Lack of legit backup QB may be Bills' 2020 Achilles heel

[Doc]

36 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Dude said the Steelers...?

 

Yup.  If Roethlisberger is done.  Which I may be wrong about.  But if that's all ya got...

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You said they'd beat the Rams, Raiders, and Broncos. Ridiculous. They'd lose all 3.

 

Lose all 3?  Because they're such great teams?  LOL!

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Nobody knows what we have at backup qb. There are 3 guys. All with potential. Any of the 3 could turn out to be very good backup quarterbacks. Fromm was drafted for a reason. You don’t draft a qb, when you have a young 1st round QB and an already paid backup...they are going to give him plenty of chances.

[TBBills]

16 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You severely underrate how important the QB position is to a team.... Bills offense would be hard pressed to score 2 TDs with Barkley as their QB. 

Or with any other backup QB...

[Doc]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

You severely underrate how important the QB position is to a team.... Bills offense would be hard pressed to score 2 TDs with Barkley as their QB. 

 

Obviously a QB is important to a team.  But if you have a strong team you can still win without have a great or even good one.  I listed the teams I did because they're not that good teams despite their QBs.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Doc

[TBBills]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes yes. I forgot. All back up QBs are equal.

They are all bad which is why they are the backup

To think this thread would get to 9 pages is funny but people will complain about anything they can. Didn't we draft a QB, that is how it should be keep drafting QB's.

Edited August 19, 2020 by TBBills

[GunnerBill]

18 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Lose all 3?  Because they're such great teams?  LOL!

 

They might beat the Raiders. Lose the other two.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

They might beat the Raiders. Lose the other two.

 

They can beat them all.  Teams like the Chefs, Seahawks, probably the Cheaters and Titans?  I'd say unlikely.

[Bangarang]

The only QB who matters is 17. 

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

They can beat them all.  Teams like the Chefs, Seahawks, probably the Cheaters and Titans?  I'd say unlikely.

 

I think the Rams will be better than the Seahawks and the Broncos will be better than the Titans (although less confident on the latter since Ja'Wuan James opted out). 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

 

I think I would compare our back up situation to that of the Steelers last year. Rudolph and Duck were pretty bad. Otherwise the Steelers were pretty stacked as a team overall. If Josh misses a game or two we might survive a two game losing streak to still make the playoffs. But if he goes down for 4-5 games. We might be looking at 1-3  or 1-4.  

 

Barkley's big game against the Jets seems like ages ago as he hasn't looked that great in the games he has appeared in since, albeit in less than ideal circumstances against the Patriots stout defense and Jets last year without most all of our starting offense. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

The only QB who matters is 17. 

So he will be NFL draft eligible in 4 years....

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I think I would compare our back up situation to that of the Steelers last year. Rudolph and Duck were pretty bad. Otherwise the Steelers were pretty stacked as a team overall. If Josh misses a game or two we might survive a two game losing streak to still make the playoffs. But if he goes down for 4-5 games. We might be looking at 1-3  or 1-4.  

 

Barkley's big game against the Jets seems like ages ago as he hasn't looked that great in the games he has appeared in since, albeit in less than ideal circumstances against the Patriots stout defense and Jets last year without most all of our starting offense. 

 

Rudolph was a mixed bag. He had a couple of decent games and a couple of awful games. They should never have benched him for Duck who outside of a game against Cleveland utterly sucked.

[GunnerBill]

NFL has ranked Barkley 27/32 today for what it is worth. 

[C.Biscuit97]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

NFL has ranked Barkley 27/32 today for what it is worth. 

Buffalo Bill bias

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

No.

 

They'll be lucky to win 1 if he starts a game.... unless like I said it's against the Jets or Chargers.... Crossing my fingers he doesn't have to but if he does we can put together a friendly wager. 

 

Not wagering on Josh to get hurt/Barkley to play.  Bad mojo.

[ehfeuh57]

[KD in CA]

Have we reached the part of this month's 'OMG, Backup QB!!!' thread where people keep bringing up the Eagles from 3 years ago while ignoring that 99% of the time teams go no where if their starter gets hurt?

