Warcodered Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, whatdrought said: We stand for the anthem, as a society, to show respect to the flag. Why didn't he stand? I just wish we'd go back to saluting the flag like we used to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: We stand for the anthem, as a society, to show respect to the flag. Why didn't he stand? https://theundefeated.com/features/colin-kaepernick-protests-anthem-over-treatment-of-minorities/ Quote "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” Kaepernick told NFL Mediaafter Friday’s game. Is it inherently disrespectful to not feel represented in and proud of our nation at all times? Edited June 4, 2020 by Jauronimo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: We stand for the anthem, as a society, to show respect to the flag. Why didn't he stand? Except that we don't - look around the stands during any playing of the national anthem 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: The bolded is a false analogy. No merit. Which is it? Is kneeling inherently disrespectful or WAS kneeling disrespectful because of his intent according to you? Apparently all of his other ACTIONS do not matter either, like standing for God Bless America or his activism directly related to his stated cause. You disregard those ACTIONS and insist his intent was simply to disrespect the flag. He said he did not feel proud of the country given his views of widespread injustice and inequality. I find it troubling that so many see failure to comply with our out of place displays of nationalism at all times as an affront to all things American. No it's really not. It's an analogy of why you can't ignore actions because of stated intentions. I don't care about this actions in the scope of this conversation. Quote You disregard those ACTIONS and insist his intent was simply to disrespect the flag. This is a mischaracterization of what I've said. I did not say that was his intent or reason for kneeling. I am saying that he could not (due to his views and convictions) show respect for the flag. He did not respect the flag in that moment. Edited June 4, 2020 by whatdrought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's the flag themed plates and shoes that get me, personally. Because nothing says "I respect the flag" like squirting ketsup and mustard all over it. Or walking through dog poo. Just my personal pet peeve. You can pretty much buy any product with the flag on it, including toilet paper. But purists will argue these aren’t the flag, just images, so it’s not disrespectful. Desecration only applies to actual flags. Including those made in China and other foreign lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, K-9 said: Poor fashion sense? The socks are merely an extension of his protest. Pretty simple. Now I understand that we want to paint those socks as insulting the proverbial 99.9% of the great policemen and women who serve and protect their communities on a daily basis and I get why. And that’s not necessarily unfair given the lack of context. But he was referring to corrupt cops and if we’re being intellectually honest, we can admit that. And when I see a cop like Chauvin and three other cops murdering someone in cold blood, I think those socks are an insult to pigs more than anything else. He was referring to only corrupt cops? This is just rationalization. Just like when the protestors say “defund the police” they just mean the bad ones! Or when someone says immigrants are criminals, they just mean the bad ones. Be honest with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, whatdrought said: We stand for the anthem, as a society, to show respect to the flag. Why didn't he stand? Perhaps Eric Reid can explain it better: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, K-9 said: You can pretty much buy any product with the flag on it, including toilet paper. But purists will argue these aren’t the flag, just images, so it’s not disrespectful. Desecration only applies to actual flags. Including those made in China and other foreign lands. Those fake purists should go argue with the Flag Code. I'm a pure purist and I say "what does the Flag Code say?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, FireChans said: He was referring to only corrupt cops? This is just rationalization. Just like when the protestors say “defund the police” they just mean the bad ones! Or when someone says immigrants are criminals, they just mean the bad ones. Be honest with yourself. Be honest with myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: Be honest with myself? Yeah. No one wants to hold their own “side” to the standard they set for others. This is a fact of human nature. Inherently selfish mindsets. My martyr is misunderstood but your martyr preaches dangerous rhetoric! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It's the flag themed plates and shoes that get me, personally. Because nothing says "I respect the flag" like squirting ketsup and mustard all over it. Or walking through dog poo. Just my personal pet peeve. Exactly. Squirting condiments is the ultimate sign of disrespect. Thats why we do it to Pinto Ron. I bet he'd kneel for the anthem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: He was referring to only corrupt cops? This is just rationalization. Just like when the protestors say “defund the police” they just mean the bad ones! Or when someone says immigrants are criminals, they just mean the bad ones. Be honest with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: Perhaps Eric Reid can explain it better: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html You know what, I hadn't seen that perspective on why kneeling. I appreciate you sharing it and I stand corrected on my rant. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, whatdrought said: You know what, I hadn't seen that perspective on why kneeling. I appreciate you sharing it and I stand corrected on my rant. Honestly what I think happened was certain people seized on this protest as a way to fire up their base/supporters/viewers and didn't really give a ***** about how or why they were doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Yeah. No one wants to hold their own “side” to the standard they set for others. This is a fact of human nature. Inherently selfish mindsets. My martyr is misunderstood but your martyr preaches dangerous rhetoric! You need to justify your outrage by painting with large brushes. Simple as that. The fact you can’t accept a direct explanation from those who took part in a protest you found distasteful is proof of that. You NEED to project your own intentions rather than accept, from the person himself, the why of it all. But I understand. Evolved thinking often requires us to confront uncomfortable realities in ourselves. 10 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: Exactly. Squirting condiments is the ultimate sign of disrespect. Thats why we do it to Pinto Ron. I bet he'd kneel for the anthem. You’re killing it today! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Honestly what I think happened was certain people seized on this protest as a way to fire up their base/supporters/viewers and didn't really give a ***** about how or why they were doing it. The elephant in a room of mice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: Why ain't nobody talking bout how dese boys get in a huddle and take a knee when coach is talking to them? Disrespecting him! Should fire dem all where dese idjits would go back to mcdonalds. Dey need to respectful like my boy, jimmy bob who scratches his groin during the anthem while wearing American Flag underwear that he ***** himself in because he'd never disrespect the flag that he would have fought for if not for de painful bonespurs. Has anyone checked on this poster? I think they just had a stroke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Honestly what I think happened was certain people seized on this protest as a way to fire up their base/supporters/viewers and didn't really give a ***** about how or why they were doing it. No, I understand how that went down. My perspective was "standing for the anthem is universally seen as showing respect, ergo anything else is the antithesis." But that article shows how they were showing respect in a reserved way or in a different way. I still disagree with much of the details, but I can understand where they're coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, whatdrought said: No, I understand how that went down. My perspective was "standing for the anthem is universally seen as showing respect, ergo anything else is the antithesis." But that article shows how they were showing respect in a reserved way or in a different way. I still disagree with much of the details, but I can understand where they're coming from. Certain people seizing on the protest with a large public following did walk out of a game in a very public way after they witnessed kneeling. It can be both things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, K-9 said: Perhaps Eric Reid can explain it better: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html I don't recall the explanation, and I can't get behind the pay wall. Isn't it something to the effect of: Kap originally sat to protest, and then, after people complained it was disrespectful, he started kneeling instead to show that respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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