One of the first in a long line of head scratching losses by the "Bickering Bills" of 1989.

[njbuff]

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

Three late Q4 turnovers by Kelly explains that.

[nucci]

I was there

[Mickey]

I had to see a grief counselor after this game. 

[njbuff]

The Bills between 1988-1993 had no business losing to the Pats during this timeframe.

 

But the Bills lost to them at NE in 1989 and 1991.

 

Even back in the heyday of the Bills they still lost to the Pats.

 

We truly have lived a miserable existence when it comes to the Bills playing the Pats.

 

But we are still here. ??

[Beast]

I was in Atlanta for one of those awful losses. Kelly’s first game back after his shoulder injury.

 

The game was won until Nate Odomes slipped.

[njbuff]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

I was in Atlanta for one of those awful losses. Kelly’s first game back after his shoulder injury.

 

The game was won until Nate Odomes slipped.

 

On Atlanta's game winning drive they allowed a deep pass which never happens in those situations, plus Atlanta made a 50 yard FG to win it.

 

Another game where the 1989 Bills had no business losing.

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Division games are generally tough.

I can remember a 7--0 contest, against the Pats late in the 4th qtr. in 1990, when the Pats were not a very good team.

The game was not a lock, but the Bills got the ball with around 2 minutes to play, and Kelly hands off to Thurman on the 20 yard line. Thomas runs 80 yards for the touchdown, to ice the game. (I watched the play unfold from the opposite end zone)

Bills win 14-0

 

I remember that game well.

 

The Bills won a lot of close weird games at home 1990.

[njbuff]

2 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Denver,and the Raiders, in back to back weeks, I believe...Two very exciting games in the final seven minutes of each!

The game against Philly, was another exciting game in '90. 24-0 Bills in the 1st. qtr.

 

The Jets game at home came down to the wire too.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:07 PM, BUFFALOBART said:

Denver,and the Raiders, in back to back weeks, I believe...Two very exciting games in the final seven minutes of each!

The game against Philly, was another exciting game in '90. 24-0 Bills in the 1st. qtr.

We should've blown the Eagles out, but a 95 yd. Cunningham pass to Fred Barnett @ the 50, silenced the crowd. Bills hung on 30-23

That was the game the Bills decided to run the no huddle K Gun for good as their main offense for an entire game—that first half was a straight up clinic in dismantling a defense, to the extent that their linemen were memorably begging Kelly to slow it down lol. The Bills did let up on the gas after halftime tho. 
 

On 7/8/2020 at 9:12 PM, BUFFALOBART said:

Bills never led for 59 minutes, 41 seconds.

Kelly to Jamie Mueller for the winning touchdown!!!

Funny. I can recall all of those 1990 games with clarity, but the 2001 season? It is as if it never happened.

Word—that’s how I feel about ‘91; lifetime highlight for me was the Steeler game that year where the Bills ran out of plays to run because the offense was on such a roll putting up 52 points, Kelly throwing 6 TD’s...4 to Beebe, ‘Steeler Killer’ 

Edited July 10, 2020 by NoHuddleKelly12

[KD in CA]

On 7/8/2020 at 11:53 AM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Three late Q4 turnovers by Kelly explains that.

 

Fumbles on consecutive plays in their own end in the first half didn't help.   For as great as that team was, they could never take care of the football.

[CA OC Bills Fan]

On 7/8/2020 at 5:33 PM, njbuff said:

The Bills between 1988-1993 had no business losing to the Pats during this timeframe.

 

But the Bills lost to them at NE in 1989 and 1991.

 

Even back in the heyday of the Bills they still lost to the Pats.

 

We truly have lived a miserable existence when it comes to the Bills playing the Pats.

 

But we are still here. ??

I was at the 1991 game (at least I think that's the one I was at). The only game I've seen in NE. Rainy day, not hard rain but enough to be miserable. Or, maybe it was just that the Bills lost a close game that they had no business losing that made it miserable.

