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The End of the Lamar Jackson Era


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32 minutes ago, NewEra said:

There you go https://sportsfinda.com/top-10-running-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/

 

Most running QBs don’t last because they suck.  The good running QBs last because they’re good

 

Kaep didn’t last because he sucked

young didnt last because he sucked

Cunningham played like 15+ years and had his best season in his 13th year 

 

Correct a handful out of decades only a few, thank you for making my point. 

 

Steve Young didn't suck, although I think you thought I was referring to Vince Young so no biggie.

Cunningham played best when he didn't run much. What's "best" from Cunningham to Vick was when they couldn't run as much and got better in the pocket. 

 

You still avoided the elephant in the room which is that Lamar went down statistically in every category from passing to rushing. Even if he has a bounce back year statistically in passing there is no way he can continue to run for 1k yards for 2-3 more years. He either improves in the pocket drastically or finds himself too expensive to be a starter but I agree with you that he's the best athlete we'll ever see in a QB for a long time. He's a great player.

 

If Lamar could develop into a better pocket passer he has the potential of continuing in the league. My point remains that no great running QB lasted long rushing for a ton of yards without transforming into a pocket passer almost exclusively. 

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43 minutes ago, BillsToast said:

 

Correct a handful out of decades only a few, thank you for making my point. 

 

Steve Young didn't suck, although I think you thought I was referring to Vince Young so no biggie.

Cunningham played best when he didn't run much. What's "best" from Cunningham to Vick was when they couldn't run as much and got better in the pocket. 

 

You still avoided the elephant in the room which is that Lamar went down statistically in every category from passing to rushing. Even if he has a bounce back year statistically in passing there is no way he can continue to run for 1k yards for 2-3 more years. He either improves in the pocket drastically or finds himself too expensive to be a starter but I agree with you that he's the best athlete we'll ever see in a QB for a long time. He's a great player.

 

If Lamar could develop into a better pocket passer he has the potential of continuing in the league. My point remains that no great running QB lasted long rushing for a ton of yards without transforming into a pocket passer almost exclusively. 

I hope he was confusing the Youngs.


Steve Young was a total stud and a great running QB who was also a great throwing QB.

 

He was just a great QB, full stop.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BillsToast said:

. Even if he has a bounce back year statistically in passing there is no way he can continue to run for 1k yards for 2-3 more years. 

 

 

Why? I think there is every chance he can. Teams have literally gameplanned around taking that away this season and he has still gone for over 1k. I think his passing numbers going forward will look more like 2020 than 2019 but I don't expect any real drop off in the run game. I think 900-1200 yards most seasons is a perfectly realistic expectation. 

 

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12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Why? I think there is every chance he can. Teams have literally gameplanned around taking that away this season and he has still gone for over 1k. I think his passing numbers going forward will look more like 2020 than 2019 but I don't expect any real drop off in the run game. I think 900-1200 yards most seasons is a perfectly realistic expectation. 

 

 

I don't think it's the gameplanning as you can't stop him, it's just that he's going to wear out or get injured.

 

I don't think a guy who is not built like a bull can take more than 3 years at this level without wearing down 5% which is more than enough to make him from Superman to great and great isn't enough to run for 1,000 yards+ when you're 27 after 6 years of football as a QB. He needs to push that number down to 600-800 yards and pass better or he'll wear out his body. 

 

It's not that 500 yards isn't that much, it's the extra hits in practice, harder workouts, and a body not made like a RB. 

 

Usain Bolt gave an interview explaining how the body peaks around 24-25 athletically and he realized he was slowing down in his late 20's. This is a guy who doesn't get hit. Many athletes say the same. 

 

Jackson runs twice as much as Randall Cunningham who hit his rushing wall at 27. McNair 25, and Vick 26. 

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5 hours ago, NewEra said:

There you go https://sportsfinda.com/top-10-running-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history/

 

Most running QBs don’t last because they suck.  The good running QBs last because they’re good

 

Kaep didn’t last because he sucked

young didnt last because he sucked

Cunningham played like 15+ years and had his best season in his 13th year 


New Era, lots of good points, but if you’re referring to Steve Young, and he didn’t last, I don’t understand.  Steve young has a career 64.5% career comp. %, played in the NFL for 15 years (additionally 2 years in the USFL) was league MVP twice, has a SB ring, and is in the HOF.  How did he suck?  I know he was hurt a lot towards the end, but he never sucked.  Now as an announcer, he can be a pain at times, but I don’t watch ESPN often except MNF, and even then I usually don’t watch the pregame.

 

I was a little surprised more people have not referenced Cunningham as he was a heck of a QB.

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2 hours ago, BillsToast said:

 

I don't think it's the gameplanning as you can't stop him, it's just that he's going to wear out or get injured.

