are among our best rushing days of the past couple of seasons.

[thenorthremembers]

From the video of practice they were showing on OBL today it appears Morse was the starting center.   It went Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford?/Williams.

 

Probably shouldnt have had the video on the air given the new media rules.

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Not blinking for a couple weeks..........yikes........sounds like he's toast.

[Doc]

44 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

From the video of practice they were showing on OBL today it appears Morse was the starting center.   It went Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford?/Williams.

 

Probably shouldnt have had the video on the air given the new media rules.

 

Link?

 

And I figured that Feliciano would be at RG and Ford at LG, but that works.

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

From the video of practice they were showing on OBL today it appears Morse was the starting center.   It went Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford?/Williams.

 

Probably shouldnt have had the video on the air given the new media rules.

 

Would be fantastic to see that!!

 

Morse discussed at the 8 minute mark, here: https://www.buffalobills.com/video/sean-mcdermott-thankful-to-be-with-a-great-organization

 

Not much more than the quote Thad tweeted.

Edited November 25, 2020 by NickelCity

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

From the video of practice they were showing on OBL today it appears Morse was the starting center.   It went Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford?/Williams.

 

Probably shouldnt have had the video on the air given the new media rules.

I expect that's what it will be on Sunday, finally have our best 5 out there.

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Not blinking for a couple weeks..........yikes........sounds like he's toast.

Sure does sound that way.  

 

I never saw him as a physical stud.  Not a road grader for sure, and not the most powerful pass protector at center.   He is an excellent thinking center, and he had the speed and agility to get downfield.   

 

This sounds like the Bills have concluded they need more than that.  

 

Almost like the plan is to give Allen and Feliciano the rest of this year to get ready for the playoffs and next year, and in the off-season look for more help in the interior. 

[BADOLBILZ]

24 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Sure does sound that way.  

 

I never saw him as a physical stud.  Not a road grader for sure, and not the most powerful pass protector at center.   He is an excellent thinking center, and he had the speed and agility to get downfield.   

 

This sounds like the Bills have concluded they need more than that.  

 

Almost like the plan is to give Allen and Feliciano the rest of this year to get ready for the playoffs and next year, and in the off-season look for more help in the interior. 

 

 

When Morse came out of Missouri he was a pretty good right tackle prospect.........if he's not a center here I think he's done in Buffalo because of the contract.........but if he moves on he might try a position change because you just can't protect your head with one arm between your legs at the snap.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Cover1 recently did an entire thread breaking down Morse here-

 

 

 

My take-home from this twitter thread that's been missing this year, is the coordination between C and guard positions.

 

41 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I expect that's what it will be on Sunday, finally have our best 5 out there.

 

Except if Ford is still limited, is he part of the best 5?

 

38 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Almost like the plan is to give Allen and Feliciano the rest of this year to get ready for the playoffs and next year, and in the off-season look for more help in the interior. 

 

I would actually be slightly surprised not to see Morse starting at C this week.

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks.  You state it well.  

 

And I agree about the conspiracy theories, the smokescreens, and all that.  Every week, they're just trying to figure out how to win this week's football game, that's all.  They have dozens of decisions every week - who plays, who's inactive, who comes of the practice squad.  They think about it, talk about it, make a decision and move on.  They can't spend hours contemplating every decision.  In this case they probably simply decided that things had been going pretty well in the interior line and the bye week was the right time to do any repositioning.  That's a football decision.

Could some of the angst be ?

 The rotation of Offensive linemen is not traditional NFL football. Find your five and that's it . Done . excepting injury
McDaboll haave spoken about it early on when Brian arrived.

multiple and week to week match ups.

 But no one figured it would the O line.
Bills have been messing with heavy packages using analytic methods for match ups all along and now ( no T camp really and no preseason ) they are still looking at the line.
 

I find it somewhat interesting how much McD has modeled Bill Beelzebub rotating players

 
 

[Punching Bag]

I have decided I like the short term IRs and NFL should allow more of them in future years.

They will need to find a way to ensure though that players do not get stuck on PS if they do not want.

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Feliciano gets more push in the run game yes. The way they used Morse and Spain was pulling then and using Morse's athleticism. Our run game hasn't been great the last two games but the two games Feliciano took over last year and the one he took over the this year when Morse went out are among our best rushing days of the past couple of seasons.

Could it be simply safe play calling that made those nice runs effective ?
 

Morse is certainly more advanced at protections. Smart cookie . And i call that weighs  heavy when evaluating the Center's game day.
 

