Jump to content

Morse not starting was a "football decision" per McD


Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

They were averaging almost 31 PPG with Morse and a healthy Josh.  Again Feliciano didn't prove to be a better center and he's a far better RG than Winters.  The decision will be easy...

 

The momentum prior to changing the C was 3 games in the teens.  It was instantly and profoundly reversed with the reconfigured line.  Throw in the NE where Morse was knocked out and they scored 24.  Boom.   

 

The line was better (if you count scoring points) that it had been since week 4.    How can you argue otherwise....and still invoke "momentum"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The momentum prior to changing the C was 3 games in the teens.  It was instantly and profoundly reversed with the reconfigured line.  Throw in the NE where Morse was knocked out and they scored 24.  Boom.   

 

The line was better (if you count scoring points) that it had been since week 4.    How can you argue otherwise....and still invoke "momentum"?

 

Yeah, like I said, Josh was injured for most of those 4 games.  Again when they were both healthy, they averaged almost 31.

 

But as I said, we'll see come 1 PM Sunday.  I'll bet it's Morse starting at C and Feliciano at OG.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, like I said, Josh was injured for most of those 4 games.  Again when they were both healthy, they averaged almost 31.

 

But as I said, we'll see come 1 PM Sunday.  I'll bet it's Morse starting at C and Feliciano at OG.

 

They averaged over 33 without Morse.  Josh had 296 yards against the Jets.  No TDs.

 

With a healthy Josh, McD chose not to go with Morse when he was available.  He liked what he saw against Sea and AZ.  Josh was 33/87 (72%) for 700 yards and 5 TD (2 int).  How does that not make a coach take notice?   That IS momentum...

 

We will see Sunday, yes.

Edited by Mr. WEO
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

And you added the suggestion that he was benched for poor play.  Except he was coming off a concussion, the 2nd in a year and a half, and he missed a day of practice.  If he hadn't been coming off a concussion and Feliciano started over him at C, it would be an entirely different discussion.

 

I guess we'll find out Sunday.

No I did not.  I said the O-line as a unit performed better with him out, according to McD.  It's not the same thing.  Him and Feliciano each bring something different to the table.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

They averaged over 33 without Morse.  Josh had 296 yards against the Jets.  No TDs.

 

With a healthy Josh, McD chose not to go with Morse when he was available.  He liked what he saw against Sea and AZ.  Josh was 33/87 (72%) for 700 yards and 5 TD (2 int).  How does that not make a coach take notice?   That IS momentum...

 

We will see Sunday, yes.

 

They averaged 28 PPG in 3 games with Feliciano at C.  The first drive in the Cheaters game went for a TD and it had Morse and then Bates at C.  And again Josh was still injured in the Jets game.

 

And Morse missed almost 3 full games and a practice before he was cleared.  It was the right move to stick with Feliciano for the Cardinals game.  Now that Morse can practice every day for the Chargers game, there is no reason not to have him start at C and put Feliciano and his talents to use next to him. 

 

31 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

No I did not.  I said the O-line as a unit performed better with him out, according to McD.  It's not the same thing.  Him and Feliciano each bring something different to the table.

 

McD didn't say that.  See above.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They averaged 28 PPG in 3 games with Feliciano at C.  The first drive in the Cheaters game went for a TD and it had Morse and then Bates at C.  And again Josh was still injured in the Jets game.

 

And Morse missed almost 3 full games and a practice before he was cleared.  It was the right move to stick with Feliciano for the Cardinals game.  Now that Morse can practice every day for the Chargers game, there is no reason not to have him start at C and put Feliciano and his talents to use next to him. 

 

 

McD didn't say that.  See above.


He missed 1 full game.  He was cleared 10 days after he entered protocol.  After that, McD chose to go with the combo that scored 44 points in the one game he missed.  It then scored 30 more. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

He missed 1 full game.  He was cleared 10 days after he entered protocol.  After that, McD chose to go with the combo that scored 44 points in the one game he missed.  It then scored 30 more. 

 

He missed almost 2 full games and a practice prior to the Arizona game.  Again it was the right decision to stick with Feliciano for the Arizona game given all the time he missed, coming off a concussion, and with the bye week coming up.

 

And to correct what I said above, they averaged 30 PPG without Morse at C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They averaged 28 PPG in 3 games with Feliciano at C.  The first drive in the Cheaters game went for a TD and it had Morse and then Bates at C.  And again Josh was still injured in the Jets game.

