Drew Brees: Controversial comments

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

L

My apologies....I should have waited another 30 minutes to reply. I'm glad you came to the conclusion that you did that I support police brutality in such a quick manner as well. Where do we go from here?

The article was laughably bad. Don’t waste your time. It has me dangerously close to breaking my “no R-word” policy.

[Doc]

21 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I think I won’t even begin to consider it if the person who raises it as a possibility is also for the disarmament of the citizens of this country. 

 

Yup.  And even then, there are gangs.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Yup.  And even then, there are gangs.

The "only cops should have guns" has now turned to "defund all police."  So no one should have guns, except criminals.  Sounds like a really great idea to me!

[BigBillsFan]

36 minutes ago, Logic said:

Keep happily supporting the system that perpetuates police brutality and the use of military force against black citizens and peacefully assembled protestors. I and others, meanwhile, would prefer to at least entertain alternative ideas.

 

Why just black citizens? It's demonstrably true white people are shot and killed unarmed at a higher rate adjusted by homicide rates.

 

"Peter Moskos, an assistant professor at New York City University’s John Jay College of Criminal Justice, has concluded that during the period ranging from May 2013 to April of 2015 roughly 49% of those killed by LEOs were white, while only 30% were black....

 

"PolitiFact points out, however, that blacks only make up 12% of the population. By breaking down racial populations it would appear black men are at a 3.5 times greater risk of being killed by police. But that doesn’t include a breakdown of violent crime stats.

“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” Moskos said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

 

Maybe the problem isn't a white or black issue, but an over-militization of the police force and brutality on it's citizens.

[Logic]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I think I won’t even begin to consider it if the person who raises it as a possibility is also for the disarmament of the citizens of this country. 

I am not for the "disarmament of the citizens of this country".

I AM for logical gun law reform. I want to take guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and people with criminal backgrounds. I have no interest whatsoever in taking guns away from sane, law-abiding citizens.

1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

 

My apologies....I should have waited another 30 minutes to reply. I'm glad you came to the conclusion that you did that I support police brutality in such a quick manner as well. Where do we go from here?......Also, while we're at it, weren't you one of the guys who was adamantly opposed to people going out and congregating during this whole covid thing? Surely you can't be fond of these protests. Its going to a terrible strain on the hospitals and such.

Waited 30 minutes? No. Just a silly notion on my part that you would actually READ the content that you were commenting on before passing judgement on it.

I do wish that conditions in our country weren't such that these protests were necessary, yes. I do acknowledge that they are a nightmare as far as COVID transmission is concerned, yes. I also feel that police brutality and racism are public health emergencies, and that NOT demonstrating resistance to these emergencies isn't an option for many people. Resisting systems of oppression has always been deadly. Some causes -- like stopping police brutality and racist violence -- are, in my opinion, worth risking one's life for.

1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Why just black citizens? It's demonstrably true white people are shot and killed unarmed at a higher rate adjusted by homicide rates.

 

"Peter Moskos, an assistant professor at New York City University’s John Jay College of Criminal Justice, has concluded that during the period ranging from May 2013 to April of 2015 roughly 49% of those killed by LEOs were white, while only 30% were black....

 

"PolitiFact points out, however, that blacks only make up 12% of the population. By breaking down racial populations it would appear black men are at a 3.5 times greater risk of being killed by police. But that doesn’t include a breakdown of violent crime stats.

“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” Moskos said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

 

Maybe the problem isn't a white or black issue, but an over-militization of the police force and brutality on it's citizens.

Finally, amazingly, you and I agree on something: Over-militarization of the police force and brutality on its citizens is a huge problem.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

I am not for the "disarmament of the citizens of this country".

I AM for logical gun law reform. I want to take guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and people with criminal backgrounds. I have no interest whatsoever in taking guns away from sane, law-abiding citizens.

Waited 30 minutes? No. Just a silly notion on my part that you would actually READ the content that you were commenting on before passing judgement on it.

I do wish that conditions in our country weren't such that these protests were necessary, yes. I do acknowledge that they are a nightmare as far as COVID transmission is concerned, yes. I also feel that police brutality and racism are public health emergencies, and that NOT demonstrating resistance to these emergencies isn't an option for many people. Resisting systems of oppression has always been deadly. Some causes -- like stopping police brutality and racist violence -- are, in my opinion, worth risking one's life for.

Finally, amazingly, you and I agree on something: Over-militarization of the police force and brutality on its citizens is a huge problem.

I’m sorry to pivot, but how could police brutality be more of an emergency than the virus that has killed 100 thousand plus Americans in 3 months?

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Why just black citizens? It's demonstrably true white people are shot and killed unarmed at a higher rate adjusted by homicide rates.

 

"Peter Moskos, an assistant professor at New York City University’s John Jay College of Criminal Justice, has concluded that during the period ranging from May 2013 to April of 2015 roughly 49% of those killed by LEOs were white, while only 30% were black....

 

"PolitiFact points out, however, that blacks only make up 12% of the population. By breaking down racial populations it would appear black men are at a 3.5 times greater risk of being killed by police. But that doesn’t include a breakdown of violent crime stats.

“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” Moskos said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

 

Maybe the problem isn't a white or black issue, but an over-militization of the police force and brutality on it's citizens.

Great points. I think most officers are decent people just trying to do a noble job. The problem exists with the system. Race is a factor, but it really misses the fact that policing varies greatly between poor communities and upper middle class communities. That’s where we have a huge discrepancy.

 

The war on drugs has created a culture where we are looking for problems where they are “most likely” to be found. I grew up in a poor rural community. Many of my classmates are now in jail from opioid arrests. I remember not being able to drive the streets of that predominantly white town after dark without getting pulled over. The town I grew up in has a population of around 5,000, and had a large town police force, in addition to the sheriff. I now live a suburb of 20,000 with no police force other than the county sheriff. We know exactly who to target, and it’s poor people with drug problems. 

9 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I’m sorry to pivot, but how could police brutality be more of an emergency than the virus that has killed 100 thousand plus Americans in 3 months?