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

I have decided I like the short term IRs and NFL should allow more of them in future years.

They will need to find a way to ensure though that players do not get stuck on PS if they do not want.

its a game changer and i like the concept.
like to see a roster increase as well. Game day and PS.. A bit more chess to watch out for perhaps? But good for the players and the game maybe 
 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

When Morse came out of Missouri he was a pretty good right tackle prospect.........if he's not a center here I think he's done in Buffalo because of the contract.........but if he moves on he might try a position change because you just can't protect your head with one arm between your legs at the snap.

That's really interesting.  Hadn't ever thought about it, but I'd guess that tackles actually are less likely to get hit in ways that would cause concussions.  

 

He's gotta really want to play to take a big pay cut and move to tackle.  His family could tell him to hang em up.  

 

Interesting thought.  

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

This is a weird situation and I'm guessing we'll hear more later down the line. Until then I'm reserving judgement; I'm not sure what to make of it and clearly I don't possess all the facts from inside.

[fansince88]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:28 PM, thebandit27 said:

Wait, this is the quote that inspired this thread?

 

Yeah, absolutely crystal clear that they are being cautious.

yup!

[Royale with Cheese]

It is so strange McDermott won't put this to rest. 

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

It is so strange McDermott won't put this to rest. 

 

He will: Sunday.  In the meantime, why help the Chargers?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

He will: Sunday.  In the meantime, why help the Chargers?

 

I don't think the gameplan changes much with a different center, especially when Feliciano is good there. 

 

 

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I don't think the gameplan changes much with a different center, especially when Feliciano is good there. 

 

 

 

Different players with different strengths and tendencies.  Again no reason to tell the Chargers who is starting.

[Royale with Cheese]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Different players with different strengths and tendencies.  Again no reason to tell the Chargers who is starting.

 

If a reporter asked McDermott if Dawkins is starting....do you think he would say "we'll see Sunday"?

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If a reporter asked McDermott if Dawkins is starting....do you think he would say "we'll see Sunday"?

 

No because that's obvious.

[dave mcbride]

On 11/23/2020 at 7:06 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Last year, Josh Allen had 109 rushes for 510 rushing yards.  Without Allen's yards, the Bills had 1544 rush yards on the season which would nominally slot them into 24th for rush yards (actually ~21st after correcting for other good rushing QB).  So fundamentally without Allen, the Bills rush game wasn't "all that and a bag of chips" last year.

 

This year he's had less rushing - although I'm surprised.  My perception is that he's been running a lot less, but he's still on pace for about 450 yds and is averaging 28 ypg which is only a bit less than the 32 ypg he averaged last season, especially given he had a games (LV) where he basically didn't rush at all and another (Tenn) where he rushed less than normal.

 

Huh.  I guess chalk this up to perception and reality, where perception differs from reality.

 

So now I don't know what to think, except that all the OL injuries have held us back.

 

 

I do agree with this.

Re Allen’s rushing yds/game, factor in that he’s credited with playing 16 games last year but only “played” in 15, really. He was in for 7 plays vs. the Jets in the meaningless finale and there was never a chance that the Bills were going to let him run it. Every play was a handoff or a very short pass attempt. He also missed a quarter vs. NE. Basically, he averaged 34.6 rushing yards per game last season (over 14.75 games), which is 24 percent higher than this season. He also gained 57 yards in game one vs. the Jets, and has averaged 24.7 ypg since. Recency bias might also be shaping your view that he is running less (and he has run a lot less since thst first game), but it’s also the case that he’s gaining fewer rushing yards per game by a not-insignificant percentage!

 

Another stat to consider: Allen has 13 kneel downs through 10 games this season, and last year through 10 games had only 6 kneel downs. He only had 11 kneel downs total last season. Anyway, that has an artificial upwards effect on rushes per game and an artificial downwards effect on both ypc and rushing ypg. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Re Allen’s rushing yds/game, factor in that he’s credited with playing 16 games last year but only “played” in 15, really. He was in for 7 plays vs. the Jets in the meaningless finale and there was never a chance that the Bills were going to let him run it. Every play was a handoff or a very short pass attempt. He also missed a quarter vs. NE. Basically, he averaged 34.6 rushing yards per game last season (over 14.75 games), which is 24 percent higher than this season. He also gained 57 yards in game one vs. the Jets, and has averaged 24.7 ypg since. Recency bias might also be shaping your view that he is running less (and he has run a lot less since thst first game), but it’s also the case that he’s gaining fewer rushing yards per game by a not-insignificant percentage!

