Dan Orlovsky just did AFCE QB rankings on ESPN. Had Allen at #3!

[Matt_In_NH]

Are we butt hurt?

[buffaloboyinATL]

14 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Do you think anyone would have a problem with his rankings if Allen was 1st and Tua was 2nd? Probably not. Nobody seems to have an issue that Tua is ranked ahead of Stidham. 

I am guessing Jets fans would have an issue with that...

[MJS]

17 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Do you think anyone would have a problem with his rankings if Allen was 1st and Tua was 2nd? Probably not. Nobody seems to have an issue that Tua is ranked ahead of Stidham. 

I would. I would rank Darnold above Tua.

 

Stidham is also an unknown. So all you really have to go off of them is their draft position and their college tape. Stidham was a 4th rounder. Tua was taken 5th overall.

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Clutchwarfare said:

Fair point on rushing TDs. Well said.

Still wouldn't take any other AFC-E QB over Josh tho.

Maybe I suffer from "Homer Syndrome", maybe not. We shall see.

It’s really close IMO.  I will say that those who have not seen many Bills games do miss out by not seeing him in action.  There’s no denying that he’s an exciting player who plays with a different style that is fun to watch.  I don’t know what it’s worth in terms of team success, but it’s certainly endearing to fans.  He’s kind of the opposite of Cousins and Prescott who put up numbers and win a lot of games but whose styles of play seem to lack a certain level of passion.

[C.Biscuit97]

41 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Seriously?  He had an NFL leading 5 game winning drives last year. (tied with Watson and Wilson) I am sure the detractors will claim that we shouldn't have been behind in the first place, but reality is we won several games because of him last season, not in spite of... I respectfully disagree with your take.

Mark Sanchez had 5 game winning drives in 2010.   This stat is so misleading without context.  That 14-7 Titans comeback was an awful offensive football game and their kicker missed 3 fgs I believe.  Mahomes lost a game where he led them to 51 points!  That goes down as a loss.  It’s dumb without context. 
 

for instance, Allen could have zero game winning drives this year and be a much, much, much better qb. 

[Paulus]

5 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Kind of. He tends to go back and forth on him.  I just can't believe he would rank a rookie over a QB who just took his team to the playoffs.  

Its all about clicks ($$$)... Regardless, crap like this tends to fire Allen up, so not a problem with me. 

[Bangarang]

13 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I am guessing Jets fans would have an issue with that...

Nobody cares about them though. 

[C.Biscuit97]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

I would. I would rank Darnold above Tua.

 

Stidham is also an unknown. So all you really have to go off of them is their draft position and their college tape. Stidham was a 4th rounder. Tua was taken 5th overall.

If healthy, and that’s the problem with Tua obviously, in the same draft, Tua goes first over any afc East QB.  

Just now, Paulus said:

Its all about clicks ($$$)... Regardless, crap like this tends to fire Allen up, so not a problem with me. 

You really think he wrote this for clicks?  Won’t it make more sense then to have Darnold ranked last to fire up the NYC market?

 

this is a crazy thought but maybe this is his honest opinion.  

[Bangarang]

10 minutes ago, MJS said:

I would. I would rank Darnold above Tua.

 

Stidham is also an unknown. So all you really have to go off of them is their draft position and their college tape. Stidham was a 4th rounder. Tua was taken 5th overall.

It doesn’t matter where you rank them. That’s not the point. 
 

[Paulus]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

If healthy, and that’s the problem with Tua obviously, in the same draft, Tua goes first over any afc East QB.  

You really think he wrote this for clicks?  Won’t it make more sense then to have Darnold ranked last to fire up the NYC market?

 

this is a crazy thought but maybe this is his honest opinion.  

I don't think many of these guys actually give their honest opinion. But, thats just cynical me. 

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

It doesn’t matter where you rank them. That’s not the point. 
 

Bills fans struggle with the concept that subjective player evaluations are not uniform. Which is hilarious, considering half of this fan base debated Flutie vs Johnson for 20 years.