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Have we reached the part of this month's 'OMG, Backup QB!!!' thread where people keep bringing up the Eagles from 3 years ago while ignoring that 99% of the time teams go no where if their starter gets hurt?

 

Well, there was Teddy B last year with a stacked Saints team.  

[KD in CA]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

What a lazy take 

 

Lazier than a new ten page thread on the back QB every month?

 

[TBBills]

21 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Ridiculous take. Thanks.

You know everyone seems to say the same about your posts.

[reddogblitz]

I wish we had someone better, especially this year.  But I'm not too worried. Barkley is not bad. He has gotten in 3 games since he's been here. The 2018 Jets game was stellar.  He got in the Cheats game last year. He played pretty well. He came on on 3rd and 8 and completed a 15 yard pass on the sideline to John Brown.  He also had several drops including one to I think it was and he hit Zay in the EZ in the hands on 4th down but it bounced off.  The final game was a tire fire scrub fest. Not going to put too much into that.

 

I think/hope he will be alright.

[Mountain Man]

11 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

NFL has ranked Barkley 27/32 today for what it is worth. 

That list is utterly laughable. It has Geno Smith in the top 12 and Tim Boyle, a QB who has thrown 4 NFL passes in the top 20. You just need to read the comments about some of the QBs to know how bad it is. The Henne one for example is just absurd. 

 

I'm genuinely surprised that article passed the editorial process 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mountain Man

[Da webster guy]

On 8/17/2020 at 5:41 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Well I guess back on topic, starting QB is the Bills Achilles heel.

Right.

 

11 wins in his 1st full NFL season including taking his team to overtime in the playoffs.

(Ok 10 wins but we sat everyone and the Jets still almost lost)

 

SIX game winning drives.

 

2 picks in his last 11 games.

 

More touchdowns than Brees and Brady last year.

 

Yeah this guy is a Real liability.  

Cmon man.

 

[BobbyC81]

1 hour ago, Mountain Man said:

That list is utterly laughable. It has Geno Smith in the top 12 and Tim Boyle, a QB who has thrown 4 NFL passes in the top 20. You just need to read the comments about some of the QBs to know how bad it is. The Henne one for example is just absurd. 

 

I'm genuinely surprised that article passed the editorial process 

 

 

For most articles I read these days, I have to ask “What editorial process?”

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Mountain Man said:

That list is utterly laughable. It has Geno Smith in the top 12 and Tim Boyle, a QB who has thrown 4 NFL passes in the top 20. You just need to read the comments about some of the QBs to know how bad it is. The Henne one for example is just absurd. 

 

I'm genuinely surprised that article passed the editorial process 

 

 

 

Yea I didn't love it as a list either. But I do think they had Barkley pitched right. Agree with you about Geno in the top 12. That is bonkers. As is the idea that Tim Boyle is the real backup in Green Bay. Sitting your 1st round pick behind Aaron Rodgers is one thing.... if Rodgers goes down, Love is playing, The reason Boyle is getting 2nd team reps the first week of camp is the typical "make the rookie earn it" thing. Even Pat Mahomes took 3rd string reps early in his first camp.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

Right.

 

11 wins in his 1st full NFL season including taking his team to overtime in the playoffs.

(Ok 10 wins but we sat everyone and the Jets still almost lost)

 

SIX game winning drives.

 

2 picks in his last 11 games.

 

More touchdowns than Brees and Brady last year.

 

Yeah this guy is a Real liability.  

Cmon man.

 

QB is one of the worst positions on our team. Its just a fact. Its not a strength of the team, which makes it a weakness.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

QB is one of the worst positions on our team. Its just a fact. Its not a strength of the team, which makes it a weakness.

Maybe I just haven't any coffee yet, but this post is a wakeup call.   