 

Another stat to consider: Allen has 13 kneel downs through 10 games this season, and last year through 10 games had only 6 kneel downs. He only had 11 kneel downs total last season. Anyway, that has an artificial upwards effect on rushes per game and an artificial downwards effect on both ypc and rushing ypg. 

 

 

They are also gaining nearly 50 more yards of offense per game so the overall impact of his rushing on this years offense is even less than the raw numbers.

 

It's a good sign.

 

 Imagine if they actually had some kind of TE play (as I watch Logan Thomas having a nice game).

[Richard Noggin]

On 11/25/2020 at 9:01 PM, Tuel Time said:

This is a weird situation and I'm guessing we'll hear more later down the line. Until then I'm reserving judgement; I'm not sure what to make of it and clearly I don't possess all the facts from inside.

 

What kind of a weirdo waits until he is well-informed before making controversial proclamations with 100% certainty?

[JGMcD2]

On 11/16/2020 at 5:17 PM, JGMcD2 said:

I was typing this before your last response LOL. 

 

I highly, HIGHLY encourage you to actually watch the press conference with McDermott. 
 

There were 3 questions posed when it came to Morse and McDermott spent about 15 seconds total answering those questions. They were asked at the beginning, middle and end of the interview. 
 

I’m paraphrasing but here’s how it went 

 

First question was that he was active but didn’t
play, was he not healthy? This is around the 1:20 mark. 

McDermott responses by saying he was healthy, but it was a coach’s decision to not have him play this week, Mitch is a great player but they felt that they had momentum with the group from last week and wanted to see how they played together this week. Said they played well when Mitch went down and wanted to take a look at it one more week. 

 

Second question was someone clarifying the Morse question from earlier... they specifically asked if Morse was benched... this is around the 8:30 mark 

 

McDermott said he was NOT BENCHED. 
 

Quick follow up asked if Morse was still the starter. 
 

McDermott said the lineup is determined week to week... literally something McDermott says about every position group because he likes the idea of competition and maybe even the illusion of it. 
 

Final question around the 13:30 mark. Reporter asks if it was a disciplinary decision for something he did/did not do off-field or strictly a football decision. 
 

McDermott replied in 6 words and used the verbiage from the reporter.. “It was strictly a football decision.”

 

I think this is being read into... I mean really he spent like 30 seconds answering these 3 questions and they’re such vague answers and really aren’t answers outside of McDermott answers and we’re creating a controversy here. 

EDIT:

 

Look at all 3 comments.... he said the following 

 

A) Mitch is a good player 

B) We wanted to take one more week to look at this combination 

C) He was not benched 

D) We determine the lineup week to week

E) This relates to comment B about looking at the combination from last week... it wasn’t disciplinary it was a football decision

https://twitter.com/JaySkurski/status/1332335779574640645

 

Media must be glad they created a story for Bills fans to freak out about during bye week! 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

14 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

What kind of a weirdo waits until he is well-informed before making controversial proclamations with 100% certainty?

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

https://twitter.com/JaySkurski/status/1332335779574640645

 

Media must be glad they created a story for Bills fans to freak out about during bye week! 

 

TBH, some of our fans seem able to freak out all on their own without media assistance.

 

But the media does deserve a shout-out for this. 

 

My opinion, which seems discreditable to some, is that McDermott and Daboll are both fairly straight shooters.  They aren't forthcoming, and they have different but equally effective strategies for handling questions they really don't want to answer ....but if they say something, they generally say what they mean and mean what they say.

 

So if they say something was a "football decision" involving "continuity" and "wanting to get another look" at a particular combination of OLmen...IMHO, they said what they meant, and meant what they said, and turning it into "not really healed from concussion" and "doesn't like him any more as a football player" and "he's toast" "he'll be cut" blah blah is Bizarro World. 

 

Now, if the line that played vs AZ had lit it up in the run game, coulda been a different ending.  Possibly if Ford were available, though IMHO he's been "walking wounded" in multiple body parts all season long.  But our backs managed 35 yds between them on 11 carries, and it wasn't.

[Manther]

On 11/24/2020 at 1:40 PM, ScottLaw said:

It's not even close... I just don't trust they'll put Winters on the bench. They love him for some reason. 

Ugh, I think you are right.  And, I don’t like him in the game.  He’s know Vlad Ducasse (nobody is that bad) but, not really any better.  IMO he is a below average Guard only.  And, can’t play guard.