[Big Turk]

As bad as the Pats were back then they used to pretty much give us fits 1 game a year where it was an ugly 9-6 or 13-10 type game. We usually still won but boy were those games ugly offensively at times.

[JaCrispy]

Norwood was the worst...every time I see old footage he is always missing kicks...definitely should have seen the writing on the wall before Super Bowl 25...

Edited July 10, 2020 by JaCrispy

[Whkfc]

9 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

That was the game the Bills decided to run the no huddle K Gun for good as their main offense for an entire game—that first half was a straight up clinic in dismantling a defense, to the extent that their linemen were memorably begging Kelly to slow it down lol. The Bills did let up on the gas after halftime tho. 
 

Word—that’s how I feel about ‘91; lifetime highlight for me was the Steeler game that year where the Bills ran out of plays to run because the offense was on such a roll putting up 52 points, Kelly throwing 6 TD’s...4 to Beebe, ‘Steeler Killer’ 

I was at that game. my first one as a matter of fact.

[Mark80]

Lots of good/great teams have head scratching losses.  Look at the NE vs Mia to end the year last year.  And that was for playoff positioning for NE, it's not like they didn't care about that game.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Mark80

[Greybeard]

     The Bills have always had the ability to play down to the level of their opponent. 

[BillsPride12]

2 hours ago, Mark80 said:

Lots of good/great teams have head scratching losses.  Look at the NE vs Mia to end the year last year.  And that was for playoff positioning for NE, it's not like they didn't care about that game.

New England lost a lot of head scratching games to bad Miami teams during their extended dynasty years.  I always thought that was an interesting outlier.

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, BillsPride12 said:

New England lost a lot of head scratching games to bad Miami teams during their extended dynasty years.  I always thought that was an interesting outlier.

 

I think Brady has a career record of around .500 in Miami. For some reason playing at Miami was the Pats personal house of horrors.

[Mark Vader]

On 7/8/2020 at 6:00 PM, Beast said:

I was in Atlanta for one of those awful losses. Kelly’s first game back after his shoulder injury.

 

The game was won until Nate Odomes slipped.

Was that the game where Deion Sanders tracked down Don Beebe?

[P Riv]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:33 PM, njbuff said:

The Bills between 1988-1993 had no business losing to the Pats during this timeframe.

 

But the Bills lost to them at NE in 1989 and 1991.

 

Even back in the heyday of the Bills they still lost to the Pats.

 

We truly have lived a miserable existence when it comes to the Bills playing the Pats.

 

But we are still here. ??

 

I would agree to 1989-1993, not 1988 though.  The Pats were tough that year, especially with Flutie at QB.  If I recall,they had the number 5 defense, led the league in run %, but had a horrible kicker.  Just looked it up, Teddy Garcia missed an xp and 3 FGs in the game at home.  We beat them in 2 games by a combined 5 points.  They were in the playoff picture until the final week of the season.  So, we only dominated them for 5 seasons really.  Seems like it was longer, but it really wasn't.  

Edited July 10, 2020 by P Riv

[Beast]

39 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Was that the game where Deion Sanders tracked down Don Beebe?

 

Yep. Kickoff return.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Beast

[IDBillzFan]

3 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

I think Brady has a career record of around .500 in Miami. For some reason playing at Miami was the Pats personal house of horrors.

 

I seem to recall this being one of the main reasons the Jets hired Gase; he had the formula to beat NE*.

[Greg S]

11 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

I seem to recall this being one of the main reasons the Jets hired Gase; he had the formula to beat NE*.

 

I hope Gase is the Jets HC for a long time. He is terrible. I was at the game where NE made Darnold see "ghosts". That game was brutal from a Jets perspective. If Gase doesn't improve this year I expect the pitchforks and knives to come out from the fanbase and NYC media calling for his head.

[njbuff]

4 hours ago, P Riv said:

 

I would agree to 1989-1993, not 1988 though.  The Pats were tough that year, especially with Flutie at QB.  If I recall,they had the number 5 defense, led the league in run %, but had a horrible kicker.  Just looked it up, Teddy Garcia missed an xp and 3 FGs in the game at home.  We beat them in 2 games by a combined 5 points.  They were in the playoff picture until the final week of the season.  So, we only dominated them for 5 seasons really.  Seems like it was longer, but it really wasn't.  

