NFL Players Staging Revolt

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SectionC3 said:

1.  You made a mistake in your first sentence.  You should have said "groundless," "baseless," "entirely contrived," or something like that.  

 

2.  You don't know who is and who is not bubbling.  You're just speculating.  Or making it up.  Guys with kids might not be out much.

 

3.  You didn't say within teams earlier.  And that's sort of the point.  The Bills can police the Bills.  Maybe.  But they can't fire anyone who doesn't respect social and health norms.  Only the employer can do that.  And they also have to come into close contact with players on 12 other NFL teams this year, some of which may not self-police and some of which might have a bunch of knuckleheads who think that they're fine if they chew on some hydroxycloroquine each morning with their Flintstones vitamins.  The only ones who can police the "other" teams are the owners.  And how is "our" team or "my" team kept safe in this scenario?  Daily testing.  Employer-mandated, stringent safety measures.  Nothing less.  

 

LOL!  With a "definition" like "guys with kids [who] might not be out much," no wonder you believe that some players have "bubbled."  Even if we were to accept that weak definition, no player has "bubbled" the way the NFL has proposed.  But I'm willing to wait for you to provide proof that even just one player has.

 

And I figure it's the lawyer in you you that makes you want to claim that since I didn't specify that I meant players on the same team need to police each other, that I meant players separated by hundreds to thousands of miles can somehow police each other.  This isn't a court of law.  But yes, teammates can and should police each other.  An employer's stringent safety measures are only as good as the people following them and a teammate found violating the rules puts everyone's health, and career, in jeopardy.

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Hockey as well. NHL reported today 2 positive tests out of 2618 tests on 800 players in their phase 3 of return to play TC.

 

multiple college football programs have reported few or zero positive tests in their current stage of workouts. 

And nba 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

"There's no plan!!"  "We aren't being told anything!"  "We want answers!!"

 

"oh"

[FLFan]

23 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

No argument at all, as long as they don’t get paid like the rest of America.  I don’t disagree with you.  Don’t work, don’t get paid.  Work and get paid.  We’re not a socialist state.

Of course.  If they are not comfortable, they do not have to play, and they will not be paid.  No issue there. 

[North Buffalo]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think some of the players, especially the older "star" players, are worried about effects like this, from rowing World Champion and Olympic medalist Emily Regan.

The point that gets missed, Over and Over and Over again - the impact of this disease is far more than mortality.  It's how many people have mild disease, but become ill enough to feel an impact (and elite athletes feel impact at a point where Joe and Jill Jones from Johnstown don't).  

 

I could be wrong, but I think some of the things they're worried about are, if they play and contract covid-19, arguably (but not proveably) at a team facility or from football-related activities, how will the team handle it for various player contracts and various points in the season.  Key points that might be in contention:

-Will players who participate, take all mandated precautions, and contract covid-19 be treated as injured (pay) or as NFI, non football injury (no pay)?

-For UDFA and UFA trying to make the team, will they get a salary for the season?  Will they get an injury settlement, and if so for how long?  Or will they just be paid for camp?

-What about if they suffer lasting (measurable) impact?

That kind of thing.

 

I'm not going to go into the "Black Plague" toughen-up-you-weanies-140k deaths-is-nuttin' silliness here.  You can wander over to the covid-19 discussion threads and I'll be happy to entertain your enlivening thoughts on the subject with some math and facts.

 

 

The scheme I've seen is actually a clever piece of technology.  It's holes in a plastic shield, but they're offset so as to prevent expulsion of particles.
You wouldn't think it would work, but it's actually quite clever.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29454756/nfl-unveils-oakley-mouth-shield-combat-coronavirus

Looks like it might work... wonder if hockey uses the lower part in its full shield.  Nice

[billsfan_34]

On 7/19/2020 at 1:09 PM, CSBill said:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/07/nfl-players-we-want-to-play-twitter-campaign-coronavirus

 

There is a coordinated effort by the players today, apparently. I find it hard to disagree with them. The NFL has had more time than any other league to prepare for this, and it appears they have not. I guess they left it up to the individual teams. And that was/is a bad idea. It will be interesting to see where this goes. But my hunch is that the camps that were supposed to open this week will not.

