Jake Fromm: Controversial comments

[brooklynbill]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You're a Brave Man.  You couldn't pay me to voluntarily place a body part or clothing other than shoesoles in contact with a stadium floor surface

My humanity mean more to me any friggin stadium surface. People are out there risking corona because they are things worth dying for.

Edited June 9, 2020 by brooklynbill

[SectionC3]

12 hours ago, westside2 said:

What Fromm and Brees said is mild to what Biden has said numerous times. Why is Biden given a pass? 

I don't Condon racism, but I don't believe what Brees said was racist. Fromm, that's another story. He's young and I hope he learns from it. 

Do Black Lives Matter? 

6 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Yeah, but have they ever made an insensitive joke that someone could easily misinterpret as racist? Because even if that’s not what Fromm meant, that’s the danger of declaring him an unabashed racist. 

I don’t know if he’s a racist, and Lorax has a reasonable approach.  But man, what Fromm said is awful.  He’s talking about limiting certain dangerous weaponry to whites people.  I didn’t get “joke” from that context, and neither did the recipient.   At best it’s a bad look that will be dealt with rather uncomfortably on the field in August. 

[muppy]

48 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you actually read those 50 pages, you would see that predominantly, they consist of people with rather different views trying pretty hard to talk to each other and stay civil.

 

In that context, your .gif is about as useful as t*ts on a boar hog

SNAP :-))))) love it... Concur

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You're a Brave Man.  You couldn't pay me to voluntarily place a body part or clothing other than shoesoles in contact with a stadium floor surface

I agree, I have seen so many people with funnels and tubing down their leg. They just drink 10 beer and never use the bathroom. That's not even counting all the vomit.

[Westside]

30 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Do Black Lives Matter? 

I don’t know if he’s a racist, and Lorax has a reasonable approach.  But man, what Fromm said is awful.  He’s talking about limiting certain dangerous weaponry to whites people.  I didn’t get “joke” from that context, and neither did the recipient.   At best it’s a bad look that will be dealt with rather uncomfortably on the field in August. 

Good lord man! Don't overreact. Of course black lives matter. All lives matter.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, brooklynbill said:

Yes I too would love to see the double blind randomized study that you conducted in the black community. You studied 24 million blacks but left me, my family and most of friends out. I feel slighted.

 

Just to be clear, you weren't talking to me as "you" above were you?  I believe it was @Rob's House who said a survey showed 50% of blacks didn't feel racism had a major effect on their lives.  I would love to see that survey.

 

It doesn't have to be double blind or randomized; I just want to see something showing the study, design and the data.  Because anyone can come up and say anything, doesn't make it true.

[Rob's House]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:49 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I'd appreciate your time to find the survey you stated about 50% blacks not finding racism a major block.  I can not.

 

Just popped in to fulfill your request.

 

This is a different survey with a little bit different wording and results (if I have time to dig the other one up I'll share) but it still supports the conclusion that a significant portion of the black community doesn't see racism as their greatest obstacle.

 

That is all. Back to PPP.

 

 

Among white liberals, according to Pew survey data collected in 2017, 79.2 percent agreed that “racial discrimination is the main reason why many black people can’t get ahead these days.” 18.8 percent agreed that “blacks who can’t get ahead in this country are mostly responsible for their own condition,” a 60.4 point difference, according to a detailed analysis of the Pew data provided the Times by Zach Goldberg, a doctoral candidate in political science at Georgia State University.

 

Among blacks, 59.9 percent identified discrimination as the main deterrent to upward mobility for African-Americans, and 32.0 percent said blacks were responsible for their condition — in other words, blacks are more conservative than white liberals on this issue.”

 

https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/19/white-liberals-african-americans-discriminated/

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, brooklynbill said:

My humanity mean more to me any friggin stadium surface. People are out there risking corona because they are things worth dying for.

 

Oh my Ears and Whiskers!  I hope you're not judging either one's humanity, or one's support for badly needed anti-racism changes, by willingness to kneel in a stadium?

 

Not in any way to disparage the gesture, it's fine, but perhaps it is not the ultimate yardstick of meaningful efforts or committment to effect change?

[PIZ]

He was 20 years old when he had a private text with someone? I think a lot of people forget what it’s like to be 20, and forget some of the stupid things we’ve said or done 1 year removed from being a teenager. Also, why did his “friend” wait so long to bring this out in public? Obviously he shouldn’t have said it, but I hope the team supports him if he truly makes amends and is truly sorry that he did it. I hope that Lorax takes him under his wing and guides him through this, and helps his teammates that are having a hard time accepting him. I will support the team with whatever decision they make. 