 

And Morse missed almost 3 full games and a practice before he was cleared.  It was the right move to stick with Feliciano for the Cardinals game.  Now that Morse can practice every day for the Chargers game, there is no reason not to have him start at C and put Feliciano and his talents to use next to him. 

 

 

McD didn't say that.  See above.

This is what McD said:. "we felt like we had at least some momentum with the group we had had in when Mitch went down and wanted to take a look at one more week there."

 

Why is this not clear to you?  After Morse went down the unit started playing better, gaining momentum.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

This is what McD said:. "we felt like we had at least some momentum with the group we had had in when Mitch went down and wanted to take a look at one more week there."

 

Why is this not clear to you?  After Morse went down the unit started playing better, gaining momentum.

 

Yeah, when a guy misses almost 2 full games and a practice prior to a game, you don't want to break it up.  Especially when said player is coming off a serious injury and there is a bye week coming up. 

 

32 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

The best 5 is Dawkins, Ford, Morse, Feliciano, and Williams. It’s not even close. Morse is a fine pass blocker. I don’t care about the run. They finally have an elite QB. Put the best 5 to protect Allen. Morse is not a top 10 center even though Beane paid him top money. But he is the best center on the team.

 

This.  Morse and Feliciano playing together will only make the OL better.

Edited by Doc
  • Like (+1) 2
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, letsgoteam said:

All IMHO:

 

If Morse does not start the next game (or more), it may not be a "doghouse" thing, it could very well be that Morse is retiring/contemplating retiring at the end of the year. Sticking it out with the team and not wanting to leave them in a bad situation if some other injuries pop up. Only playing in an emergency situation. 

 

Again just speculation.

 

I'm kind of thinking the same thing too, he wants to walk away, but also doesn't want to completely let the team down.  So they've agreed to not play him unless extremely needed.  It's kind of unprecedented or maybe much more of this does go on all the time, but you just don't hear about it at all.  Maybe Morse wants to play but also confided that his wife or parents are begging him to walk away now.  Could even be that some of the other lineman are telling him to sit out.

 

Obviously pure speculation and shame on us for creating a conspiracy theory here,  but when McD tries to convince people the line is better with Morse not playing, something is not making any sense.

 

 

Morse may come out and play every snap Sunday, then we can delete these posts and come up with the next conspiracy theory that it was a ploy by McD to leave the Chargers guessing.  But if he doesn't play,there is much more to this story than we're being told.

 

8 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

My interpretation of McDermott's explanation is that the O-line is doing better without Morse in there and he wants to stick with that group as developing continuity is critical to O-line effectiveness.  I'm not expecting Morse back in unless the tape of the Cardinals game looks bad.

 

Yes that's exactly what McD stated, but how do you know he's even close to telling you the truth?  He's going to take the heat for not playing him, rather than let the player take it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, when a guy misses almost 2 full games and a practice prior to a game, you don't want to break it up.  Especially when said player is coming off a serious injury and there is a bye week coming up. 

 

 

This.  Morse and Feliciano playing together will only make the OL better.

If the play of the offensive line fell off when Morse went out, or if Mongo and Allen had trouble with their snaps, Morse would have started against the Cards.  But McD felt momentum improved with Morse out and he stuck with it.  We'll see what happens Sunday,  Morse has had the bye week to work back in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Yes that's exactly what McD stated, but how do you know he's even close to telling you the truth?  He's going to take the heat for not playing him, rather than let the player take it.

I don't, but I don't understand why you think he might be completely lying about it?  He did answer to it in general terms which covers for Morse. I think if the injury history would have played into it, he could say coach's decision just to be sure he's over concussion  and IMO would have been less controversial while still covering for Morse.

 

But it is my opinion that IF Morse is our clear #1 center, you get him up to speed for the Cards and hope the momentum carries through.  I mean, coaches' attitude could have been "things just turned around for this O-line, wait till we plug Mitch back in and get Mongo back to guard vs the Cards!" but it wasn't.  Something seems up.

 

We'll see Sunday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah and IMO Feliciano is also a much better center than he is a guard.    

 

Additionally........with improving the run game a priority.......you have to wonder if Morse is going to be more tentative at the point of attack.  It's not like the play he got hurt on was an unexpected hit.........it's standard operating procedure for the Patriots LB's to try to blow up run plays that way if they anticipate a combo block coming.  