Goodell is a marketing dude but he sucks at everything else.

[North Buffalo]

6 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

  The pandemonium about the rise in Covid cases is just absurd.  My three kids and ex wife have all probably gotten it in the past 4-5 weeks.  And the worst was my older son (college football player) who had stomach flu for 3 days.  My daughter (young adult) felt tired, and my younger son (17) had a 100 degree fever for about a day and a half.  My ex wife had a cold for a week.  It took her at least 8 days to get her test results, and by that point she was absolutely fine.  Most of the people who get the virus have mild symptoms to no symptoms.  The death rate for healthy people in general and those under 55 is very very low.  So I am not even sure why the players are that scared of even getting the virus.  Its not going away anytime soon.  And we just need to deal with it on an individual level as best we can.  The NFL players are young and healthy.  If they are that afraid, then don't play.  But why should they get paid?  The fear and overreaction that has enveloped a good portion of society (including many on this message board) is staggering.  Its like most adults have never dealt with tough times struggles or hardship in their life.  I see all of that every day in my business for the past 30 years.  Unless the death rate starts approaching levels last seen during the Black Plague of the middle ages, (a little hyperbole to make a point)  I do not see any reason to get overly alarmed .  And I sure hope the NFL players feel the same way. 

 

Hey Nascar keeps rolling.  And they actually had a decent amount of fans at the race in Ft Worth yesterday.  I suggest you all start following it.  It is that exciting.  And this is coming from a huge football fan for over 4 decades.  Now I just hope I can have both!!

Sorry but most of what you posted are not symptoms.... fever maybe stomach flu nope.  PS I had it, it sucked, high fever, head aches, heart palpitations, abdominal pain, weakness... tested pos for antibodies... and yes I work in a hospital in southern NY where we saw up to 11 people die a day... still see people dying of it though more like 2-3 a week.  It causes heart attacks, PEs, and aneurysms. Treatments have gotten better and there is some trial stuff out there that is very promising. That being said... this is not a joke... it causes longterm lung scaring in younger asymptomatic people... 

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Goodell is a marketing dude but he sucks at everything else.

 

None of these decisions are Goodell's.

[billsfan_34]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

None of these decisions are Goodell's.

OK

[eball]

10 hours ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Assuming this hasn't been determined, part of me feels like a big sticking point for players is what happens to a player who decides to opt-out of playing for health concerns.

 

What happens if Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady* or Lamar Jackson or Gronk* or Drew Brees decide their (fill-in-the-blank reason...pregnant wives, children, etc.) are more important than playing this season? 

 

Does the NFL really want ten prime time games with Chad Henne and Blaine Gabbert under center? I'm gonna say no. I can see the NFL sitting on this to ensure their stars, so to speak, are aligned with the prime time games.

 

But then again, I'm just a Bills home who loves the game, so I can be completely in the wrong here.

The players simply want and need to feel safe. The opt out should be available but not once the season begins. I was hearing the NFL wanted August 1 but I’d give the players until a week before the regular season starts. 

[SectionC3]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

 

LOL!  With a "definition" like "guys with kids [who] might not be out much," no wonder you believe that some players have "bubbled."  Even if we were to accept that weak definition, no player has "bubbled" the way the NFL has proposed.  But I'm willing to wait for you to provide proof that even just one player has.

 

And I figure it's the lawyer in you you that makes you want to claim that since I didn't specify that I meant players on the same team need to police each other, that I meant players separated by hundreds to thousands of miles can somehow police each other.  This isn't a court of law.  But yes, teammates can and should police each other.  An employer's stringent safety measures are only as good as the people following them and a teammate found violating the rules puts everyone's health, and career, in jeopardy.