[TwistofFate]

8 hours ago, Happy said:

 

Wouldn't that be cruel and unusual punishment?  You can barely understand what he's trying to say.

https://youtu.be/hLVmw81qDSA

[JoeF]

Coach is leaning on the culture he built and the individuals who make-up the "team" including players, coaches, front office, Lorax, Marlon Kerner, Len Vanden Bos and others to create an environment where Jake can personally develop.  This whole "be your best self" thing in Buffalo. 

 

As a fan, we can either accept that the Bills have moved forward with Fromm as part of the team or not.  For the vast majority that's a pretty easy decision. For a few, it may not be.  Respecting how each other respond to this is part of life and part of why there is a 52 page thread on this.  This thread reflects how TBD became and continues to be an awesome place. 

[JoPoy88]

Personally i couldn’t care less if they cut him yesterday. Barkley can do the job and hold an ipad. Let young man Fromm grind it out in the XFL (if they come back.) 

[Putin]

20 hours ago, brooklynbill said:

Cant wait to see my NFL brothas kneeling this season with fist clenched high and hard. Guaranteed to happen. Some white players will join too. I will damn sure kneel at the next sporting event with fans that I attend.

SOME white players will join ??? 
I think Drew B was a perfect example what will happen if God forbid any of them show respect for the flag ??  !!!  

[Coach Tuesday]

36 minutes ago, Putin said:

SOME white players will join ??? 
I think Drew B was a perfect example what will happen if God forbid any of them show respect for the flag ??  !!!  

You continue to miss the point.  At some point, continued ignorance becomes a choice.  And a bad one at that.

[Ralonzo]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If you actually read those 50 pages, you would see that predominantly, they consist of people with rather different views trying pretty hard to talk to each other and stay civil.

 

There's some of that, in a football forum, ok sure whatever. A bunch of "cut him jail him burn the witch." Between this and the Oliver thread I think everyone is just bored to death.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Ralonzo

[Putin]

28 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You continue to miss the point.  At some point, continued ignorance becomes a choice.  And a bad one at that.

Continue??? What point ?? And where am I wrong ???

[Coach Tuesday]

20 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

There's some of that, in a football forum, ok sure whatever. A bunch of "cut him jail him burn the witch." Between this and the Oliver thread I think everyone is just bored to death.

No sir, not bored.  Some of us are legit fed up.  After Charlottesville, Ahmaud Arbery, George Floyd, Stephen Miller, decades - centuries - of backwards and racist views that continue to take hold in society like a stubborn bloc of cancer cells.  We’re done with it.  Be part of the solution because times are going to change.

Just now, Putin said:

Continue??? What point ?? And where am I wrong ???

It has been explained ad nauseam in this thread and elsewhere that the protests are not about the flag.  You can either absorb it or continue deliberately to be ignorant. 

[Putin]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

No sir, not bored.  Some of us are legit fed up.  After Charlottesville, Ahmaud Arbery, George Floyd, Stephen Miller, decades - centuries - of backwards and racist views that continue to take hold in society like a stubborn bloc of cancer cells.  We’re done with it.  Be part of the solution because times are going to change.

It has been explained ad nauseam in this thread and elsewhere that the protests are not about the flag.  You can either absorb it or continue deliberately to be ignorant. 

Awesome thank you !!! 
I will continue to stand proud for the national anthem and salute the flag ?? of the country that I love !!! 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, Putin said:

Awesome thank you !!! 
I will continue to stand proud for the national anthem and salute the flag ?? of the country that I love !!! 

How about this, and I ask with deep actual sincerity: you said elsewhere you weren’t born in the US.  Instead of repeating the debunked idea that the protests are about the flag (they aren’t, it’s clear), why don’t you tell us a bit about what the flag means to you.  When did you become a US citizen, why, what the symbol of the flag and anthem mean to you and why.  I’m seriously interested.

[Ralonzo]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

No sir, not bored.  Some of us are legit fed up.  After Charlottesville, Ahmaud Arbery, George Floyd, Stephen Miller, decades - centuries - of backwards and racist views that continue to take hold in society like a stubborn bloc of cancer cells.  We’re done with it.  Be part of the solution because times are going to change.

It has been explained ad nauseam in this thread and elsewhere that the protests are not about the flag.  You can either absorb it or continue deliberately to be ignorant. 