 

At first I thought it was an absurd response to someone's rose-colored-glasses view.  Then I read it again.  I suppose you could argue about it, but you're probably right.  Examine the Bills by position groups, and QB may be the weakest.  Actually, I'd say second weakest, behind the tight ends.  

 

Without spending a whole lot of time on it, here's a ranking of position groups and a wild-ass, off-the-top-of-my-head league ranking.  I won't defend it, because it's pretty hard to know for sure and it's open to a lot of debate:

 

Defensive backs - top 5

Wideouts - top 5

Defensive line -top 10

Offensive line - top 15

Linebackers - top 15

Running backs - top 20

Quarterbacks - top 20

Tight ends - top 25

 

That's why we keep saying the season hangs on Allen's progress.  

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 8/17/2020 at 4:23 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I wish we had a Jim Kelly.

Out of respect for sentimentality, I'll avoid being overly in disagreement with this.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Maybe I just haven't any coffee yet, but this post is a wakeup call.   

 

At first I thought it was an absurd response to someone's rose-colored-glasses view.  Then I read it again.  I suppose you could argue about it, but you're probably right.  Examine the Bills by position groups, and QB may be the weakest.  Actually, I'd say second weakest, behind the tight ends.  

 

Without spending a whole lot of time on it, here's a ranking of position groups and a wild-ass, off-the-top-of-my-head league ranking.  I won't defend it, because it's pretty hard to know for sure and it's open to a lot of debate:

 

Defensive backs - top 5

Wideouts - top 5

Defensive line -top 10

Offensive line - top 15

Linebackers - top 15

Running backs - top 20

Quarterbacks - top 20

Tight ends - top 25

 

That's why we keep saying the season hangs on Allen's progress.  

 

 

I might swap Dline and Oline but otherwise these are pretty much where I would put them.

[Shaw66]

43 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I might swap Dline and Oline but otherwise these are pretty much where I would put them.

I've never done that before.  It's an interesting way to look at the team.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Maybe I just haven't any coffee yet, but this post is a wakeup call.   

 

At first I thought it was an absurd response to someone's rose-colored-glasses view.  Then I read it again.  I suppose you could argue about it, but you're probably right.  Examine the Bills by position groups, and QB may be the weakest.  Actually, I'd say second weakest, behind the tight ends.  

 

Without spending a whole lot of time on it, here's a ranking of position groups and a wild-ass, off-the-top-of-my-head league ranking.  I won't defend it, because it's pretty hard to know for sure and it's open to a lot of debate:

 

Defensive backs - top 5

Wideouts - top 5

Defensive line -top 10

Offensive line - top 15

Linebackers - top 15

Running backs - top 20

Quarterbacks - top 20

Tight ends - top 25

 

That's why we keep saying the season hangs on Allen's progress.  

 

I'm critical of Allen but I don't blindly criticize him. I've completed changed my opinion of him from the draft process to now. He deserves people take him seriously but he has a long way to go. Quarterback is my biggest worry heading into the season but also the position I'm most intrigued about.

[Mountain Man]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I didn't love it as a list either. But I do think they had Barkley pitched right. Agree with you about Geno in the top 12. That is bonkers. As is the idea that Tim Boyle is the real backup in Green Bay. Sitting your 1st round pick behind Aaron Rodgers is one thing.... if Rodgers goes down, Love is playing, The reason Boyle is getting 2nd team reps the first week of camp is the typical "make the rookie earn it" thing. Even Pat Mahomes took 3rd string reps early in his first camp.

Barkley has actually put in credible performances in the last 5 years unlike half that list. 

 

The top 6 makes sense. Then it's a joke. 

 

Smith, Flacco, Henne, Daniel, Siemian. 11 to 15? When was the last time any of those did anything? Barkley is no worse than any of those based on performances in the last 5 years.

 

It shows that numerical lists of these sorts are really really pointless. They should group them into types of players and have a few standout names at the top and bottom. 

 

Then you get the likes of Kyle Allen at 21. A guy who actually looked competent in games recently. He should easily be top 10.