 

Again, you said nobody was "bubbling."  And since nearly nobody (save for perhaps a few people with extreme medical issues) literally lives within a "bubble," I assume that you applied a figurative, not literal, definition of the term.  The NBA form of "bubbling" means social isolation and contact only with a defined group of like isolators.  So how do you know that no NFL player is doing that?  You don't.  You made it up.  

 

And you've also backed off the "NFL players are responsible for policing each other, even from across a continent" absurdity.  Which is good, since even the employer here recognized the asininity of that point.  

[MR8]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think it's at all what this means, for reasons that are explained (with references and stuff) in the covid-19 facts thread, and which (after a pit-stop at the facts thread) I'd be happy to see discussed in the OTW discussion thread.

 

You don't need a vaccine for herd immunity, but depending upon Ro you do need 60-70% of the population to have contracted the disease, and we are only apparently approaching that in specific, very hard hit communities within very hard hit cities like NYC.

 

Lol.... "facts"... there is SOOO much they don't know pretending you have 1 thread with all the info is pretty hilarious.  Also this supports what I was saying... you can add it to your  "facts thread" ... https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

On 7/19/2020 at 1:24 PM, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Yes, I definitely take seriously the comments of players who for the last several months have practiced in small groups amongst themselves in Florida and California. This is all posturing. They just dont want to play preseason. 

 

I feel like I called this one. 

[Gordio]

On 7/20/2020 at 1:06 PM, MR8 said:

 

The Concern about "Herd Immunity" is you need a vaccine for it.  Too many people are contracting Covid and having it be very mild... many don't even know they have/had it, and others don't have serious symptoms at all.  These cases are what has pushed the narrative that it's no big deal, however in Sweeden (a country that didn't shut down at all) they're finding despite an explosion in cases, there is an VERY small population who actually have the anti-bodies.  What that means is if you have Covid-19 and its very mild your body never really fights to create strong enough anti-bodies for them to be retained in your body's Rolodex of anti-bodies to fight it in the future.  

 

That's where the concern of re-infection comes from, if people don't have anti-bodies after a while for this thing, there potential for re-infection is very high.  That's hugely concerning.... If people can be reinfected, then there is no possible way to reach herd immunity unless everyone gets the virus and it's bad.  OR a vaccine could accomplish the same thing, but right now it looks like most are almost a year out... in the US there are 3 different vaccines being tested on humans right now, but clinical trials will take until December to know which ones are truly viable for mass production.... Then you need to factor in time for production by pharma companies... the estimate right now if everything goes well for one or more of the vaccines is April for the roll out to the the population for a vaccine, starting with those at the highest level of risk first... doctors, nurses, first responders, social workers, people with illnesses which make them more susceptible, followed by elderly.... then it would go to the general population. 

 

For everyone to be inoculated in America it will take MONTHS.... now factor in how many people are anti-vaccines and what that does to the idea of "herd immunity".  We could still be a full year to hear and a half away from even considering getting back to "Normal".

 

I think the hard part about football is there are SOOOO many more players and moving pieces.  Hopefully a "bubble" works, but with expanded rosters, you're talking about soooo freaking many people in the building, all it takes is 1 person breaking quarantine to reintroduce it to the rest.   

 

 

Just wondering where you are getting your info from.  I watch very little news these days, because everything is so depressing but I do watch an hour in the morning when I log onto work.  I had NBC on today & they had a doctor that said there are 4 vaccines already set to go final phase & they show tremendous promise, especially one that gives a double shot of antibodies including T Cells which is big, that is above my paygrade but basically it attacks infected cells in the body.  The doctor said because the government is willing to bet/spend billions on vaccines that haven't been approved/deemed effected, once one is found the doses are going to be coming in by the 100 millions.  One guy said we could have over billion doses produced by end of next year.  This year is shot but it does sound promising for next year.   My guess is your a guy that really looks at the glass as half empty don't you?