 

1) Dismissing someone's failure to accept your argument as being attributable solely to their willful ignorance argues stridently from authority and/or condescension.

2) Stadium Wall is different from Politics Polls and Pundits, which is to me - call me nutty - a preferable place to have discussion 1, at least until such point as football is played with riot shields and by hurling bricks.

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

1) Dismissing someone's failure to accept your argument as being attributable solely to their willful ignorance argues stridently from authority and/or condescension.

2) Stadium Wall is different from Politics Polls and Pundits, which is to me - call me nutty - a preferable place to have discussion 1, at least until such point as football is played with riot shields and by hurling bricks.

1) It has been explained at length here what the kneeling protests are about and how they have nothing to do with the flag.

 

2) PPP is not a preferable place for anything. It is a sewer.  If you listen closely in these threads you can hear the sound of the PPP rats crawling below.  Trying to bring perspective, logic and empathy down there is like trying to shine a fading flashlight into a rat-filled sewer: there is no real dialogue, the responses are straight out of the 4Chan far-right troll manual, you get shouted down and eventually the Rat King shows up and declares “you’re an idiot” and his subjects cackle and throw feces at you and repeat “but whatabout Hillary’s emails?” until you want to claw your own eyes out or become one of them.  It’s a horrible place and maybe one day an ambitious mod will dump a bucket of lye down that drain.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[Ralonzo]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

argumentum ab auctoritate redux

 

I'm not really seeing logic or empathy here. Was the irony intentional?

 

In any event, football: Before, during, and after the draft, based on my viewings of Georgia, I had full confidence that Fromm does not have the physical toolset to succeed in the NFL and didn't want him drafted by the Bills. Message dumps of dubious interpretation by ex-gf's or whatever aren't going to change that, so I can't make myself care about it too much one way or another, except to be bemused by both volume and intensity.

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I'm not really seeing logic or empathy here. Was the irony intentional?

 

In any event, football: Before, during, and after the draft, based on my viewings of Georgia, I had full confidence that Fromm does not have the physical toolset to succeed in the NFL and didn't want him drafted by the Bills. Message dumps of dubious interpretation by ex-gf's or whatever aren't going to change that, so I can't make myself care about it too much one way or another, except to be bemused by both volume and intensity.

The silent tyranny of a closed mind.

 

Football: PFT insinuated during the draft lead-up that the “Fromm is a great leader with off-the-charts intangibles” narrative was pure agent-driven spin.  Didn’t take long for some of his luster to fade.  Wouldn’t be shocked if he’s another A.J. “He’s Not Who We Thought He Was” McCarron and doesn’t even survive the final cuts.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[Ralonzo]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The silent tyranny of a closed mind.

 

Football: PFT insinuated during the draft lead-up that the “Fromm is a great leader with off-the-charts intangibles” narrative was pure agent-driven spin.  Didn’t take long for some of his luster to fade.  Wouldn’t be shocked if he’s another A.J. “He’s Not Who We Thought He Was” McCarron and doesn’t even survive the final cuts.

 

We've gone full ouroboros here, so I'll just say I agree with your take on Fromm's NFL prospects.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

Continue??? What point ?? And where am I wrong ???

 

The point that kneeling is not about “disrespecting the flag” or the military to the people who are protesting.  It’s about making a different respectful gesture to draw attention to the fact that some people’s experience of the country is not of “liberty and justice for all”.  You absolutely don’t have to share that viewpoint, but you could at least acknowledge it.

 

If players kneel, I would actually expect to see players like Josh Allen and Dawson Knox kneeling as a gesture of solidarity (“one for all, all for one”).  But I would actually be surprised to hear of players pressured into kneeling if they say “in my life experience, this is what it means, and I can’t kneel because to me, that would be disrespectful”.  From what I see and year, I think that would be respected; I’ll even go out on a limb and say there are some players who would respect that stance more as being genuine than someone they think is “putting on” a stance they don’t truly believe in.

 

Where Brees got into trouble, seems to me (and I refer you to Shannon Sharpe’s eloquent “Undisputed” take) is in saying “And no matter your life experience and your families, this is what it should mean to YOU.”  

46 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

We've gone full ouroboros here, so I'll just say I agree with your take on Fromm's NFL prospects.

 

I just want to say that I’m truly impressed by the use of “ouroboros”.  That’s just a beautiful word.  Say it out loud.  See what I mean?

