IgotBILLStopay Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) These are strange times - it will take 5-6 days of Covid protocol for a player to join practices even after signing. With Gaines opting out and now Norman’s lingering hamstring issue - is it time we started the process on Logan Ryan? The Jets game is less than 3 weeks away. Ryan, like Norman, is a perfect zone coverage DB. He will be a misfit in many man coverage schemes but fits the McD / Frazier scheme to a T. He was asking 10 mill, then had reportedly dropped it to 7-8 million - but now maybe available for 5 mill plus incentives. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/06/16/the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-in-zone-coverage/3/ Edit: And right on cue Bills work out 3 DBs!! Gotta hand it Beane - he doesnt miss a beat!! https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-bring-in-three-cornerbacks-for-tryouts/article_f50cddce-e723-11ea-8cb2-f7da4e9c8ba5.html Edited August 26, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Beane leaves no stone unturned. So if they can afford him, or want him he’ll be here. If not, I’m sure there’s a very good reason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 I thought he wanted to play safety. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: I thought he wanted to play safety. Yep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Not worried about DBs with McD, regardless of Normans status. I would assume since we need all the money we can get next year, we wont be using much more cap space so we can rollover to next season for upcoming extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ramza86 said: I thought he wanted to play safety. yes his agent put out stats comparing him to the top safeties (and he does look good in comparison) but that was likely because there were more safety openings than CB openings - though both are relatively scarce. i actually think Ryan’s versatility will be a plus for us - he can back up Poyer as well. Right now Cleveland’s DB group is decimated and they are front runners for signing a DB. But after that not many openings. Edited August 25, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Yep they will sign Logan Ryan.... right after they sign Clowney ??? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 I actually DO believe they may need to sign a corner at this point. I do NOT believe they need to spend big on Logan Ryan. Sign a depth guy until Norman heals up. That’s about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Logic said: I actually DO believe they may need to sign a corner at this point. I do NOT believe they need to spend big on Logan Ryan. Sign a depth guy until Norman heals up. That’s about it. I like this Logic! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalostu2 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Ryan is a slot corner and Norman plays outside...and as mentioned above wants to play safety. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) I think the organization is comfortable with Levi Wallace who looks to have come into camp in shape and stronger. If Norman started it would be in name only and it could potentially be a time share situation. Edited August 25, 2020 by billieve420 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, Logic said: I actually DO believe they may need to sign a corner at this point. I do NOT believe they need to spend big on Logan Ryan. Sign a depth guy until Norman heals up. That’s about it. That sounds logical 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Logan Ryan is a bad outside corner. His numbers last year when he had to play outside more were among the worst in the NFL. He is a slot corner and his agent knows the outside corner numbers are atrocious so is trying to change the narrative by comparing him to safeties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Josh Norman could be replaced by letting the grass grow an extra day and you wouldn’t see a drop off. He was literally the worst player in the NFL last year. He was targeted 46 times and gave up 7 TDs and 444 yards. Opposing QBs had a rating of 129 when targeting him. The guy is horrific, and he wasn’t much better in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Logan Ryan is a bad outside corner. His numbers last year when he had to play outside more were among the worst in the NFL. He is a slot corner and his agent knows the outside corner numbers are atrocious so is trying to change the narrative by comparing him to safeties. He was the best player on the field whether lined up inside or outside when the Bills played the titans last year. https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2019/10/8/20905243/logan-ryan-was-sensational-in-week-5-against-the-bills Edited August 25, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, IgotBILLStopay said: These are strange times - it will take 5-6 days of Covid protocol for a player to join practices even after signing. With Gaines opting out and now Norman’s lingering hamstring issue - is it time we started the process on Logan Ryan? The Jets game is less than 3 weeks away. Ryan, like Norman, is a perfect zone coverage DB. He will be a misfit in many man coverage schemes but fits the McD / Frazier scheme to a T. He was asking 10 mill, then had reportedly dropped it to 7-8 million - but now maybe available for 5 mill plus incentives. https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2020/06/16/the-nfls-best-cornerbacks-in-zone-coverage/3/ How many games did Morse miss last year? I recall how doomed we were last year as he sat at all of training camp and the pre-season because of a concussion. He's never going to last a full season everyone was stating. There were even threads discussing whether he may decide to suddenly retire. Sept rolled around, he played every game. Seems like I recall there was even a second Bills player last year who also missed most of the pre-season and everyone was worried there too. My point is