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mark Sanchez had 5 game winning drives in 2010.   This stat is so misleading without context.  That 14-7 Titans comeback was an awful offensive football game and their kicker missed 3 fgs I believe.  Mahomes lost a game where he led them to 51 points!  That goes down as a loss.  It’s dumb without context. 
 

for instance, Allen could have zero game winning drives this year and be a much, much, much better qb. 

You know what’s even better than that many game winning drives? Building a big lead and watching your defense dominate so you don’t even have to worry about it. 
 

It’s cool that Allen has moxy and can play his best in the 4th quarter but I’d rather not need a 4th quarter comeback in a game where the Steeers are playing Duck ***** Hodges at QB, are missing JuJu and turn it over a bunch of times.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Bangarang

[billsbackto81]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

Dan who?

Dan Orlovsky. The 5 star recruit that committed to the powerhouse football program of UConn University. 

 

The guy who in 8 seasons started 12 games with a 58% comp rate, 3132 yds and a 15/13 TD- INT rate.

 

The guy actually ranks Carson Wentz above Aaron Rodgers? 

 

Yeah! That guy!

[H2o]

This Dan Orlovsky, the one that couldn't judge that he was a yard and a half out of bounds? He's the one ranking QB's? 

[buffaloboyinATL]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mark Sanchez had 5 game winning drives in 2010.   This stat is so misleading without context.  That 14-7 Titans comeback was an awful offensive football game and their kicker missed 3 fgs I believe.  Mahomes lost a game where he led them to 51 points!  That goes down as a loss.  It’s dumb without context. 
 

for instance, Allen could have zero game winning drives this year and be a much, much, much better qb. 

For the most part that is true, but just because Sanchez did it doesn't mean Allen isn't a good QB. I have context. I watched those games and frankly saw him make plays in some of those drives that very few QB's in the league could make. Does he make head scratchingly bad plays sometimes too? Sure, he is a second year QB.  BUT, using the context that I have, watching those comebacks, I believe he is an above average QB, with the potential to be elite.  Those comebacks were not a statistical anomaly, they were by and large the result of Allen making great plays and his teammates rallying behind him because of his ability.

[GreggTX]

Fitz had better passing stats than Allen did last year, but only by a whisker (based on passing efficiency). I'd replace Tua with Fitz, but until Allen actually demonstrates that he can be a good passer, I'm not drinking the kool-aid.

Edited May 27, 2020 by GreggTX

[Billl]

2 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Yeah whatever man.  I couldn't defend that chart either.

You love that chart, but nobody has said big stats in college mean NFL success.  They’re simply a prerequisite in nearly very case historically.  Having great eyesight doesn’t mean you can be an NFL QB, but being blind means you can’t.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

15 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

You know what’s even better than that many game winning drives? Building a big lead and watching your defense dominate so you don’t even have to worry about it. 
 

It’s cool that Allen has moxy and can play his best in the 4th quarter but I’d rather not need a 4th quarter comeback in a game where the Steeers are playing Duck ***** Hodges at QB, are missing JuJu and turn it over a bunch of times.

 

You mean like being up 16-0 at halftime in a playoff game only to watch the defense give up 22 points in the 2nd half?  That kind of dominate defense when it mattered most!  Don't get me wrong, Allen and the offense could have performed better in second half as well; but the defense seems to get a pass in the biggest game of the year and perhaps biggest game in the past 20 years.  But, I guess it's all Allen's fault to you!

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

Huh? 

 

How is Wyoming not relevant when an analyst is ranking Tua over Allen? 

 

What does the analyst have to go on? He has Tua's college performance only and draft position verses Allen's college production, draft status and first two years as a professional.

 

There was a book on Allen coming from college into the pros. The cons in his Scouting Report have not been totally unproven by his first two years. 

 

The thing is, some Bills fans can't even have a debate. They are so focused on how offended they are. 

 

Yes Allen was 6th in total TDs. He also was 30th in ypg, 32nd in completion percentage, 23rd in rating, 21st in passing TDs and his offense scored 19.6 ppg against a weak schedule, with a defense that allowed 16.2 ppg. 