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

1) It has been explained at length here what the kneeling protests are about and how they have nothing to do with the flag.

 

2) PPP is not a preferable place for anything. It is a sewer.  If you listen closely in these threads you can hear the sound of the PPP rats crawling below.  Trying to bring perspective, logic and empathy down there is like trying to shine a fading flashlight into a rat-filled sewer: there is no real dialogue, the responses are straight out of the 4Chan far-right troll manual, you get shouted down and eventually the Rat King shows up and declares “you’re an idiot” and his subjects cackle and throw feces at you and repeat “but whatabout Hillary’s emails?” until you want to claw your own eyes out or become one of them.  It’s a horrible place and maybe one day an ambitious mod will dump a bucket of lye down that drain.

Will you be leaving the country after November?

 

j/k, great rant!

[Needle]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The point that kneeling is not about “disrespecting the flag” or the military to the people who are protesting.  It’s about making a different respectful gesture to draw attention to the fact that some people’s experience of the country is not of “liberty and justice for all”.  You absolutely don’t have to share that viewpoint, but you could at least acknowledge it.

 

If players kneel, I would actually expect to see players like Josh Allen and Dawson Knox kneeling as a gesture of solidarity (“one for all, all for one”).  But I would actually be surprised to hear of players pressured into kneeling if they say “in my life experience, this is what it means, and I can’t kneel because to me, that would be disrespectful”.  From what I see and year, I think that would be respected; I’ll even go out on a limb and say there are some players who would respect that stance more as being genuine than someone they think is “putting on” a stance they don’t truly believe in.

 

Where Brees got into trouble, seems to me (and I refer you to Shannon Sharpe’s eloquent “Undisputed” take) is in saying “And no matter your life experience and your families, this is what it should mean to YOU.”  

 

I just want to say that I’m truly impressed by the use of “ouroboros”.  That’s just a beautiful word.  Say it out loud.  See what I mean?

Kneeling during the national anthem was/is intentionally done to be disrespectful. Whether you personally feel disrespected is up to you. It is specifically done at an exact time that everyone know will bother some. If it wasn't intentional the kneeling would take place before the game, halftime, or after the game.

 

I have never been bothered by it, even in the beginning. I do think it is completely ineffective and silly. The story has always been more about the kneeling than the message. It also doesn't make sense to say you want to be heard and then start the process by intentionally insulting people.

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The point that kneeling is not about “disrespecting the flag” or the military to the people who are protesting.  It’s about making a different respectful gesture to draw attention to the fact that some people’s experience of the country is not of “liberty and justice for all”.  You absolutely don’t have to share that viewpoint, but you could at least acknowledge it.

 

If players kneel, I would actually expect to see players like Josh Allen and Dawson Knox kneeling as a gesture of solidarity (“one for all, all for one”).  But I would actually be surprised to hear of players pressured into kneeling if they say “in my life experience, this is what it means, and I can’t kneel because to me, that would be disrespectful”.  From what I see and year, I think that would be respected; I’ll even go out on a limb and say there are some players who would respect that stance more as being genuine than someone they think is “putting on” a stance they don’t truly believe in.

 

Where Brees got into trouble, seems to me (and I refer you to Shannon Sharpe’s eloquent “Undisputed” take) is in saying “And no matter your life experience and your families, this is what it should mean to YOU.”  

 

I just want to say that I’m truly impressed by the use of “ouroboros”.  That’s just a beautiful word.  Say it out loud.  See what I mean?

 

That's what it will come down to won't it?  Now players who stand will be viewed as silent and complicit (even if they support their teammates).  

[Coach Tuesday]

34 minutes ago, Needle said:

Kneeling during the national anthem was/is intentionally done to be disrespectful. Whether you personally feel disrespected is up to you. It is specifically done at an exact time that everyone know will bother some. If it wasn't intentional the kneeling would take place before the game, halftime, or after the game.

 

Disrespectful would be blasting music over the anthem to interfere with other peoples' observance of it.  Making your own choice not to stand does not force your opinion on anyone else.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[Putin]

We ALL want justice for ALL under the law !!! 
I haven’t heard anyone HERE say otherwise , 

With regards to kneeling during a game can 

we maybe do something similar to like a minute of silence ?  where the players can have 2,3,4,5 minutes what ever time they during every game to kneel and bring attention / awareness to injustice that we all agree still exists in this country , 

 

[Needle]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Disrespectful would be blasting music over the anthem to interfere with other peoples' observance of it.  Making your own choice not to stand does not force your opinion on anyone else.