 

I don't think a guy who is not built like a bull can take more than 3 years at this level without wearing down 5% which is more than enough to make him from Superman to great and great isn't enough to run for 1,000 yards+ when you're 27 after 6 years of football as a QB. He needs to push that number down to 600-800 yards and pass better or he'll wear out his body. 

 

It's not that 500 yards isn't that much, it's the extra hits in practice, harder workouts, and a body not made like a RB. 

 

Usain Bolt gave an interview explaining how the body peaks around 24-25 athletically and he realized he was slowing down in his late 20's. This is a guy who doesn't get hit. Many athletes say the same. 

 

Jackson runs twice as much as Randall Cunningham who hit his rushing wall at 27. McNair 25, and Vick 26. 

 

I don't agree. Late 20s slowing down? I can absolutely see. 28 onwards, yea. That is 5 years away. The evidence is that Quarterbacks get hurt more often in the pocket than running and if you can't have 1,000 yard seasons after the age of 23 because of the wear and tear why do so many running backs manage it? 

 

I don't see any reason why Lamar won't continue to be as productive with his legs for at least the next 5 seasons and possibly up to 7 or 8. As he approaches and bits 30 I'd be worried whether it is sustainable. In his 20s? It absolutely is.

 

And we don't know if Vick's rushing productivity dipped at 26. He spent the next two seasons suspended. 

 

I think you are completely and utterly wrong on this. Obviously only time will tell.

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One thing I've noticed with Jackson, is that he bails out (of bounds) when a run is looking like it's coming to an end. Someone has clearly made that a point of emphasis to him, and it's something that can help preserve his career.

 

Doing it that way, lessens chances for cheap shots when just sliding, or even just being landed on even without intent. It's probably in part a function of the fact that he is more successful running when he gets outside, but it's still sensible play on his part. He's essentially treating his run as 'taking what he's given' and avoiding additional contact unnecessarily.

 

He also doesn't necessarily rush as often as we might think, although as the going gets tough (closer games) he does run a bit more. Through the regular season, he averaged 10 runs a game, although whenever games were close, that went up. The most runs he's had in games this season, is 16, on I think 3 occasions, one of which was against the Titans.

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25 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Looks like the Bills are going to NEED to beat him or this thread gonna be hot fire come Saturday night.


he passes for 172 yards a game.  
 

if you want to praise him go ahead and do it now. 

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5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:


New Era, lots of good points, but if you’re referring to Steve Young, and he didn’t last, I don’t understand.  Steve young has a career 64.5% career comp. %, played in the NFL for 15 years (additionally 2 years in the USFL) was league MVP twice, has a SB ring, and is in the HOF.  How did he suck?  I know he was hurt a lot towards the end, but he never sucked.  Now as an announcer, he can be a pain at times, but I don’t watch ESPN often except MNF, and even then I usually don’t watch the pregame.

 

I was a little surprised more people have not referenced Cunningham as he was a heck of a QB.

I think the guy I was quoting was referring to Vince young.  
 

I see Steve young as top 5 ever

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On 12/15/2020 at 3:23 PM, BillsToast said:

 

Much of this is true, but the Lamar era ends next year. Which GM wants to pay him $30 mil for a guy on his physical downside and needs that physicality just be good or decent? He won't have games like last night in 4 years from today. 

 

This is his window, he's earned it. He should be praised and he should be enjoyed. He's a great player, one of the greatest we've seen, but we have to recognize he's a short window athlete heading towards the end of greatness relatively fast. It's just a shame guys like him and great RBs won't be rewarded in FA anymore. He'll be a millionaire if he can save now, but I doubt he'll get top 10 starter money by the end of next year. If they pick up his 5th year option it's just to get meat from the bones.

 

11 hours ago, BillsToast said:

 

Correct a handful out of decades only a few, thank you for making my point. 

 

Steve Young didn't suck, although I think you thought I was referring to Vince Young so no biggie.

Cunningham played best when he didn't run much. What's "best" from Cunningham to Vick was when they couldn't run as much and got better in the pocket. 

 

You still avoided the elephant in the room which is that Lamar went down statistically in every category from passing to rushing. Even if he has a bounce back year statistically in passing there is no way he can continue to run for 1k yards for 2-3 more years. He either improves in the pocket drastically or finds himself too expensive to be a starter but I agree with you that he's the best athlete we'll ever see in a QB for a long time. He's a great player.

 

If Lamar could develop into a better pocket passer he has the potential of continuing in the league. My point remains that no great running QB lasted long rushing for a ton of yards without transforming into a pocket passer almost exclusively. 

Sorry, I though the elephant in the room was that Lamar Jacksons era is over, as the title suggests.  My bad.

 

Ok, we want to talk about his passing?  