 

Tua is shorter in stature, not an elite athlete, not elite arm strength, and Greg Cosell said he is a system QB, not transcendent. So not all analysts are Dan O. But I don't get the outrage over that ranking. Allen can silence all the critics this season.

 

 

 

YES I DID SAY THAT, IN REGARDS TO THE OP WHICH WAS WHINING ABOUT DAN O RANKING TUA HIGHER THAN ALLEN. 

 

Yeah an analyst watched one guy win a National Championship and watched the other guy throw for 16 TDs in his final season at Wyoming. 

 

Not everyone agrees with the Bills FO projection on Allen, and that's okay. 

 

 

 

I already answered that and you IGNORED IT.  Wyoming is IRRELEVANT now on how Allen projects to the NFL because he has ALREADY played 2 seasons.  UTTERLY STUPID to go back to Wyoming and use that as a comparison for Allen.  We already KNOW what he can DO in the REAL NFL.  There is no make believe here, he just put up the 6th most TDs in the entire NFL in his 2nd year despite only starting and finishing 14 games.  

 

I dont even know how this doesnt make sense to you.  

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

lmfao he has two years of professional tape to go on wtf is this

 

For reals man LMFAO

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

So Stidham is a better QB than Tua?

We dont know if Stidham is better then Tua

 

And frankly neither does Orlavsky

[Alphadawg7]

36 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Mark Sanchez had 5 game winning drives in 2010.   This stat is so misleading without context.  That 14-7 Titans comeback was an awful offensive football game and their kicker missed 3 fgs I believe.  Mahomes lost a game where he led them to 51 points!  That goes down as a loss.  It’s dumb without context. 
 

for instance, Allen could have zero game winning drives this year and be a much, much, much better qb. 

 

You are also ignoring that Allen scored the 6th most TDs last year despite starting and finishing just 14 games.  He was one of the highest rated passers in the entire 4th quarter.  Has the most game winning comebacks in the 4th in the NFL over his 2 years in the NFL, again after missing or not finishing 6 games.  And he put up 30 TDs last year despite playing with NINE new starters on offense.

 

Want another fun stat to show how bad his supporting cast was in the deep game struggles:

 

Allen throwing deep 20+ yards to Brown had a 109 QB rating!   

Allen throwing deep 20+ yards to everyone else had a 21 QB rating!  

 

Despite the short comings of his WR group, the NFL leading Bills in dropped passes, 9 new starters on offense, including rookies, an ever shifting OL with Ford moving around...the kid STILL put up 30 TDs in 14 and some change games, led us to 10 wins, tied for most comeback wins, and got us to the playoffs in just his 2nd season.  

 

Comparing him to Sanchez is utterly ridiculous.  

Edited May 27, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Billl]

25 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Dan Orlovsky. The 5 star recruit that committed to the powerhouse football program of UConn University. 

 

The guy who in 8 seasons started 12 games with a 58% comp rate, 3132 yds and a 15/13 TD- INT rate.

 

The guy actually ranks Carson Wentz above Aaron Rodgers? 

 

Yeah! That guy!

 

18 minutes ago, H2o said:

This Dan Orlovsky, the one that couldn't judge that he was a yard and a half out of bounds? He's the one ranking QB's? 

The guy probably doesn’t even post on message boards.  He can’t possibly know more than us about QB play.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

You love that chart, but nobody has said big stats in college mean NFL success.  They’re simply a prerequisite in nearly very case historically.  Having great eyesight doesn’t mean you can be an NFL QB, but being blind means you can’t.

 

LOL; people on this board pass around college stats like hippies pass joints at Haight Ashbury.   And what do you mean as a prerequisite?  By using the word "They're" you are implying Big Stats based on your previous sentence.  

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

You mean like being up 16-0 at halftime in a playoff game only to watch the defense give up 22 points in the 2nd half?  That kind of dominate defense when it mattered most! 

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Oy vei ?
 