[MR8]

1 hour ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Just wondering where you are getting your info from.  I watch very little news these days, because everything is so depressing but I do watch an hour in the morning when I log onto work.  I had NBC on today & they had a doctor that said there are 4 vaccines already set to go final phase & they show tremendous promise, especially one that gives a double shot of antibodies including T Cells which is big, that is above my paygrade but basically it attacks infected cells in the body.  The doctor said because the government is willing to bet/spend billions on vaccines that haven't been approved/deemed effected, once one is found the doses are going to be coming in by the 100 millions.  One guy said we could have over billion doses produced by end of next year.  This year is shot but it does sound promising for next year.   My guess is your a guy that really looks at the glass as half empty don't you?

 

I posted about it earlier in a reply, my cousin is on the DHS Covid task force, so my information is based on what he covers in briefings he does DHS Secretary Chad Wolf, as well as the Joint Chiefs who also participate in the calls.  My cousin is essentially a coordinator, so he's on the calls to do minutes, summaries, and notes which are then sent out to people not on the calls.  So this information comes from those summaries, which are not classified, but again they're not on CNN Either, the're "internal documents for government entities" so its circulated from DHS to NOAA, to the FBI etc... but it's not a press release of info.  But again its not secret either. 

 

These are 3 that are US Government funded/coordinated vaccines... if there are others out there which are private funding or outside of the US then great, the more the better... but even stuff I've read from independent sources like Mayo Clinic, and numerous others say that we're a good year away from there being a proper vaccine fully in production and being disseminated. 

 

So take it for what it's worth man... if you prefer your other sources, then have at it, I just trust what my cousin has to say cause it jives with most of what I have found looking around.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I feel like I called this one. 

 

2 days ago you called that players wanted to play no preseason games?

 

Like Nostradamus or something!

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/nflpa-votes-to-play-no-preseason-games-ahead-of-2020-season

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

2 days ago you called that players wanted to play no preseason games?

 

Like Nostradamus or something!

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/nflpa-votes-to-play-no-preseason-games-ahead-of-2020-season

 

My point was a little more nuanced - It was that most of this posturing about testing is about leveraging to get out of preseason games, not the need for testing. 

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

My point was a little more nuanced - It was that most of this posturing about testing is about leveraging to get out of preseason games, not the need for testing. 

 

 

Well this was already included in the article weeks ago.  This "posturing" about safety issues, etc, was evident then.  Whether specifically about testing, or any aspect of going back to work, it's old news.

 

"The players I'm told are expressing a number of concerns on this call," Garafolo said during an earlier report on NFL NOW. "Not the least of which, is if there's so much concern about this virus right now, why are we returning to work, period? And I was told that one of the medical experts said that is something you're going to have to decide on an individual basis. Basically, are some players going to opt out based on risk factors and just how they're feeling about themselves and their family? So that is something to watch going forward."

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well this was already included in the article weeks ago.  This "posturing" about safety issues, etc, was evident then.  Whether specifically about testing, or any aspect of going back to work, it's old news.

 

"The players I'm told are expressing a number of concerns on this call," Garafolo said during an earlier report on NFL NOW. "Not the least of which, is if there's so much concern about this virus right now, why are we returning to work, period? And I was told that one of the medical experts said that is something you're going to have to decide on an individual basis. Basically, are some players going to opt out based on risk factors and just how they're feeling about themselves and their family? So that is something to watch going forward."

 

Cool? I guess I don't really see your point. I haven't really been following the play-by-play here, nor did I read this article. It just seemed obvious the players didn't give a s*** about testing, but really wanted preseason cancelled. I guess my bad for making the statement before reviewing PFT to confirm they have not already made the same point? 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Just wondering where you are getting your info from.  I watch very little news these days, because everything is so depressing but I do watch an hour in the morning when I log onto work.  I had NBC on today & they had a doctor that said there are 4 vaccines already set to go final phase & they show tremendous promise, especially one that gives a double shot of antibodies including T Cells which is big, that is above my paygrade but basically it attacks infected cells in the body.  The doctor said because the government is willing to bet/spend billions on vaccines that haven't been approved/deemed effected, once one is found the doses are going to be coming in by the 100 millions.  One guy said we could have over billion doses produced by end of next year.  This year is shot but it does sound promising for next year.   My guess is your a guy that really looks at the glass as half empty don't you?

