Politics in Football, Sports in General

[wppete]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/ct-colin-kaepernick-timeline-liststory-20200607-b5gigmlp7jf53itj7d6xxdvgo4-list.html

 

Check these stats and charts. I suspect another huge dip in 2020. 

[Orlando Tim]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. It is "I don't agree with politics in sport if it is not my politics." 

 

The military are delivery agents of foreign policy. To think that is not political is madness. It isn't about whether you think the military is a good thing or not. The military is overtly political.

Gunner should RGB be recognized if he is at a Bills game? Absolutely despite I feeling her beliefs are different than mine. The military is in the same boat for me. Your stupid comment about my only accepting those that agree with me is most likely your projecting your beliefs on me. There are things in the govt realm that are not political to me, obviously you disagree. One last question- was out military good under Obama but bad under Trump? 

[Dr. K]

9 minutes ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

The biggest point of this came from kneeling a few years ago. I think it is great the players have a cause they feel so much about. Their choice of kneeling gametime alienated many people. After their work hours have at it, but not when the fans that pay to see the game and relax (get away from it all) are there. If people want to enjoy the game but gameday the NFL and players are pushing it, where is the enjoyment for the fans?

So it's okay to wave the flag at every opportunity, but if somebody silently kneels they have desecrated the game. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Gunner should RGB be recognized if he is at a Bills game? Absolutely despite I feeling her beliefs are different than mine. The military is in the same boat for me. Your stupid comment about my only accepting those that agree with me is most likely your projecting your beliefs on me. There are things in the govt realm that are not political to me, obviously you disagree. One last question- was out military good under Obama but bad under Trump? 

 

It isn't about whether the military is good or bad. Nor is it about Obama and Trump or Republican vs Democrat or left vs right. There is nothing in the Government realm that isn't political. Nothing. Every choice a Government makes is a political choice. I know. I do Government. 

 

And I am not American and I don't care particularly either way I am entirely objective on this. But the military is an organ of the state. It is political. This isn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. 

 

You are seeing "political" as Democrat v Republican. That isn't the right prism to look at it. 

 

To try and answer your question.... NFL salute to service was a political statement when Obama was President just as much as it is now. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by GunnerBill

[brooklynbill]

Once Laura Ingraham open her mouth to say "shut up and dribble", the separation of sport and state died instantly.

Edited June 9, 2020 by brooklynbill

[Hermes]

18 minutes ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

The biggest point of this came from kneeling a few years ago. I think it is great the players have a cause they feel so much about. Their choice of kneeling gametime alienated many people. After their work hours have at it, but not when the fans that pay to see the game and relax (get away from it all) are there. If people want to enjoy the game but gameday the NFL and players are pushing it, where is the enjoyment for the fans?

So what you're saying is that, essentially a minute and a half of someone expressing an opinion, that you don't like, completely ruins a 3+ hour (180+ minute) event for you!?

 

YOU and people like you are the problem

[Orlando Tim]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It isn't about whether the military is good or bad. Nor is it about Obama and Trump or Republican vs Democrat or left vs right. There is nothing in the Government realm that isn't political. Nothing. Every choice a Government makes is a political choice. I know. I do Government. 

 

And I am not American and I don't care particularly either way I am entirely objective on this. But the military is an organ of the state. It is political. This isn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. 

 

You are seeing "political" as Democrat v Republican. That isn't the right prism to look at it. 

 

To try and answer your question.... NFL salute to service was a political statement when Obama was President just as much as it is now. 

We are arguing different definitions- I mean the right vs left version and you mean simply the govt as a whole. By your standard I agree with you.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Actually it is against rules for players to waive flags, wear shoes with pigs on them, use a cell phone, do act on Cowboys star, take off jersey to show T-shirt with message, bring in prop rifle to support gun rights and many other things where players need to follow rules.  Why does this need an exception?

 

I agree the NFL is inconsistent in its approach. It makes exceptions from its rules. It has decided now that this can be an exception I suspect because it feared a full scale revolt from its talent (ie. the players). The NFL only let overt politicism in when it thinks it is in its business interests to do so. Whether that be salute to service or kneeling during the anthem.

[1ManRaid]

3 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said:

True. Generally when someone feels that politics should be kept out of things it's because they do not agree with the political views. Sports is part of daily life as are politics, the two are bound to blend (and should do) occasionally

I supported Kaepernick's message about police violence, just not his choice to do it ON THE JOB.  If you worked in a call center and campaigned for this or preached for that to every customer calling in to pay their bill, you would be fired real quick.  Like when that woman refused to issue marriage licenses because of her personal objections to equality laws.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

We are arguing different definitions- I mean the right vs left version and you mean simply the govt as a whole. By your standard I agree with you.