It’s not, but I think some of what’s going now speaks to the fact American society is over Covid 19. It’s remains a real threat, but I think we’re nearing the point of total fatigue. 

[Logic]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I’m sorry to pivot, but how could police brutality be more of an emergency than the virus that has killed 100 thousand plus Americans in 3 months?

What I am saying is that systemic racism has been going on for 400 years and that, combined with the very real threat of ongoing police brutality committed by highly militarized agents of the state, it represents a very real and longstanding public health emergency. I understand and empathize with people for being willing to risk the threat of contracting coronavirus in the name of fighting something that has been ravaging black Americans for four centuries. 

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/04/870025677/coronavirus-and-racism-are-dual-public-health-emergencies

https://www.wsna.org/news/2020/racism-is-a-public-health-emergency

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/health/racism-public-health-issue-police-brutality-wellness-bn/index.html

https://www.cleveland.com/akron/2020/06/akron-seeks-to-declare-racism-a-public-health-emergency.html

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/06/03/somerville-racism-public-health-emergency-black-lives-matter/

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

What I am saying is that systemic racism has been going on for 400 years and that, combined with the very real threat of ongoing police brutality committed by highly militarized agents of the state, it represents a very real and longstanding public health emergency. I understand and empathize with people for being willing to risk the threat of contracting coronavirus in the name of fighting something that has been ravaging black Americans for four centuries. 

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/04/870025677/coronavirus-and-racism-are-dual-public-health-emergencies

https://www.wsna.org/news/2020/racism-is-a-public-health-emergency

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/health/racism-public-health-issue-police-brutality-wellness-bn/index.html

https://www.cleveland.com/akron/2020/06/akron-seeks-to-declare-racism-a-public-health-emergency.html

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2020/06/03/somerville-racism-public-health-emergency-black-lives-matter/

I’m sorry but no. Corona was the “it’s time to listen to scientists” era. No respectable scientists should be condoning protesting police brutality and racism as more important than COVID. 

 

Every single one of your articles was posted days or a week after the protests started. It is politically expedient to do so. These groups know that saying protestors are “killing grandma” won’t fly in this climate. 

 

Furthermore, they all KNOW that the social and racial determinants of health are not new. Maybe the time to try to enact large scale change was when we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic. But again, politcal expendiency.

 

NOTHING has changed IRT social determinants of health in the last week. To hand-wave this as “it’s just as important as COVID” is pure intellectually dishonesty by the same folks who not 10 days were calling for people who broke stay at home orders to be arrested for jeopardizing public health.

 

This topic is not conducive to being discussed on TSW, however, but I invite you to continue discussing it with me on PPP. You don’t have to respond to the minions down there, but I feel you and I can have a reasonable discussion in the dungeon.

[Logic]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I’m sorry but no. Corona was the “it’s time to listen to scientists” era. No respectable scientists should be condoning protesting police brutality and racism as more important than COVID. 

 

Every single one of your articles was posted days or a week after the protests started. It is politically expedient to do so. These groups know that saying protestors are “killing grandma” won’t fly in this climate. 

 

Furthermore, they all KNOW that the social and racial determinants of health are not new. Maybe the time to try to enact large scale change was when we weren’t in the middle of a pandemic. But again, politcal expendiency.

 

NOTHING has changed IRT social determinants of health in the last week. To hand-wave this as “it’s just as important as COVID” is pure intellectually dishonesty by the same folks who not 10 days were calling for people who broke stay at home orders to be arrested for jeopardizing public health.

 

This topic is not conducive to being discussed on TSW, however, but I invite you to continue discussing it with me on PPP. You don’t have to respond to the minions down there, but I feel you and I can have a reasonable discussion in the dungeon.

 

1. YOU don’t consider racism a public health emergency. You’re not black, I assume, so it’s not your life or your childrens’ life on the line.

 

2. This whole thread belongs in the PPP, why are you just NOW wanting to take it there?

 

3. No “reasonable” discussion is ever had in the dungeon. 

 

4. I have never stated that racism is MORE of a threat than COVID, only that it is urgent and that I understand why people are willing to risk their lives to oppose it.

 

5. You’re not going to change my mind on racism being an urgent public health issue. I’m clearly not going to change yours, either. We can agree to disagree, it’s fine.

 

 

p.s. Equating people protesting (maskless and fully armed, by the way) for the right to get haircuts and Applebee’s is NOT as urgent or pressing as protesting 400 years of racism in America.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Logic

[FireChans]

26 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

1. YOU don’t consider racism a public health emergency. You’re not black, I assume, so it’s not your life or your childrens’ life on the line.

 

2. This whole thread belongs in the PPP, why are you just NOW wanting to take it there?

 

3. No “reasonable” discussion is ever had in the dungeon. 

 

4. You’re not going to change my mind on racism being an urgent public health issue. I’m clearly not going to change yours, either. We can agree to disagree, it’s fine.

1. Public health issues are PUBLIC issues. 

 

2. Because a moderator already warned me that just because the NFL and the greater race discussion are closely linked and allowed on the main board, it does not mean it is open season for every topic.

 

3. Again, I just don’t want either of us to get suspended or banned.

 

4. If racism was such an urgent health issue, were you talking about how we needed to protest to get it addressed 2 weeks ago?

 

@Hapless Bills Fan I’m trying to be good!

 

Edit in response to your edit

 

 

4. I have never stated that racism is MORE of a threat than COVID, only that it is urgent and that I understand why people are willing to risk their lives to oppose it.

 

Good, because it isn't more of a threat. It is, by every objective measure, FAR LESS of a threat. Oh and it's not their lives they are risking, but the public health by potentially spreading it. Remember "killing grandma?"  Did she sign up for the risk?

 

p.s. Equating people protesting (maskless and fully armed, by the way) for the right to get haircuts and Applebee’s is NOT as urgent or pressing as protesting 400 years of racism in America.

 

Oh I'm not talking about those protests. I'm talking about violators of stay at home orders. Why 10 days ago was it such a moral indictment to violate stay at home orders but now it is not?