 

I'd be interested in seeing/hearing this report because a lot of it sounds fishy, or maybe it's just getting lost in translation from a treadmill to a message board

 

The big news from the past couple of days is that Oxford has developed a vaccine that triggers an immune response (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839). It almost sounds like they were talking about this and lumping other possibilities in with it.

 

But as far as having multiple vaccines ready to go, and that they'd be able to produce a billion doses in the next year or so... Not sure I'm buying it yet.

[steven50]

I think at this point all the games will be without fan attendance anyway so they should just play all games this season in two or three states that have two or more stadiums Like California, New York(NJ), Florida and Texas or play all games in one state using college stadiums. Bubble the guys like the NBA is doing and play on Saturday and Sunday instead of just Sunday if you cant make the numbers work.

 

Contact with the locals can be minimized by testing anyone coming in or out. All travel by team plane only and facilities off limits to everyone except NFL tested people.

[Doc]

8 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Again, you said nobody was "bubbling."  And since nearly nobody (save for perhaps a few people with extreme medical issues) literally lives within a "bubble," I assume that you applied a figurative, not literal, definition of the term.  The NBA form of "bubbling" means social isolation and contact only with a defined group of like isolators.  So how do you know that no NFL player is doing that?  You don't.  You made it up.  

 

You should have ended right here, counselor. 

 

8 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

And you've also backed off the "NFL players are responsible for policing each other, even from across a continent" absurdity.  Which is good, since even the employer here recognized the asininity of that point.  

 

Backed off of something I never said?  Oh, OK.

 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

You should have ended right here, counselor. 

 

 

Backed off of something I never said?  Oh, OK.

 

And still nothing to support your bald assertion that not a single NFL player has lived in a virtual bubble since the pandemic began. 

20 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Sorry but most of what you posted are not symptoms.... fever maybe stomach flu nope.  PS I had it, it sucked, high fever, head aches, heart palpitations, abdominal pain, weakness... tested pos for antibodies... and yes I work in a hospital in southern NY where we saw up to 11 people die a day... still see people dying of it though more like 2-3 a week.  It causes heart attacks, PEs, and aneurysms. Treatments have gotten better and there is some trial stuff out there that is very promising. That being said... this is not a joke... it causes longterm lung scaring in younger asymptomatic people... 

one more reason athletes should demand universal daily testing.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by SectionC3

[Doc]

2 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

And still nothing to support your bald assertion that not a single NFL player has lived in a virtual bubble since the pandemic began.

 

So it's a "virtual bubble" now, is it?  What's next?  A "kinda, sorta bubble"? 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Doc

[SectionC3]

33 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So it's a "virtual bubble" now, is it?  What's next?  A "kinda, sorta bubble"? 

Would you have preferred a literal bubble? Seems like it would have been a good talking point.  Doc says we shouldn’t do daily testing because no NFL player literally lives in a bubble!  Makes perfect sense. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by SectionC3

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Would you have preferred a literal bubble? Seems like it would have been a good talking point.  Doc says we shouldn’t do daily testing because no NFL player literally lives in a bubble!  Makes perfect sense. 

 

Thank you. 

[Punching Bag]

This has already been addressed.  NFLPA will not allow rule changes to allow each player to play inside a plastic bubble.

[SectionC3]

15 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Thank you. 