 

I compare the military in the US to the NHS in the UK. It is so widely supported and to an extent glamourised by the public that it is almost perceived as apolitical and above politics. 

 

You can't win an election in the UK promising to cut the NHS anymore than you could win one in the USA promising to cut military funding. So the NHS just isn't a left v right issue in the UK. They argue about reforms etc but the principle is almost universally just accepted. But to an American the idea of socialised health care being considered apolitical would be madness, right? 

 

But the military and a socialised health care system are both overtly political organs of the state. When other organisations be it the NFL or the 2012 Olympics whoever else ride in with an organ of the state that carries that sort of support it does so very consciously for a commercial reason. Politics, sport, money and power. 4 sides of the same square. 

 

8 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

I supported Kaepernick's message about police violence, just not his choice to do it ON THE JOB.  If you worked in a call center and campaigned for this or preached for that to every customer calling in to pay their bill, you would be fired real quick.  Like when that woman refused to issue marriage licenses because of her personal objections to equality laws.

 

I mean Kap was basically out of a job as soon as it was practical wasn't he? Eric Reid spent months without a team too. These guys did lose their jobs and they knew that was a risk that they ran.

Edited June 9, 2020 by GunnerBill

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

If they can’t take a knee 
 

then take God out of football.  
 

no more prayers and signs of the cross.  
 

 

(awaits chairs being thrown)

[Stenbar]

I would rather not have the National Anthem sung or played at any sporting event. Play it when it means something, July 4th, Memorial day etc. It is overused and it devalues the significance and sacrifice Americans have made for it. It should not be symbol to protest it should be an honor to hear and salute. If you woukd like to protest, hold a sign and march with your fellow protesters.  

[Brueggs]

Personally, watching a football game is nice 3 hour escape from normal life.  I understand the National Anthem inserts a political element into the event.  I am all for the right to protest, but I draw the line at doing it on company time.  To me, it is like going out for dinner while my waiter protests animal cruelty, and all I wanted was my steak dinner.  Its simply not the time.  People need to find their own platforms and not try to hijack what was meant for something else.  NFL players in particular, have the ways and means to do just that.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Brueggs said:

Personally, watching a football game is nice 3 hour escape from normal life.  I understand the National Anthem inserts a political element into the event.  I am all for the right to protest, but I draw the line at doing it on company time.  To me, it is like going out for dinner while my waiter protests animal cruelty, and all I wanted was my steak dinner.  Its simply not the time.  People need to find their own platforms and not try to hijack what was meant for something else.  NFL players in particular, have the ways and means to do just that.  

 

So you are fine with the anthems and the fly pasts but not with a protest you disagree with? 

[Ralonzo]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Shut up and dribble!

 

The wisdom of Michael Jordan :

 

Quote

Republicans buy shoes, too.

 

 

[Hermes]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So you are fine with the anthems and the fly pasts but not with a protest you disagree with?

Exactly.  People like to think these things are mutually exclusive so they can have one without the other.

 

It baffles me how many people equate their jobs/professions with that of an NFL player.  They train tirelessly for their entire lives to reach 'the pinnacle' of their profession yet (you) as a middle class (insert profession here) believe that the conduct of you both  should be held to the same standard

[Brueggs]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So you are fine with the anthems and the fly pasts but not with a protest you disagree with? 

Where did I say I disagree with the protest?  I disagree with the timing.  Its not the same...

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Brueggs said:

Where did I say I disagree with the protest?  I disagree with the timing.  Its not the same...

 

 

Fair. So you are fine with the timing of salute to service?

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Brueggs said:

Where did I say I disagree with the protest?  I disagree with the timing.  Its not the same...

 

It is not your protest and the protest is not arranged around your comfort or your hard day. 

[Brueggs]

2 minutes ago, Hermes said:

Exactly.  People like to think these things are mutually exclusive so they can have one without the other.

 

It baffles me how many people equate their jobs/professions with that of an NFL player.  They train tirelessly for their entire lives to reach 'the pinnacle' of their profession yet (you) as a middle class (insert profession here) believe that the conduct of you both  should be held to the same standard

What are you saying?  You are elevating NFL players to a higher standard than the middle class, or "regular people" in general?  To be "the pinnacle" of any profession requires exceptional effort, not just for people that play a game for a living.  Its also a privilege.  So I guess what you saying, is if your out to eat and your waiter wants to promote Trump, your'e good with that?