 

Why 10 days ago, were folks on beaches "killing grandma" but the masses in protest aren't?

 

Why 10 days ago, someone losing their livelihood (which will negatively impact their social determinants of health as income is INHERENTLY linked to worse health outcomes) was a necessary sacrifice to save lives, but now it's not?

 

I can't make you see the political expediency of this health crisis that only became a health crisis "worth" protesting NOW because people were protesting anyway and no one had the stones to say anything and incite folks. Do you think Fauci hasn't said anything because he's not concerned or because he's knows he'll be eaten alive?

 

There are only TWO explanations.  Either COVID was not as big of a deal as many folks claimed (which, with its 100k death total is hard to swallow) OR these protestors are CLEARLY putting public health in jeopardy and are all "killing grandma" but the head of the Nursing Association can't come out and say that or else they'd be crucified.

 

That's the last I will say on the subject.  You are welcome to disagree, but I believe you are sorely mistaken, and if you are wrong, you have inadvertently justified the expansion of the worst pandemic in living history because you believe that some people believe its worth it and that somehow makes it okay.

Edited June 7, 2020 by FireChans

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Needle said:

I'm all for reasonable police reform. Let's face it, some departments probably need to be evaluated from top to bottom.

 

The demilitarizing is a tough thing to sell me. I'm not in favor of a military style police force being used on the regular but hasn't the last two weeks kind of justified having that capability?

 

I'm honestly unsure. 

It seemed here in 2016 and 2014, that the most de-escalation occurred when

1) the Hwy Patrol came in and walked and talked with the protesters and took a less confrontational approach

and

2) there were clear commitments to a trusted independent investigation of the police department in question - by the Feds

 

When the police had their line in their riot gear, what seemed to happen is that they'd get pinned down advancing slowly against a crowd of protestors, agitators would incite by throwing rocks and bottles of urine or acid then ducking back into the crowd, and criminals would work in concert behind the crowd to break windows, loot stores (stripped bare in minutes), and start fires while the police were working their way forward and kind of blocked off and pinned down by their own tactics. 

 

I understand the intent of the whole curfew/clearing the streets/police in riot gear thing is to prevent destruction of property or injuries, but both seemed to happen anyway.
 

So that makes me wonder if the police departments didn't have the militarized stuff, would they explore other strategies that might be more effective?  Focus on helping the community board up and protect property, focus on staging fire suppression gear, stuff I haven't thought of?  Maybe there aren't such strategies, but while necessity is for sure a Mother, it also is truly the Mother of Invention.

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm honestly unsure. 

It seemed here in 2016 and 2014, that the most de-escalation occurred when

1) the Hwy Patrol came in and walked and talked with the protesters and took a less confrontational approach

and

2) there were clear commitments to a trusted independent investigation of the police department in question - by the Feds

 

When the police had their line in their riot gear, what seemed to happen is that they'd get pinned down advancing slowly against a crowd of protestors, agitators would incite by throwing rocks and bottles of urine or acid then ducking back into the crowd, and criminals would work in concert behind the crowd to break windows, loot stores (stripped bare in minutes), and start fires while the police were working their way forward and kind of blocked off and pinned down by their own tactics. 

 

I understand the intent of the whole curfew/clearing the streets/police in riot gear thing is to prevent destruction of property or injuries, but both seemed to happen anyway.
 

So that makes me wonder if the police departments didn't have the militarized stuff, would they explore other strategies that might be more effective?  Focus on helping the community board up and protect property, focus on staging fire suppression gear, stuff I haven't thought of?  Maybe there aren't such strategies, but while necessity is for sure a Mother, it also is truly the Mother of Invention.

how about this… How about actively organize the protests? Time place route? It’s hard to be violent at people who are enabling you to be heard.

[GregPersons]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

how about this… How about actively organize the protests? Time place route? It’s hard to be violent at people who are enabling you to be heard.

 

That would be a lot better than what we're currently seeing on social from protests in NYC and LA for sure when the curfews were in place, and elsewhere too I'd bet — of "kettling" the protestors into closed off streets with closed metro/bus/ubers and surrounded by police who begin arrests & beatings the moment the curfew begins. 

 

To Hapless — yes community involvement would be huge. In Los Angeles, amazing thing happened earlier this week — the Police Commission board, which usually hides its meetings Tuesdays at 9am at City Hall (not an accident; sneaky bastards). But because of Covid, they had to put themselves on Zoom.

 

 

And it so happened to be a week where a lot of people had a lot to say. And now it was much easier to attend.

 

This video is 8 hours long... but click anywhere in the timeline and watch any 3-5 minute clip. Each call is 2 or 1 minutes long, 30 seconds toward the end. The callers are so clear throughout, though the voices are different and the views differ on some things.

 

This kind of thing should be considered training, and it should be something that police nationwide engage in with their communities immediately. Literally just take some time, as part of your job, to sit and just listen to people. And absorb it. And consider how you can serve that community.

 

 

Unfortunately, the listening in this case wasn't earnest. You can see throughout they don't want to listen. Every other caller screams at them to pay attention and look at them while being addressed. And unfortunately, Moore is still employed with LAPD. Despite hundred and hundreds of calls specifically asking for him to step down. Who is being served by this? It's not the community!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, SDS said:

how about this… How about actively organize the protests? Time place route? It’s hard to be violent at people who are enabling you to be heard.

 

I think that's been happening....I believe in Buffalo, at least one protest that the police knew about, the protesters were blocked from accessing the expressway and shutting it down but when they continued marching the police provided both lead and follow cars to protect them from traffic and shut intersections so they could cross en mass

 

The problem is, people gather outside the organized protests and keep protesting, and when the sun goes down, the mood changes.  I don't know; if the protests were actively organized for after dark and supported, perhaps you are right and that would help maintain the mood.  There were a couple towns that actually set up a stage because some performers with local connections wanted to play so officials made it happen.  The performers intermixed faith and community leaders talking and it worked out well, but those towns weren't the "epicenter" so to speak.