 

The Bills played some close games in 1988 because they didn't discover their explosive offense by any means.

 

Marv Levy was conservative to a fault in 1988 and it cost them the AFC Championship eventually that year.

 

But make no mistake, even though they were close games, the talent discrepancy between the Bills and the Pats was mighty large.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 hours ago, Whkfc said:

I was at that game. my first one as a matter of fact.

What a game to make your first! Mine by contrast was the Bills getting shut out at 3 Rivers on an icy cold 1993 Monday night 0-23 . 

7 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

I remember that game well! 

Interestingly, the next two times that that we played the Steelers, Beebe was knocked out of the game. Coincidence? I think not...

Yup, spot on bro. See above. 1993 version in Pittsburgh on Monday Night. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by NoHuddleKelly12

[holla83]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:33 PM, njbuff said:

The Bills between 1988-1993 had no business losing to the Pats during this timeframe.

 

But the Bills lost to them at NE in 1989 and 1991.

 

Even back in the heyday of the Bills they still lost to the Pats.

 

We truly have lived a miserable existence when it comes to the Bills playing the Pats.

 

But we are still here. ??

The home game against the Patriots in 91 was my first game. It was a close, low scoring game. It took a late Darryl Talley INT to seal the win for the Bills. Division games can be tough as someone else said

Edited July 10, 2020 by holla83

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

I have disliked the Steeler's ever since.  A dirty team, IMO...

Kelly's broken collar bone in the playoff(Courtesy of Greg Lloyd) game deserves mention, as well.

(He threw a TD with his first pass, after getting the collar bone taped up)

Our boy JK played the position with the mentality of a linebacker himself, no doubt--he dished it out almost as much as he got it, remember the infamous Falcons game where he broke the ankle of the DB who picked him off? The Steelers D's of the 90's were by and large just as vicious as their 70's predecessors--and yes, despite growing up in Western PA, I couldn't stand them (ironically JK was a huge Steelers fan growing up of course). What they got away with in terms of mauling opposing QB's under Noll and Cowher would leave the refs of today red-faced with the amount of game misconduct penalties they'd have to shout out on the PA system...

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Kelly was truly tough as nails.

We were fortunate to be firsthand witnesses to the Golden age of the Buffalo Bills.

Let's hope that history is about to repeat itself, and this time, we snag a championship, or two in the process. ?

He also almost destroyed the SB run by causing the Bickerin’ Bills.  

[Mark Vader]

On 7/10/2020 at 5:57 AM, Mark80 said:

Lots of good/great teams have head scratching losses.  Look at the NE vs Mia to end the year last year.  And that was for playoff positioning for NE, it's not like they didn't care about that game.

 

On 7/10/2020 at 8:28 AM, BillsPride12 said:

New England lost a lot of head scratching games to bad Miami teams during their extended dynasty years.  I always thought that was an interesting outlier.

 

On 7/10/2020 at 8:30 AM, Greg S said:

 

I think Brady has a career record of around .500 in Miami. For some reason playing at Miami was the Pats personal house of horrors.

Same thing happened with Joe Montana and the 80's 49'ers teams whenever they played the Rams.

 

Even when the Rams were horrible, they would give the 49'ers fits.

 

Didn't the Browns also give the 70's Steelers teams a lot of tough games too?

 

There's just something about certain teams in divisional games.

[BillsPride12]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

 

 

Same thing happened with Joe Montana and the 80's 49'ers teams whenever they played the Rams.

 

Even when the Rams were horrible, they would give the 49'ers fits.

 

Didn't the Browns also give the 70's Steelers teams a lot of tough games too?

 

There's just something about certain teams in divisional games.

The thing I found the most confusing/interesting about the Patriots struggling with the Dolphins is it spanned many years and they were completely different teams over time.  I could see if you were talking one era where one team that wasn't as talented but could give their division rival a run for their money I don't think that is too hard to believe but the Brady Patriots era spanned 2 or 3 different era's with completely different teams for both sides as time went on.