[Brueggs]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Fair. So you are fine with the timing of salute to service?

That is a pre arranged agreement between two parties.  If the NFL, and team owners agreed to protesting, that would also be fine.  The problem for the NFL and the owners is trying to gauge the financial ramifications this might have.  Regardless of the cause, when you hijack a platform meant for something else, there are consequences that could be damaging to the very people that provide your employment.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Brueggs said:

That is a pre arranged agreement between two parties.  If the NFL, and team owners agreed to protesting, that would also be fine.  The problem for the NFL and the owners is trying to gauge the financial ramifications this might have.  Regardless of the cause, when you hijack a platform meant for something else, there are consequences that could be damaging to the very people that provide your employment.  

 

The NFL have now basically overturned their prior opposition to the kneeling. The NFL doesn't have a product without the players. It gets that. Some of its most prominent owners even got it the first time around with the kneeling. The NFL lets politics in when it suits it. Salute to service suits it. It has now seemingly taken the view that black lives matter suits it too. Maybe the sums change as a result and it suits the NFL no longer. But both are overtly politics in sport.

[Brueggs]

16 minutes ago, SDS said:

It is not your protest and the protest is not arranged around your comfort or your hard day. 

Did I imply that it was?  Or wasn't?  Your saying that everyone can do what they want, whenever they want regardless of consequences?  Great idea..

[Brueggs]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The NFL have now basically overturned their prior opposition to the kneeling. The NFL doesn't have a product without the players. It gets that. Some of its most prominent owners even got it the first time around with the kneeling. The NFL lets politics in when it suits it. Salute to service suits it. It has now seemingly taken the view that black lives matter suits it too. Maybe the sums change as a result and it suits the NFL no longer. But both are overtly politics in sport.

You can be sure the NFL will follow the money.

[Rob's House]

Personally, I think athletes have as much right to talk about politics as anyone else. BUT, I'd prefer they didn't do it on game day.

 

Do all the interviews you want, give speeches, march in the streets, and Tweet until your heart's content, but it doesn't need to come into the game anymore than the guy working the counter at McDonald's needs to lecture me on the tenets of national socialism while I'm waiting for a Big Mac.

 

We seem to agree here at TBD that sports and politics don't mix well. I don't see why it should be any different on the field.

 

I am, however, willing to make an exception when the politics being espoused match my own.

[Hermes]

17 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

What are you saying?  You are elevating NFL players to a higher standard than the middle class, or "regular people" in general?  To be "the pinnacle" of any profession requires exceptional effort, not just for people that play a game for a living.  Its also a privilege.  So I guess what you saying, is if your out to eat and your waiter wants to promote Trump, your'e good with that?

Yes if my waiter or waitress whether lgbtq decides to promote anyone they wish it would not affect the 'quality' of the meal I ordered.

 

Also is the waiter's or waitress', in question, performances being scrutinized by millions of people worldwide.. 

 

Realistically yes someone who is world renowned should be held to a different standard than someone who is only truly known by his or her close family and/or friends

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Rob's House said:

Personally, I think athletes have as much right to talk about politics as anyone else. BUT, I'd prefer they didn't do it on game day.

 

Do all the interviews you want, give speeches, march in the streets, and Tweet until your heart's content, but it doesn't need to come into the game anymore than the guy working the counter at McDonald's needs to lecture me on the tenets of national socialism while I'm waiting for a Big Mac.

 

We seem to agree here at TBD that sports and politics don't mix well. I don't see why it should be any different on the field.

 

I am, however, willing to make an exception when the politics being espoused match my own.

 

At least this is honest. 

4 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

You can be sure the NFL will follow the money.

 

Yep. That is what it always does. But in this case the sum is complicated by the fact that it doesn't know how much a full scale revolt by its talent would cost. 

[Rob's House]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The NFL have now basically overturned their prior opposition to the kneeling. The NFL doesn't have a product without the players. It gets that. Some of its most prominent owners even got it the first time around with the kneeling. The NFL lets politics in when it suits it. Salute to service suits it. It has now seemingly taken the view that black lives matter suits it too. Maybe the sums change as a result and it suits the NFL no longer. But both are overtly politics in sport.

 

I think it has far less to do with appeasing the players as it does with adapting to changing public sentiments. The players can piss and moan, but as long as the check clears they're suiting up.

[xsoldier54]

Looking at the responses from this, I see pretty much what I expected.  Not going to comment either way.  Nobody is going to change anyone's mind regardless.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Rob's House said:

 

I think it has far less to do with appeasing the players as it does with adapting to changing public sentiments. The players can piss and moan, but as long as the check clears they're suiting up.