[Gugny]

9 hours ago, SDS said:

how about this… How about actively organize the protests? Time place route? It’s hard to be violent at people who are enabling you to be heard.

 

Here in Glens Falls (pop. 15,000), that's exactly what happened.  Over 2,000 gathered at Crandall Park, which is in the center of "downtown," then police cars escorted them on a walk down Glen Street, which is the main street in the city (plenty of alternate routes that would add minimal time).  Police also walked with them (not as participants, per se).

 

It was 100% peaceful with no arrests or drama of any kind.  I think the pre-planning and the fact that the police didn't show up with riot gear are THE reasons a crowd that big was able to pull off a perfectly peaceful, non-disruptive protest.

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Here in Glens Falls (pop. 15,000), that's exactly what happened.  Over 2,000 gathered at Crandall Park, which is in the center of "downtown," then police cars escorted them on a walk down Glen Street, which is the main street in the city (plenty of alternate routes that would add minimal time).  Police also walked with them (not as participants, per se).

 

It was 100% peaceful with no arrests or drama of any kind.  I think the pre-planning and the fact that the police didn't show up with riot gear are THE reasons a crowd that big was able to pull off a perfectly peaceful, non-disruptive protest.

I would add a third reason it didn’t get violent. Because it’s Glens Falls, NY. Soccer moms aren’t the brick throwing type.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I have my own opinions, Brees has his, Malcolm Jenkins has his, there is no right reason if that's what you believe in and again that's my opinion. To make Brees out to be the bad guy in all of this for what he believes in is bothersome to me and the same goes for Jenkins but again just my opinions.

[Rocbillsfan1]

35 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I have my own opinions, Brees has his, Malcolm Jenkins has his, there is no right reason if that's what you believe in and again that's my opinion. To make Brees out to be the bad guy in all of this for what he believes in is bothersome to me and the same goes for Jenkins but again just my opinions.

It’s not bothersome that he claimed moral superiority over all the black players that want to silently protest and bring awareness to racial inequality? The *****? Maybe he didn’t say white power and do a hitler salute but what he said was extremely hurtful and ignorant. But he’s allowed to his opinion and is right? Is he also right to think gayness can be prayed away and that you can be converted into straightness through therapy? Sounds like you are part of the problem. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Here in Glens Falls (pop. 15,000), that's exactly what happened.  Over 2,000 gathered at Crandall Park, which is in the center of "downtown," then police cars escorted them on a walk down Glen Street, which is the main street in the city (plenty of alternate routes that would add minimal time).  Police also walked with them (not as participants, per se).

 

It was 100% peaceful with no arrests or drama of any kind.  I think the pre-planning and the fact that the police didn't show up with riot gear are THE reasons a crowd that big was able to pull off a perfectly peaceful, non-disruptive protest.

 

But Gugny, that same scene is pretty much true of the daytime protests in many of the larger cities.  We drove past a sizeable protest in Niagara Square on May 30.  There were police cars to be seen watching the back of city hall, and police officers blocking the steps of city hall (not in riot gear), but the crowd was clearly peaceful.  We spent the night in another part of the state.  The next morning we read about that night, businesses having their glass broken in Allentown, vandalism to city hall and someone trying to set it on fire ("we have you on camera, you idiot" -Mayor Brown).

 

The Hapless fam had a ringside seat to a similar dynamic in St Louis in 2014 and 2016.  There are daytime protests - some permitted by the city, some not - that are generally peaceful and feature police in ordinary gear (maybe bulletproofs under their shirts).  Any arrests or incidents are minor and in keeping with a typical concert-going crowd of that size.  Mostly the police control traffic at intersections and before/behind the group and sometimes block them from getting onto Interstate highways.  At night, the mood changes and the crowd turns surly and bricks/stones/bottles of piss are thrown, possibly by instigators but the crowd may take it up.  People who may or may not be affiliated with the protestors seize the opportunity to break windows and loot businesses (my friend's brother said that other crime in the city plummeted to nothing those nights and implied they had evidence criminals were using the protests as cover to strip some stores bare).  To try to control this, city government imposed a curfew and then police had to enforce it, so to forcibly clear people off the streets they employed riot gear, armored vehicles, tear gas, pepper spray, flash-bangs, techniques like kettling.  The crowd reacted to violence with more violence.

The real losers were all the enterpreneurial small businessmen and women whose independent businesses got smashed up, looted, or burned.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but the point is a peaceful daytime protest that is supported by authorities doesn't necessarily eliminate the problem of an unruly and sometimes violent crowd later on.  And from what I've seen, the violent, adversarial techniques employed by police don't necessarily prevent the looting or burning, either.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I have my own opinions, Brees has his, Malcolm Jenkins has his, there is no right reason if that's what you believe in and again that's my opinion. To make Brees out to be the bad guy in all of this for what he believes in is bothersome to me and the same goes for Jenkins but again just my opinions.

 

Gospel, I understand your position about "no right reason", but if you would, I'd suggest listening to Shannon Sharp on Undisputed.  Drew Brees said he could “never agree with anybody disrespecting the flag of the United States of America.”  Brees said he stands with his teammates for their fight for equality but also that he stands with family members who have served in the military.

 

The 49ers initially said: "In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose and participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem.".  The NFL initial statement was "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the national anthem."  Then a different message took place and was amplified and spread of kneeling = disrespect, not only of flag or military.

 

Listen to Shannon Sharp if you can take the time.  First 6:30 minutes. 

I don't want to paraphrase him.  I wish I could find a transcript. 

 

 

 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But Gugny, that same scene is pretty much true of the daytime protests in many of the larger cities.  We drove past a sizeable protest in Niagara Square on May 30.  There were police cars to be seen watching the back of city hall, and police officers blocking the steps of city hall (not in riot gear), but the crowd was clearly peaceful.  We spent the night in another part of the state.  The next morning we read about that night, businesses having their glass broken in Allentown, vandalism to city hall and someone trying to set it on fire ("we have you on camera, you idiot" -Mayor Brown).