[Clemfield2622]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:04 PM, BUFFALOBART said:

Division games are generally tough.

I can remember a 7--0 contest, against the Pats late in the 4th qtr. in 1990, when the Pats were not a very good team.

The game was not a lock, but the Bills got the ball with around 2 minutes to play, and Kelly hands off to Thurman on the 20 yard line. Thomas runs 80 yards for the touchdown, to ice the game. (I watched the play unfold from the opposite end zone)

Bills win 14-0

That was the first game I ever attended

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He also almost destroyed the SB run by causing the Bickerin’ Bills.  

 

 

 Biscuit, all in good fun ^^^^.

 

And I’d say JK more than made up for any ‘bickering’ in ‘89 in the years that followed on the field as well as part of the loyal Bills alumni after he hung up his cleats for good. 

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, BillsPride12 said:

The thing I found the most confusing/interesting about the Patriots struggling with the Dolphins is it spanned many years and they were completely different teams over time.  I could see if you were talking one era where one team that wasn't as talented but could give their division rival a run for their money I don't think that is too hard to believe but the Brady Patriots era spanned 2 or 3 different era's with completely different teams for both sides as time went on.

I get what you mean.

 

Still, it was just one of those things that can't be explained.

[Beast]

21 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He also almost destroyed the SB run by causing the Bickerin’ Bills.  

It was a hell of a lot more than Kelly. Coaches were fist fighting during team meetings. It also leaked into 1990. Who can forget Bruce Smith’s antics in Miami?

Edited July 12, 2020 by Beast

[P Riv]

On 7/10/2020 at 4:54 PM, njbuff said:

 

But make no mistake, even though they were close games, the talent discrepancy between the Bills and the Pats was mighty large.

 

At QB, yes and large is an understatement.  Looking at the two rosters, the isn't a "large" gap between the two.  We had the number 2 defense, they had number 5 in spite of horrible production from their passing offense putting them on the field more and their running game was better than ours that year.  They were flawed, but solid as shown by their record.  Two teams going in different directions though.  

[Success]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:33 PM, njbuff said:

The Bills between 1988-1993 had no business losing to the Pats during this timeframe.

 

But the Bills lost to them at NE in 1989 and 1991.

 

Even back in the heyday of the Bills they still lost to the Pats.

 

We truly have lived a miserable existence when it comes to the Bills playing the Pats.

 

But we are still here. ??

Kind of a bummer. I feel like no matter how much we dominate in the years ahead (hopefully), it will never be enough. We could blow them out every game for 2 decades and I don't think it would begin to even things out.  It would be a start, though.

 

The really bothersome thing IS that we didn't take care of business when we were good & they were bad. Should have been more one-sided.

 

[Bills fan since 87]

First Bills game I ever attended.  Was still living in the ADKs then and had family in the Boston area.  I would have been 12 or 13.  Father took the the family out to visit our relatives. for a long weekend  On Sunday my Dad, uncle and I drove up to see the game.  I remember just being in awe as I walked up to my first NFL stadium.  That and I remember there being so many Bills fans there.  When we went up 24-7 I had the slightest pang of pity for the Patriot father and his young son sitting in front of us.  And then it all fell apart.  I was so upset I hardly talked the whole way back to Boston or whatever suburb my relatives lived in then.

 

 

[njbuff]

24 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Bruce's deep thigh bruise iced the game for Cincy, IMO...

 

Derrick Burroughs' Mike Tyson moment didn't help.

[P Riv]

18 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Bruce's deep thigh bruise iced the game for Cincy, IMO...

 

If you look at the stats, the Bungals dominated: https://www.footballdb.com/games/boxscore.html?gid=1989010801     

Their defense was underrated, they held the Montana led 49er's to 13 points through 95% of the SB.  In our case they were playing at home and we weren't the 1988 49ers.  If the game was at Rich Stad, different story.