1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Don't get me wrong, Allen and the offense could have performed better in second half as well; but the defense seems to get a pass in the biggest game of the year and perhaps biggest game in the past 20 years.  But, I guess it's all Allen's fault to you!

Yes, I’m saying it’s literally all Allen’s fault. Everything. 
 

The defense could have been better but it’s hard to stay mad at them when they are one of the leagues best and a big reason why we’ve even made the playoffs twice in the last 3 years. 
 

The offense hasn’t been nearly as good so they don’t get the benefit of doubt.

[GoBills808]

God forbid Bills fans prefer their QB to the Dolphins' small rookie w/a broken hip

[Billl]

Just now, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

LOL; people on this board pass around college stats like hippies pass joints at Haight Ashbury.   And what do you mean as a prerequisite?  By using the word "They're" you are implying Big Stats based on your previous sentence.  

Show me a franchise NFL QB with college stats worse than Allen’s and I'll show you 10 who dwarf them.  It’s hard to find good NFL QBs based only in college production, but it’s incredibly easy to predict QBs who won’t make it in the NFL based on college production.

Just now, GoBills808 said:

God forbid Bills fans prefer their QB to the Dolphins' small rookie w/a broken hip

Literally nobody is complaining that Bills fans prefer Josh to Tua, and literally nobody is confusing the two of them for Lou Gehrig and Cal Ripken.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

18 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Oy vei ?
 

Yes, I’m saying it’s literally all Allen’s fault. Everything. 
 

The defense could have been better but it’s hard to stay mad at them when they are one of the leagues best and a big reason why we’ve even made the playoffs twice in the last 3 years. 
 

The offense hasn’t been nearly as good so they don’t get the benefit of doubt.

 

If only Allen had made that tackle when it was 3rd and 18 and a stop probably would have sealed the game!  Damn he sucks!  

20 minutes ago, Billl said:

Show me a franchise NFL QB with college stats worse than Allen’s and I'll show you 10 who dwarf them.  It’s hard to find good NFL QBs based only in college production, but it’s incredibly easy to predict QBs who won’t make it in the NFL based on college production.

Literally nobody is complaining that Bills fans prefer Josh to Tua, and literally nobody is confusing the two of them for Lou Gehrig and Cal Ripken.

 

So tell me Chief, why did the Bills draft him then?  At #7 of all places, Why?    

[CountDorkula]

in terms of pure talent id rank them

 

Darnold

Tua/Allen

Patriots QB whomever it is.

 

 

Darnold is the most talented guy, but has been ruined by an inept Jets front office and coaching staff.

 

Tua has all the arm and athletic talent in the world and is a dual threat much like Allen. He is the real deal, IMO. Hate that he went to Miami. Can he remain healthy is the question. Will it transition to the pros.

 

 

 

[Bangarang]

10 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

If only Allen had made that tackle when it was 3rd and 18 and a stop probably would have sealed the game!  Damn he sucks!  

You’re trying too hard.

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

You’re trying too hard.

You're good w/Allen ranked 3rd QB in the division?

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

You're good w/Allen ranked 3rd QB in the division?

An opinion contrary to mine own? Dan Orlovsky must pay for this heresy!

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

It doesn’t matter where you rank them. That’s not the point. 
 

That's the whole premise of this thread...

[GoBills808]

Just now, FireChans said:

An opinion contrary to mine own? Dan Orlovsky must pay for this heresy!

You think so too?

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

You're good w/Allen ranked 3rd QB in the division?

He falls into 4th he'll get relegated!  Oh sorry @Blokestradamus get me confused on football leagues

[GoBills808]

Just now, Mike in Horseheads said:

He falls into 4th he'll get relegated!  Oh sorry @Blokestradamus get me confused on football leagues

I say Allen will blow all other AFC quarterbacks out of the water by pretty much whatever metric you want to use next season and I guarantee NOBODY chirping here will take that bet

[C.Biscuit97]

36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You are also ignoring that Allen scored the 6th most TDs last year despite starting and finishing just 14 games.  He was one of the highest rated passers in the entire 4th quarter.  Has the most game winning comebacks in the 4th in the NFL over his 2 years in the NFL, again after missing or not finishing 6 games.  And he put up 30 TDs last year despite playing with NINE new starters on offense.