 

The Hapless fam had a ringside seat to a similar dynamic in St Louis in 2014 and 2016.  There are daytime protests - some permitted by the city, some not - that are generally peaceful and feature police in ordinary gear (maybe bulletproofs under their shirts).  Any arrests or incidents are minor and in keeping with a typical concert-going crowd of that size.  Mostly the police control traffic at intersections and before/behind the group and sometimes block them from getting onto Interstate highways.  At night, the mood changes and the crowd turns surly and bricks/stones/bottles of piss are thrown, possibly by instigators but the crowd may take it up.  People who may or may not be affiliated with the protestors seize the opportunity to break windows and loot businesses (my friend's brother said that other crime in the city plummeted to nothing those nights and implied they had evidence criminals were using the protests as cover to strip some stores bare).  To try to control this, city government imposed a curfew and then police had to enforce it, so to forcibly clear people off the streets they employed riot gear, armored vehicles, tear gas, pepper spray, flash-bangs, techniques like kettling.  The crowd reacted to violence with more violence.

The real losers were all the enterpreneurial small businessmen and women whose independent businesses got smashed up, looted, or burned.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but the point is a peaceful daytime protest that is supported by authorities doesn't necessarily eliminate the problem of an unruly and sometimes violent crowd later on.  And from what I've seen, the violent, adversarial techniques employed by police don't necessarily prevent the looting or burning, either.

 

 

All great points and yes - those whose businesses were destroyed/looted are unnecessary victims.  I firmly believe there are people who want to protest and people who want to steal/destroy things.  I don't believe very many are the same people.  It's all very sad.

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

All great points and yes - those whose businesses were destroyed/looted are unnecessary victims.  I firmly believe there are people who want to protest and people who want to steal/destroy things.  I don't believe very many are the same people.  It's all very sad.

Almost none are the same people

 

All the peaceful protesters in Buffalo go home by dark, and that's when the mischief starts and the people that want to do damage come out

[K-9]

26 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

All great points and yes - those whose businesses were destroyed/looted are unnecessary victims.  I firmly believe there are people who want to protest and people who want to steal/destroy things.  I don't believe very many are the same people.  It's all very sad.

There are all kinds to be sure. From out of town agitators to professional criminals who make looting a tactical event to just plain A holes. Then there are provocateurs like this guy, who was dressed for the occasion and even remembered to bring the umbrella to avoid the helicopters overhead. I like the little guy with the pizza, he’s got some sand.

Those windows he’s smashing are the AutoZone store that went up in flames the first night of the protests in Minneapolis. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by K-9

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, SDS said:

how about this… How about actively organize the protests? Time place route? It’s hard to be violent at people who are enabling you to be heard.

What you stated is exactly how large and other sized demonstrations were conducted in DC. There would be requests for demonstration permits. And that would be the starting point for an agreement on logistics and the routes. In DC it was a special unit run by officials who were very experienced and wise in how to handle demonstrations of all kinds.  I'm pretty sure that format wasn't followed in the demonstration that occurred at Lafayette and H St. NW a few days ago. 

[Doc Brown]

On 6/6/2020 at 2:10 AM, GregPersons said:

 

Brees post to Trump tells me he has been listening. Even if that's all his copywriter, he's still approving this message. This is a good response. It's also why I never believed Brees was "canceled." One blunder like that can easily be forgiven and over-written with proactive statements and actions.

 

I think he was rightfully embarrassed, and taken to task. And he was willing to listen, and absorb the message. I don't see a need to villify him further. We don't need more enemies. This is about getting people to wake up and see reality instead of insisting on fiction.

 

It'd be nice to see Jake Fromm or Josh Allen or any of the other white Bills brass be as vocal and direct, instead of just offering vague support while the black teammates do the real work.

 

 

Too little.  Too late.  Brees's name will be forever tied to Colin Kaepernick's whether he likes it or not.  I always thought it would be another white quarterback (Brady) who would put his foot in his mouth.

[BigBillsFan]

Here's one of the reasons why Brees stepped back his comments... they threatened his family and his life:
https://sports.yahoo.com/brees-received-death-threats-over-flag-comments-210850887--nfl.html

 

Sorry this is where all of this discussion board stuff doesn't factor in when you make it a "free speech" issue. It's not that simple, that's merely in the abstract. People on the other side have proven to be more violent, more threatening, and no matter how peaceful some people have been they certainly aren't en masse denouncing the violence, murder, and destruction of lives in their wake.

 

Notice how the media isn't 24/7 showing the death of the cop, David Dorn, who was shot, 27 years of service to this country, dying on the street and he's black. Nor do they show the innocent people maimed and injured. It's political and not about George Floyd, he's just their lightning rod.

 

All people, including myself, would be perfectly fine supporting a Black Lives Matter protest against police brutality, and to a large extent they hurt their own cause to many people like myself when it's purely political. They don't care about Black Lives as much as they crave power.

 

When Black Lives Matter stand up for:
Dave Patrick Underwood
David Dorn

et. al.

 

And the other black lives destroyed in their wake, businesses destroyed.  Does the mob or media care? No, they can't blame the police and protest for no reason as the cop is arrested. Instead we must see this for what it is, it's a political attack on free speech and taking of power.

[Rico]

1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said:

Here's one of the reasons why Brees stepped back his comments... they threatened his family and his life:
https://sports.yahoo.com/brees-received-death-threats-over-flag-comments-210850887--nfl.html

 

Sorry this is where all of this discussion board stuff doesn't factor in when you make it a "free speech" issue. It's not that simple, that's merely in the abstract. People on the other side have proven to be more violent, more threatening, and no matter how peaceful some people have been they certainly aren't en masse denouncing the violence, murder, and destruction of lives in their wake.

 

Notice how the media isn't 24/7 showing the death of the cop, David Dorn, who was shot, 27 years of service to this country, dying on the street and he's black. Nor do they show the innocent people maimed and injured. It's political and not about George Floyd, he's just their lightning rod.

 

All people, including myself, would be perfectly fine supporting a Black Lives Matter protest against police brutality, and to a large extent they hurt their own cause to many people like myself when it's purely political. They don't care about Black Lives as much as they crave power.