 

It isn't out of the question that Feliciano/Winters might be better than Morse/Feliciano.........and that's knowing that Winters is just not good.

 

Definitely agree Feliciano is a better center than guard (and the best center on the roster). Think that has been pretty obvious from day 1. As for the best combo I think it depends what the question is. If the question is purely focused on run game then I agree it is not out of the question. I think once you are looking at the big picture the chances become pretty remote. Especially because the Bills have acknowledged they are a pass first team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, TBBills said:

Not my argument it exactly what was said... You don't like it take it up with McDermott.

 

Likely Coach McD is deferring to OC or OL coach.

It may not be best center but best center for offensive game plan and if he starts it is not he listened to fan advice.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Bronxbomber21 said:

I don't care how they look at it Morse at Center and Mongo at G will always be better then Ike or Winters being on the field. It's that simple Morse is a way better center then those to at G

 

 

And I believe they do not care if you care.  Probably would give you a Bronx cheer if you told them that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, TBBills said:

Lol talking about saying rest isn't for concussions. Don't act like that

 

14 hours ago, TBBills said:

Yes you were wrong about concussions we all know that.

 

crap.  I wish I had seen this last night.

 

@TBBills

 

You do know that WEO is a Medical Doctor, right?  IIRC maybe even a surgeon? 

 

If anyone on the board offers medical advice.  You trust WEO over the other pretend doctors 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Definitely agree Feliciano is a better center than guard (and the best center on the roster). Think that has been pretty obvious from day 1. As for the best combo I think it depends what the question is. If the question is purely focused on run game then I agree it is not out of the question. I think once you are looking at the big picture the chances become pretty remote. Especially because the Bills have acknowledged they are a pass first team. 

 

If it wasn't for Josh Allen being really tall, Feliciano would have multiple snaps over the QBs head a game.  The guy is not a good center at all.  He had this issue last year too when he had to fill in.

 

I seriously question whether people even watch the games.

 

Feliciano as center in Seattle gave up 7 sacks and our RBs ran for 1.72 ypc.

 

In Arizona we ran for a little over 3 ypc.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

 

If it wasn't for Josh Allen being really tall, Feliciano would have multiple snaps over the QBs head a game.  The guy is not a good center at all.  He had this issue last year too when he had to fill in.

 

I seriously question whether people even watch the games.

 

Feliciano as center in Seattle gave up 7 sacks and our RBs ran for 1.72 ypc.

 

In Arizona we ran for a little over 3 ypc.

 

 

 

He does have an occasional snapping issue - I grant you that. The sacks against Seattle were mainly on blitz pickup and I think we do miss Morse there in helping set protections - although two of them are just absolute whifs by Knox and Singletary. Once the ball is snapped Feliciano gets significantly more push than Morse. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

I don't, but I don't understand why you think he might be completely lying about it?  He did answer to it in general terms which covers for Morse. I think if the injury history would have played into it, he could say coach's decision just to be sure he's over concussion  and IMO would have been less controversial while still covering for Morse.

 

But it is my opinion that IF Morse is our clear #1 center, you get him up to speed for the Cards and hope the momentum carries through.  I mean, coaches' attitude could have been "things just turned around for this O-line, wait till we plug Mitch back in and get Mongo back to guard vs the Cards!" but it wasn't.  Something seems up.

 

We'll see Sunday.

The interesting thing for me will be when ford is back who will be our best guards. While winters gets blown up the coaches seem to be locked on him playing. To me that signifies he is mentally making the right plays but physically he isn't getting it done which most coaches seem to prefer. Boettger seems to have played well enough that our best 5 might be Dawkins boettger mongo ford williams. Don't know if moving ford makes sense, but with him playing there last year and the bye week maybe they do it. If they want boettger in the top 5.

 

As an edit, we are getting into running season too, so I'm thinking we might be looking at getting  our best 5 run blockers out there. 

Edited by 4BillsintheBurgh
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm late to the party here, and haven't read the entire thread.   What I've seen is a pretty interesting discussion.   