 

Want another fun stat to show how bad his supporting cast was in the deep game struggles:

 

Allen throwing deep 20+ yards to Brown had a 109 QB rating!   

Allen throwing deep 20+ yards to everyone else had a 21 QB rating!  

 

Despite the short comings of his WR group, the NFL leading Bills in dropped passes, 9 new starters on offense, including rookies, an ever shifting OL with Ford moving around...the kid STILL put up 30 TDs in 14 and some change games, led us to 10 wins, tied for most comeback wins, and got us to the playoffs in just his 2nd season.  

 

Comparing him to Sanchez is utterly ridiculous.  

Never said he was Sanchez (though Mark averaged more years passing that year for perspective).  I definitely think he is better than Sanchez.  It just shows that the stat doesn’t mean you’re Joe Montana in a SB every game.

 

and again, he’s done good things but certain stats are misleading.  Like Combined tds for QBs.  Rushing tds is a very random number and goes down the longer a player plays.  Also, guys like Rodgers and Brees lose tds because they have short yardage backs and Hill.  Our offense scored 19 points a game.  
 

And what would Mitch’s numbers be if his wrs caught their 25 drops!!! Again, saying you prefer Tua over Allen isn’t really some hot take.  I think the vast majority of football people would take Tua if they knew he was healthy over most young QBs not named Mahomes.  He was a beast at Bama.

12 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

in terms of pure talent id rank them

 

Darnold

Tua/Allen

Patriots QB whomever it is.

 

 

Darnold is the most talented guy, but has been ruined by an inept Jets front office and coaching staff.

 

Tua has all the arm and athletic talent in the world and is a dual threat much like Allen. He is the real deal, IMO. Hate that he went to Miami. Can he remain healthy is the question. Will it transition to the pros.

 

 

 

You really think Darnold is more talented than Tua?   I disagree with that one. 

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You're good w/Allen ranked 3rd QB in the division?

The 3rd ranked qb in the NFC South might be Matt Ryan.  Look at the bright side. ?

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You think so too?

Yeah, any luck getting his address? 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Never said he was Sanchez (though Mark averaged more years passing that year for perspective).  I definitely think he is better than Sanchez.  It just shows that the stat doesn’t mean you’re Joe Montana in a SB every game.

 

and again, he’s done good things but certain stats are misleading.  Like Combined tds for QBs.  Rushing tds is a very random number and goes down the longer a player plays.  Also, guys like Rodgers and Brees lose tds because they have short yardage backs and Hill.  Our offense scored 19 points a game.  
 

And what would Mitch’s numbers be if his wrs caught their 25 drops!!! Again, saying you prefer Tua over Allen isn’t really some hot take.  I think the vast majority of football people would take Tua if they knew he was healthy over most young QBs not named Mahomes.  He was a beast at Bama.

 

I would bet less than 10 teams in the NFL would choose Tua over Allen right now today.  Allen showed great strides and people who know football are high on Allen.  There are some GM's that may not be sold, but I don't think its many and its probably none of the good ones.  

[C.Biscuit97]

48 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We dont know if Stidham is better then Tua

 

And frankly neither does Orlavsky

I would bet you a lot of money Tua will have a better nfl career than Stidham (assuming he can stay healthy).  Of course no one knows for sure but it’s not really a stretch to think that.

 

and it’s funny when Chris Simms or Jordan Palmer gives positive stuff about Allen, no posters try to put down their careers, ?

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I would bet less than 10 teams in the NFL would choose Tua over Allen right now today.  Allen showed great strides and people who know football are high on Allen.  There are some GM's that may not be sold, but I don't think its many and its probably none of the good ones.  

 

Probably fewer than 10.  Tuna couldn't stay healthy in college.  And the best ability is...