 

When Black Lives Matter stand up for:
Dave Patrick Underwood
David Dorn

et. al.

 

And the other black lives destroyed in their wake, businesses destroyed.  Does the mob or media care? No, they can't blame the police and protest for no reason as the cop is arrested. Instead we must see this for what it is, it's a political attack on free speech and taking of power.

Yep. All about November.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

Here's one of the reasons why Brees stepped back his comments... they threatened his family and his life:
https://sports.yahoo.com/brees-received-death-threats-over-flag-comments-210850887--nfl.html

 

Sorry this is where all of this discussion board stuff doesn't factor in when you make it a "free speech" issue. It's not that simple, that's merely in the abstract. People on the other side have proven to be more violent, more threatening, and no matter how peaceful some people have been they certainly aren't en masse denouncing the violence, murder, and destruction of lives in their wake.

 

First off, public figures get death threats regularly, sad to say.  Cody Ford tweeted about a death threat he received after the Houston game.  So I doubt it's a reason why Brees stepped back his comment; most wealthy people employ a Threat Assessment service to deal with that stuff.

 

But man....people on the other side (what other side is that? people who protest watching a man die with a cop kneeling on his beck?) PROVEN to be more violent, more threatening etc?

 

What do you think the social media feed of the publically identified BLM protest leaders look like?  What do you think Kaepernick's social media looked like?  Do you think these guys don't get death threats, on a regular basis? 

 

Go ahead, Bet your rent...go Broke.

 

And if we're talking about violence, how about this:

https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-white-supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.html
 

"Hang Fauci.  Hang Gates"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hang-fauci-trump-long-island-covid-19-protest_n_5ec1c6e9c5b6f6a9e9c6ae29

 

PROVEN.....I don't think that word "PROVEN" means what you think it means. 

But if you supply the PROOF I give you my word I will walk this back.  [Only identifiable media who take accountability and will disclose how they vet their sources though.  I will not walk back for something that can not be verified to not be a Foreign Bot site.]

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:38 PM, FireChans said:

I can't make you see the political expediency of this health crisis that only became a health crisis "worth" protesting NOW because people were protesting anyway and no one had the stones to say anything and incite folks. Do you think Fauci hasn't said anything because he's not concerned or because he's knows he'll be eaten alive?

 

If you're talking about Fauci taking a position that the BLM protests pose a "perfect setup" to spread covid-19, he has in fact spoken up and done so. 

 

One of the sources reporting it was linked up yesterday:

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/223343-covid-19-discussion-and-humor-thread-was-cdc-says-dont-touch-your-face-to-avoid-covid19vets-to-the-rescue/page/139/?tab=comments#comment-6568871

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/5/dr-anthony-fauci-warns-perfect-set-spread-coronavi/

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396585/Dr-Fauci-warns-Black-Lives-Matter-protests-perfect-setup-spreading-coronavirus.html

 

 

I believe he made the remarks in an interview on Friday.

https://wtop.com/national/2020/06/dr-fauci-protests-are-perfect-setup-for-coronavirus-spread/

 

 

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

13 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

People on the other side have proven to be more violent, more threatening, and no matter how peaceful some people have been they certainly aren't en masse denouncing the violence, murder, and destruction of lives in their wake.

You mean like the folks who, just a few weeks ago, were literally protesting with assault rifles?

 

EDIT: can you imagine the collective pearl-clutching that would happen if thousands of black males protested outside a statehouse holding assault rifles?  The rhetoric that would come out of 1600 Penn??  I can’t believe some of this spin...

Edited June 8, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 6/6/2020 at 7:32 PM, BigBillsFan said:

Maybe the problem isn't a white or black issue, but an over-militization of the police force and brutality on it's citizens.

 

Over-militarization is a big problem and affects people of all races and creeds.

 

Here is one sad example of a white suburban family that asked for help with their distraught, possibly suicidal son and got cleared from their house while a SWAT team was called.  The son wound up eventually committing suicide.

https://patch.com/massachusetts/hingham/parents-man-who-killed-himself-while-barricaded-question-use-swat-team-scene

"Kate Harrison, Austin's mother, said she asked why the regional response was necessary. Russell (the dad) said they turned a situation involving a person distressed about his ex-girlfriend into a life-and-death situation."
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/07/15/his-parents-said-just-needed-sleep-swat-team-came-instead/1sTWdBw2MNqqFGCOUfLnHL/story.html

 

Even the Puppers get shot (the family in this case is white):

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2019/07/02/the-st-louis-county-swat-team-blasted-a-dog-now-the-county-owes-750000
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/tony-messenger/messenger-the-case-of-the-dead-dog-an-unpaid-gas-bill-and-the-militarization-of/article_584e36c6-bf54-5e8e-97d3-266eb96f0158.html
 

I'm sure our officers here could point to cases where SWAT tactics and equipment were helpful and life-saving. 

 

But it sort of seems as though too many situations are handled in a "Big Boys want to play with their Big Toys" manner or according to the old saying "When your best tool is a Hammer, every problem looks like a Nail". 

Keep in mind the second link is about an UNPAID GAS BILL.  Do you think the Founders of our Country thought freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures meant armored, armed police bursting into a house and shooting a dog in a room occupied by a child and an infant, over an UNPAID BILL?

I think St Louis County could have done a lot of community good with the $750,000 settlement they wound up paying.

 

It's out of control, and You're Right: it's not just a black or a white issue.

[Needle]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You mean like the folks who, just a few weeks ago, were literally protesting with assault rifles?

 

EDIT: can you imagine the collective pearl-clutching that would happen if thousands of black males protested outside a statehouse holding assault rifles?  The rhetoric that would come out of 1600 Penn??  I can’t believe some of this spin...

This is inaccurate. There were less than 100 idiots with assault rifles and said idiots caused no damage. The violence, death, destruction, and number of players involved in the riots is obviously not even close. I don't understand the point of this argument but comparing the trash that showed up in Michigan isn't a comparison at all.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Needle

[K-9]

49 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You mean like the folks who, just a few weeks ago, were literally protesting with assault rifles?