 

I don't study the oline, and I don't have opinions about who's playing well and who isn't.  But the thread title and some of this discussion about Feliciano being better at center makes me think that the "football decision" McDermott made was driven by the upcoming bye week.  He had Morse coming back, and he knows that an extra two weeks without contact certainly is a good thing on the concussion front.   He also liked, apparently, the way things were going with Feliciano at center.  He'd also had a lot of disruption on the oline, with Spain dropping off the earth, Ford moving then getting injured, Feliciano coming back, Morse going down.   So his "football decision" may very well have been that for the Cards game he wanted continuity.   The continuity may have been more important to McDermott than any improvement he thought he might get by having Morse, Ford and Feliciano in the interior line spots.  

 

By keeping Morse off the field, McDermott got the continuity and then got two weeks to rework the oline one more time, so that he can come out of the bye with his three best players in the positions he wants them in, all healthy and ready to go.  

 

That's all just a hunch on my part, and someone may have said something similar in this thread.  If so, sorry for piling on. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm late to the party here, and haven't read the entire thread.   What I've seen is a pretty interesting discussion.   

 

I don't study the oline, and I don't have opinions about who's playing well and who isn't.  But the thread title and some of this discussion about Feliciano being better at center makes me think that the "football decision" McDermott made was driven by the upcoming bye week.  He had Morse coming back, and he knows that an extra two weeks without contact certainly is a good thing on the concussion front.   He also liked, apparently, the way things were going with Feliciano at center.  He'd also had a lot of disruption on the oline, with Spain dropping off the earth, Ford moving then getting injured, Feliciano coming back, Morse going down.   So his "football decision" may very well have been that for the Cards game he wanted continuity.   The continuity may have been more important to McDermott than any improvement he thought he might get by having Morse, Ford and Feliciano in the interior line spots.  

 

By keeping Morse off the field, McDermott got the continuity and then got two weeks to rework the oline one more time, so that he can come out of the bye with his three best players in the positions he wants them in, all healthy and ready to go.  

 

That's all just a hunch on my part, and someone may have said something similar in this thread.  If so, sorry for piling on. 

Makes sense.

I'm no expert on O line play, so I'll just say that my impression was the line was at its best last year when both Morse (C) and Feliciano (G) were on the field at the same time, so I have to assume the plan is to get back to that.

My favorite whipping boy over the last couple years was DiMarco, but now I have to wonder how much they miss him, particularly in the run game. I mean, it's a trade-off: Allen wouldn't have so many open targets with DiMarco on the field. But the option of going heavy with a good blocking RB (and maybe a good blocking TE too ... I guess that would be Lee Smith by default) just isn't there this year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

I don't, but I don't understand why you think he might be completely lying about it?  He did answer to it in general terms which covers for Morse. I think if the injury history would have played into it, he could say coach's decision just to be sure he's over concussion  and IMO would have been less controversial while still covering for Morse.

 

But it is my opinion that IF Morse is our clear #1 center, you get him up to speed for the Cards and hope the momentum carries through.  I mean, coaches' attitude could have been "things just turned around for this O-line, wait till we plug Mitch back in and get Mongo back to guard vs the Cards!" but it wasn't.  Something seems up.

 

We'll see Sunday.

 

So he takes the heat for it rather than the player.

 

Yes agree something does seem odd with this, that's what kind of makes me think there may be something to this idea that Morse may be in a "semi retired" mode for health reasons already. There could be some obscure legal and/or CBA reasons that it's best not to state what's behind it all.

 

Or he comes out Sunday, starts and plays all game and this was all a smokescreen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

My favorite whipping boy over the last couple years was DiMarco, but now I have to wonder how much they miss him, particularly in the run game. I mean, it's a trade-off: Allen wouldn't have so many open targets with DiMarco on the field. But the option of going heavy with a good blocking RB (and maybe a good blocking TE too ... I guess that would be Lee Smith by default) just isn't there this year. 

 

Run blocking with TE devoted to it has always been Lee Smith and none of the other TEs are close to him in run blocking. 

From game plans it has been clear they have been depending on Allen's arm first, Allen's legs 2nd and RBs third.

 

33 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Or he comes out Sunday, starts and plays all game and this was all a smokescreen.

 

Just because coach does not state reasons does not make it a smokescreen.

It is just a false alarm from press/fans/kibitzers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm late to the party here, and haven't read the entire thread.   What I've seen is a pretty interesting discussion.   