 

Your slow but deliberate descent from a contributing poster to the occasional troll has been sad to watch.

No reason to kneel during the national anthem unless you want to make a statement through silent disregard. I don't think too many people even care about it anymore. By the end of this season it will have the punch of the ice bucket challenge.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

2) PPP is not a preferable place for anything. It is a sewer.  If you listen closely in these threads you can hear the sound of the PPP rats crawling below.  Trying to bring perspective, logic and empathy down there is like trying to shine a fading flashlight into a rat-filled sewer: there is no real dialogue, the responses are straight out of the 4Chan far-right troll manual, you get shouted down and eventually the Rat King shows up and declares “you’re an idiot” and his subjects cackle and throw feces at you and repeat “but whatabout Hillary’s emails?” until you want to claw your own eyes out or become one of them.  It’s a horrible place and maybe one day an ambitious mod will dump a bucket of lye down that drain.

 

Woah, don't hold back, Tell us how you Really Feel! 

 

Whatever one's opinion of PPP may be, the point is: "Scott's House, Scott's Rules"

 

If Scott feels the discussion spurred by Brees and Fromm's comments is appropriate in TSW at this time, that's how it's gonna be.   Provided it stays civil and more or less topical.
 

1 hour ago, Putin said:

We ALL want justice for ALL under the law !!! 
I haven’t heard anyone HERE say otherwise , 

With regards to kneeling during a game can 

we maybe do something similar to like a minute of silence ?  where the players can have 2,3,4,5 minutes what ever time they during every game to kneel and bring attention / awareness to injustice that we all agree still exists in this country ,

 

 

https://twitter.com/scarecrowbar/status/1270030842241392641/photo/1

[brooklynbill]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh my Ears and Whiskers!  I hope you're not judging either one's humanity, or one's support for badly needed anti-racism changes, by willingness to kneel in a stadium?

 

Not in any way to disparage the gesture, it's fine, but perhaps it is not the ultimate yardstick of meaningful efforts or committment to effect change?

The arrogance. Sorry you don't get to decide how I protest. I will do so how I see fit not to your approval or opinion. I don't tell you how to manage your apathy

[LB3]

1 minute ago, brooklynbill said:

The arrogance. Sorry you don't get to decide how I protest. I will do so how I see fit not to your approval or opinion. I don't tell you how to manage your apathy

You missed their point.

[brooklynbill]

3 hours ago, Putin said:

SOME white players will join ??? 
I think Drew B was a perfect example what will happen if God forbid any of them show respect for the flag ??  !!!  

The last  time I checked my tv, I saw thousands of young white and non black people who were pretty pissed off. Unlike Drew Brees they dont have millions or a brand to protect. Maybe they feel they were lied to, hoodwinked bamboozled and lied to for political gain.

[brooklynbill]

2 hours ago, Putin said:

Awesome thank you !!! 
I will continue to stand proud for the national anthem and salute the flag ?? of the country that I love !!! 

Good one you for excercising your right. Respect others who choose their right not to do so.

[teef]

this brooklynbill character...

[Beast]

7 minutes ago, brooklynbill said:

Good one you for excercising your right. Respect others who choose their right not to do so.

 

I get what you are saying but I don't have to repect kneelers, and I won't respect kneelers but I also realize that it is their right to kneel.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Beast

[brooklynbill]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The silent tyranny of a closed mind.

 

Football: PFT insinuated during the draft lead-up that the “Fromm is a great leader with off-the-charts intangibles” narrative was pure agent-driven spin.  Didn’t take long for some of his luster to fade.  Wouldn’t be shocked if he’s another A.J. “He’s Not Who We Thought He Was” McCarron and doesn’t even survive the final cuts.

Makes me question the "process". Do the Bills do thorough back ground checks including social media? This was not the first issue with QB text messages.

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just to be clear, you weren't talking to me as "you" above were you?  I believe it was @Rob's House who said a survey showed 50% of blacks didn't feel racism had a major effect on their lives.  I would love to see that survey.

 

It doesn't have to be double blind or randomized; I just want to see something showing the study, design and the data.  Because anyone can come up and say anything, doesn't make it true.

It was at Rob House. Sorry if that was not clear

[brooklynbill]

7 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

I get what you are saying but I don't have to repect kneelers, and I won't respect kneelers but I also realize that it is their right to kneel.

I don't need you to respect what I choose to do. I could careless how you feel. We can agree to disagree