snafu Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I'm responding to the OP before I read the other posts. First > Which teams really have "Legit Backups"? One example that comes to mind is Vegas. If your "Legit Backup" is competing for the starting job.... Mariota VS Carr.... what does that say? (not to mention that some teams are looking for a Legit Starter) you beat me to it. The teams that don’t have their starter are not considered ready to compete. Any team that wants to win a championship needs to be good everywhere. 52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yea you are in the school of better to have a guy who is good when he doesn't have to play. I am in the school of better to have a guy who is good when he does. I think the NFL groupthink on this question is way outdated. Do you factor in that Barkley (with his flaws) is in his third season with this OC and personnel, whereas any other backup (with their flaws) would need the entire offense to be dumbed down in order to learn the plays and players? Maybe that’s a leveling element which helps overcome Barkley’s greater amount of flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 minute ago, snafu said: The teams that don’t have their starter are not considered ready to compete. Any team that wants to win a championship needs to be good everywhere. Do you factor in that Barkley (with his flaws) is in his third season with this OC and personnel, whereas any other backup (with their flaws) would need the entire offense to be dumbed down in order to learn the plays and players? Maybe that’s a leveling element which helps overcome Barkley’s greater amount of flaws. I’m not ready to toss in the towel on Barkley just yet. Last year’s cameo was a mess for sure but I’m willing to chalk it up to a meaningless start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I love the Bills, but I'm not sure they have reached Achilles status. He was 24 - 1, after all. Having said that, the etymology of the name can be analyzed as meaning "he who has the people distressed", so I am willing to concede it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Davis Webb seems to have the head for it. Was hoping he could take the spot from Barkley. But that seems unlikely. No idea how he’s been in the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 24 minutes ago, snafu said: Do you factor in that Barkley (with his flaws) is in his third season with this OC and personnel, whereas any other backup (with their flaws) would need the entire offense to be dumbed down in order to learn the plays and players? Maybe that’s a leveling element which helps overcome Barkley’s greater amount of flaws. It factors in, for sure, and knowing what we know now about the limited offseason maybe even a more talented guy would have had difficult supplanting Barkley but the Bills didn't know that when they were putting together their offseason plan. The truth is, also, that the Bills already have to significantly dumb down their offense when Barkley goes in because he just can't make the same throws Josh can. We saw that last year. They tried to keep running the offense and he just can't do it. If Josh missed 2-3 weeks they would have to really reign in the passing game. It's not like he can just walk out there and carry on running the Bills base offense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) Curious, how many teams have back up QBs that can win more than a couple of games for their team, and how many teams can prop up their back up the back up QB to the extent they win in the post season? Go Bills!!! Edited August 17, 2020 by Don Otreply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I think the team's achilles heel at the moment is the inability to really step on the the gas when they're up. It bit buffalo in a couple of games as the defense wasn't able to hold up. The playoff loss, the losses to NE and CLE, near losses to cincy/miami. I don't even really know what it is. Sometimes playcalling got cute and they'd do dumb stuff, sometimes it was drops/turnovers, and sometimes it was just poor execution. A sack is a drive killer, a penalty is a drive killer, etc. The identity needs to be there for this to happen. I think moss can be a big part of helping close out games. Get that 7-10 point lead and hammer them with moss and play action. The goal is to win, and you want to mitigate risk to make that happen, but playing too risk averse can cost you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It factors in, for sure, and knowing what we know now about the limited offseason maybe even a more talented guy would have had difficult supplanting Barkley but the Bills didn't know that when they were putting together their offseason plan. The truth is, also, that the Bills already have to significantly dumb down their offense when Barkley goes in because he just can't make the same throws Josh can. We saw that last year. They tried to keep running the offense and he just can't do it. If Josh missed 2-3 weeks they would have to really reign in the passing game. It's not like he can just walk out there and carry on running the Bills base offense. They tried to keep running their offense against the Pats, whose defense was smacking us around even before Barkley ever went into the game. I do understand your point. I think our crappy backup is a toss up at this point is just as good/bad as another crappy backup, just in different ways. I’m hoping that a good, solid running game would alleviate Barkley’s arm issues, and I think we may have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 List the teams with backups as good as their starters. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Digg? Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I think it’s pretty obvious back up QB was not really a priority the last couple of years. They needed to upgrade a lot of positions and Beane has done a great job of that. I do think they have enough quality starters and depth that if Allen does go down for a game or two they have enough confidence in Barkley to do enough in those games. They know they need to upgrade the back up position, and perhaps they put a call in to gauge the I tweet of Dalton, Marriotta, etc. but they chose to focus their money and resources over the last couple of years on making the rest of the team better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: So if you had your choice to add Frank Reich or Jim Kelly to this roster what is your choice? Obviously you're adding Kelly. How about you can have Frank Reich, Thurman and Andre or Jim Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) We talk about how much better Allen should look with a cohesive OL, more experienced Knox, top 10 WR trio and a strong RB duo... Well, whoever our backup is gets to play with those guys too, should he need to see any time. I'm not in love with Barkley, but as a game manager, with those weapons, and our defense, I think he can be ok. Edited August 17, 2020 by SCBills 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, dneveu said: I think the team's achilles heel at the moment is the inability to really step on the the gas when they're up. It bit buffalo in a couple of games as the defense wasn't able to hold up. The playoff loss, the losses to NE and CLE, near losses to cincy/miami. I don't even really know what it is. Sometimes playcalling got cute and they'd do dumb stuff, sometimes it was drops/turnovers, and sometimes it was just poor execution. A sack is a drive killer, a penalty is a drive killer, etc. The identity needs to be there for this to happen. I think moss can be a big part of helping close out games. Get that 7-10 point lead and hammer them with moss and play action. The goal is to win, and you want to mitigate risk to make that happen, but playing too risk averse can cost you as well. This, ^^^ It is all our hopes that sitting on a one to three score lead and in effect for what ever the reasons, having the offense take their foot off the gas has bit the team in the azs hard enough that they stop with this “leave it to the defense to close it out” thought process. The offense really needs a constant attack mentality if we are to get to the promise land. I have a high level of confidence that the team has the talent do what needs to be done, ??Truth he told, I am a bit iffy on Brian bringing it to fruition. Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, P Riv said: Totally agree with the OP. We really do need a veteran QB as a backup/insurance, but also as a mentor to the young guys. This is pretty standard across the league since there really was a league and I think the Front Office is taking a risk when they really didn't need to. Could be a major eF up. Barkley is the veteran guy/mentor , though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Think back just two years and you’ll see what a real QB problem looks like going into a season! Peterman? Really? People....please! Reading through this thread I was wondering who would bring up Peterpick and when. Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I guess I'd have to consider the offensive line the weak point of the team. They were much improved last year but still below average. And we all saw Allen running for his life in that playoff game. He had no chance. It's a line that can get the job done, but it lacks any really good starters. All of them are average or below average (I guess you can out Morse in the above average category). I really hope they show improvement this year because they were a big reason we lost that playoff game. On almost every key play Allen had multiple rushers in his face as soon as he took the snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Nobody worries more about the backup QB than Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Well we had Nate Peterman and let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Backup anything can never be a "glaring hole." My cousin used to tell me that it isn't just injuries that matter, but injuries at which position at which point in the season. Whether you will need to call on your backup and in what games is critical, and most starters survive the season without major injuries. So I'm not calling backup a glaring weakness. Beyond that, the Bills run on systems; they don't count on stars. In particular, if you read one of any of fifty threads about Allen here, people aren't counting on him being a star. They're counting on him being an above average guy who wins games by getting the ball to the best overall collection of skill players the Bills have had in a couple decades, behind a veteran, experienced line playing its second season together. In other words, if Allen gets hurt, no one is expecting that the Bills will be losing an 800-yard rusher or a 5,000-yard passer. Even 4,000 yards. Point being that if the Bills' offense is what McDermott and Daboll want it to be, a good, smart game manager should be able to fill in for a few weeks without a huge drop off in production. Matt Barkley hasn't lit the world on fire, but he knows the system inside and out, he has maturity, and he has the respect of the team. Fromm is smart and the quintessential game manager - he played and won a lot of big games in college, executing a high-powered offense. Even Webb has promise. I haven't paid much attention to him, but the guy was a big-time recruit, split time with Baker Mayfield at Texas Tech, started at Texas Tech but lost the job to Mahomes, and had an excellent senior season at California. The guy can play, and if you recall, he led the big off-season workout when Allen and all the receivers got together. If you're talking proven backup, sure, the Bills don't have one. Few teams do. But given that the Bills aren't looking for Allen to be All-Pro this season (they'd love it, of course, but the Bills need that much from him to win), and given the history and nature of the potential backups, I'm not losing any sleep. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, snafu said: They tried to keep running their offense against the Pats, whose defense was smacking us around even before Barkley ever went into the game. I do understand your point. I think our crappy backup is a toss up at this point is just as good/bad as another crappy backup, just in different ways. I’m hoping that a good, solid running game would alleviate Barkley’s arm issues, and I think we may have that. If we can run like the 49ers in the playoffs that would help. If we have to throw it with Barkley we are in trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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