 

Let’s talk about......Hollywood brown.  Hes small, weak and has a negative catch radius.  Let’s talk about willie Snead.  He sucks.  Let’s talk about Miles Boykin.  He might be the best Lamar has, yet he’s a 3-4 on almost every other team. Their WR unit is soooo bad that they had to sign a WR that had been begging for tryouts has been out of the league for years.  Lamar has 1 legit target, Mark Andrew’s.  

 

Let’s talk about Lamars passing offense.  Mark Roman is the guy drawing up his pass plays.  Yup, mark roman.  

 

He had Marshall Yanda and Ronnie Stanley last year.  Now, he has Ben powers and DJ fluker. 
 

who is lamars qb coach?  David Culley.  Yeah, THAT David Culley.  
 

The ravens have done him zero favors with regards to helping him improve as a passer.  Since the ravens won’t be resigning him (at least I think that’s what you’re saying), maybe he’ll be signed by a team with nfl pass catchers, an OC that knows how to design pass plays and a QB coach that can actually teach him something about playing QB.  
 

I’m done here.  Agree to disagree.  You’re saying that he’s “toast” after next season. You’re saying that he’s going to get injured because he’s slender. You’re saying that he will be ineffective when he can only run for 600 yards (which will probably be after next year because that’s when his era is over)  Let’s wait and see.  


you’re comparing him to players that aren’t on his level.  The only one that was on his level athletically, Vick, had a career completion% of 53% prior to his joining Andy Reid and 59% while playing under Reid.  In lamars 2 years as a full time starts, his comp% has been 66 and 64.....while his WRs are Hollywood brown, Willie Snead, Miles Boykin and Dez Bryant. 
 

We’ll wait and see.  

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't agree. Late 20s slowing down? I can absolutely see. 28 onwards, yea. That is 5 years away. The evidence is that Quarterbacks get hurt more often in the pocket than running and if you can't have 1,000 yard seasons after the age of 23 because of the wear and tear why do so many running backs manage it? 

 

I don't see any reason why Lamar won't continue to be as productive with his legs for at least the next 5 seasons and possibly up to 7 or 8. As he approaches and bits 30 I'd be worried whether it is sustainable. In his 20s? It absolutely is.

 

And we don't know if Vick's rushing productivity dipped at 26. He spent the next two seasons suspended. 

 

I think you are completely and utterly wrong on this. Obviously only time will tell.

I think he stated why he wouldn’t last.  Because Lamar is “slender” 🤣

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10 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I hope he was confusing the Youngs.


Steve Young was a total stud and a great running QB who was also a great throwing QB.

 

He was just a great QB, full stop.

 

 

 

 

@BillsToastmentioned “young”, that’s why in brough him up.  I was assuming he was talking about Vince young.....because it’s obvious that Steve young is one of the greatest.

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9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

I think he stated why he wouldn’t last.  Because Lamar is “slender” 🤣

 

Yea that is horsecrap as far as I am concerned. 

 

The concern about his lack of development as a passer is legitimate and I suspect the 2020 passing production of Lamar Jackson is much closer to what we will see going forward than the 2019 passing production. But as a rusher.... I think he is just different than everyone that went before at the position. If people wanna call him a running back playing Quarterback go right ahead... but 2020 Lamar Jackson still won 11 football games. Even if this is the real ceiling of who he is and 2019 was an anomaly he is going to be around a fair while yet. He will probably never be a top 5 Quarterback. He will likely never win another MVP. Nut that does not mean an "era" is over. Because he can still be productive and help his team win plenty of games.  

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5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't agree. Late 20s slowing down? I can absolutely see. 28 onwards, yea. That is 5 years away. The evidence is that Quarterbacks get hurt more often in the pocket than running and if you can't have 1,000 yard seasons after the age of 23 because of the wear and tear why do so many running backs manage it? 

 

I don't see any reason why Lamar won't continue to be as productive with his legs for at least the next 5 seasons and possibly up to 7 or 8. As he approaches and bits 30 I'd be worried whether it is sustainable. In his 20s? It absolutely is.

 

And we don't know if Vick's rushing productivity dipped at 26. He spent the next two seasons suspended. 

 

I think you are completely and utterly wrong on this. Obviously only time will tell.

 

Not to mention he simply doesn't take as many hits as most RBs do. It's possible he'll get unlucky with injuries at some point but that same likelihood exists for every other QB.

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The legitimate criticism of Jackson is that he will never beat Mahomes.  You can't beat Mahomes unless you can throw the ball. Josh Allen has the type of talent needed to beat Mahomes. Only a few other guys in the entire NFL have that talent.  Jackson is 0-3 against Mahomes and I would not be shocked if in 10 years from now Jackson is 0 and 10 or whatever against him.  Mahomes is to Jackson what the Patriots were to the Bills for nearly two decades.

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