You’re welcome.  Your premise, ie,  since no NFL a player literally lives in a bubble (an absurdity, to be sure, since bubbling is accomplished virtually, and in any event still unsupported by those pesky things called fact), NFL players do not need or deserved daily COVID testing, remains horribly flawed. Even the owners, who pay for this, acknowledge as much.  And on what planet does a doctor think it’s a good idea to allow guys from different cities who cannot live isolation during the season (in which they must travel and overnight to games) to breathe, sweat, share a ball, and touch each other without daily testing?  It’s just nuts.  It’s a stupid business practice, it’s a stupid medical practice, and it’s a stupid labor practice. 

[WEATHER DOT COM]

3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

You’re welcome.  Your premise, ie,  since no NFL a player literally lives in a bubble (an absurdity, to be sure, since bubbling is accomplished virtually, and in any event still unsupported by those pesky things called fact), NFL players do not need or deserved daily COVID testing, remains horribly flawed. Even the owners, who pay for this, acknowledge as much.  And on what planet does a doctor think it’s a good idea to allow guys from different cities who cannot live isolation during the season (in which they must travel and overnight to games) to breathe, sweat, share a ball, and touch each other without daily testing?  It’s just nuts.  It’s a stupid business practice, it’s a stupid medical practice, and it’s a stupid labor practice. 

 

Hydroxycholorquine infused water, dude

[Doc]

11 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

You’re welcome.  Your premise, ie,  since no NFL a player literally lives in a bubble (an absurdity, to be sure, since bubbling is accomplished virtually, and in any event still unsupported by those pesky things called fact), NFL players do not need or deserved daily COVID testing, remains horribly flawed. Even the owners, who pay for this, acknowledge as much.  And on what planet does a doctor think it’s a good idea to allow guys from different cities who cannot live isolation during the season (in which they must travel and overnight to games) to breathe, sweat, share a ball, and touch each other without daily testing?  It’s just nuts.  It’s a stupid business practice, it’s a stupid medical practice, and it’s a stupid labor practice. 

 

Fact?  You just admitted that no player lived/lives in a bubble.  So you shifted to the "virtual bubble," when even still no player "virtually bubbled" by getting tested every other day, surrounded by people in the bubble who do the same, and with stringent rules put in place by the league.  They were all winging it.  And just 59 got sick.  

 

Again if they would all live by the rules and police others on their team, daily testing isn't needed.  And they've agreed to get it get it only for the first 2 weeks.

 

11 hours ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

Hydroxycholorquine infused water, dude

 

Drink fish tank cleaner instead. 

[SectionC3]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Fact?  You just admitted that no player lived/lives in a bubble.  So you shifted to the "virtual bubble," when even still no player "virtually bubbled" by getting tested every other day, surrounded by people in the bubble who do the same, and with stringent rules put in place by the league.  They were all winging it.  And just 59 got sick.  

 

Again if they would all live by the rules and police others on their team, daily testing isn't needed.  And they've agreed to get it get it only for the first 2 weeks.

 

 

Drink fish tank cleaner instead. 

 

By your definition nobody, outside of a handful of highly immuno-suppressed people in a country of approximately 330 million, lives in a bubble.  And to apply the "literal" definition of a bubble, as you apparently prefer, is absurd.  Applying that logic, and by your definition, nobody would merit testing anywhere because they all (save for those handful of highly immuno-suppressed) choose not to live in a literal bubble. 

 

And, once again, you're still dead wrong on testing.  The points that you either can't grasp or stubbornly refuse to grasp are that players are not responsible for policing fellow employees and, even if such self-policing was required in the absence of employer protection, it's not possible for one team to "self-police" another, distant team with which it will have no interaction save for perhaps engaging in a contact sport on one or two days this fall.  The ideas that the Bills should self-police the 49ers before sharing sweat, blood, air, physical contact, and equipment (assuming the ball counts as equipment), and that such self-policing excuses ownership and management from taking the most stringent safety measures possible (namely, and obviously, daily COVID testing), are patently absurd.  