 

Beyond the top 6. You would get a better ranking if you just selected names at random

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

Barkley has actually put in credible performances in the last 5 years unlike half that list. 

 

The top 6 makes sense. Then it's a joke. 

 

Smith, Flacco, Henne, Daniel, Siemian. 11 to 15? When was the last time any of those did anything? Barkley is no worse than any of those based on performances in the last 5 years.

 

It shows that numerical lists of these sorts are really really pointless. They should group them into types of players and have a few standout names at the top and bottom. 

 

Then you get the likes of Kyle Allen at 21. A guy who actually looked competent in games recently. He should easily be top 10.

 

Beyond the top 6. You would get a better ranking if you just selected names at random

 

Flacco is way better than Barkley. You don't need to go back 5 years. Last year will do. 

 

Barkley is a bottom end backup who Bills fans have a rose tinted view on because his career best day was his Bills debut. That was the exception. What we saw last year is the rule. 

[Mountain Man]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Flacco is way better than Barkley. You don't need to go back 5 years. Last year will do. 

 

Barkley is a bottom end backup who Bills fans have a rose tinted view on because his career best day was his Bills debut. That was the exception. What we saw last year is the rule. 

Flacco's movement is horrific. Behind anything but a league leading O line he is done. Behind the Jets O line, you may as well use a running back and play the wildcat

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Barkley is a bottom end backup who Bills fans have a rose tinted view on because his career best day was his Bills debut. That was the exception. What we saw last year is the rule. 

Barkleys performances are no worse than those of Geno, Henne, Daniel. Is that of a good backup? Maybe not, I wouldn't want any starting. But if Barkley is 27, those other 3 should be at best 24 to 26.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Mountain Man

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

Flacco's movement is horrific. Behind anything but a league leading O line he is done. Behind the Jets O line, you may as well use a running back and play the wildcat

Barkleys performances are no worse than those of Geno, Henne, Daniel. Is that of a good backup? Maybe not, I wouldn't want any starting. But if Barkley is 27, those other 3 should be at best 24 to 26.

 

Well Flacco last year behind a bad Denver line was still better than Barkley behind a decent Bills line. 

 

And I agree on Geno, and Henne. I'd have Chase Daniel 32/32. Being Drew Brees mate has earned him a career. 

[Simon Says]

On 8/17/2020 at 2:26 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

I think back up QB is the one glaring hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season.  Not only do we have to worry about a regular injury to Josh Allen this year, we also have to worry about him coming down with COVID19 and missing several games while he recuperates.  We don't have another QB on this roster that I have confidence in to step into the lineup for three weeks and win us 1 or 2 games.  I was really hoping we would make a run at Andy Dalton when he was released.  How valuable was having Foles,  Bridgewater, and Tanneyhill for the Eagles, Saints, and Titans over the last few seasons?

 

I know there are only so many quality QBs that become available each year, but I think that when you are putting together a team that has a legitimate shot at winning a championship, you need to make an investment in a quality backup QB.  I think it's worth $3-4 million a year in cap space to do so, especially when your starting QB is still on his rookie contract.  To put that amount into perspective, that's half of what Beane will pay Trent Murphy this year to be a rotational DE.   Dalton is getting $3 mil from the Cowboys this year.

 

This year the depth of your roster is going to be more important than ever due to COVID19.  We have quality depth at just about every position on the field except for the single most important one.  I do not mean to bash Beane with this post.  I am a huge Brandon Beane supporter and I think it's a miracle where we stand today compared to where we were just three years ago.  That improvement is due in large part to how well Beane has done his job. Maybe he has tried but was unsuccessful in signing a quality backup.  Who knows?   At the end of the day I would just feel a lot more comfortable going into this season with someone more accomplished than Matt Barkley holding a clipboard next to Josh Allen.

 

I think it is hard to dispute that backup QB is the single biggest hole on our roster heading into the 2020 season.  I hope it doesn't cost us.

 

You can't assume Bills would have offered enough to entice Dalton,or that he would even want  to come to Buffalo. Especially since he is from Texas.