 

Certainly possible but I do think there is a sensitivity to what its talent thinks here. 

[Cripple Creek]

5 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral.

 

Is being socially responsible something you define as a political act?

[ProcessAccepted]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

I supported Kaepernick's message about police violence, just not his choice to do it ON THE JOB.  If you worked in a call center and campaigned for this or preached for that to every customer calling in to pay their bill, you would be fired real quick.  Like when that woman refused to issue marriage licenses because of her personal objections to equality laws.

Apples and oranges. Kaepernick is paid to be a QB and did that role as well as he could. He didn't go around the stands to tell everyone in attendance instead of throwing the ball. A closer analogy would be kneeling when clocking in to the call center but handling every call just like the other customer support representative. The woman you referenced refused to do her job and follow the law. 

 

If kneeling is such a disrespectful action why do people do that when they propose?

[HOUSE]

 

Politics AND Sports ?

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by HOUSE

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

 

Yes thats for sure, bad TV ratings and merchandise sales will do the same. Out of curiosity I went on Twitter and searched #BoycottNFL and others similar. A lot of talk. Not going to be good for the NFL.

Every sport in the nation is losing a ton of money this year. TV ratings will actually be way up since fans will not be allowed entry. The virus was the first blow and now racism issues and the guarantee that many players will kneel will also cause some backlash. Kaep was justified 4 years ago and you'll see many more players both black and white join the cause. It was never about the flag. It was about creating a  mechanism to draw attention to police brutality. The NFL has egg on their face and if they want to completely wipe it off then Kaep better be in a roster. I'd take him anyday over the noodle arms of Barkley or Fromm.

[wppete]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Every sport in the nation is losing a ton of money this year. TV ratings will actually be way up since fans will not be allowed entry. The virus was the first blow and now racism issues and the guarantee that many players will kneel will also cause some backlash. Kaep was justified 4 years ago and you'll see many more players both black and white join the cause. It was never about the flag. It was about creating a  mechanism to draw attention to police brutality. The NFL has egg on their face and if they want to completely wipe it off then Kaep better be in a roster. I'd take him anyday over the noodle arms of Barkley or Fromm.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/ct-colin-kaepernick-timeline-liststory-20200607-b5gigmlp7jf53itj7d6xxdvgo4-list.html

 

Check these stats and charts. I suspect another huge dip in 2020. let’s see how the public reacts in 2020.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

6 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral.

 

I actually think most of the pro athletes feel the same way. They just want to play. We just want to watch. 

[Adam727]

I try to keep politics and sports separate (including on here) but since this thread specifically asks... I wish President Trump would stop trying to politicize the NFL for his own gain.  Football is where I go for 3 hours to get away from that kind of stuff.  I've never considered athletes kneeling to be all that political.  If they want to use their celebrity to bring awareness to an issue that's important to them it doesn't bother me any and they have my full support.  I've never liked the way the President and his allies in the right wing media have tried to co-opt what I view as a harmless peaceful statement into some sort of political nonsense about disrespecting the flag.  I've never fully understood why it's so easy for some to confuse the two when that's clearly not what anyone is trying to do.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Adam727

[Dr. Who]

I like the old Neanderthal days when sports was relatively free of overt political agendas. Something like the Olympics is a different matter where national identification is part of the pageantry and drama. Fine with me if other folks embrace the opposite, but when networks like ESPN become dominated by something other than actual sporting events, I tend to tune out.

[Brueggs]

52 minutes ago, Hermes said:

Yes if my waiter or waitress whether lgbtq decides to promote anyone they wish it would not affect the 'quality' of the meal I ordered.

 

Also is the waiter's or waitress', in question, performances being scrutinized by millions of people worldwide.. 

 

Realistically yes someone who is world renowned should be held to a different standard than someone who is only truly known by his or her close family and/or friends

 

You realize that NFL players are just people, right?  You are missing the point completely.  Maybe someone doing their political grandstanding on their employers platform might not bother you as an individual, but if it causes a problem for the business, its not fair to the employer.  There is a time and a place for everything, especially when you are representing a business for compensation.

[Putin]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The NFL itself politicises the game with all of its salute to service events etc. It is rich of them to then complain when the players politicise it for the causes they support. 

 

As for what do I want as a fan.... I believe that once something is a multi million dollar industry (let alone a multi billion dollar industry) then it is inevitably political in some sense. Politics, sport, money and power. Four sides of the same square. 

I had no idea that saluting our military had anything to do with politics , is it ok to thank them for their service or that might offend someone?