 

EDIT: can you imagine the collective pearl-clutching that would happen if thousands of black males protested outside a statehouse holding assault rifles?  The rhetoric that would come out of 1600 Penn??  I can’t believe some of this spin...

What if  these folks in Indiana were black? This is what they brought to “peaceful” protest. Glad nobody got angry. 
 

I appreciated the protestors who said “thank-you” to the police officers who were ensuring their safety. That irony shouldn’t be lost on anyone. But I have to wonder, if things got out of hand and the shooting started, would two policeman have been able to hold off eight men with semi-automatic assault rifles? 

Edited June 9, 2020 by K-9

[JESSEFEFFER]

On 6/4/2020 at 10:25 AM, whatdrought said:

What an idiotic example of our society silencing someone who doesn't buy the party line. 

 

As far as his comments go.. how exactly is kneeling during the anthem not a sign of disrespect for the flag? We stand in reverence (see, respect) and honor, so kneeling would be the opposite. What am I missing here?

Maybe it's been answered similarly but here's mine:

 

Kneeling is not inherently disrespectful.  Kids kneel at soccer games when one is hurt.  A man might kneel during a marriage proposal, a knighting ceremony or at the altar before their God Almighty.  It's likely Jesus had to kneel to wash the feet of his disciples.  So, it's not the kneeling that offends.  It's the act of protest.  He is making a point that his emotional state of being is not the same.

 

Question.  What would it say about someone if they are more upset about kneeling as an act of protest during the anthem versus kneeling on the neck of a person in police custody until he died?  The irony here is one for the history books.

 

Brees is entitled to his opinions and emotional response to the flag and anthem.  When we pledge allegiance to the flag we close with "....liberty and justice for all."  We can't expect that all our fellow Americans should feel the same about the symbols of our country if are denied liberty and justice in equal measure simply by their race, religeon, gender or sexual identity.

 

Brees equated the kneeling as disrespectful to the flag as do you.  I know many who feel the same.   One, who I consider to be a thoughtful person, gave Trump credit for "defending the flag."  Personally, I don't think anyone who got five draft deferments, one with a phoney medical diagnosis, should be the arbiter of anybody else"s patriotism. 

 

Why his comment was a mistake is the circumstances of his team. I'd bet he has been through the issue with his teammates and peers more than once.  He is more than aware of why it was done and how they feel.  He could have expressed his emotional connection to the flag without crapping on those who protest and why they do it.  He could have supported them and their cause as just apart from his own personal feelings.

Edited June 10, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER

[BillsFan17]

19 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

You mean like the folks who, just a few weeks ago, were literally protesting with assault rifles?

 

EDIT: can you imagine the collective pearl-clutching that would happen if thousands of black males protested outside a statehouse holding assault rifles?  The rhetoric that would come out of 1600 Penn??  I can’t believe some of this spin...

you mean people that went and had permits, coordinated with the police, and were well within their rights to have those guns. 

 

The term assault rifle shows you are trying to stir people up. Seeing as how there is no such weapon with that title. If you are referring to ArmaLite rifles, which again were legally allowed.

 

Moreover, remind me the crimes committed that day. Shootings? Had to be plenty since there was so many guns there. Any violent interactions between the protestors and cops? Anyone provoking or chanting to kill the police?

 

Those same people protesting were sick and tired of watching their businesses and livelihoods ruined. 

[Gugny]

16 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

you mean people that went and had permits, coordinated with the police, and were well within their rights to have those guns. 

 

The term assault rifle shows you are trying to stir people up. Seeing as how there is no such weapon with that title. If you are referring to ArmaLite rifles, which again were legally allowed.

 

Moreover, remind me the crimes committed that day. Shootings? Had to be plenty since there was so many guns there. Any violent interactions between the protestors and cops? Anyone provoking or chanting to kill the police?

 

Those same people protesting were sick and tired of watching their businesses and livelihoods ruined. 

 

It is not okay for a bunch of rednecks to show up to a "protest" with killing machines under the guise of "protecting business owners," because the police "weren't doing their jobs."

 

I don't care if they were holding Daisy bb guns.  It's not how our country works.  They were there to intimidate people and to show off their fancy weaponry, which they likely bought because they have innies for *****.

 

The fact that no one was hurt means absolutely nothing.  We do not live in the wild, wild west.  We do not live (legally) in a vigilante society.  And I'll lastly point out that those big, tough rednecks with their killing machines stopped exactly zero people from breaking the law.

 

Just a bunch of wusses with guns.  

 

That is not the America that I served for and it is not the Constitution that I served to protect.  

 

What it is .. is a bunch of rednecks flexing their muscles and doing exactly nothing to help exactly no one.

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Gugny

[GregPersons]

On 6/8/2020 at 4:33 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

...

I'm sure our officers here could point to cases where SWAT tactics and equipment were helpful and life-saving. 

 

But it sort of seems as though too many situations are handled in a "Big Boys want to play with their Big Toys" manner or according to the old saying "When your best tool is a Hammer, every problem looks like a Nail". 

 

I agree with everything here. My oldest brother has served in the military for 20 years now, as an officer. His family has moved at least a dozen times, I think. 

 

He helped train the police in Iraq in the early 00s. He said he never saw their trainees ever behave half as amateurishly as we were seeing all last week. He also came to the same conclusion. He and I agreed there's basically two main things happening here, two main problems.

 

1) They have way too many toys. 

 

2) They have no accountability.

 

So, that's why you're hearing "defund the police." That is addressing issue 1.  "Abolish" and "defund" communicate that, in terms of budget, in terms of our view of the scale of this role, that all needs to start from 0 and build up from there. That will be more effective than trying to build down from 300 billion or whatever. LA's police budget "cut" they offered to taxpayers this week is a joke.

 

If you ask me, police are quite lucky that the message right now isn't "imprison the police." Because if held accountable to the same laws without immunity — if people were encouraged to now come out with civil cases against police officers — *****, that might account for half of reparations right there in the settlements. 