 

Finally, the "two-week" agreement is a couple of things.  It's a stark illustration of the fact that you're wrong here.  And it's also essentially a pause in the negotiations.  At the conclusion of that two-week period the testing question will be revisited.  Frankly I think the infection threshold that labor and management are talking about (5%) with respect to the continuation of testing is way too high considering that we don't know whether long-term effects of non-fatal COVID infection could end or inhibit a career (eg, through lung scarring or simply through lost opportunity in the 2020 season - check out the piece on Emily Regan in last Sunday's Buffalo News for insight on that issue).  We shall see if that figure holds and what the PA does on daily testing moving forward.  We also shall see if testing abates a bit during camp and ramps up again during the season when travel picks up.  

Edited July 23, 2020 by SectionC3

[Dr.Sack]

Wow depressing thread

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

If they even have a season I will be amazed. If they even get 3 games in I will be floored. 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

By your definition nobody, outside of a handful of highly immuno-suppressed people in a country of approximately 330 million, lives in a bubble.  And to apply the "literal" definition of a bubble, as you apparently prefer, is absurd.  Applying that logic, and by your definition, nobody would merit testing anywhere because they all (save for those handful of highly immuno-suppressed) choose not to live in a literal bubble. 

 

And, once again, you're still dead wrong on testing.  The points that you either can't grasp or stubbornly refuse to grasp are that players are not responsible for policing fellow employees and, even if such self-policing was required in the absence of employer protection, it's not possible for one team to "self-police" another, distant team with which it will have no interaction save for perhaps engaging in a contact sport on one or two days this fall.  The ideas that the Bills should self-police the 49ers before sharing sweat, blood, air, physical contact, and equipment (assuming the ball counts as equipment), and that such self-policing excuses ownership and management from taking the most stringent safety measures possible (namely, and obviously, daily COVID testing), are patently absurd.  

 

Finally, the "two-week" agreement is a couple of things.  It's a stark illustration of the fact that you're wrong here.  And it's also essentially a pause in the negotiations.  At the conclusion of that two-week period the testing question will be revisited.  Frankly I think the infection threshold that labor and management are talking about (5%) with respect to the continuation of testing is way too high considering that we don't know whether long-term effects of non-fatal COVID infection could end or inhibit a career (eg, through lung scarring or simply through lost opportunity in the 2020 season - check out the piece on Emily Regan in last Sunday's Buffalo News for insight on that issue).  We shall see if that figure holds and what the PA does on daily testing moving forward.  We also shall see if testing abates a bit during camp and ramps up again during the season when travel picks up.  

 

What's your problem now?  I went with your weak definition of a "(virtual) bubble" and still there is no player who was "bubbling" the way the NFL had proposed, prior to the 2-week daily testing compromise. 

 

Wrong.  The players are also responsible for policing themselves.  Because one rogue player can ruin it for them all and fellow players have a far better chance of witnessing it than an employer.  You realize it's not just the owners that will get screwed by a COVID outbreak, right?

 

And why just stop at daily testing?  Why not twice daily?  Three times?  Resources aren't infinite.

 

2 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

If they even have a season I will be amazed. If they even get 3 games in I will be floored. 

 

Sounds like a bet.

[Mike in Horseheads]

I just saw the "Bubble Boy" episode on Seinfeld last week, it wasn't a good out come for Bubble boy

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I just saw the "Bubble Boy" episode on Seinfeld last week, it wasn't a good out come for Bubble boy

 

Should have been in a virtual bubble.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Doc]

Oh, no...

[cd1]

31 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 WOW - This impasse sounds serious! ^^^

[Mr Info]

43 minutes ago, Figster said:

 

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/dogs-can-smell-covid-19-in-human-sweat/

 

Dogs are amazing animals and they get the job done. Just ask Shep on live PD. The idea is to have one or two canines from the Covid 19 scent patrol at the gates of every football game checking arm pits. 

 

also being evaluated at airports so this may be a possibility.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnn.com/travel/amp/airport-dogs-trial-coronavirus-wellness/index.html