this lingering hamstring may be just fine when the games count. And yes I do know McD made a comment on it, but didn't see much about the context it was stated in, so will worry about when we get to around Sept 5th or so. What is cut down day this year anyway? It's typically always the Saturday after the last pre-season game, so is it still Sept 5th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 I think lingering only means until the season starts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 They are not paying $10 mil. which is what he wants for a slot CB or Safety given Dr. Poyer and Mr. Hyde. So$9-10 mil. for a slot CB. No thanks guys. He’s a good player and those who are light at Safety, ok, but he’s played CB, not Safety, and paying that $ for those positions can be reserved for those weak in Secondaries. That is our best position group adding all. It is too bad, but respect his decision Gaines didn’t stay as when he is healthy, he’s good. He didn’t. Moving on. We’re not getting at the end of August some top outside CB. It’s not happening. Oh, and I just heard on NFLR White didn’t allow 1 TD In 2019, and the DB’s did not allow 1 deep TD from their secondary overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Billl said: Josh Norman could be replaced by letting the grass grow an extra day and you wouldn’t see a drop off. He was literally the worst player in the NFL last year. He was targeted 46 times and gave up 7 TDs and 444 yards. Opposing QBs had a rating of 129 when targeting him. The guy is horrific, and he wasn’t much better in 2018. Actually the stats show Logan Ryan was worse. And Norman jacked in 2019. I don't agree that he was horrible in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Actually the stats show Logan Ryan was worse. And Norman jacked in 2019. I don't agree that he was horrible in 2018. Ryan was much better than Norman. Ryan: 7.6 yards allowed per target, 5 TDs allowed in 103 targets, QB rating allowed 88.7, 4 INTs, 4.5 sacks Norman: 9.7 yards per target, 7 TDs allowed in 46 targets, QB rating allowed 129, 1 INT, 1 sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 36 minutes ago, Billl said: Ryan was much better than Norman. Ryan: 7.6 yards allowed per target, 5 TDs allowed in 103 targets, QB rating allowed 88.7, 4 INTs, 4.5 sacks Norman: 9.7 yards per target, 7 TDs allowed in 46 targets, QB rating allowed 129, 1 INT, 1 sack. Well Logan Ryan definitely allowed 6 TDs. All of these are Logan Ryan numbers from 2019: He surrendered the most receptions (80) of any cornerback in the NFL last season, a full 10 more than second-place Justin Coleman of Detroit. • He surrendered the most receiving yards (940) — and the most yards after catch (426) — of any cornerback in the league. • He surrendered six touchdown passes during the regular season, tied for eighth-most in the league among corners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted August 25, 2020 Author Share Posted August 25, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Actually the stats show Logan Ryan was worse. And Norman jacked in 2019. I don't agree that he was horrible in 2018. please. maybe you misspoke. they are in different tiers just based on last year. Norman is hoping he gets back to his better years in McD’s scheme. 2019 stats show him to be a washed up has been. Ryan is coming off a career year and is a top 10 zone CB in the league. mgk makes a more valid point - that we can’t afford another 10 mill for a CB at this juncture. I agree. But given the market, Ryan may take 5 mill plus incentives. he is a scheme fit, can cover inside and outside and brings safety position versatility as well. maybe worth it at 5 mill + incentives esp if it looks like we won’t be on the hook for incentive pay to josh norman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Well Logan Ryan definitely allowed 6 TDs. All of these are Logan Ryan numbers from 2019: He surrendered the most receptions (80) of any cornerback in the NFL last season, a full 10 more than second-place Justin Coleman of Detroit. • He surrendered the most receiving yards (940) — and the most yards after catch (426) — of any cornerback in the league. • He surrendered six touchdown passes during the regular season, tied for eighth-most in the league among corners. Ryan saw the field a lot more than Norman, so his suckage was more cumulative, I suppose. If Norman had seen the same amount of passes his way, he was pacing to give up 17 TDs. It’s really remarkable just how bad he was. I suppose if you’re trying to plug someone in for a historically inept CB in Josh Norman, Ryan’s a perfect fit. If you want to save money without a drop off in production, you could just play 10 on 11 and hire me to yell “DROP IT DROP IT DROP IT” at my television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 Just now, IgotBILLStopay said: please. maybe you misspoke. they are in different tiers just based on last year. Norman is hoping he gets back to his better years in McD’s scheme. 2019 stats show him to be a washed up has been. Ryan is coming off a career year and is a top 10 zone CB in the league. mgk makes a more valid point - that we can’t afford another 10 mill for a CB at this juncture. I agree. But given the market, Ryan may take 5 mill plus incentives. he is a scheme fit, can cover inside and outside and brings safety position versatility as well. maybe worth it at 5 mill + incentives esp if it looks like we won’t be on the hook for incentive pay to josh norman. Anyone who thinks Logan Ryan had a career year needs to think again. He was dreadful last year when asked to play more outside. See my post above for the numbers. Logan Ryan is a slot corner only. Outside he is a disaster zone. 1 minute ago, Billl said: Ryan saw the field a lot more than Norman, so his suckage was more cumulative, I suppose. If Norman had seen the same amount of passes his way, he was pacing to give up 17 TDs. It’s really remarkable just how bad he was. I suppose if you’re trying to plug someone in for a historically inept CB in Josh Norman, Ryan’s a perfect fit. If you want to save money without a drop off in production, you could just play 10 on 11 and hire me to yell “DROP IT DROP IT DROP IT” at my television. Norman was bad in 2019. No argument from me there. Logan Ryan was worse. That is why he remains unsigned. There is no mystery. NFL teams have his tape. Norman might be washed up. There is a chance he is. But I saw a guy who had jacked it in. He was walking on plays at times. I think there is a chance that the move to the Bills reinvigorates him. You aren't getting peak 2015 Josh Norman. But even the form of 2017 Josh Norman is an upgrade at CB2.