 

Cops have been pulling a massive scheme for a long time now with the inflated budgets and never-ending increases, and the bluff is getting called. 

[BigBillsFan]

On 6/8/2020 at 11:59 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

First off, public figures get death threats regularly, sad to say.  Cody Ford tweeted about a death threat he received after the Houston game.  So I doubt it's a reason why Brees stepped back his comment; most wealthy people employ a Threat Assessment service to deal with that stuff.

 

Massive difference between “a” death threat, and a cacophony of howling people seeking to destroy you. Brees had that, Ford had “a” death threat.

 

Quote

But man....people on the other side (what other side is that? people who protest watching a man die with a cop kneeling on his beck?) PROVEN to be more violent, more threatening etc?

 

The side against rioting. The side against making this a political movement (which it is), the people who see that people aren’t protesting anything as the cops are in jail. Let’s be honest, the protests are for a change in POWER, that’s the side I’m not on.

 

Quote

What do you think the social media feed of the publically identified BLM protest leaders look like?  What do you think Kaepernick's social media looked like?  Do you think these guys don't get death threats, on a regular basis?

Of course they do, but the difference is the amount and intensity and the proof of insanity. A death threat with no other proof of violence isn’t much of a threat, but when you see people beaten and murdered then it’s a bit more serious.

 

Let’s go through your first link:
https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases/adl-report-white-supremacist-murders-more-than-doubled-in-2017
“White supremacists were directly responsible for 18 of the total 34 extremist-related murders in 2017”

 

Ok 18 deaths in the US in a year is individually tragic and collectively insignificant. Let’s be serious, 18 deaths is a terrible day in Chicago:
https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/6/8/21281998/chicago-violence-murder-history-homicide-police-crime
Over 3 days 25 deaths.

 

You want real statistics?
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/05/the_dishonest_politics_of_interracial_violence.html

Blacks are 1200% more likely to kill whites and that amounts to roughly 500 people a year. Proportionately that would be over 2,000 deaths a year if the populations were equal. Imagine if the stats were inverted? You'd see protests, and rightfully so.

 

Quote

"Hang Fauci.  Hang Gates"

 

Ok fine, but how many "Kill the white people" tweets, and videos could you find in under 10 minutes? A lot more then Hang Fauci and Gates.

 

See this is real vs pseudo-bravado. This Dallas gunman wanted to "Kill White People":
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-36749223/dallas-gunman-wanted-to-kill-white-people

 

And he did. Conversely a KKK leader just flowed into a crowd at a BLM protest recently:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/08/klan-leader-charged-harry-rogers-virginia

 

But before you think 1 = 1 no...

Fresno guy went out to kill white people

The snipers killing the cops were out to kill white people

The videos of these riots were out to "kill white people" since this started and beating them are numerous.

 

But I'll make this more easy for you. A black guy was punched by a white guy at a Trump rally. It went "viral". When blacks beat Trump supporters, ripped them out of cars, ripped hats off people and there are videos not a peep. Even more pathetic a black Trump supporter was sucker punched by a white guy and that didn't go "viral".

 

Quote

PROVEN.....I don't think that word "PROVEN" means what you think it means....

But if you supply the PROOF I give you my word I will walk this back.  [Only identifiable media who take accountability and will disclose how they vet their sources though.  I will not walk back for something that can not be verified to not be a Foreign Bot site.]

 

There is no Ferguson like event for Japanese, Chinese, Native American, Mexican, (name your race here) where they burn down neighborhoods after police brutality and all of them suffer from it. How much more proof do you need? Show me the Korean neighborhood burn-fest.

 

When the cops killed Justine Damond, Hugo Reyes, Nick Christie, Jeremy Mardis or Tony Timpa. Timpa died the same way George Floyd died and all on camera. No riots. 

 

The difference is no one else is asking the world to kneel before them in a power grab:

 

Should they protest? Yes, look at Miriam Carey who was savagely killed for no reason. They should protest and honor her, Floyd, and any other person who was abused and killed. Blacks are killed by cops but in 2020 if you think cops desire to kill black people out of a racist jihad it's silly with no evidence.

 

Cops are just overly violent, many times because they watch videos of them getting shot, and where a cop is 1850% more likely to be shot by a black guy than vice versa. That data comes from the FBI.

 

Read this and it's full of citations from vetted sources:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myths-of-black-lives-matter-1455235686

 

Kinda kills the narrative doesn't it? The WSJ post behind a paywall is pretty clear... this is a myth and power grab.

[BillsFan17]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

It is not okay for a bunch of rednecks to show up to a "protest" with killing machines hiding behind a disguise of "protecting business owners," because the police "weren't doing their jobs."

 

I don't care if they were holding Daisy bb guns.  It's not how our country works.  They were there to intimidate people and to show off their fancy weaponry, which they likely bought because they have innies for *****.

 

The fact that no one was hurt means absolutely nothing.  We do not live in the wild, wild west.  We do not live (legally) in a vigilate society.  And I'll lastly point out that those big, tough rednecks with their killing machines stopped exactly zero people from breaking the law.

 

Just a bunch of pus.sies with guns.  

 

That is not the America that I served for and it is not the Constitution that I served to protect.  

 

What it is .. is a bunch of rednecks flexing their muscles and doing exactly nothing to help exactly no one.

 

 

This whole post was simply a way to call people rednecks. There was zero substance, there was zero facts, just you going off about rednecks and "killing machines." You dismiss that no one was hurt, all those "killing machines" and NOT A SINGLE DEATH. If they truly are these brutal killing machines, how was it so many gathered and not a single killing? Moreover, what the ***** are you talking about this isnt the wild west? They obtained permits, they coordinated with law officials, they demonstrated peacefully, what are you talking about?

 

Was it the same rhetoric when the 2nd amendment March in Virginia when ALL ETHNICITIES WERE THERE? All carrying "killing machines," or are they only "killing machines" when white people protest an absolutely absurd Michigan government?

 

You want to be racist against white people, have a day, not going to make me flinch, but just expose your self.