 

I don't study the oline, and I don't have opinions about who's playing well and who isn't.  But the thread title and some of this discussion about Feliciano being better at center makes me think that the "football decision" McDermott made was driven by the upcoming bye week.  He had Morse coming back, and he knows that an extra two weeks without contact certainly is a good thing on the concussion front.   He also liked, apparently, the way things were going with Feliciano at center.  He'd also had a lot of disruption on the oline, with Spain dropping off the earth, Ford moving then getting injured, Feliciano coming back, Morse going down.   So his "football decision" may very well have been that for the Cards game he wanted continuity.   The continuity may have been more important to McDermott than any improvement he thought he might get by having Morse, Ford and Feliciano in the interior line spots.  

 

By keeping Morse off the field, McDermott got the continuity and then got two weeks to rework the oline one more time, so that he can come out of the bye with his three best players in the positions he wants them in, all healthy and ready to go.  

 

That's all just a hunch on my part, and someone may have said something similar in this thread.  If so, sorry for piling on. 

 

It's what both Daboll and McDermott explicitly said, actually - that they thought the line that played vs NE and Seattle had done a good job and they wanted continuity and another look.  Since on OL, "working as one" is critical, I think it's reasonable to believe that the best line for that game may be the one that's just practiced together for 3 weeks and played two successful games vs. the one that has the guys who are theoretically the 5 best (but have at most, 3 days of practice together).

 

For some reason, people can't seem to take what they say at face value and have to puff it into some grand "doesn't like Morse as a player any more" "Morse still injured" "sabotage!" conspiracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Just because coach does not state reasons does not make it a smokescreen.

It is just a false alarm from press/fans/kibitzers.

 

I was referring to it as a smokescreen strictly from the standpoint of it adds a little bit (admittedly minor overall) of confusion for the Chargers.  Who will they be facing a center and guard.  I'm sure there are slight differences in how they might attack Morse vrs Feleciano at center or Feleciano  vrs Winters at guard.  If it makes the Chargers spend an extra 1/2 hour reviewing how blocking might be slightly altered, it's still 1/2 hour less spent on something else.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's what both Daboll and McDermott explicitly said, actually - that they thought the line that played vs NE and Seattle had done a good job and they wanted continuity and another look.  Since on OL, "working as one" is critical, I think it's reasonable to believe that the best line for that game may be the one that's just practiced together for 3 weeks and played two successful games vs. the one that has the guys who are theoretically the 5 best (but have at most, 3 days of practice together).

 

For some reason, people can't seem to take what they say at face value and have to puff it into some grand "doesn't like Morse as a player any more" "Morse still injured" "sabotage!" conspiracy.

Thanks.  You state it well.  

 

And I agree about the conspiracy theories, the smokescreens, and all that.  Every week, they're just trying to figure out how to win this week's football game, that's all.  They have dozens of decisions every week - who plays, who's inactive, who comes of the practice squad.  They think about it, talk about it, make a decision and move on.  They can't spend hours contemplating every decision.  In this case they probably simply decided that things had been going pretty well in the interior line and the bye week was the right time to do any repositioning.  That's a football decision.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Definitely agree Feliciano is a better center than guard (and the best center on the roster). Think that has been pretty obvious from day 1. As for the best combo I think it depends what the question is. If the question is purely focused on run game then I agree it is not out of the question. I think once you are looking at the big picture the chances become pretty remote. Especially because the Bills have acknowledged they are a pass first team. 

 

 

Yeah they also may be thinking about cutting ties with Morse after the season to save the $5M to help re-sign the healthier and better center............and his salary probably has injury guarantees if he is still not cleared in late March........which would be a concern if he gets another concussion.    

 

They already more than doubled down on their cap issues at the DT1T by cutting Dareus and signing Star to that fat contract.............getting Eric Wood-ed again by Morse and having to pay Feliciano at the same time would be disappointing.    

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He does have an occasional snapping issue - I grant you that. The sacks against Seattle were mainly on blitz pickup and I think we do miss Morse there in helping set protections - although two of them are just absolute whifs by Knox and Singletary. Once the ball is snapped Feliciano gets significantly more push than Morse. 

 

Push where??  In the running game?  Our running game has been beyond bad with Feliciano at center.  Morse is also significantly better at swinging in the run game than Feliciano.  We really miss Spain in that aspect too.

 

Go back and watch Singletary from last year.  Morse and Spain constantly leading him down field.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...