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Wallace should start with Taron in the slot. No need to worry about the 4th or 5th CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protocal69 Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Billl said: Josh Norman could be replaced by letting the grass grow an extra day and you wouldn’t see a drop off. He was literally the worst player in the NFL last year. He was targeted 46 times and gave up 7 TDs and 444 yards. Opposing QBs had a rating of 129 when targeting him. The guy is horrific, and he wasn’t much better in 2018. how many games did you watch of Norman. If you dont think a scheme change was not going to help Norman then you dont understand the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Protocal69 said: how many games did you watch of Norman. If you dont think a scheme change was not going to help Norman then you dont understand the game What game should I watch? I’d love to get on your level of football knowledge, and I’ve got Gamepass. I’d love to know what scheme change is going to turn a guy who allowed 15 TDs on 132 targets over the past two seasons into a serviceable player. Give me an example of a game where he flashed enough to show that he’s ready for a renaissance at age 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Hearing good things out of camp about Cam Lewis. Just sayin.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 Boom: And right on cue Bills work out 3 DBs!! Gotta hand it Beane - he doesnt miss a beat!! https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-bring-in-three-cornerbacks-for-tryouts/article_f50cddce-e723-11ea-8cb2-f7da4e9c8ba5.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I just dont see Logan Ryan a bill Looks like we want to spend our big money on the DL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 8 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said: Boom: And right on cue Bills work out 3 DBs!! Gotta hand it Beane - he doesnt miss a beat!! https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-bring-in-three-cornerbacks-for-tryouts/article_f50cddce-e723-11ea-8cb2-f7da4e9c8ba5.html I wonder if they bring back the Seattle kid who was here for 3 days the other week. I do think there is a need for some corner depth if the Norman issue is going to linger. It just shouldn't be Logan Ryan. If Taron Johnson had just gone down for the year, that would be different. Logan Ryan would be a good fit in that spot (though expensive for a slot corner, which is exactly why his agent is talking him up as a safety). At the moment if Norman can't go the depth chart is: CB1 - White CB2 - Wallace NCB - Taron CB4 - Dane Jackson CB5 - Cam Lewis NCB - Siran Neal I think they would want at least one of those backup outside jobs to be filled by a guy who has taken snaps in an NFL game. Isaiah McKenzie maybe? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 8 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said: Boom: And right on cue Bills work out 3 DBs!! Gotta hand it Beane - he doesnt miss a beat!! https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-bring-in-three-cornerbacks-for-tryouts/article_f50cddce-e723-11ea-8cb2-f7da4e9c8ba5.html Bills to Pay, thanks for the find, and Oliver and Williams are most likely here for a practice squad slot. One thought from the Sirius training camp show yesterday stuck out on the Beane slot. He said to Pat and Mills in this odd off season, they proactively signed a number of veteran free agents to provide depth and needed position groups. His rationale was he needs guys that can come in and use their experience to contribute to the team. In a normal year, we would be working out more UDFA and can find some gems. I’m paraphrasing, but he has prepared in this off season for not only a three deep option at each position group, but also in all three phases of coaching, so who is option 1, 2, and 3 on who calls the game given a positive test for COVID. It was a revealing interview and gave a little more info. (Nothing earth shattering) than we typically get on a WGR interview. For those who have on their phone the Bills camp tour is now up on demand on Sirius. I do appreciate the article link, and just shows Beane is always looking ahead and staying ahead of problems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Lingering for an entire week or so. Do we have any feeling in the severity, have the Bills said? Even if they are not saying they are telling us things with their actions or lack there of. Maybe they need a corner but Logan Ryan probably not the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, mattynh said: Lingering for an entire week or so. Do we have any feeling in the severity, have the Bills said? Even if they are not saying they are telling us things with their actions or lack there of. Maybe they need a corner but Logan Ryan probably not the guy. If Norman isn't doing work next week then it's a pretty good chance he'll miss week 1. Ryan will be a decent amount of money. Not too much but a decent cap hit. Edited August 27, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 https://mobile.twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1300524412102496258 he got 7.5 mill - a bit too rich for us, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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